It works, Zard Y has a good 104 Attack to make use of, but if your using DDance just for the Speed Boost I'd probably prefer Flame Charge to break Sashes while still getting Speed Buffs from it. Basically, Dragon Dance Zard Y works, but there's other ways of increasing you're speed if you only want the Speed Buff for Zard Y.
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Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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It works, Zard Y has a good 104 Attack to make use of, but if your using DDance just for the Speed Boost I'd probably prefer Flame Charge to break Sashes while still getting Speed Buffs from it. Basically, Dragon Dance Zard Y works, but there's other ways of increasing you're speed if you only want the Speed Buff for Zard Y.
Hmm I'm considering changing mine from Hasty, to Lonely like yours. What threats do you find to be an issue outspeeding you (that you think you'd be able to take down if you were Hasty)?I've been running a fairly similar build
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 204 Atk / 52 SAtk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Solar Beam
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
This set mostly focused purely on smashing stall and luring in chansey for the guaranteed 2HKO without rocks. With rocks can secure a couple more 2HKOs on "counters" to zard y like goodra and latias (although latias can outspeeds and heal but it is forced to recover giving opportunity to go to a trapper). Even with minor special attack investment zard-y hits like a truck against most unresistant mons like lando and gliscor. Been using this alongside RP lando who really likes the sun weakening water moves for setup opportunity and really appreciates the removal of or at least severe weakening of mons like chansey and stall over all.
Off the top of my head, threats within 300-328 Speed are:
Max+ Speed Kyurem-B (important)
Max+ Speed Excadrill (important)
Max+ Speed Landorus-T (not common)
Neutral Max Speed Garchomp (not common)
And the base 100s of course, but you Speed tie with them depending on nature.
![v4.png.v[1].png](/forums/data/attachments/9/9267-ea071b10855fb9504ffeeed9b183fff3.jpg?hash=6gcbEIVfuV)
It's not a HORRIBLE option, but Dragon Dance+ Flare Blitz/Fire Punch is generally the better option. Mega Zard Y generally runs Flame Charge over X.
Most Kyurem-B run +SpA natures nowadays, I don't think I've seen a single +Spe Cube tbh. The only Landorus-T that run a +Spe nature are scarfed ones, that will outspeed you anyway. Garchomp always run +Spe. The only Pokémon among those you listed that has a good chance of running a +Spe nature is Excadrill, but your opponent will resort to it in order to revenge kill Charizard only if they're really desperate (since Charizard itself usually runs +Spe natures) or if the Excadrill is scarfed (which again means it will outspeed you regardless of what nature you're running).
That mixed Char-Y set seems good on paper, although I'd never try to flare blitz a Chansey/Blissey since, if you manage to 2hko it, the recoil will almost kill you in return.
I'm pretty sure you know this but Dugtrio only traps X after mega evolving, and most competant players will be knowing their speed tiers.
It"s too bad Goth doesn"t learn Rock Gem or something.
Thanks for reminding me, I need to add gravity somewhere on my team.
Garchomp has two more speed points than Charizard and can do serious damage with Dragon Claw or Outrage.
Also, a wide range of special attackers, such as Gengar, Alakazam and Lati@s also threaten to outspeed and do massive damage to Mega X due to its low SpDef stat.
The best I could make was 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe Adamant. This lets you outspeed Scarf Lati@s after two DDs. 192 HP / 4 Def / 252 Atk / 60 Spe Adamant lets you outspeed Scarf Chomp after two DDs.
thanks for the replies. I think 144 hp is plenty considering he doesn't need a whole lot of speed to outspeed non speed invested things.
oddly enough, not seeing a whole lot of scarfchomp lately...
Single bad 4X Weaknesses aren't a problem for Scizor or Ferrothorn. Also, consider that both Talonflame and Volcarona run bulky sets, and they have the same or worse defensive typings. Zard Y actually has the same number of weaknesses as Zard X w/o drought (and Zard X's weaknesses are pretty common as well), but at the same time has 6 resistances and an immunity.
I think one of the reasons we aren't seeing Bulky Zard Y is mostly because people haven't tried it. I've been wanting to give it a spin, but I haven't gotten around to it, and I don't know what sort of team it would be good on.
The spread I'm using for my Adamant CharX is 196 Speed and the rest dumped in known places. I sped crept the Jolly Mamo's (80), and up to base 91 full speed evs without a boosting nature. I guess it depends on how you built your team really.
I think I would go with Max HP/Max Speed Bulky Charizard Y. His base speed is just good enough to burn slower physical attackers like Bisharp/Mamoswine with WoW and his special bulk is pretty good even without investing heavily in special defense (115 is pretty good number) so he should still be able to check grass, fairy and water types (something that Moltres can't do as Fire Bird doesn't have drought to nullify water weakness). Fire/Fighting typing is interesting defensively (as long as you keep SR out of field) as it has resistances on both physical (Fighting, Steel, Bug) and special side (Grass, with Drought neutral to Water, neutral to Ice, Fairy, Steel, etc.) so he can work like a mixed tank (as he should hurt like hell even without investment). If I wanted more bulky version, I think I would go with special defense investment. But IMO Max HP should be just enough. Of course this is pure theorymon, but on paper it's not looking bad. Fire Blast or Flamethrower / Will-O-Wisp / Roost / Filler should do the trick.
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Guys correct me if I am wrong but is it possible zard Y finally has a full counter in mega latias?
Pretty much. The best Charizard-Y can do is Dragon Pulse which can't 2HKO 252/0 Mega Latias.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 412-488 (138.2 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While it OHKO it's not viable just to kill Talon, Air Slashing gives
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 193-228 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I still would not recommend it as having a move to counter a Poke seems wasteful
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252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 212-250 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So still a 2HKO but does more damage
I think Tyranitar is a very good Pokemon to counter all three of them. Ttar brings Sand to hardwall Y, is not 1hkoed by any of X's attacks, and resists both of Talon's Stabs. It also counters Mega Pinsir so I predict an increase in Ttar's usage, especially with Mega Luc getting banned.
I have a tyranitar and he does all of that but to many times have I had charizard vs talonflame and I get KO'd every time. I did the calcs and ancient power 2 hit KO for X and there's a 50% chance to kill Y while not reliable still better the fire blast
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M Latias won't be in OU for long.
The thing is that Talonflame gets priority, so it can 2HKO Megazard Y before Megazard Y can 2HKO it. Ancient Power is a good workaround to this so you don't have to switch every time Talonflame revenges
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 262-310 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 400-472 (134.2 - 158.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Problem solved, now we just have to get in with 100% hp
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