Metagame Chimera 1v1

Found another bug.
If you have two mimikyus on your team so you can have disguise on mimikyu. Disguise will not work even though your Pokemon you have is a mimikyu.
This is due to disguise only working if speciesid is 'mimikyu' or 'mimikyutotem ' and the chimera metagame adding chimera to the end speciesid.

Also the HP bug still exists as described earlier in the thread but I have no idea why it happens.
 
Red Poweranger said:
Found another bug.
If you have two mimikyus on your team so you can have disguise on mimikyu. Disguise will not work even though your Pokemon you have is a mimikyu.
This is due to disguise only working if speciesid is 'mimikyu' or 'mimikyutotem ' and the chimera metagame adding chimera to the end speciesid.

Also the HP bug still exists as described earlier in the thread but I have no idea why it happens.
Click to expand...
Q: What about in-battle forms that don't require items, like Mega Rayquaza or Disguise Mimikyu?
A: No additional form changes should take place in-battle
 
Teambuilding is such a complicated mess... I love it.

I had some decent results with a team built around my first thought ("Oh, 1v1... There will be sturdy everywhere... Let's use some Skill Link stuffs..."). I struggled against stall and normalize, but I think I now have some ways to deal with it :
marowak-alola.gif
cinccino.gif
slaking.gif
cloyster.gif
scolipede.gif
piloswine.gif


Piloswine @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def
Brave Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Substitute
- Protect
- Curse

Scolipede @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rest
- Pin Missile
- Substitute
- Endeavor

Cinccino @ Eviolite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Bullet Seed
- Tail Slap
- Rock Blast

Slaking @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Slack Off
- Taunt
- Encore
- Earthquake

Cloyster @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
- Rapid Spin

Marowak-Alola @ King's Rock
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Atk / 16 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Thrash
- Bone Rush
- Flare Blitz

Pilo-Scol-Cin-Slak-Cloy-Maro (Skill Link) :
460 Atk - 448 Speed (ChoiceS) - Icicle Spear - Rock Blast - Bone Rush - Flare Blitz

Pilo-Slak-Cin-Scol-Cloy-Maro (Skill Link) :
299 Atk - 532 Speed (ChoiceS) // Icicle Spear - Rock Blast - Bone Rush - Flare Blitz

Cin-Pilo-Scol-Slak-Maro-Cloy (Speed Boost) :
690 Atk (ChoiceB) - 299 Speed // Thrash - Earthquake - Razor Shell - (Rapid Spin)

A normalize answer's + might also work against some stall :
Maro-Cloy-Scol-Cin-Slak-Pilo (Speed Boost) :
Slack Off - Taunt - Curse - Protect

Might work against some stall (Poison type + Slack off + Rapid Spin for PP stall) :
Scol-Cin-Pilo-Maro-Slak-Cloy (Oblivious) :
Slack Off - Taunt - Razor Shell - Rapid spin

Piloswine-Cinccino-Cloyster-Slaking-Scolipede-Marowak :
Eviolite - Skill Link - 441-236-167 bulk before eviolite boost - 460 Atk - 299 Speed
Rest - Pin Missile/Sleep Talk - Bone Rush - Flare blitz

Slaking-Marowak-Cloyster-Scolipede-Piloswine-Cinccino :
King's Rock - Skill Link - 299 Atk - 355 Speed
Icicle Spear - Substitute - Tail Salp - Rock Blast

Piloswine-Marowak-Cinccino-Scolipede-Cloyster-Slaking :
King's Rock - Skill Link - 299 Atk - 355 Speed
Icicle Spear - Rock Blast - Encore - Earthquake

Piloswine-Marowak-Cinccino-Slaking-Cloyster-Scolipede :
King's Rock - Skill Link - 460 Atk - 299 Speed
Icicle Spear - Rock Blast - Substitute - Endeavor

Piloswine-Marowak-Cloyster-Slaking-Scolipede-Cinccino :
King's Rock - Skill Link - 460 Atk - 299 Speed
Rest - Pin Missile/Sleep Talk - Tail Slap - Rock Blast
 
ChrystalFalchion said:
I'd like to build a team around Shell Smash, but I'm really struggling. I'm having to unlearn just about everything I've leared about teambuilding and I'm finding it tricky. Any tips?
Click to expand...

Shell Smash works pretty much only in conjunction with Sturdy. I originally based mine on Elo's mixed Z-move Carracosta with both phys/spec STABs, but realized later that you usually don't need both in one set as you can guess which one to take in preview (and Z-Screens are never used). It's pretty effective because it allows you to scout using Sturdy, and after Shell Smash Z-Prismatic Laser or equivalent outspeeds and kills generic attackers. Pairing it with Psychic Terrain and Endure Custap options helps to alleviate some weaknesses.

By the way it seems like Necrozma-DM and Necrozma-DW are able to ultra burst in this meta as long as the originals in teambuilder are holding Ultranecrozium Z, which also allows Ultra Necrozma to hold an item. I haven't tested whether it's still able to Z-move with another item however (also whether Ultra Burst or an actual Z Crystal item it holds takes priority). Also not sure where the stats come from yet, but I'm assuming this will get fixed anyway.

E: Tested it, Ultra Necro can't use Light That Burns the Sky without the chimera also holding Ultranecrozium Z. Unfort!
 
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My best team so far.

Araquanid @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Toxic
- Rest
- Liquidation
- Substitute

water bubble is so strong. X2 water on top of 1.5 stab


Crawdaunt @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Crabhammer
- Substitute

adaptability, water type, anti stall moves


Rayquaza @ Waterium Z
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- V-create
- Aqua Tail
- Substitute

aqua tail provides power physical water move with water bubble, ray can also be used for stats if requiring extra bulk than deoxys

Reshiram @ Waterium Z
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Outrage
- Substitute

V-create+outrage from ray, turboblaze is great for anti magicbounce/sturdy/multiscale

Deoxys-Attack @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Toxic

Hyper offense stats outspeed and kill everything, or moveset doubles up as anti stall.

Jellicent @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Taunt
- Waterfall

jellicent typing blocks fake out/extreme speed provides a water type to work with water bubble.
 
ChrystalFalchion said:
I'd like to build a team around Shell Smash, but I'm really struggling. I'm having to unlearn just about everything I've leared about teambuilding and I'm finding it tricky. Any tips?
Click to expand...
When you start with an idea of an ability/move to center around, choose a user that has a good typing. For example, Cloyster is Water/Ice, and those two typings have good Ubers mons (Kyogre, Palkia, Kyu-B/W), and its STAB has good synergy. Shuckle and Barbaracle are also good options for their good ability, but I dislike their Rock typing because there aren't many good Rock-types to donate stats.

Next, I try to think about other good typings to use. Electric stands out because of BoltBeam, and Dragon does as well because both Palkia and the Kyurem formes are Dragon-type. Now that I have a typing plan, I find Pokemon to use.
Water/Electric: Lanturn/Rotom-Wash (I already use Rotom-Frost)
Electric/Dragon: Zekrom
Ice/Dragon: Kyurem-Black/Kyurem-White (I want to abuse Zekrom's Bolt Strike better)
Water/Dragon: Palkia/Kingdra (better stats and coverage)
Water/Ice: Cloyster
Ice/Electric: Rotom-Frost

Then, I designate the original fusion idea:
Lanturn @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (150/100 special offense)
Naive Nature (because of the nature bug, which will hopefully be fixed soon; Naive raises Speed while not decreasing either Attack; -SpD to not be more vulnerable to physical priority)
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard

Next, I look at what other kinds of sets I should have. A physical Shell Smash set should work:
Lanturn @ Electrium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe (170/120/95 offenses)
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage

Next, a stall set:
Palkia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (120/90 defenses)
Jolly Nature (you’ll see why below)
- Roost
- Noble Roar
- Iron Defense
- Clamp

Choiced sets:
Palkia @ Choice Band
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (150/100 special offense)
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Sucker Punch
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (150/100 special offense)
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

And one to beat Chansey teams:
Lanturn @ Choice Specs
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Trick
- Pain Split
- Toxic
- Substitute

I’m sure I thought up more sets, but I’m on mobile at the moment and it’s hard to find the sets just looking at the importable.

Speaking of the importable, here it is:
Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP
Naive Nature
- Waterfall
- Sucker Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Zekrom @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage

Kyurem-Black @ Waterium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Noble Roar
- Toxic
- Substitute

Palkia @ Electrium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Avalanche
- Liquidation
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt

Cloyster @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Iron Defense
- Clamp

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Pain Split
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard

antsdownmypants said:
My best team so far.
Click to expand...
Looks okay, but you haven’t specified how to order the mons for the sets.
 
Hello, i have noticed a glitch with Genesect within this meta (And another glitch from Groudon, which seems to already be known). It seems that every time i enter battle it appears to the user as if their pokemon is using Download, even though it's apparently only seen by myself and likely due to the fact i have Genesect as my 1st pokemon. The Groudon glitch is that Groudon can use Drought along with whatever ability it's given by this meta.

Replays fail to show the Genesect glitch, so i shall instead provide screenshot evidence.

In this screenshot, i note the Groudon glitch paired with the Genesect glitch, appearing as if the Groudon involved has Drought, Protean, AND Download. I also note the opposing team does not have Genesect. https://prnt.sc/mssi6c

This is the replay of the battle, but as i said it fails to show the Genesect glitch properly. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-870680283
 
SaplingArcher said:
Hello, i have noticed a glitch with Genesect within this meta (And another glitch from Groudon, which seems to already be known). It seems that every time i enter battle it appears to the user as if their pokemon is using Download, even though it's apparently only seen by myself and likely due to the fact i have Genesect as my 1st pokemon. The Groudon glitch is that Groudon can use Drought along with whatever ability it's given by this meta.

Replays fail to show the Genesect glitch, so i shall instead provide screenshot evidence.

In this screenshot, i note the Groudon glitch paired with the Genesect glitch, appearing as if the Groudon involved has Drought, Protean, AND Download. I also note the opposing team does not have Genesect. https://prnt.sc/mssi6c

This is the replay of the battle, but as i said it fails to show the Genesect glitch properly. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-870680283
Click to expand...
The glitch with groudon is a known bug already, and it is being fixed currently. I haven't heard of the genesect one tho, although it looks like it had no impact on the battle, so it shouldn't be a problem anyway
 
So I had a go at building a team using Quiver Dance. It's been much better than I thought it would be so far.

Here's the team:

pheromosa.gif
lunala.gif
tapulele.gif
reshiram.gif
dialga.gif
swoobat.gif

Pheromosa @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Toxic

Lunala @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Focus Blast
- Moonblast
- Psyshock

Tapu Lele @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Reshiram @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Roost
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor

Dialga @ Psychium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Roar of Time
- Fire Blast

Swoobat @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball

I started with Pheromosa as it has the best stats of all Quiver Dances - it donates epic speed (fuck you Deoxys-A) and high attacking stats. I went with Lunala next, as it has a great movepool and can take advantage of both Quiver Dance and Psychic Terrain. It can also donate Shadow Shield which is super helpful in a meta without hazards. Next up is Tapu Lele - it needs no introduction. I seriously think Psychic Terrain might be broken. Reshiram brings great offensive typing and uses Quiver Dance very well. It also donates Turboblaze. Dialga is next - it brings excellent coverage and great typing. Lastly is Swoobat - it brings coverage for Lunala, boosting and Simple. I might swap Swoobat out for Landorus-I or Persian Alola though.

Combos (there are probably more, but I couldn't think of any at the time).

Replays:
Simple Quiver Dance
Fast Dragon
Fast Specs Lunala
Psychic Terrain Quiver Dance
 
ChrystalFalchion said:
So I had a go at building a team using Quiver Dance. It's been much better than I thought it would be so far.

Here's the team:

pheromosa.gif
lunala.gif
tapulele.gif
reshiram.gif
dialga.gif
swoobat.gif

Pheromosa @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Toxic

Lunala @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Focus Blast
- Moonblast
- Psyshock

Tapu Lele @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Reshiram @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Roost
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor

Dialga @ Psychium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Roar of Time
- Fire Blast

Swoobat @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball

I started with Pheromosa as it has the best stats of all Quiver Dances - it donates epic speed (fuck you Deoxys-A) and high attacking stats. I went with Lunala next, as it has a great movepool and can take advantage of both Quiver Dance and Psychic Terrain. It can also donate Shadow Shield which is super helpful in a meta without hazards. Next up is Tapu Lele - it needs no introduction. I seriously think Psychic Terrain might be broken. Reshiram brings great offensive typing and uses Quiver Dance very well. It also donates Turboblaze. Dialga is next - it brings excellent coverage and great typing. Lastly is Swoobat - it brings coverage for Lunala, boosting and Simple. I might swap Swoobat out for Landorus-I or Persian Alola though.

Combos (there are probably more, but I couldn't think of any at the time).

Replays:
Simple Quiver Dance
Fast Dragon
Fast Specs Lunala
Psychic Terrain Quiver Dance
Click to expand...
Isn't Swoobat supposed to be banned? I'm pretty sure it was on ROM
 
Gravity Monkey said:
Isn't Swoobat supposed to be banned? I'm pretty sure it was on ROM
Click to expand...

Wasn't when I played earlier.

Honestly in reality though it's not as threatening as it seems on paper. Set up in general is quite tricky in this meta, as everything can hit so hard. Set up sweepers in my experience get more mileage from abilities liek Sturdy, Shadow Shield or Multiscale.
 
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Could anyone inform me on how this meta currently works? I'd like to try it but I can't seem to keep track of the bugs and bans. Is the hp still taken from the lead or has this been fixed? I guess it's been fixed because I no longer see Chansey leads. Same for the nature? Which mons cause bugs? Do megas work? I noticed someone using primal reversion so I figured megas might work too. Also, does inherenting Multitype from Arceus allow you to use a plate or would the plates just give a 20% boost? Can chimeras inheriting Multitype have their item stolen? Any other interesting bug/feature?
 
Oublié said:
Could anyone inform me on how this meta currently works? I'd like to try it but I can't seem to keep track of the bugs and bans. Is the hp still taken from the lead or has this been fixed? I guess it's been fixed because I no longer see Chansey leads. Same for the nature?
Click to expand...
All bugs should be fixed: HP and nature comes from 4th Pokemon.

Oublié said:
Do megas work? I noticed someone using primal reversion so I figured megas might work too.
Click to expand...
Mega Stones are banned, and Primals should too.

Oublié said:
Also, does inherenting Multitype from Arceus allow you to use a plate or would the plates just give a 20% boost?
Click to expand...
If you want a plate, you put a plate on the 2nd mon. Multitype only works on Arceus, but is useful against Normalize.

Oublié said:
Can chimeras inheriting Multitype have their item stolen?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
Anaconja said:
Mega Stones are banned, and Primals should too.
Click to expand...
May I ask why all Megas are banned?
I wouldn't think it would be too bad of an idea having megas avaliable (just having them replace the stats/abilities after mega evolution with the original, requiring the original species with said stone to do so).

Understandable for some, but I made a whole team which utilized having a Mega Swampert so kinda disappointing that I have to scrap it because of that. (Note : you should probably update that in the Q&A too)
 
Hey, I'm finding a very toxic combination where a player uses a ghost-type 1st slot, then has the ability normalize and the move skill swap at a high speed, essentially disbling the opponent. It makes games not fun, and not winnable against it. I think the ability needs a ban, where other abilities might be fun with skill swap, this just isn't, so I think the ability should go
 
SmartTJ said:
Hey, I'm finding a very toxic combination where a player uses a ghost-type 1st slot, then has the ability normalize and the move skill swap at a high speed, essentially disbling the opponent. It makes games not fun, and not winnable against it. I think the ability needs a ban, where other abilities might be fun with skill swap, this just isn't, so I think the ability should go
Click to expand...
As soon as you see a delcatty in the opponent team, you should bring in a fusion with a Z-Crystal. This counter doesn't take much ressources either since you can still build pretty much any team around that.
 
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SmartTJ said:
Hey, I'm finding a very toxic combination where a player uses a ghost-type 1st slot, then has the ability normalize and the move skill swap at a high speed, essentially disbling the opponent. It makes games not fun, and not winnable against it. I think the ability needs a ban, where other abilities might be fun with skill swap, this just isn't, so I think the ability should go
Click to expand...
Hey there a few things you can do to counter. The easiest one is arceus multitype as this cannot be swapped or entrained. arceus has great stats and fits onto most teams. the second is outspeeding and killing/taunting (watch out for mental herb). IF they are using de-oxys and are super fast, they are very weak and priority should pick them off.
I dont nesscicarily think its broken as they have to commit half their team to make it, its obvious on team preview and its blocked relatively easy. You just have to prepare for it yourself.
 
It still requires commitment to fight one specific type of opponent which disables some freedom in creation. Also, if you are not prepared, you literally have no ability to win, and it is not fun to play either as or against it. Third, even with priority moves, you might not be able to win, as any priority moves have to be able to one-hit KO the opponent, and there are several type combinations that they can use, meaning less freedom in creation, etc. Overall, I still feels that this combination is toxic, and should not be in the meta, especially because it lessens the freedom in building your own personal Chimera, which seems like the greatest reason why to play this mode, and as soon as some of it is removed, it becomes less fun for anyone to play.
 
SmartTJ said:
It still requires commitment to fight one specific type of opponent which disables some freedom in creation.
Click to expand...
That commitment isn't all that niche - Z-Moves are a big thing in 1v1 (and Chimera 1v1) to OHKO things that would be 2HKOd by regular moves.
SmartTJ said:
Also, if you are not prepared, you literally have no ability to win, and it is not fun to play either as or against it.
Click to expand...
It's easy to prepare for Normalize the minute you see Delcatty/Skitty with a Ghost-type.
SmartTJ said:
Third, even with priority moves, you might not be able to win, as any priority moves have to be able to one-hit KO the opponent, and there are several type combinations that they can use, meaning less freedom in creation, etc.
Click to expand...
Priority moves can work if it's FakeSpeed with -ate, since Normalize mons usually use Deoxys-Speed as their stats and 50/95 bulk is pretty terrible.

While I don't feel that Normalize is overpowered, what I think is overpowered is Truant. It can't necessarily be bypassed by Z-Moves, and basically the only counters are having Protect (which is much less viable than a Z-Move), OHKOing on the Skill Swap (which is hard to do if they have something like Giratina as stats), and Taunt (which has pretty low distribution). Should it be quickbanned, suspected, or left alone?
 
on the topic of normalize/truant + skill swap, there are a few other things that can work. Firstly, no matter whether you have normalize or not, hidden power and revelation dance (and maybe judgement too if you have the plate?) are unaffected, meaning you can still hit those ghost types. Also using an ability that can't be skill swapped basically throws these strategies to the curb. I simply use a komala for comatose which can't be swapped, with a set of taunt/toxic/roost(or recover)/hidden power (dark for normalize, fire for truant since they normally go with steel types for this strategy)
 
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