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Chain Chomp

Guys, do you really think Surgo would post something that was completely a "theory" moveset? It's evident in the first post (if you actually care to read it) that the theory area was Surgo and Mekkah discussing things, then running the damage calcs to check things. He's mentioned multiple times now that he, and more importantly other people have tested this out, and it seems to work.

Saying something can be hard to pull off is no excuse, because that can apply to most movesets. This set is actually easier to pull off IMO. You're going to find out your opponents Physical Wall either by sending out Garchomp, or using another physical attacker beforehand to be able to predict this surprise attack.

It's viable that if you mispredict and Swords Dance when your opponents main counter is something like Bronzong, then you're likely to get hit by Hypnosis when they switch on the Swords Dance turn. But if you knew this, you'd be smashing them with Fire Blast, forcing the switch at least in which time you can also Swords Dance.

A lot of Prediction may be needed on occasion, but this set is likely to screw over most newcomers who instantly switch to their most immediate counter, and even the more experienced players. This is the kind of moveset that will give you an instant edge in a battle. Everyone will need to be careful of this, and expect the unexpected.
 
Yeah Surgo, Blissey is 2HKOed, but if it gets off an Ice Beam you lose a ton of health, (just now my scarfchamp took 75% from Ice Beam on shoddy) and you have the freeze chance, which is 20% IIRC on CM Bliss with Serence Grace.
 
ZinkOxide said:
Yeah Surgo, Blissey is 2HKOed, but if it gets off an Ice Beam you lose a ton of health, (just now my scarfchamp took 75% from Ice Beam on shoddy) and you have the freeze chance, which is 20% IIRC on CM Bliss with Serence Grace.
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It's OHKOed when you Swords Dance on the switch to Blissey...Blissey hardly says "hi". And if you Draco Meteor or something on the switch, it's not like it's hard to find a good switch-in for Blissey. Think about the situation more before posting please.
 
Please can you tell my HOW Blissey will use ice beam. YOU are not going to switch in on blissey, IT is going to switch in on you after realizing you have Draco Meteor. At this point you can SD and EQ, or just EQ and EQ again. Please think before posting.
 
Sorry to ask again, but in case you guys didn't see my question, do you think +Spatk natures (Rash, Mild) could be a viable option here?
 
DEL337ED said:
Just wondering - would a +Spatk nature (say, Rash) be a viable option for this set?
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Though this might ensure 2hko without SR on on stuff, you'd lose your ability to OHKO Blissey after a swords dance. The choice in completely yours.

EDIT: And the point to +spd being?
 
As far as +spatk goes...it's workable, but we didn't give it so much thought because of the massive attack drop. You give up a lot of your ability to be a physical threat too if you go with a nature that doesn't boost your attack.

As far as speed boosting, I don't think I would. I don't see any additional benefit in going +speed in this instance, and it comes with the major drawback of not being able to hit nearly as hard on the physical side.
 
Kumar said:
Though this might ensure 2hko without SR on on stuff, you'd lose your ability to OHKO Blissey after a swords dance. The choice in completely yours.

EDIT: And the point to +spd being?
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Well the standard Chomp set has Jolly nature, but then I remembered this set has low atk evs.

Also wouldn't Lonely>Naughty cause Naughty might put you into KO range for weaker ice beams.
 
Also wouldn't Lonely>Naughty cause Naughty might put you into KO range for weaker ice beams.
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I prefer Lonely, however several people I discussed it with and tested it told me they preferred Naughty. It's truly up to the user here.
 
Lonely is far better than Naughty, like Sonic said. I'll start breeding tomorrow. Thank god I found a godly Lonely Ditto in my boxes.

It's kinda off topic, but I think Swampert would be a good lead that can set up Stealth Rock quickly. And it isn't hit by Sandstorm, what is nice. Another good Stealth Rock user is Empoleon, but it doesn't lead =/
 
Surgo said:
It's OHKOed when you Swords Dance on the switch to Blissey...Blissey hardly says "hi". And if you Draco Meteor or something on the switch, it's not like it's hard to find a good switch-in for Blissey. Think about the situation more before posting please.
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I've run some quick calcs and theres a small chance that a max def, max HP Blissey might survive a SDed Earthquake (662HP Min) if Garchomp is Mild. I could be wrong though.

EDIT nm, you've changed the nature on the set in the OP -.-
 
I would like to point out that Chain Chomp won't be able to stop a CB Donphan from killing it.

We shall assume Donphan survives the initial Meteor (based on your calculations, anyways).

Max Atk CB Donphan vs. 31 Def IV Chain Chomp using Ice Shard, which always goes first:
Chain Chomp's Max HP: 357
Ice Shard Damage: 289 - 340 (80.95% - 95.24%)

Add on the 10% that your Life Orb subtracted, there is a chance your Chain Chomp will die before firing off the second Meteor, which will kill Chain Chomp if the Ice Shard didn't.

Or am I mistaken?
 
Syrene: I'm gonna post more about tiers again... but I feel it does contribute to this topic.

Surgo: I was looking for a solid counter to your set outside of Cresselia for those who play no-legendaries (I play it... not here of course, but with my RL friends. Some people don't seem to understand that not all legendaries are uber... but anyway)

Lapras with 252 HP evs hits 121+ defense tiers on both sides, physical and special. However, unlike Cresselia, it gets hit for neutral by everything Garchomp can throw at it.

Lapras still dies to Swords Dance Earthquake... (Garchomp + Swords Dance + Earthquake == tier 118.53) but with some Defense EVs, it should be more than capable of surviving a hit, then OHKOing with STAB ice beam.

If Garchomp somehow got +speed passed to it, high HP/Def EVed Lapras seems the way to go. Admittingly, this is a revenge kill. But thats your fault for letting the opponent get a swords dance and + speed off.
 
I've used the set and it works. Personally I don't even think you really need Swords Dance on the set other than to imitate it being a normal SD Chomp. Usually if you bring out a normal Swords Dancer in the early game you'll scout for what the counter is anyway and just attack to inflict some damage to maybe put the counter in KO range later. In my battles using this set I would quake early and hit something like Hippowdon on the switch and then Draco Meteor to take it out or inflict a massive amount of damage. You don't even really need to faint the counters.. just severely cripple them so something like Tyranitar can come in later and clean house.
 
Wow I'll expect this on Shoddy next time I see a Garchomp.

Anyways, you go over how Chain Chomp takes down Garchomps regular counters. What exactly counters this one?
 
General Tso said:
Wow I'll expect this on Shoddy next time I see a Garchomp.

Anyways, you go over how Chain Chomp takes down Garchomps regular counters. What exactly counters this one?
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Cresselia has been said to be a good counter. Also, Milotic (and to a lesser extent, Suicune).
 
General Tso said:
Wow I'll expect this on Shoddy next time I see a Garchomp.

Anyways, you go over how Chain Chomp takes down Garchomps regular counters. What exactly counters this one?
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Well... I'd say CB Donphan still counters this guy... unless the post I just made was totally wrong.

Errr... Vaporeon would do a good job. Survives 80 base SAtk Meteors and its usual EQs with more than half to spare.
 
Taishaku said:
Well... I'd say CB Donphan still counters this guy... unless the post I just made was totally wrong.

Errr... Vaporeon would do a good job. Survives 80 base SAtk Meteors and its usual EQs with more than half to spare.
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I don't think anyone uses CB Donphan. While it gets a ton of attack, it loses one of it's best moves: Rapid Spin. Can someone calculate the damage Swampert takes from Draco Meteor?

Oh. Maybe Claydol with some SDEF evs can take Draco Meteors and has Levitate, right?
 
Taishaku said:
Well... I'd say CB Donphan still counters this guy... unless the post I just made was totally wrong.

Errr... Vaporeon would do a good job. Survives 80 base SAtk Meteors and its usual EQs with more than half to spare.
Click to expand...

Before I say anything... what EV spread does that Vaporeon have?
 
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