tyranitar isn't really used in cap, so i don't see why not (although you're really supposed to test these pokemon before you post them)
-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
CAP's New and Creative Moveset Thread
- Thread starter Fuzznip
- Start date
Hello, i think colossoil makes a great anti-lead!
COLOSSOIL
Moveset Name: Anti-Lead, COLOSSOILEAD
Move 1: fake out / u-turn
Move 2: earthquake
Move 3: crunch / pursuit
Move 4: rapid spin
Item: life orb
Ability: Rebound
Nature: adamant +att, -spa
EVs: 0/252/88/0/160/8
With rebound collossoil can avoid using a berry as an item to cure status, it also takes any prediction out the equation from using magic coat as well as an extra move slot.
Life orb ensures kills, leftovers would be doing nothing half the time.
fake out stops fast sashed taunters from getting stealth rock + 1 attack off, now they only get stealth rocks up, if they taunt they don't get anything up.
earthquake and crunch are powerful stab moves, pursuit is optional and still gets stab so it will leave a dent even if they stay in. Ground + Dark stab is amazing to say the least, it hits every type for neutral without factoring abilitys. Scyther seems to be the only thing that resists it based on typing alone.
rapin spin screws over the opponets stratergy, without any entry hazards up their team just won't function. If they Switch in a ghost after their lead is defeated to stop the rapid spin they will eat a stab SE crunch.
~~~
Other options:
taunts not used because of the lack of any entry hazard moves. Same with encore, their lead switching out is not what collosoil wants, although encore + pursuit is just nasty combo.
U-turn is viable over fake out, rapid spin can break sashes anyway. U-turns use is obvouis, to hit hard with base 122 attack and bring in a counter.
you can use leftovers if you want to spam rapid spin all day, i wouldn't though.
~~~
252 attack evs is a must, defensively you can do whatever you feel like, i would recommend staying away from hp investment because of life orb recoil.
~~~
Faster taunt leads - fake out breaks sash. They SR, collosoil will kill them.
Slow leads - Collosiol will outspeed and overpower them with her life orb and can rapin spin away the rocks later.
Anti leads - With the stab, speed, bulk and ability colossiol has a favourable match-up.
gimmicks - fake out screws over a lot of annoying gimmicks, 95 base speed should out run most things too.
Moveset Name: Anti-Lead, COLOSSOILEAD
Move 1: fake out / u-turn
Move 2: earthquake
Move 3: crunch / pursuit
Move 4: rapid spin
Item: life orb
Ability: Rebound
Nature: adamant +att, -spa
EVs: 0/252/88/0/160/8
With rebound collossoil can avoid using a berry as an item to cure status, it also takes any prediction out the equation from using magic coat as well as an extra move slot.
Life orb ensures kills, leftovers would be doing nothing half the time.
fake out stops fast sashed taunters from getting stealth rock + 1 attack off, now they only get stealth rocks up, if they taunt they don't get anything up.
earthquake and crunch are powerful stab moves, pursuit is optional and still gets stab so it will leave a dent even if they stay in. Ground + Dark stab is amazing to say the least, it hits every type for neutral without factoring abilitys. Scyther seems to be the only thing that resists it based on typing alone.
rapin spin screws over the opponets stratergy, without any entry hazards up their team just won't function. If they Switch in a ghost after their lead is defeated to stop the rapid spin they will eat a stab SE crunch.
~~~
Other options:
taunts not used because of the lack of any entry hazard moves. Same with encore, their lead switching out is not what collosoil wants, although encore + pursuit is just nasty combo.
U-turn is viable over fake out, rapid spin can break sashes anyway. U-turns use is obvouis, to hit hard with base 122 attack and bring in a counter.
you can use leftovers if you want to spam rapid spin all day, i wouldn't though.
~~~
252 attack evs is a must, defensively you can do whatever you feel like, i would recommend staying away from hp investment because of life orb recoil.
~~~
Faster taunt leads - fake out breaks sash. They SR, collosoil will kill them.
Slow leads - Collosiol will outspeed and overpower them with her life orb and can rapin spin away the rocks later.
Anti leads - With the stab, speed, bulk and ability colossiol has a favourable match-up.
gimmicks - fake out screws over a lot of annoying gimmicks, 95 base speed should out run most things too.
Rebound only works on the switch-in, just so you know. Also, I have tested this, and from my experience, its not that effective. Syclant kills you, because as far as I remember, you don't KO with Fake Out + Crunch (and it can use Ice Shard first turn anyway...), Pyroak sleeps you, sets up SR, and then Wood Hammers you till you die (one time, iirc), Metagross I'm pretty sure defeats you with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch, Swampert defeats you with two Surfs, and iirc, you don't KO Stratagem with Fake Out + Crunch, so they can set up SR and Energy Ball / Earth Power/ Paleo Wave you before they die. Also, why would you Taunt Colossoil? I mean, he doesn't have any set-up moves, really...
NOTE: I was testing this with a set of 252 atk/ 252 speed
NOTE: I was testing this with a set of 252 atk/ 252 speed
seems i messed up with the abilitly, i still think this can work with a different moveset and role, i'll test it and come back.
as for metagross, earthquake flat out 1 hits it without fake out.
as for metagross, earthquake flat out 1 hits it without fake out.
actually there's a mistake in the implementation that allows rebound to work one turn after being sent out, if used as a lead. it's v. cool. also metagross is taking 98-115 % from earthquake and even swampert gets hit for around 45 %.
i don't really see the need for fake out though. imo selfdestruct instead.
OK, time to revive this thread with a lot more movesets!
First, my favorite Colossoil ever -
THE SINGING NARWHAL
Move 1: Mean Look
Move 2: Perish Song
Move 3: Moonlight
Move 4: Taunt
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Rebound
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def
The concept behind this set is very old - Perish Trapping. Just Mean Look, Perish Song, then Moonlight until the opponent dies. If you're facing Skarmory, use Taunt so it can't Whirlwind you away. This Pokemon is amazing at removing unwanted Skarmorys, Revanankhs, and Defensive Arghonauts, as you are not 2HKOed by any of their attacks. It is useful to know, however, that Mean Looking on the switch is the best way to go.
Second, my second favorite Colossoil ever -
THE SCREECHING NARWHAL
Move 1: Screech
Move 2: Sucker Punch/Crunch/Pursuit
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Selfdestruct
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Guts
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Attack/252 Speed.
This set is to be played very simply. Switch into something you can force out. Screech the switch-in. Kill the switch-in. Repeat. Seriously, this set KOs any Pokemon at -2. Sucker Punch kills frail attackers, Earthquake kills most walls, and Selfdestruct kills Skarmory. This set tends to lure in Skarmories, so be sure to pair it with something that can take advantage of a lack of Skarmory, like Tyranitar.
First, my favorite Colossoil ever -
Move 1: Mean Look
Move 2: Perish Song
Move 3: Moonlight
Move 4: Taunt
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Rebound
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def
The concept behind this set is very old - Perish Trapping. Just Mean Look, Perish Song, then Moonlight until the opponent dies. If you're facing Skarmory, use Taunt so it can't Whirlwind you away. This Pokemon is amazing at removing unwanted Skarmorys, Revanankhs, and Defensive Arghonauts, as you are not 2HKOed by any of their attacks. It is useful to know, however, that Mean Looking on the switch is the best way to go.
Second, my second favorite Colossoil ever -
Move 1: Screech
Move 2: Sucker Punch/Crunch/Pursuit
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Selfdestruct
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Guts
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Attack/252 Speed.
This set is to be played very simply. Switch into something you can force out. Screech the switch-in. Kill the switch-in. Repeat. Seriously, this set KOs any Pokemon at -2. Sucker Punch kills frail attackers, Earthquake kills most walls, and Selfdestruct kills Skarmory. This set tends to lure in Skarmories, so be sure to pair it with something that can take advantage of a lack of Skarmory, like Tyranitar.
THE SINGING NARWHAL
Move 1: Mean Look
Move 2: Perish Song
Move 3: Moonlight
Move 4: Taunt
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Rebound
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def
man i'm just thinking about how this destroys my old stall team and about what an asshole you are for using something like this 9.9
you might want to run 252 def / 252 sdef though because it lets you beat some stuff like calm mind suicune:
Bold Leftovers Suicune Surf
vs. 0/0 Colossoil : 60.4% - 71.3%
vs. 0/252 Colossoil : 44.7% - 53.1%
turns a 2hko into a not 2hko! i have a question though
why not use perish song first, and then mean look? most things that have switched into colossoil aren't going to switch out after just one turn of perish song, and this way reduces the count by one.
Well, if you Mean Look, you will always beat pHazers, while if you Perish Song, they will phaze you, as you must use Mean Look if you don't want them to run away. It also makes this set work on people who have faced it before, as, if you Perish Song, they will run away.
Well, the CAP stall I've faced usually are more physical (think Arghonaut and Revanankh), so I like the current EV spread, although if CM Cune becomes more widespread, I probably will change the spread.
And, since I don't wanna double post... two more sets! These sets are wall breakers, and they focus on taking a CAP's weaker offensive stat, and boosting it. So, without further ado -
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Aerial Ace / Zen Headbutt
Move 3: Flamethrower/Earthquake
Move 4: Head Smash/Explosion
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
So, this set, as mentioned above, is a wall breaker. This set works by bluffing an ordinary Stratagem set, and then SDing up on a predicted switch. The switch-in will almost always be Blissey, or Revanankh. After a SD, you KO Revanankh with Aerial Ace, assuming SR is up, and you KO blissey with Head Smash, although you will die. You KO Skarmory with Flamethrower, and, if you decide to run Explosion, you kill Arghonaut without a boost. If played correctly against a stall team, at least one of their walls should die. If you really want to run Levitate, Zen Headbutt also works, although you need a layer of Spikes to guarantee the kill on Rev, iirc.
My second set is:
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Outrage/Dragon Claw
Move 3: Volt Tackle
Move 4: Slack Off
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Shield Dust
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
This set plays very similarly to the one above. Bluff a normal set, DD up on the switch, and hope to sweep.
DDClohm is always underwhelming to fight, but that's because Cressy is awesome. ^_^
Nice SD Stratagem. *rips* *tests*
Nice SD Stratagem. *rips* *tests*
This pokemon is no joke so don't take it as one. I've used it and it works great.
Scizor
item: metronome
ability: technician
nature: adamant
swords dance
fury cutter
bullet punch/night slash
double hit
Ev's: 0/252/4/0/0/252
Scizor
item: metronome
ability: technician
nature: adamant
swords dance
fury cutter
bullet punch/night slash
double hit
Ev's: 0/252/4/0/0/252
This is a sweeper for those who like the bug type. The STAB move, Fury Cutter, doesn't seem like much of a STAB move, but on the second turn of using it, the power nearly triples as it does for each turn, without the aid of swords dance. Double Hit is a good move because it counts as 2 separate attacks in one turn, for either about 120 or 140 power each turn. either way, its a good move to have. Now for bullet punch and night slash. If you want to have a fast hit, go for bullet punch (this is where I would go). For a bit of extra power, go for night slash, but there may be no difference, so I'd go with bullet punch if it weren't for ghost type coverage (only if needed).
Walled by steels.
Also, after one Fury Cutter, it has a base power of...20. 20. 25 with Technician. 37.5 with STAB.
You will not kill Celebi with that.
Why would I use Fury Cutter over Bug Bite?
Why would I use a normal move at all, when Scizor has so many better options?
Why am I using metronome at all?
Also, after one Fury Cutter, it has a base power of...20. 20. 25 with Technician. 37.5 with STAB.
You will not kill Celebi with that.
Why would I use Fury Cutter over Bug Bite?
Why would I use a normal move at all, when Scizor has so many better options?
Why am I using metronome at all?
i have a pretty open mind so let's do the math (factoring in base damage, technician and metronome):
turn 1: 10 * 1.5 * 1.0 = 15.
turn 2: 20 * 1.5 * 1.1 = 33.
turn 3: 40 * 1.5 * 1.2 = 72.
turn 4: 80 * 1.0 * 1.3 = 104.
turn 5: 160 * 1.0 * 1.4 = 224.
total: 448.
after three uses, it's still not as powerful as an unboosted x-scissor. after four uses, it's still weaker than a life orb technician bug bite.
since we're not switching moves at all here (or else the metronome is reset), let's compare this to just using a choice band bug bite five times.
60 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 135.
135 * 5 = 675.
you do loads more damage over five turns by just spamming choice band bug bite than with your metronome fury cutter. it's also obviously more reliable - you're basically never, ever, ever going to have scizor in for more than five turns at a time.
"walled by steels" is the least of the problems with this set.
Due to a lack of a better place to ask it, I guess here works.
Is Claydol a viable spinner in CAP? It takes nothing from spikes or toxic spikes, resists stealth rock, and its stabs hit the two main spin blockers (as well as gengar if it matters) for super effective damage.
Standard Utility Claydol (200 SpA) vs Standard (304/196) Kitsunoh - 66.7%-77.8%
Max SpA Claydol (262) vs Standard Kitsunoh - 86.5%-101.6% - Almost a guaranteed ohko after one layer of spikes (although admittedly Max SpA claydol loses a large amount of bulk)
Utility Claydol (200) vs Max/Min Rev (392 Hp, 276 SpD) - 36.9%-43.3%
Utility Claydol vs Wallrev (330 SpD) - 31.1%-36.4%
Utility Claydol vs Bulk Up Rev (372 SpD) - 27.8%-32.6%
Max SpA Claydol (262) vs 276 Rev - 47.9%-56.3%
262 Claydol vs 330 Rev - 40.3%-47.4%
262 Claydol vs 372 Rev - 35.9%-42.3%
Claydol also outspeeds Revenankh, so unless Rev gets very lucky with shed skins and a lack of crits and SpD drops along with low damage rolls, Claydol can at least accomplish not being set-up bait for bulk up Rev. Onto the defensive calcs.
Standard Kitsunoh (301 Attack) Shadowstrike vs Utility Claydol (324 HP, 310 Def) - 52.7%-62.3%
301 Kitsunoh vs 252/4 (Max SpA) Claydol (247 Def) - 60%-77.7%
Bulk Up Rev (256) Shadow Sneak vs 310 Claydol - 23.4%-27.4%
+1 - 34.3%-40.4%
+2 - 45.3%-53%
WallRev Shadow Claw - 39.8%-46.9%
256 Shadow Sneak vs 247 Claydol - 29%-33.9%
+1 - 42%-50.3%
+2 - 56.5%-66.4%
Wallrev Shadow Claw - 49.6%-58.3%
What makes Claydol not outclassed: Generally, Fidgit or Soil do spinning better, as they either hit harder (Soil) or have much better support options (Fidgit), and they're both bulkier. However, Claydol has a few points in its favor that might make it viable.
Oh yeah, this is untested, all theorymon.
Is Claydol a viable spinner in CAP? It takes nothing from spikes or toxic spikes, resists stealth rock, and its stabs hit the two main spin blockers (as well as gengar if it matters) for super effective damage.
Standard Utility Claydol (200 SpA) vs Standard (304/196) Kitsunoh - 66.7%-77.8%
Max SpA Claydol (262) vs Standard Kitsunoh - 86.5%-101.6% - Almost a guaranteed ohko after one layer of spikes (although admittedly Max SpA claydol loses a large amount of bulk)
Utility Claydol (200) vs Max/Min Rev (392 Hp, 276 SpD) - 36.9%-43.3%
Utility Claydol vs Wallrev (330 SpD) - 31.1%-36.4%
Utility Claydol vs Bulk Up Rev (372 SpD) - 27.8%-32.6%
Max SpA Claydol (262) vs 276 Rev - 47.9%-56.3%
262 Claydol vs 330 Rev - 40.3%-47.4%
262 Claydol vs 372 Rev - 35.9%-42.3%
Claydol also outspeeds Revenankh, so unless Rev gets very lucky with shed skins and a lack of crits and SpD drops along with low damage rolls, Claydol can at least accomplish not being set-up bait for bulk up Rev. Onto the defensive calcs.
Standard Kitsunoh (301 Attack) Shadowstrike vs Utility Claydol (324 HP, 310 Def) - 52.7%-62.3%
301 Kitsunoh vs 252/4 (Max SpA) Claydol (247 Def) - 60%-77.7%
Bulk Up Rev (256) Shadow Sneak vs 310 Claydol - 23.4%-27.4%
+1 - 34.3%-40.4%
+2 - 45.3%-53%
WallRev Shadow Claw - 39.8%-46.9%
256 Shadow Sneak vs 247 Claydol - 29%-33.9%
+1 - 42%-50.3%
+2 - 56.5%-66.4%
Wallrev Shadow Claw - 49.6%-58.3%
What makes Claydol not outclassed: Generally, Fidgit or Soil do spinning better, as they either hit harder (Soil) or have much better support options (Fidgit), and they're both bulkier. However, Claydol has a few points in its favor that might make it viable.
- Claydol isn't damaged by spikes, which is probably the biggest reason to use it. If it switches in on an EQ then rocks + lefties set it back to neutral. Spikes can wear down Fidgit if it lacks wish, which severely limits its support options. Similarly, Soil still takes damage from spikes and toxic spikes (though Guts could turn toxic spikes into an advantage).
- Claydol can use Stealth Rock, which is a big advantage over Colossoil for obvious reasons.
- It doesn't care about burns that Rebound Soil could potentially recieve after it's switched in.
Oh yeah, this is untested, all theorymon.
imo claydol is viable in standard, but that's beside the point. i don't think i would ever use him in cap when you have fidgit and colossoil to choose from, and i really hate that he's total set-up bait for gyarados and pyroak.
Voodoom
name: SubPass
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Aura Sphere
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Life Orb
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
The idea here is to pair up with togekiss to pass subs and recieve nasty plots (how fitting). Substitue is a safe move considering it's speed and Voodoom can create many switches with volt absorb. Baton Passing a sub really helps out togekiss get a nasty plot up, you can keep passing until you wear down it's counters between the two of them. Wish support from togekiss is nice. A lum berry on togkiss can be used over leftovers as people will often try to paralyze/toxic togekiss to stop the baton pass. I'm not going to post a togekiss set because there are so many viable options to use and i'm not really sure what is the best yet. As for running only two attacks on voodoom, it's fine. One of the reasons for the sub is instead of guessing if they will stay in or switch, you sub and then choose the move they don't resist. He really doesn't have anything better to do anyway with his limited attacking movepool anyway (sub/split with 2 attacks has been the standout set so far).
Watch out for stealth rocks though, it breaks togekiss' sub :(
name: SubPass
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Aura Sphere
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Life Orb
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
The idea here is to pair up with togekiss to pass subs and recieve nasty plots (how fitting). Substitue is a safe move considering it's speed and Voodoom can create many switches with volt absorb. Baton Passing a sub really helps out togekiss get a nasty plot up, you can keep passing until you wear down it's counters between the two of them. Wish support from togekiss is nice. A lum berry on togkiss can be used over leftovers as people will often try to paralyze/toxic togekiss to stop the baton pass. I'm not going to post a togekiss set because there are so many viable options to use and i'm not really sure what is the best yet. As for running only two attacks on voodoom, it's fine. One of the reasons for the sub is instead of guessing if they will stay in or switch, you sub and then choose the move they don't resist. He really doesn't have anything better to do anyway with his limited attacking movepool anyway (sub/split with 2 attacks has been the standout set so far).
Watch out for stealth rocks though, it breaks togekiss' sub :(
I tested recently a Cyclohm Anti-Lead :
Cyclohm @Life Orb (Shield Dust)
Timid (+ Vit ; -Atk) 8 EV PV / 252EV SpcAtk / 232EV Spd / 16EV SpcDef
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Hydropump
-Vacuum Wave
8 EV in PV achieve a Life Orb Number. Max SpcAtk is obvious, and the speed lets him outspeed Heatran. The rest is put in SpcDef to help to take weak Earth Power / Ice Beam.
-Metagross : 2KOed by Thunderbolt and can take EQ + BP.
-Scyclant : RUN AWAY.
-Pyroak : Often 2KO by Hydropump + Draco Meteor. You can also anticipate Sleep Powder and do massive damages with DM.
-Strategem : 2KOed by TBolt + Vacuum Wave
-Fidgit : Can be OHKOed by Hydropump. At least, you can kill him with Vacuum Wave. You take easily Earth Power.
-Azelf : Even the Dual Screen suffers from Draco Meteor (he takes 50% after Light Screen). The others are easily dealed with DM + Vacuum Wave.
-Togekiss : Thunderbolt + Vacuum Wave and say goodbye.
-Aerodactyl : Laugh and kill him with T-Bolt + Vacuum Wave.
-Tyranitar : I don't know what sorts of TTar are played in lead in CAP, but the Scarf is 2KO by Hydropump+Vacuum Wave, but the "defensive lead" survives.
-Gliscor : OHKOed by Hydropump.
-Kitsunoh : 2KOed by T-Bolt, but he can do what he wants.
-Infernape : 2KOed by T-Bolt + Vacuum Wave.
-Machamp : Laugh, and kill him with 2 T-Bolts. With Shield Dust, Cyclohm ignores the confusion.
-Smeargle : He can make you sleep, but with Vacuum Wave, you put a serious dent in this coward.
-Swampert : Suffers from Hydropump + Draco Meteor.
After the first turn, he stays a serious special threat, with his powerful STABS Draco Meteor and T-Bolt, and a nice revenge-killer.
Cyclohm @Life Orb (Shield Dust)
Timid (+ Vit ; -Atk) 8 EV PV / 252EV SpcAtk / 232EV Spd / 16EV SpcDef
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Hydropump
-Vacuum Wave
8 EV in PV achieve a Life Orb Number. Max SpcAtk is obvious, and the speed lets him outspeed Heatran. The rest is put in SpcDef to help to take weak Earth Power / Ice Beam.
-Metagross : 2KOed by Thunderbolt and can take EQ + BP.
-Scyclant : RUN AWAY.
-Pyroak : Often 2KO by Hydropump + Draco Meteor. You can also anticipate Sleep Powder and do massive damages with DM.
-Strategem : 2KOed by TBolt + Vacuum Wave
-Fidgit : Can be OHKOed by Hydropump. At least, you can kill him with Vacuum Wave. You take easily Earth Power.
-Azelf : Even the Dual Screen suffers from Draco Meteor (he takes 50% after Light Screen). The others are easily dealed with DM + Vacuum Wave.
-Togekiss : Thunderbolt + Vacuum Wave and say goodbye.
-Aerodactyl : Laugh and kill him with T-Bolt + Vacuum Wave.
-Tyranitar : I don't know what sorts of TTar are played in lead in CAP, but the Scarf is 2KO by Hydropump+Vacuum Wave, but the "defensive lead" survives.
-Gliscor : OHKOed by Hydropump.
-Kitsunoh : 2KOed by T-Bolt, but he can do what he wants.
-Infernape : 2KOed by T-Bolt + Vacuum Wave.
-Machamp : Laugh, and kill him with 2 T-Bolts. With Shield Dust, Cyclohm ignores the confusion.
-Smeargle : He can make you sleep, but with Vacuum Wave, you put a serious dent in this coward.
-Swampert : Suffers from Hydropump + Draco Meteor.
After the first turn, he stays a serious special threat, with his powerful STABS Draco Meteor and T-Bolt, and a nice revenge-killer.
Move 1: Hammer Arm
Move 2: Shadow Sneak
Move 3: Rest
Move 4: Bulk Up
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 Spd
This set basically, as can be seen, is a more physically oriented version of Revanankh. It is basically the best spinblocker in CAP, since it laughs at RS Soil, and RS Starmie isn't that common.
Back to the creative moveset,
Kitsunoh@Toxic Orb
Ability: Frisk
Nature: Jolly
EV spread: 252HP/252Spd/4SDef
Movset
-Super Fang
-Will-o-Wisp
-Magic Coat
-Trick
I use it as a lead and use Magic Coat to block back any Taunt, SR and whatnot. Trick also works nicely here to steal any useful items from the opponent and poison them. I have Frisk so I can see the item and judge its effectiveness. Super Fang cuts HP to half and makes poison's job a bit easier. since it's Steel, poison has no effect and they have no idea what's in store. WoW works good for any strong physical threat. Runs circles around most set-up leads.
Kitsunoh@Toxic Orb
Ability: Frisk
Nature: Jolly
EV spread: 252HP/252Spd/4SDef
Movset
-Super Fang
-Will-o-Wisp
-Magic Coat
-Trick
I use it as a lead and use Magic Coat to block back any Taunt, SR and whatnot. Trick also works nicely here to steal any useful items from the opponent and poison them. I have Frisk so I can see the item and judge its effectiveness. Super Fang cuts HP to half and makes poison's job a bit easier. since it's Steel, poison has no effect and they have no idea what's in store. WoW works good for any strong physical threat. Runs circles around most set-up leads.
There's no reason this thread shouldn't be revived, save it needs a little cleanup on the back end. Yeah it's Necromancy, but it highlights some of the assumptions in the past, heh. It's a good window back into 4th Gen.
I guess I'll start. Since everybody nowadays is using Necturna, I've found an unlikely counter in
Drapion @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
- Toxic Spikes
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
From the depths of RU, it makes itself a great niche in the CAP metagame as a set-up scout against Necturna. With both its STAB moves rendered nigh-useless, Necturna is always forced to either use its sketched move or flee when this switches in. It also absorbs Necturna's Toxic Spikes and substitutes its own, and, to add even more insult to injury, can deal a fair amount of damage to Necturna on the switch with Pursuit. As a reliable Toxic Spiker and counter, it will do well as long as Necturna remains in use.
Drapion @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
- Toxic Spikes
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
From the depths of RU, it makes itself a great niche in the CAP metagame as a set-up scout against Necturna. With both its STAB moves rendered nigh-useless, Necturna is always forced to either use its sketched move or flee when this switches in. It also absorbs Necturna's Toxic Spikes and substitutes its own, and, to add even more insult to injury, can deal a fair amount of damage to Necturna on the switch with Pursuit. As a reliable Toxic Spiker and counter, it will do well as long as Necturna remains in use.
I guess I'll start. Since everybody nowadays is using Necturna, I've found an unlikely counter in
Drapion @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
- Toxic Spikes
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
From the depths of RU, it makes itself a great niche in the CAP metagame as a set-up scout against Necturna. With both its STAB moves rendered nigh-useless, Necturna is always forced to either use its sketched move or flee when this switches in. It also absorbs Necturna's Toxic Spikes and substitutes its own, and, to add even more insult to injury, can deal a fair amount of damage to Necturna on the switch with Pursuit. As a reliable Toxic Spiker and counter, it will do well as long as Necturna remains in use.
Could you explain the EVs a little? Most Necturna are physical attackers, whereas this Drapion maxes Special Defense. I get it has Dark STAB for Necturna, but why does it have Earthquake? Base 90 Atk uninvested is not very powerful. Not to mention if Necturna burns you with Sacred Fire, Drapion is almost useless.
The EVs and Earthquake are just to cover the bases. Although Necturna is very common nowadays, I won't always be facing it (or I'll be facing a rare special Necturna), and Drapion needs to augment its low special defense to survive as a reliable Toxic Spiker. Earthquake deals somewhat with Steel and Poison pokemon that switch in to stop the Toxic Spikes.
You could easily add more attack and/or defense (or speed, but the 144 EVs needed to always outrun neutral Necturna are pretty straining defensively) to the EV spread to deal with Necturna or be a greater physical threat, but I personally went for more general survivability. If this is going to be the only Toxic Spikes user on my team, I need it to last against other things than just Necturna.
As for Sacred Fire, it hasn't really been a problem, as the primary point of the set is laying hazards; it can still get its 2 layers in. Admittedly, this set does do better against more defensive Necturna sets.
I've found AcroBat Gliscor is a pretty fun counter to Necturna: It can OHKO both Necturna (after Flying Gem or SD) and its usual partner Heatran.
This is just standard AcroBat:
Gliscor @ Flying Gem
Trait: Sand Veil
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Roost
(I might be biased; as I just really like Flying attacks, as anyone who's played against my double-Hurricane team might guess.)
This is just standard AcroBat:
Gliscor @ Flying Gem
Trait: Sand Veil
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Roost
(I might be biased; as I just really like Flying attacks, as anyone who's played against my double-Hurricane team might guess.)