Pokémon Charizard

[MilkyWay]

In terms of sweeping with Charizard X, i think this is probably its best set:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Thunder Punch
- Dragon Dance

Dragon Dance is obvious, while the others are constantly debated. I dislike using either Flare Blitz or Outrage because they both have serious drawbacks that almost always prevent sweeping. Flare Blitz makes you very susceptible to priority, stacks upon any damage you take setting up, and if Stealth Rock is on the field you're screwed. The only time Flare Blitz should ever be used is in conjunction with Roost, or if you are using Charizard X purely as a wall breaker, not a late game sweeper. Outrage has the obvious problem of locking you in against Faires or Steel types and the confusion can easily stop a sweep. The only time I would ever use it would be if I was using Charizard X as a wall breaker. So, because these moves have huge drawbacks, I opted out for Fire Punch and Dragon Claw. In the third slot I chose Thunder Punch as my coverage move over Earthquake because I find Azumarill a lot more annoying than Heatran and too many Heatran use Air Balloon anyways, making Earthquake useless. Thunder Punch also hits Mandibuzz, Mega Gyarados, and Togekiss slightly harder than anything else because I'm not using Flare Blitz or Outrage. Finally, I chose an Adamant nature over a Jolly for the additonal power and the loss of speed isnt too bad because Im going to be Dragon Dancing anyways. The only real drawbacks are being slower than scarfers such as Genesect and Kyurem-B. However, scarfed Kyurem-B is rare and scarfed Genesect can barely touch Charizard X anyways.

Here are two replays from today that show how good this set is at sweeping, in both of them Charizard X swept 6-0 on the OU ladder.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-85907450
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-85945341

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

In terms of sweeping with Charizard X, i think this is probably its best set:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Thunder Punch
- Dragon Dance

Dragon Dance is obvious, while the others are constantly debated. I dislike using either Flare Blitz or Outrage because they both have serious drawbacks that almost always prevent sweeping. Flare Blitz makes you very susceptible to priority, stacks upon any damage you take setting up, and if Stealth Rock is on the field you're screwed. The only time Flare Blitz should ever be used is in conjunction with Roost, or if you are using Charizard X purely as a wall breaker, not a late game sweeper. Outrage has the obvious problem of locking you in against Faires or Steel types and the confusion can easily stop a sweep. The only time I would ever use it would be if I was using Charizard X as a wall breaker. So, because these moves have huge drawbacks, I opted out for Fire Punch and Dragon Claw. In the third slot I chose Thunder Punch as my coverage move over Earthquake because I find Azumarill a lot more annoying than Heatran and too many Heatran use Air Balloon anyways, making Earthquake useless. Thunder Punch also hits Mandibuzz, Mega Gyarados, and Togekiss slightly harder than anything else because I'm not using Flare Blitz or Outrage. Finally, I chose an Adamant nature over a Jolly for the additonal power and the loss of speed isnt too bad because Im going to be Dragon Dancing anyways. The only real drawbacks are being slower than scarfers such as Genesect and Kyurem-B. However, scarfed Kyurem-B is rare and scarfed Genesect can barely touch Charizard X anyways.

Here are two replays from today that show how good this set is at sweeping, in both of them Charizard X swept 6-0 on the OU ladder.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-85907450
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-85945341

You only managed to sweep cause the guy with the Gliscor let you set up a second DD or Dragon Claw wouldn't have OHKO'd the Ttar (Ttar is rather common btw).

I guess it comes down to wanting to hit Ttar/Heatran over Azumarill/Gyrados, I feel like not running at least 1 120 BP STAB will hurt your sweeping prowess significantly though.

 

[aVocado]

MilkyWay01 late-game sweeping is better done by other Pokemon, really. The sheer power DD combined with Outrage and Flare Blitz is way too fucking much to simply ignore and use Fire Punch and Dragon Claw instead.

important calcs

Dragon Claw vs. Outrage:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 193-228 (63.4 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 288-340 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 180-213 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 270-318 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 283-334 (71.8 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 238-282 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 195-231 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 292-345 (68.8 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Fire Punch vs. Flare Blitz:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 438-516 (117.1 - 137.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 276-325 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 252-297 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And you said it yourself, using it late-game is key to any of CharX's DD sets. So you shouldn't be worried about Fairies or Steels cockblocking you from Outraging your way to victory, and even if they're not cleared, Flare Blitz still OHKOs all of them bar Azumarill.

CharX only needs 2 moves and those are Outrage and Flare Blitz. The other 2 are better filled with DD and Roost IMO, whether late-game sweeping or wallbreaking.

Also, 252 HP Tyranitar is OHKO'd by +1 Adamant Outrage. OHKO'd.

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 387-456 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 306-361 (80.1 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[jgj]

Is there a "best" spinner/defogger for Char X? I know Exca spins the most reliably but it compounds the weakness to bulky grounds and Azumarill. Defogging isn't the best since Char X benefits a lot from rocks that give it the ability to 2 hit walls or ensure OHKO's against offensive threats.

 

[LittleTLK]

Is there a "best" spinner/defogger for Char X? I know Exca spins the most reliably but it compounds the weakness to bulky grounds and Azumarill. Defogging isn't the best since Char X benefits a lot from rocks that give it the ability to 2 hit walls or ensure OHKO's against offensive threats.

Forretress comes to mind as a good spinner that can take on both of those things and still get off a spin.
Blastoise as well, I suppose.

 

[X5Dragon]

Mandibuzz, Lat@s and Skarmory are all consistent good defoggers.

 

[Zerox27]

Hey guys, I'm putting together my first competitive team and need someone to recommend a complete set for Charizard. I have Y but will trade for the X stone if I need to. I will be breeding my own so I don't want to waste time breeding the wrong moves or nature. Thanks.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Hey guys, I'm putting together my first competitive team and need someone to recommend a complete set for Charizard. I have Y but will trade for the X stone if I need to. I will be breeding my own so I don't want to waste time breeding the wrong moves or nature. Thanks.

This is more of a question suited for the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread, so if you need a answer to a more simplistic question, go there for future instances, but I'll answer your question regardless. The beauty of Charizard this Generation is the fact that it's two Mega Evolutions have very different roles and counters, so it really depends in what your team needs. Does it need a very potent Sweeper in Mega Charizard X or a very potent wallbreaker in Mega Charizard Y? Just make sure a way to remove hazards is present in your team, as both Zards hate Entry Hazards like the plague. There's also some variants in builds, such as Mega Charizard X going in a more Bulky Spread or the straight 252/252 Spread, but I'll give you two standard sets for the twin Zards:

Mega Charizard X @ Charizardite X
Adamant/Jolly 252 Attack EV's 252 Speed, 4 Def
Dragon Dance
Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw/Outrage
Earthquake/Roost

The slashes are for stuff that are both plausible on Zard X, some people prefer the sheer killing power of Outrage, while some prefer more longevity in Roost over EQ, and Adamant and Jolly is up to you, but I'm leaning more towards Jolly because of how crowded the base 100 Speed Tier is.

Mega Charizard Y @ Charizardite Y
Timid/Modest 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Def
Fire Blast
Solar Beam
Focus Blast
Roost/Dragon Pulse

Again the stuff here is pretty standard, Fire Blast is absolutely deadly in the sun backed by Y's 159 Sp. Atk, while Solar Beam is here to get past Bulky Water Pokemon that would otherwise give Zard Y trouble, while Focus Blast is here as Coverage. The last slot is up to you, but I'd prefer Roost as Y still retain's that x4 weakness to Stealth Rock and a way to recover a bit of hazard damage off makes me feel Roost is more important to Zard Y then Zard X, but again, using Dragon Pulse is still plausible.

As I've mentioned earlier, these two sets aren't the only way to use a MegaZard, they both have the ability to go Mixed, I've seen more Bulkier spreads with WoW, and some other things that I can't confirm or deny the effectiveness of due to my lack of experience with those sets such as Mega Bellyzard. But get creative, Zard has enough options and in a twist of fate the infamous Pokemon has become a fearsome Pokemon now in a very Rags to Riches style alongside stuff like Mawile and Pinsir, so hopefully this wall of text will answer your question well enough, I've always been bad at explaining things.

 

[Vengeance417]

I hate running outrage this gen though, as it makes you pure Aegislash fodder.

That's why you remove the threats, such as Aegislash like you said, and Fairies first with other Pokemon on your team, or even with your coverage moves on your Mega X, before using Outrage.

 

[mrglass]

That's why you remove the threats, such as Aegislash like you said, and Fairies first with other Pokemon on your team, or even with your coverage moves on your Mega X, before using Outrage.

But then, in the event you need Charizard and your opponent's Aegislash is still alive, you are stuck with either weaker coverage or redundant coverage if you choose run Dragon Claw as well.

I prefer to just stick with Dragon Claw and call it a day. Sure there have always been counters to Outrage, but with Aegislash you are basically handing your opponent the game, giving it a chance to set up SD and completely neuter you.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Almost every time, I'd go with Dragon Claw. A Charizard with outrage has 2 advantages, slightly better late game sweeper, and it is an effective fairy/steel lure. Outrage limits early and mid game usage far too much though. If your team specifically needs a late game sweeper, then outrage will come in handy, but the boost is outweighed by the limitations of early game.

 

[aVocado]

The "limitations" early/mid-game are situational. Not every team has a Fairy, and Aegislash is neutered by Flare Blitz. King's Shield mindgames are 50/50 for either side.

Outrage is way too good and Dragon Claw shouldn't even be slashed. It's like using HP Ghost on Aegislash when you can have Shadow Ball instead; yes I know about Outrage's side-effects compared to Shadow Ball's, but the power boost is that big.

OHKOing Tyranitar and Rotom-W at +1 (adamant) is good enough reason to use it over Dragon Claw.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

The "limitations" early/mid-game are situational. Not every team has a Fairy, and Aegislash is neutered by Flare Blitz. King's Shield mindgames are 50/50 for either side.

Outrage is way too good and Dragon Claw shouldn't even be slashed. It's like using HP Ghost on Aegislash when you can have Shadow Ball instead; yes I know about Outrage's side-effects compared to Shadow Ball's, but the power boost is that big.

OHKOing Tyranitar and Rotom-W at +1 (adamant) is good enough reason to use it over Dragon Claw.

No, not all teams have a fairy, but almost every team I've fought has at least one, if not more steel type. Giving MLucario or Scizor easy turns is never a good idea. Plus, since I'm not sure you understand this, using outrage while Aegislash is still alive is a guaranteed -2 atk because you'll be locked in. It's like why nobody ever runs hyper beam, it gives your opponent way too much free space to make you hate life.

Bringing up HP ghost and shadow ball is bull, outrage is the situational move move. Not being able to use your dragon move because there's a fairy or steel still alive? Why would you want to do that?

Just as a side note, Ttar isn't a guarenteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 387-456 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I'm not saying outrage is unusable, but Dragon Claw is the more consistent option. Unless you want something specific, I don't suggest using outrage. Removing the dragon claw slash is simply not a good idea.

 

[aVocado]

No, not all teams have a fairy, but almost every team I've fought has at least one, if not more steel type. Giving MLucario or Scizor easy turns is never a good idea. Plus, since I'm not sure you understand this, using outrage while Aegislash is still alive is a guaranteed -2 atk because you'll be locked in. It's like why nobody ever runs hyper beam, it gives your opponent way too much free space to make you hate life.

Bringing up HP ghost and shadow ball is bull, outrage is the situational move move. Not being able to use your dragon move because there's a fairy or steel still alive? Why would you want to do that?

Just as a side note, Ttar isn't a guarenteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 387-456 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I'm not saying outrage is unusable, but Dragon Claw is the more consistent option. Unless you want something specific, I don't suggest using outrage. Removing the dragon claw slash is simply not a good idea.

Scizor can't do shit and sooner or later will die to Flare Blitz. As for Mega Lucario, who will sooner or later get banned:

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 233-275 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I highly doubt 83% minimum is considered an easy turn. Unboosted CC in return does (87.2 - 102.6%), which is a lot I admit, yeah.

And here's for Lucario, in case you bring up the fact that regular Luke will stay OU:

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 281-331 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I already stated in my post that the fact that Aegislash is present creates a 50/50 situation that could work for either sides. He could go for KS first turn, or he could predict the opponent to set-up predicting a KS and attack instead of going for KS.

And a 3/4 chance to OHKO Tyranitar, a very common switch-in to pre-mega Charizard, is a pretty sweet chance.

 

[LoDart210]

I like both evos so much, but I find myself unable to use char x as opposed to char y.

I never seem to fulfill x's potential.
Someone tell me what's wrong win me I really want to use this guy successfully

 

[aVocado]

I like both evos so much, but I find myself unable to use char x as opposed to char y.

I never seem to fulfill x's potential.
Someone tell me what's wrong win me I really want to use this guy successfully

It happens. I never managed to use Dragon Dance Gyarados or Dragonite myself. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but they never work for me.

But for CharX? It's so easy to use, it's ridiculous. Use DD/Flare Blitz/Outrage/Earthquake or Roost and bring it out when Aegislash is weakened to the point where +1 EQ will finish it off, and then nothing will stop your sweep.

Just set up DD and click the appropriate move, that's it. Keeping SR will ensure some important OHKOs if you're running jolly.

 

[Draco Meteora]

(Charizard) (M) @ Charizardite Y
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Overheat
- Dragon Dance

This set is insane but works very well, can break walls easily, after a Dragon Dance not even Zard-Y checks are safe.

4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T in Sun: 378-445 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias in Sun: 225-266 (74.5 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 588-692 (152.3 - 179.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra in Sun: 277-327 (72.1 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 216 Def Rotom-W in Sun: 161-189 (52.9 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Rotom-W in Sun: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[LoDart210]

It happens. I never managed to use Dragon Dance Gyarados or Dragonite myself. I don't know what I'm doing, but they never work for me.

But for CharX? It's so easy to use, it's ridiculous. Use DD/Flare Blitz/Outrage/Earthquake or Roost and bring it out when Aegislash is weakened to the point where +1 EQ will finish it off, and then nothing will stop your sweep.

Just set up DD and click the appropriate move, that's it. Keeping SR will ensure some important OHKOs if you're running jolly.

I think my problem is with char x I don't know how to fit it into a team. For some reason, I pair it with Pokemon that will cover its weaknesses but it just feels weird...

Thanks for the advice though, I'm determined to give it another shot.

(Also, as for dragonite, if dragon dance isn't your style, lead band dragonite is awesome)

 

[mrglass]

I already stated in my post that the fact that Aegislash is present creates a 50/50 situation that could work for either sides. He could go for KS first turn, or he could predict the opponent to set-up predicting a KS and attack instead of going for KS.

But that's not the concerning scenario with Aegislash. The concern is in the event you start using Outrage. Aegislash can switch in with minimal damage. KS to cripple you, then start setting up

(Charizard) (M) @ Charizardite Y
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Overheat
- Dragon Dance

This set is insane but works very well, can break walls easily, after a Dragon Dance not even Zard-Y checks are safe.

But I feel like it misses out on the main selling point of Zard Y, which is auto-sun. If you have to set up and you can't run SolarBeam, Drought isn't used very well.

 

[MilkyWay]

No, not all teams have a fairy, but almost every team I've fought has at least one, if not more steel type. Giving MLucario or Scizor easy turns is never a good idea. Plus, since I'm not sure you understand this, using outrage while Aegislash is still alive is a guaranteed -2 atk because you'll be locked in. It's like why nobody ever runs hyper beam, it gives your opponent way too much free space to make you hate life.

Bringing up HP ghost and shadow ball is bull, outrage is the situational move move. Not being able to use your dragon move because there's a fairy or steel still alive? Why would you want to do that?

Just as a side note, Ttar isn't a guarenteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 387-456 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I'm not saying outrage is unusable, but Dragon Claw is the more consistent option. Unless you want something specific, I don't suggest using outrage. Removing the dragon claw slash is simply not a good idea.

How I see the Dragon Claw vs. Outrage scenario is that Outrage is better for late game sweeping while Dragon cCaw is obviously more consistent. Ive actually tried running both alongside Dragon Dance and Fire Punch and it works pretty well. Outrage allows you to muscle through crap like Rotom-W, Tyranitar, Mandibuzz, Conkeldurr, Landorus-T, and others at +1. This make it superior to coverage moves such as Earthquake or Thunder Punch in my opinion because they only hit one or two specific targets. Dragon Claw is nice when I dragon dance as they switch into something like Latias or Garchomp and it also nets me KOs without locking me into something. I also go with an Adamant nature because Im dragon dancing anyway and the only notable thing Im slower than at +1 with Adamant instead of Jolly is scarfed Genesect, which cant touch Charizard X anyways. I chose Fire Punch over Flare Blitz because the recoil is unbearable to me and Fire Punch or Outrage will OHKO anything that Flare Blitz can anways besides Togekiss.

 

[Draco Meteora]

But that's not the concerning scenario with Aegislash. The concern is in the event you start using Outrage. Aegislash can switch in with minimal damage. KS to cripple you, then start setting up


But I feel like it misses out on the main selling point of Zard Y, which is auto-sun. If you have to set up and you can't run SolarBeam, Drought isn't used very well.

Yeah, but Solarbeam with this set isn't strong enough, Drought is used very well boosting Flare Blitz and Overheart, Flare hits harder than Zard-X, it's a weird set but If you use correctly can take down 1-2 opposing Pokémon easily.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Char-X is quite the menace, and probably the most effective Dragon Dancer in OU (sorry TTar). Even once he's revealed, your opponent will have to guess if you're offensive or bulky, and whether you're carrying EQ, Roost, or even WoW. I've tried all of its different sets, and to me the most effective is a bulky DD set with Roost and 2 STAB options. Obviously whether you want Fire Punch/Flare Blitz or Dragon Claw/Outrage is up to you, but it's usually a good idea to keep one of your options drawback-free for taking care of weaker threats without killing yourself.

 

[X5Dragon]

I cleaned the CharX section at the OP and moved everything else into Hide tags, but I am still waiting for the discussion on Mixed CharY/DD-Y to settle before cleaning up the Y section as well.

 

[Dododoggy]

I have a quick question. Is it worth it to run EQ on chariard Y so your not walled by heatran?

 

[aVocado]

I have a quick question. Is it worth it to run EQ on chariard Y so your not walled by heatran?

yes