Referring to the Smog's Mega Stones in OU article. Because Fire/Dragon is such a beastly STAB combo Zard X can afford to run Roost over EQ, though it does make it more susceptible to Tran and Azumarill and forces you to play Mind Games with Aegislash's King's Shield, but other then that no real loss comes from slashing EQ, but given how common those three threats can be, it's your choice on Coverage vs Survivability, because Zard X has 111 Def and 85 Sp. Def not bad for something as threatening as Zard X, so Roost isn't completely out of the question, just if you run it instead of EQ, be sure to pack a answer to the three Pokemon mentioned earlier.
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Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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Referring to the Smog's Mega Stones in OU article. Because Fire/Dragon is such a beastly STAB combo Zard X can afford to run Roost over EQ, though it does make it more susceptible to Tran and Azumarill and forces you to play Mind Games with Aegislash's King's Shield, but other then that no real loss comes from slashing EQ, but given how common those three threats can be, it's your choice on Coverage vs Survivability, because Zard X has 111 Def and 85 Sp. Def not bad for something as threatening as Zard X, so Roost isn't completely out of the question, just if you run it instead of EQ, be sure to pack a answer to the three Pokemon mentioned earlier.
It is, but I'd rather hit Aegis without having to worry about KS than use Brick Break just for Ttar, when +1 Outrage still does ~90%, even though it gets me locked. It also picks off Azumarill if it's low enough.
Most Charizard X (most non-choice dragons in general) opt for dragon claw over outrage. The roost > EQ is a viable choice, but you'll be left pretty stranded against Azumarill and Heatran. I kinda wish we could update the OP (specs charizard?), but here's what I think the standard Charizard X DD set is
Charizard @ Charizardite
Adamant/Jolly / 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Dragon Claw / Outrage
-Flare Blitz
-Earthquake / Roost / Thunder Punch
-Dragon Dance
He can run outrage, but it sort of limits his ability to sweep early to mid game. EQ is probably the most popular 3rd move choice, but roost is also very viable with his decent physical bulk. Thunder Punch is also there for teams that have trouble with Azumarill.
Its close enough, but fighting coverage just isn't that useful.
True. EQ handles Aegis. But as for KS aren't most sets 4 attacks wallbreaker now?
90% of the Aegislash I see run King's Shield.. I ran non-KS Aegis for a bit and I just think that it's inferior to KS Aegis. Being able to easily switch in, attack, and then stay instead of switching out because you literally get OHKO'd by anything is too good to pass up.
Also, for Dragon Claw vs. Outrage, I'd much rather OHKO (or at least, do some -serious- damage) some annoying walls than falling short of OHKOing them, most importantly, Rotom-W. It's just too weak to get past some Pokemon.
Also, for Dragon Claw vs. Outrage, I'd much rather OHKO (or at least, do some -serious- damage) some annoying walls than falling short of OHKOing them, most importantly, Rotom-W. It's just too weak to get past some Pokemon.
As for Dragon claw, the amount of OHKO's you lose at +1 compared to outrage is probably so many it's not funny. Just have a fairy killer on your team to clean them out, and just wait till they're gone to start setting up DD.
I still prefer Fire Punch + Outrage over Flare Blitz + Dragon Claw. EQ/Brick Break/Thunder Punch for coverage.
Dragon STAB can only hit Dragon for SE, so will be mostly used on neutral targets and the extra power on Outrage helps; +1 Fire Punch will kill almost anything weak to Fire anyways.
Or keep Flare Blitz and drop your Dragon attack for Roost/more coverage.
Dragon STAB can only hit Dragon for SE, so will be mostly used on neutral targets and the extra power on Outrage helps; +1 Fire Punch will kill almost anything weak to Fire anyways.
Or keep Flare Blitz and drop your Dragon attack for Roost/more coverage.
I use flame charge / outrage / roost / belly drum. If there's not a fairy, you can lead, belly drum, flame charge, and outrage entire teams if you play it right. If there is a fairy, or a priority user, or something of that sort, I either send him out to get me some momentum, or save him til mid game. Flare Blitz makes almost no sense on a belly drum set, even with roost. Outrage is there because you need that 120 bp attack. Flame charge can deal decent damage to lots of pokemon and weakens just about every lead I've fought enough to be KO'd by outrage.
I might have to change up my bellyzard now. Gonna give this a try cause the lack of speed and rocks was really one of the main reasons(I believe) we rarely see bellyzard.
Speaking of Aegislash, I don't think Outrage is as viable as it was last gen because it's pretty much makes you Aegislash fodder. Aegislash can switch in, KS, and cripple you. You could get around this by running Dragon Claw along side Outrage a la Salamence, but I think Zard prefers to have Roost or a coverage move in the 4th slot.
Lately, I've been having success running this set on my Mega X:
Charizard w/ Charizardite X
136 HP/120 Atk/ 252 Spe, Jolly Nature
Moves:
Will-o-Wisp
Roost
Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw
I find that this set solves Mega X's problem against Azumarill and Aegislash when you're not running Earthquake as a coverage move. Will-o-wisp cripples Azumarill completely, and you can either stall it out with Roost or kill it off with a few Flare Blitzes if Azu is weakened (it actually does considerable amounts to Azumarill). WoW also goes through Aegislash's King Shield, which means it, too, is crippled unless it has Shadow Ball, but even then, you'll outspeed it and OHKO with Flare Blitz after burn damage.
Heatran is still a problem, however, so you'll have to have someone on your team to deal with that...
Charizard w/ Charizardite X
136 HP/120 Atk/ 252 Spe, Jolly Nature
Moves:
Will-o-Wisp
Roost
Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw
I find that this set solves Mega X's problem against Azumarill and Aegislash when you're not running Earthquake as a coverage move. Will-o-wisp cripples Azumarill completely, and you can either stall it out with Roost or kill it off with a few Flare Blitzes if Azu is weakened (it actually does considerable amounts to Azumarill). WoW also goes through Aegislash's King Shield, which means it, too, is crippled unless it has Shadow Ball, but even then, you'll outspeed it and OHKO with Flare Blitz after burn damage.
Heatran is still a problem, however, so you'll have to have someone on your team to deal with that...
Other than bulky rock types with Sturdy, are there any single Pokemon that counter both X and Y? OP lists Azumarill, and while it's a decent combatant to X, Y's Solar Beam will eat it alive.
I've had success using Dragonite, Garchomp, Mienshao, Aerodactyl, and Donphan but if any of my attacks miss it's game over. I'm interested in something a bit more reliable. I know Balloon Heatran does the trick, but I'm not really interested in using him.
Keeping up Rocks is obviously something I'd do if they don't lead with him, but wouldn't you know it, they always lead with it.
I've had success using Dragonite, Garchomp, Mienshao, Aerodactyl, and Donphan but if any of my attacks miss it's game over. I'm interested in something a bit more reliable. I know Balloon Heatran does the trick, but I'm not really interested in using him.
Keeping up Rocks is obviously something I'd do if they don't lead with him, but wouldn't you know it, they always lead with it.
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Tyranitar can check them both pretty hard.
Switch in on Solar Beam to lock in Y. Switch in on anything other than EQ/BrickBreak against X.
Can even switch in on a CharX DD if they don't run Brick Break:
+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Air Balloon Ttar can switch in on any non-Brick Break CharX attack.
Chople Berry Ttar can switch in on any non-Focus Blast CharY attack.
Choice Scarf Ttar can switch in on any non-Fighting attack from either Mega Char (Except DDance on Brick Break CharX, but who runs that?).
I don't know why I didn't think about Tyranitar, as you put it he is pretty solid as long as Charizard lacks fighting moves.
I also found a couple other hard counters I didn't know about on the Gen VI OU statistics thread, so I've got a few new Pokemon I'm going to try out.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 352-415 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
A liiiiiiittle bit of residual damage and tyranitar is a dead tyranitar. (With SR it's a 94% chance to OHKO)
Also since when is Air Balloon ttar a thing? lol
Pretty much this. After a DD, Mega X can tear apart T-Tar, especially if he switched in to it to take a Flare Blitz, since the next turn can be used to finish it off with Dragon Claw or EQ. Personally, I don't see Brick Break to be all that necessary on Mega X because of this, unless you're extremely desperate to take out T-Tar and lack other options to deal with him.
Precisely. That's why I have a Jolly Mamoswine with a Life Orb paired with this Mega X to deal with such a threat. Once he's out of the way, it's pretty much smooth sailing.
T-Tar does have to worry about Char Y Mega-Evolving to shut down the sand, then Focus Blasting.
While that may be true, FB has to make sure it decides to hit T-Tar with that 70% accuracy, or else Mega Y will be OHKO'd by Stone Edge or Rock Slide.
Yeah, because tyranitar is clearly not gambling either.
T-tar has better chances to hit, though. SE has 80% while Rock Slide has 90%.
T-tar can only check ZardY once it has evolved. If u switch-in T-tar on the turn Charizard mega-evolves, your Ttar is toast/forced out. Which means you have to have something to sponge ZardY's initial Fire Blast, else you're gonna have to sac something in order to bring in T-tar to force ZardY out.
But switching in on an unevolved Charizard is itself a gamble
That, too, is true, which is why it'd be best to wait until he evolves before switching T-Tar in. That shouldn't take too long anyway since pretty much all Charizards with Charizardite Y immediately mega evolve.
Also, if you decide to ever mega evolve into Mega T-Tar, Sand Stream can come back right after Mega Y comes into play that same turn, increasing your Special Defense and stopping Solar Beam in its tracks.
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