Chaining Research Project

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chaining Research Project

Greetings, Smogon. My Chaining Guide has now been up for almost 5 months, and thus far seems to have been successful. Now, however, I feel it is time to examine some of the methods in the guide, specifically what I define as an "optimal" and "bad" patch formations. After doing some research consisting of reading other guides, experimenting while chaining, and actually listening what people have to say to me, I've decided that my methods need review. I am certain that some of them are correct and relatively sure of the rest. Although I don't believe any of my methods to be incorrect, I feel as though there are more correct methods out there. Finding those methods, as well as testing the ones I have forced you all to accept, is the purpose of this project.

What you can do:

If I intended to do this all by myself I probably wouldn't have gone through the trouble of telling everyone about it. As you might have guessed, I'm looking for experienced chainers to assist me in this project. I'm not withholding any information in my guide, so there are a few who know nearly as much about chaining as I do. If you're one of these people, I'd certainly like your help. If you're not, that's okay too. The baseline tasks I will be asking of you really aren't very difficult, so anyone who knows what they're doing will inevitably be as valuable an asset as they want to be. I want as many people as possible, so don't hesitate to sign up, no matter how much you think you can contribute. The one thing you need to guarantee me is that you will follow your assignment with care, precision, and efficiency. If you can't do this, please do not sign up.

The One Prerequisite:

I lied, there are actually two things you need to guarantee me. The first is mentioned above, the second is this: You must be able to easily recognize the formations you are looking at when chaining. If you have any trouble doing this, you should not participate in this project. You will soon see why having this skill mastered is of the utmost importance.

What you get out of it:

Not much, to be honest. I might offer some of my pokemon, but I'd rather make this about improving the community's knowledge of chaining than getting prizes. You will all get recognition in the guide of course, but other than that the only thing I can really offer you is an encouraging slap on the ass. Just know that you'll be helping to improve our comprehension of chaining.

What your exact assignment will be:

This really depends a lot on how many people sign up, so I can't tell you right off the bat. However, I figure this will be the first people ask, so I'll give you a general sense...

. You will be chaining... as much as you can handle.

. You can request certain tasks if I offer them or if you come up with good ones.

. You will be keeping very precise data on each formation and how many successes and fails it has. More on that in a bit.

Data Collecting and Reporting:
Extremely important!! Please Read!!

. Only Pokemon with 20% catch rates or below can have data taken on them!! No swarms, Static/Magnet Pull, or Starlys!!
. In your data, specify which pokemon you are chaining, separate the data by pokemon (don't combine data of pokemon with different catch rates)!
. Rather than assigning each person a formation, I want everyone to collect data on all 5 formations, since they will all appear for everybody equally (in theory of course).
. Once again, you must keep exact records. It's not enough to say "Formation 3 broke every once in a while," or "Formation 5 it teh pwnzor!!1!eleven!1!"
. Instead of statements, I want data such as "Formation 3 broke 5/26 times" or "Formation 5 did not break in 37 tries." Pretty simple.
. This is why I named the formations, so it would be easy for you to keep record of. I would recommend keeping track by making tally marks on a piece of paper (that you won't lose) or on a spreadsheet/word document/other electronic source. If you EV train in a similar fashion you could record data that way, since it's something you're used to. Bottom line: whatever gets the job done accurately!
. Report the data to me, and only to me. Do not post it in this topic. You can do this via PM if you must, but I'd prefer it through email or AIM, because I hate PM's. I'm not sure when I will want the data from you by, suggestions anyone? I don't wanna rush anyone, especially because my schedule's quite busy as well.

AIM: Wow its Diesel
Email: derrym4790@yahoo.com

What I know:

I am certain that these formations are among the best in existence, and have a very small chance (<2%) of breaking chains.

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

The Jesus Formation, works almost 100% of the time.

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

The next best thing, almost never fails.

What I want to test:

My Current Buddy Theory:

. Buddies cannot be on an axis or touching an axis.
. Buddies must be a 2- or 3-away.
. Buddies cannot be directly adjacent or diagonal to a 4-away (no touching).
. Buddies must be in line with the 4-away or...
. Buddies must have a coordinate greater than that of a 4-away. This means if a 4-away has the coordinates of (4,2) then the buddy must have the coordinates of (2,3).

Basically this means that buddies are one of the following 3 squares, and enterable 4-aways are the following 4 squares.

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

Formations #1, 2, and 3:

I want to test this theory, or rather its limitations, with the following 3 formations. The first one is a formation I have basically accepted as one of the safest formations possible, and doesn't break any of the rules, but I want to confirm its value. The second fails to meet the final criterion, yet I have entered it more frequently of late, and it hasn't broken any chains. The third formation uses a patch touching an axis as a buddy. This one I certainly have my doubts about, but seems to be the most promising of all formations using this type of buddy.



4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 | 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 | 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 | 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 | 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

Formation #4:

Forsworn's formation. It has a nice ring to it, but does it work? This type of formation interests me the most because it doesn't follow any of my rules. If successful, a formation like this seems to leave the door open for so many other formations. This is one reason I think the project is important, to discover more formations like this.

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

Formation #5:

1-, 2-, and 3-aways are of the opposite patch type as the chain was begun with, 4-away is the same. I'm very confident this formation is at least decent after trying it out, I don't know how I didn't think of it before.

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 | 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 | 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 | 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

Alternate Hypothesis: On the Serebii guide I read about a "Line Theory," which I will give the gist of. Basically, if any two patches are in line with one another, either vertical or horizontal, the formation is unsafe. I believe this hypothesis to be mostly incorrect at the least. From what I've tried, it does not seem very effective. What success I've had with it seems no more attributable to the theory than to luck. Furthermore, my "Jesus Formation" directly contradicts the Line Theory, which obviously makes me question it.

If anyone would like to defend this theory, test this theory, or even prove to me it works, please do so.

Please post any other suggestions or hypotheses, but make sure you've had success with them so you don't end up wasting everyone's time with them.

How to Apply:

I would imagine most people who are interested in this project are the same people who most in Look At What I Chained, in which case I probably have a decent sense of how good a chainer you are. Nonetheless, just post a little bit about how you are as a chainer (brag if you must, I suppose), and what your experience level is and whatnot. Again, you don't have to be pro, just be able to meet my requirements and fulfill the tasks I ask of you. As you can see this is a pretty light screening process, so I'm placing my trust in you.

Participants:

1. Diesel
2. forbidden
3. Shelcario
4. notorious
5. Pimplup
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Questions? Please ask! Here if possible, AIM second, PM if necessary. :)

Thanks for your help!!!

<3 Diesel
 
I wish I could help, if I hadn't taken that break from pokemon maybe I could have been a help. Good luck on this though.
 
Good luck with your review. I would help - but I'm useless at chaining. However, I printed of your guide yesterday, and have got a 48 Bidoof chain :). 1 shiny...
 
I think there isn't a real theory... =(
There are a few good formations and the rest depends on your luck

If I'd have a own game I would help you... sorry
 
It's definitely been proven that there are certain formations that do seem to increase the probability of a chain continuing. As to whether or not the results of the Line Theory and the Jesus Formation actually do contradict each other remains to be seen, and will be something that I'll be testing with any pokemon that decides it wants to swarm. I think probably the best place for me to test this would be south of Veilstone city when the Spoink decide to swarm, since there is a particularly appealing patch of grass that has caught my eye and seems quite promising.

Edit: by the way, consider this my application to be a part of this project. i am relatively new to chaining, which is why I consider myself a good candidate. If I can get a result out of any of these methods, anybody can. -_-
And also, since I can't access WiFi from my laptop for whatever reason, consider this help to be free gratis ;)
 
Forsworn - Are you saying that I need to make one or that the game doesn't have one?

Bad Wolf - I'm going to edit the OP with more details, included in though will be that swarms and anything else above a certain appearance rate won't be allowed, because the chains are so much harder to break. Again, more details to come.
 
I'd be glad to help research some of those patch formations for you Diesel:) Also about that Line Theory I've tested this patch formation so many times which is when the 3 away is of opposite type that you started with and either the 1 or 2 away is in a line with the 4 away but not at the same time and the other patch can't be in a line with the 3 away then the 4 away is safe as long as it's not on an edge or in a line with the opposite shaking 1 or 2 away.

EDIT: I've also entered a lot of the patch formation where the 4 away is of the type you started with and the 1,2,and 3 aways are of the opposite type and it hasn't broken my chain yet.
 
I'd be glad to help out with this. Seems like you want us to record which formations break and which ones succeed?

Successful chains so far: Starly/Gastly/Beldum/Magnemite/Geodude/Nincada

I believe the Line theory is false as well since I've gone into many formations where 2 patches are on the same line and it didn't break.
 
Alternate Hypothesis: On the Serebii guide I read about a "Line Theory," which I will give the gist of. Basically, if any two patches are in line with one another, either vertical or horizontal, the formation is unsafe. I believe this hypothesis to be mostly incorrect at the least. From what I've tried, it does not seem very effective. What success I've had with it seems no more attributable to the theory than to luck. Furthermore, my "Jesus Formation" directly contradicts the Line Theory, which obviously makes me question it.

If anyone would like to defend this theory, test this theory, or even prove to me it works, please do so.

Please post any other suggestions or hypotheses, but make sure you've had success with them so you don't end up wasting everyone's time with them.
I completely agree. I actually did the very same thing on Serebii, I just chained to test. Line Patches from my findings, have a 97% chance of continuing your chain, that means, very rarely does a chain break from a line pattern, only 3%. Here's the link, but without all of the percentages because it was the beginning research project...

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=7535230&postcount=10051


"Sparkly Patches" means "Flashing Patches" so you don't get confused.
 
Were the 2 patches in a line of the same type? And if so was the 3 away of the opposite wiggling type?
Yes same patch type and the 3 away is no where near the 4 away.

Also something like this didn't break either.

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 Y 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1 1 1 2 3 4
4 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 4
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
 
That's three in a line and I've never entered any of those because it's supposedly going to break your chain a lot. But I guess I should test it more.
 
Update: Edited data collecting section.

I'll study up on that line theory a little better and make a section so we can really test it, thanks for the input on that guys! I have also tested the formation forbidden posted, or taken note of it when I encounter it, and it never breaks. But yea, we'll see I guess.

More people should sign up! I know we have plenty of capable chainers here. I don't want to do this by myself, but I will if necessary. Thanks to Shelcario and forbidden (<3)!
 
I can help if you want. Im still working on my floatzel chain though its in the 70's, I plan on finishing it before the end of the week. Ive done a few other chains of above 40 but that was before I read your guide so I just kept going in to patchs and not resetting.

Also good luck and thanks for the guide. I hope this research project helps make chaining even easier.
 
Forsworn - Are you saying that I need to make one or that the game doesn't have one?

Bad Wolf - I'm going to edit the OP with more details, included in though will be that swarms and anything else above a certain appearance rate won't be allowed, because the chains are so much harder to break. Again, more details to come.

I think the game doesn't have one...
 
I can tell you Diesel that the formation 1 where the 3 away is in a line with the 4 away is probably going to break your chain a lot. I haven't proved this but I've only entered the already proven line theory and it works only with 1 and 2 aways, not 3 aways.
 
That's actually the one I have the most confidence in, and I almost didn't put it on here because of how confident I am in it. And the last sentence you wrote didn't make sense to me, can you rephrase it? What do you mean by "already proven line theory."
 
The line theory where the 4 away is the same type as the one or two away it's in a line with where as the 3 away isn't in a line with any other patch and is of the opposite type of patch has proven itself to be safe for me. Has only broken my chain once, but that was only because the 3 away was in a line with another patch.
 
By theory do you mean formation? Either way, it's not relevant, we're here to test, not to generalize based on past experiences, which is what I have been doing up until this point. Just throw all those experiences and biases out the window, and when the project gets underway, test the formations. That's what need to happen to ensure success here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top