Pokémon Charizard

[mrglass]

All right. For teams with Charizard X, think Miami. They've got stars that demand your attention and typically make or break the team. They take all the credit too (yes that was a jab at Lebron). With Y teams, think more about the Spurs (in their prime. They're still good, but man do I miss the old days). Very team oriented. They have players that can step up and make a huge difference, but they rarely depend on all star performances as the team works together to win the game. You take your pick out of those, but don't let last season's fluke sway your oppinion.


Obviously I'm a little biased (Born and raised a Spurs fan), but that example does a decent job of showing how both have systems that work. X is the better solo pokemon, similar to how Lebron is better than just about everybody, but the Spurs still showed that they were their equal by the team having synergy, similar to how Y can support his team mates more. Hope that helps

While I agree Y has a great role as a supporter, I think it's potential as a sweeper is severely understated. It has the strong coverage, the power, and the boosting moves to pull it off once it's main threats, Heatran and Tyranitar, are cleared off the field (of if you are running Focus Blast, once the Dragons are cleared).

I actually use X as a wallbreaker on my team, and Y as a sweeper on a different team. I feel like X's strong mixed attacking stats combined with Tough Claws allow it to fill that role more effectively.

 

[Primary]

I've been working on a "Double Dragon" core of sorts with Charizard X. So far I've been using Dragonite as X's partner in crime, but I'm wondering, is there a better partner for X to have?

Dragonite's probably your best bet. Charizard covers the ice weakness, and it has some bulk to take on hyper offensive teams more consistently. I might also suggest Garchomp, for similar reasons, but it also covers Heatran and rock types.

I beg to differ. Charizard takes neutral damage from Ice-Type moves and the only real relevant Ice-Type threats are Mamoswine and Protean Ice Beam Greninja, neither of which Mega Charizard X enjoys taking a hit from. Mega Charizard X also severely struggles against healthy physically defensive Pokemon (Hippowdon, Slowbro, etc) so a solid mix Dragon would work best. Things such as Life Orb Garchomp or even Hydreigon might fit the bill. Garchomp is probably the more solid answer. Plus, Garchomp can provide the invaluable Stealth Rock support.

 

[FurryGah]

I was thinking about using Thunder Punch and Aqua Tail / Waterfall on Dragonite to help combat Azumaril, Hippowdon, Slowbro, Vaporeon, and Heatran (specifically ones with Air Balloon). Idk how well Garchomp can deal with a lot of the previously noted Pokemon other than Heatran, which Dragonite can deal with as well. Stealth Rock can be covered by another team mate, as can a way to remove Rocks off the field (Defog / Rapid Spin).

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

While I agree Y has a great role as a supporter, I think it's potential as a sweeper is severely understated. It has the strong coverage, the power, and the boosting moves to pull it off once it's main threats, Heatran and Tyranitar, are cleared off the field (of if you are running Focus Blast, once the Dragons are cleared).

I actually use X as a wallbreaker on my team, and Y as a sweeper on a different team. I feel like X's strong mixed attacking stats combined with Tough Claws allow it to fill that role more effectively.

It has potential for a sweep, but most people don't go into a fight and think "how can I sweep with Y?" They think "which wall does Y need to break?" In the Spurs comparison, it can become a game maker just like Parker or Ginobili or Duncan can, but none of them try to be stars every game, and neither should Y

I beg to differ. Charizard takes neutral damage from Ice-Type moves and the only real relevant Ice-Type threats are Mamoswine and Protean Ice Beam Greninja, neither of which Mega Charizard X enjoys taking a hit from. Mega Charizard X also severely struggles against healthy physically defensive Pokemon (Hippowdon, Slowbro, etc) so a solid mix Dragon would work best. Things such as Life Orb Garchomp or even Hydreigon might fit the bill. Garchomp is probably the more solid answer. Plus, Garchomp can provide the invaluable Stealth Rock support.

When it comes to double dragons, the best you can hope for is neutral damage from ice. While neither of them can switch into a live Greninja, Charizard can save Dragonite or Garchomp from an ice shard. I agree with the need for mixed coverage though. Double dragon sets may work with the idea of simply out muscling your checks, but there's no reason to not try to cover them individually

 

[Primary]

I only brought up the Ice-Type issue to show that Charizard doesn't cover it lol
I hope this clears that up.
Obviously no Dragon should be switching into an Ice Type Pokemon.
But yeah, I feel like Garchomp is just a better option for Mega X

 

[FurryGah]

What does Garchomp offer Charizard as a partner that Dragonite doesn't? How is Garchomp that much better than any other Dragon-type for that matter as Charizard's partner in a Double Dragon core?

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

What does Garchomp offer Charizard as a partner that Dragonite doesn't? How is Garchomp that much better than any other Dragon-type for that matter as Charizard's partner in a Double Dragon core?

I don't think better is the correct term. I suggested Garchomp because he checks Heatran, while Charizard is as good of an ice check you can get from a dragon. Dragonite can be helpful for switching into aquajets, as well as providing some bulk, and is immune to EQ, which Charizard really hates, but really there's no right answer, you'll just have to try a few and see what gets the best results. I recommend starting with Dragonite and Garchomp though. How you'll get around physical walls is something you'll have to consider though. Really I just don't like the idea of a core. When I build a team, I start with 1 pokemon and choose partners who cover its short comings or support it. That's how I got my Dragonite team, which got to 2157 before it lost a match, and that's how I will continue to plan my teams for the foreseeable future.

 

[Primary]

What does Garchomp offer Charizard as a partner that Dragonite doesn't? How is Garchomp that much better than any other Dragon-type for that matter as Charizard's partner in a Double Dragon core?

I listed what Garchomp offers that Dragonite doesn't already in an earlier post. Read before you post.
When did I ever state that Garchomp was much better than any other Dragon-Type? Again, read before you post.
If you come here looking for other alternatives other than Dragonite why don't you sit-back and just accept any suggestions made for you. Don't come here, ask for alternatives, and then shut them down. Right now, to me, it seems like you're just being adamant about keeping Dragonite as your Mega Charizard X partner

 

[BenTheDemon]

I never thought I would say this, but Charizard is OU.

 

[FurryGah]

I listed what Garchomp offers that Dragonite doesn't already in an earlier post. Read before you post.
When did I ever state that Garchomp was much better than any other Dragon-Type? Again, read before you post.
If you come here looking for other alternatives other than Dragonite why don't you sit-back and just accept any suggestions made for you. Don't come here, ask for alternatives, and then shut them down. Right now, to me, it seems like you're just being adamant about keeping Dragonite as your Mega Charizard X partner

First off, I did read your posts. You didn't really offer many good reasons why Garchomp is that much better than Dragonite. All you really said was "Garchomp is probably the more solid answer (for taking down healthy defensive Pokemon). Plus, Garchomp can provide the invaluable Stealth Rock support". You never explained why or gave valid reasons or examples. So before you go around telling people to "read before you post" make sure that your post has some actual content. And right now, yes I do feel that Dragonite is the better partner for X. It has the most similarities, thus drawing in more of their counters for him to weaken.

Also, I never said that you said that Garchomp was better than every other Dragon, that's just you misinterpreting my post. I was just curious as to what Garchomp or Dragonite bring to the table compared to any other Dragon that could be X's partner, and you've never provided any valid reason or examples for me to think otherwise.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

First off, I did read your posts. You didn't really offer many good reasons why Garchomp is that much better than Dragonite. All you really said was "Garchomp is probably the more solid answer (for taking down healthy defensive Pokemon). Plus, Garchomp can provide the invaluable Stealth Rock support". You never explained why or gave valid reasons or examples. So before you go around telling people to "read before you post" make sure that your post has some actual content. And right now, yes I do feel that Dragonite is the better partner for X. It has the most similarities, thus drawing in more of their counters for him to weaken.

Also, I never said that you said that Garchomp was better than every other Dragon, that's just you misinterpreting my post. I was just curious as to what Garchomp or Dragonite bring to the table compared to any other Dragon that could be X's partner, and you've never provided any valid reason or examples for me to think otherwise.

I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to respond to this, so I'm just going to list every OU viable dragon and how they benefit Charizard X

Goodra - can take special hits better, can attack physical walls,
Dragonite - Can take a hit from attackers who outspeed Charizard and often OHKO's back. Doesn't cover walls to Charizard though
Lati@s - can provide defog support and break physical walls
Garchomp - A little faster than X, can support with SR, and checks heatran
Salamence - Doesn't do much, only set that gives it something Charizard would like is scarf for revenge killing, but that set isn't good this gen
Kyurem B - Breaks walls, runs mixed very well, has decent bulk
Zygarde - physical tank, don't think this is the best pair though
Kingdra - special attacker, still walled by Azumarill, and needs different support
Heydreigon - special/mixed coverage (its OU viability is somewhat in question)

Out of those, I'd choose either dragonite because it helps cover different types of teams, Garchomp, because they cover each other pretty well, or Lati@s, because of the defog support and special attacking. Take your pick, and let me know how it goes

 

[SpaceFlare]

Latios actually fares well I'd think. As fairies aren't running too common and most people still use steels to block Draco Meteors, which Charizard can deal with handily. And you can even do some double switching where you bring in Latios, and they predict a DM and you go to Charizard, giving you a chance to setup Charizard freely.

Latias can help with Defog support, should rocks come up before you get a chance to bring in Charizard, so you don't lose half your health before you MEvo. Even when MEvo'd, losing 25% of your HP hurts so I'm sure Charizard will still appreciate the Defog support.

 

[Primary]

I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to respond to this, so I'm just going to list every OU viable dragon and how they benefit Charizard X

Goodra - can take special hits better, can attack physical walls,

Dragonite - Can take a hit from attackers who outspeed Charizard and often OHKO's back. Doesn't cover walls to Charizard though
Lati@s - can provide defog support and break physical walls
Garchomp - A little faster than X, can support with SR, and checks heatran
Salamence - Doesn't do much, only set that gives it something Charizard would like is scarf for revenge killing, but that set isn't good this gen
Kyurem B - Breaks walls, runs mixed very well, has decent bulk
Zygarde - physical tank, don't think this is the best pair though
Kingdra - special attacker, still walled by Azumarill, and needs different support
Heydreigon - special/mixed coverage (its OU viability is somewhat in question)

Out of those, I'd choose either dragonite because it helps cover different types of teams, Garchomp, because they cover each other pretty well, or Lati@s, because of the defog support and special attacking. Take your pick, and let me know how it goes

Thank you Kairyu_Gen1
To be honest, the only really answer to a Mega Charizard X is probably Heatran because many run Roost as survivability is just crucial.
Hippowdon, Slowbro and Vaporeon don't fare too well against Mega Charizard X anyways, especially when their not at full health.

• +1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 246-289 (58.5 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• +1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 250-295 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• +1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Latios actually fares well I'd think. As fairies aren't running too common and most people still use steels to block Draco Meteors, which Charizard can deal with handily. And you can even do some double switching where you bring in Latios, and they predict a DM and you go to Charizard, giving you a chance to setup Charizard freely.

Latias can help with Defog support, should rocks come up before you get a chance to bring in Charizard, so you don't lose half your health before you MEvo. Even when MEvo'd, losing 25% of your HP hurts so I'm sure Charizard will still appreciate the Defog support.

Latias with Defog and Healing Wish is pretty deadly especially when paired with Mega Charizard X

 

[FurryGah]

If you consider Heatran a check or counter to Mega Charizard X consider this, un-Mega-Evolved Adamant Charizard with no boosts has a 25% chance to OHKO Specially Defensive Heatran (probably one of the more common sets, idk who runs a Physically Defensive Heatran) and a 100% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

252+ Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 340-404 (88 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Considering that Earth Power is generally the only move that threatens X, If you see that your opponent has a Heatran you could just prolong Mega Evolving and either just set up Dragon Dances in its face or Earthquake outright, assuming you run Earthquake that is. Until you Mega Evolve and the opponent knows your set, Heatran is most likely not going to want to come in.

Even if your opponent suspects you're running Y, idk if they'll want to switch Heatran in since:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 210-248 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So, until your opponent figures out that you're running either X without Earthquake or Y without Focus Blast, I'd assume (just therymoning here) that they wouldn't want to bring Heatran in until they knew your set or else they could lose their Heatran prematurely.

Also, I'm kind of curious what walls Dragonite can't take down, or at least weaken significantly so that X can sweep, that wall X. Dragonite has amazing coverage (Earthquake, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Aqua Tail, etc) and a lot of similarities to X (in the fact that they're usually Dragon Dance sweepers), so I don't see how they wouldn't be a natural pairing for each other. One lures in counters / checks and weakens them while the other breaks through and sweeps. Either way, one of those two monsters is going to be sweeping the opponent's team. Garchomp seems like a good pairing to me too, but the main factor that makes it for me is that Dragonite gets Dragon Dance while Garchomp doesn't. I'm looking for a sweeping partner for X in my Double Dragon core, even though Garchomp makes a better wall breaker.

 

[Sandoori]

For what it's worth, Ancientpower/HP Rock is seeing some use on Heatran now to deal with Talonflame. Charizard really won't like that if it stays in its base form.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

If you consider Heatran a check or counter to Mega Charizard X consider this, un-Mega-Evolved Adamant Charizard with no boosts has a 25% chance to OHKO Specially Defensive Heatran (probably one of the more common sets, idk who runs a Physically Defensive Heatran) and a 100% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

252+ Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 340-404 (88 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Considering that Earth Power is generally the only move that threatens X, If you see that your opponent has a Heatran you could just prolong Mega Evolving and either just set up Dragon Dances in its face or Earthquake outright, assuming you run Earthquake that is. Until you Mega Evolve and the opponent knows your set, Heatran is most likely not going to want to come in.

Even if your opponent suspects you're running Y, idk if they'll want to switch Heatran in since:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 210-248 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So, until your opponent figures out that you're running either X without Earthquake or Y without Focus Blast, I'd assume (just therymoning here) that they wouldn't want to bring Heatran in until they knew your set or else they could lose their Heatran prematurely.

Also, I'm kind of curious what walls Dragonite can't take down, or at least weaken significantly so that X can sweep, that wall X. Dragonite has amazing coverage (Earthquake, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Aqua Tail, etc) and a lot of similarities to X (in the fact that they're usually Dragon Dance sweepers), so I don't see how they wouldn't be a natural pairing for each other. One lures in counters / checks and weakens them while the other breaks through and sweeps. Either way, one of those two monsters is going to be sweeping the opponent's team. Garchomp seems like a good pairing to me too, but the main factor that makes it for me is that Dragonite gets Dragon Dance while Garchomp doesn't. I'm looking for a sweeping partner for X in my Double Dragon core, even though Garchomp makes a better wall breaker.

Heatran is a check for Charizard, because unless it has Earthquake, the best you can hope for is to 4HKO (or DD twice and 2HKO) with dragon claw. Since he can run earthquake, Heatran is not a counter. Please get your terminology right. Also, I don't give a crap about calcs with SR, because keeping SR on the field is not a sure thing this gen.

Not mega evolving is rarely an option because any team with Charizard X should have at least 1 pokemon to deal with Heatran, so you'd never switch Charizard into Heatran, and Heatran rarely switches into an unevolved Charizard because there's a chance its a focus blast wielding Y.

Dragonite, depending on the set, can have trouble with the same pokemon that trouble Charizard. While I would never suggest using this set with Charizard X, I run a dragon claw/fire punch set with DD and roost. He gets walled by Azumarill, Heatran, and physical walls that can survive 1 hit and either cause decent damage back or phase you out ruining your set up. If when running Charizard, you find yourself getting cut off by those pokemon, then I wouldn't suggest using Dragonite as your partner. If you don't have trouble with them, then Dragonite could be a great partner. Really, theorymoning won't get you very far with this problem, get out there and start testing

 

[FurryGah]

Heatran is a check for Charizard unless it has Earthquake, the best you can hope for is to 4HKO (or DD twice and 2HKO) with dragon claw. Since he can run earthquake, Heatran is not a counter. Please get your terminology right. Also, I don't give a crap about calcs with SR, because keeping SR on the field is not a sure thing this gen.

Not mega evolving is rarely an option because any team with Charizard X should have at least 1 pokemon to deal with Heatran, so you'd never switch Charizard into Heatran, and Heatran rarely switches into an unevolved Charizard because there's a chance its a focus blast wielding Y.

Dragonite, depending on the set, can have trouble with the same pokemon that trouble Charizard. While I would never suggest using this set with Charizard X, I run a dragon claw/fire punch set with DD and roost. He gets walled by Azumarill, Heatran, and physical walls that can survive 1 hit and either cause decent damage back or phase you out ruining your set up. If when running Charizard, you find yourself getting cut off by those pokemon, then I wouldn't suggest using Dragonite as your partner. If you don't have trouble with them, then Dragonite could be a great partner. Really, theorymoning won't get you very far with this problem, get out there and start testing

To be fair, I never called Heatran a Charizard counter. I specifically said "If you consider Heatran a check or counter [insert counter argument here]". I never outright called or claimed Heatran to be a Charizard counter. Maybe my comments aren't clear enough or I'm not communicating in a clear enough manner, but people seem to be mis-interprering my comments lately.

Back on subject though, it really depends on the set X's partner is running.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

To be fair, I never called Heatran a Charizard counter. I specifically said "If you consider Heatran a check or counter [insert counter argument here]". I never outright called or claimed Heatran to be a Charizard counter. Maybe my comments aren't clear enough or I'm not communicating in a clear enough manner, but people seem to be mis-interprering my comments lately.

Back on subject though, it really depends on the set X's partner is running.

And I never said you said that Heatran was a counter, I just explained it because anybody who understands how counters and checks work would never have mentioned Charizard X and counter in the same sentence, except to say that Charizard is a counter to Torkoal or something like that. Just because its not written down doesn't mean it's not communicated, intentionally or not.

Anyway, I've been going over some of my Charizard X battles (I document battles that were particularly interesting), and while my playing style wouldn't work well with a double dragons core, the times I've used X would have been best aided by a Latias. Charizard is bulky enough to take hits from fast'n'frail teams, and fast enough to take on balanced teams, and strong enough to take on bulky teams. I've never liked using him against stall, but if you run roost, he does ok there too. From my battles, what I noticed he would've loved was a support mon to give it healing and defog, both of which latias could do. Actually, looking at this, I might try it myself. Dragonite is a great mon, but the only time I've had huge success with him is when the entire team is built around setting up the opponent for a mid/late game sweep (I have not run any anti lead sets this gen). If you also have charizard X, you'll have to get good at picking which one to spring and when, which can get tricky, and you'll often end up sacrificing one on the hope the other can finish the job (I know that's what double dragon often does. Doesn't mean I think its a good thing). Garchomp's still a great option though.

 

[doinktonberry]

I never thought I would say this, but Charizard is OU.

Or at least zardX anyway. seriously. Its probably the most powerful thing next to kangaskhan in terms of megas. It's stab coverage alone is resisted by almost nothing and it can still have a coverage move to take care of the "almost".
+1 Jolly Outrage against Gliscor
73 to 86%
+1 Jolly Outrage against Hippowdon
64 to 75%
slowbro
71 to 84%
Milotic with wonder guard active (just for the sake of getting the point across)
59.6 to 70.3
All caluclated with max defense investment, no hazards, and +1 for charizard. The only things that can tank an outrage fall easily to fire punch/ flare blitz and the two pokemon in the entire game who resist both, i.e azumarill and heatran are taken care of with earthquake.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Or at least zardX anyway. seriously. Its probably the most powerful thing next to kangaskhan in terms of megas. It's stab coverage alone is resisted by almost nothing and it can still have a coverage move to take care of the "almost".
+1 Jolly Outrage against Gliscor
73 to 86%
+1 Jolly Outrage against Hippowdon
64 to 75%
slowbro
71 to 84%
Milotic with wonder guard active (just for the sake of getting the point across)
59.6 to 70.3
All caluclated with max defense investment, no hazards, and +1 for charizard. The only things that can tank an outrage fall easily to fire punch/ flare blitz and the two pokemon in the entire game who resist both, i.e azumarill and heatran are taken care of with earthquake.

1. Since they're all classified as "Charizard," even regular Charizard will be classified as OU under usage ratings
2. You forgot about Gengar and Lucario, who both hit hard, have amazing coverage, but they both have other niches as well (trapper, priority user)
3. With fairies out there, I don't think anyone's using outrage. I am, but its on a mid-late game sweeping set that runs belly drum, and on a anti lead set for a hyper offensive mono dragon team that is designed to bait fairies to be KO'd by scarfed Garchomp.

Besides that, I think you understand why this pokemon is so good.

 

[doinktonberry]

1. Since they're all classified as "Charizard," even regular Charizard will be classified as OU under usage ratings
2. You forgot about Gengar and Lucario, who both hit hard, have amazing coverage, but they both have other niches as well (trapper, priority user)
3. With fairies out there, I don't think anyone's using outrage. I am, but its on a mid-late game sweeping set that runs belly drum, and on a anti lead set for a hyper offensive mono dragon team that is designed to bait fairies to be KO'd by scarfed Garchomp.

Besides that, I think you understand why this pokemon is so good.

I should have edited my comment better. xD I meant to jokingly say that "I'd never thought I'd say this but charizard should be ubers or at the very least zard x." But i figured that this isn't the time or place to bring that discussion up. And I just used those pokemon as an example because they were the most physicaly defensive pokemon I could think of at the moment that weren't fire weak. I don't even use outrage (or flare blitz). I use fire punch d-claw and rip holes just as easily

 

[LoDart210]

It's a shame zard doesn't get Draco meteor. He could've run a nice mixed wall breaker set. As it stands, how can it so with overheat/fire blast/ focus blast

 

[Salemance]

It's a shame zard doesn't get Draco meteor. He could've run a nice mixed wall breaker set. As it stands, how can it so with overheat/fire blast/ focus blast

He can still run an exceptional wall breaking set, just has to settle with lesser moves. Not the worst situation considering he has some very great coverage moves (hell, Focus Blast may miss, but its still a damn good coverage) yet not the best as he would love some of that Meteor power.

 

[aVocado]

So, on a DD Charizard X set, the attacking options are usually Flare Blitz, Outrage, and Earthquake. I've been using this moveset pretty much on every ZardX I ran on my teams, but how bad will it be if Earthquake was replaced with Roost? Yes, you lose to Heatran, but CharX has to Outrage vs. Balloon tran anyway. Brick Break is an option since it can also hit Ttar but EQ has more raw power and hits other things for good neutral damage.

I'm not happy with the fact that CharX often kills itself due to the insane power of Flare Blitz, so I've been thinking about foregoing EQ for Roost. But how much will this affect it exactly, and can CharX afford a turn to Roost up?

 

[JackTheGordie]

So, on a DD Charizard X set, the attacking options are usually Flare Blitz, Outrage, and Earthquake. I've been using this moveset pretty much on every ZardX I ran on my teams, but how bad will it be if Earthquake was replaced with Roost? Yes, you lose to Heatran, but CharX has to Outrage vs. Balloon tran anyway. Brick Break is an option since it can also hit Ttar but EQ has more raw power and hits other things for good neutral damage.

I'm not happy with the fact that CharX often kills itself due to the insane power of Flare Blitz, so I've been thinking about foregoing EQ for Roost. But how much will this affect it exactly, and can CharX afford a turn to Roost up?

Small nitpick, but wouldn't Brick Break be as powerful as EQ factoring in tough claws? And EQ does allow you to attack w/o taking recoil or being locked into outrage if you need so it does have it's use other than basic coverage