Cinccino

[SupremeDirt]

Ambipom outclasses this.

No, but seriously, Skill Link is currently illegal, so I've been using a Technician set.

Wake Up Slap is handy for Tyranitar who thinks it can laugh at you.

 

[Twins]

Why did Gamefreak creat an exact clone of Ambipom in rodent form? That said, this is way better than Raticate, Furret, and Linoone.

 

[Green Thunder]

Why did Gamefreak creat an exact clone of Ambipom in rodent form? That said, this is way better than Raticate, Furret, and Linoone.

They aren't clones they both have a couple of different things that akes them unique. And how dare u compare chillachino to those peasants that dare to call themselves "normal types" tsk tsk tsk..

 

[chocolate-kipp]

I love this guy so fucking much.

Here's what I have to say about Ambipom and Chilachino being the same: How? Yes, they're both normal-types, but they fulfill very different roles. One is intended to be a Fake Out Lead or a Baton Passer, whereas the other one abuses two of his abilities, Technician and Skill Link, to the fullest. Sure, Ambipom has Technician, but the only attack he can use to take advantage of it is Fake Out, whereas Chilachino gets a variety of multi-hit moves boosted by Technician, providing much better coverage. Ambipom's Attack may be higher, but only by five base points, and Chilachino still makes up for it with nice coverage (and cuteness, but that's beside the point). Chilachino also has higher defenses.

Overall, I consider them very different, but both are useful in their own different roles.

 

[Green Thunder]

^
Chillachino 75/60/60
Ambipom: 75/66/66

It's a shame that almost all it's stats are lower(it's special attack is a whooping 5 points higher though!)...it's cuteness makes up for It though.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

^
Chillachino 75/60/60
Ambipom: 75/66/66

It's a shame that almost all it's stats are lower(it's special attack is a whooping 5 points higher though!)...it's cuteness makes up for It though.

The stats differences are easily negligible. Chillachiino can serve a different role than Ambipom with the reasons explained in the previous pages.

 

[Celest]

I get the feeling that people who keep yelling "OMG IT'S A WORSE AMBIPOM" have yet to try this pokemon at all. It's all about that coverage. He can hit a lot of problem pokes a LOT better than UtterMonkey. Multi-Scale Dragonite giving you trouble? The first hit of Rock Blast takes care of that. Swampert will never survive against you. Burungeru doesn't want to get hit by Bullet Seed either. What can Ambi do to that? Nobody runs ThunderPunch. Shandera gets owned by Rock Blast, and if you find SubCalmMind variant, you break the sub and kill it. Erufuun? Better run.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Slightly]

Don't know if it's been said, but imagine it's use in a double battle. Give it skill link and pair it with a herbivore ally. Bullet seed will hit your herbivore ally 5 times, ie a +5 boost, with only one turn of set up.
Add this to the fact it has 115 base speed any ally slower then it can hit +5 on their first attack.

Unless I'm missing something important here, this seems pretty powerful.

 

[Stellar]

Herbivore only gets a +1 boost from Bullet Seed.

 

[Raptorg]

Don't know if it's been said, but imagine it's use in a double battle. Give it skill link and pair it with a herbivore ally. Bullet seed will hit your herbivore ally 5 times, ie a +5 boost, with only one turn of set up.
Add this to the fact it has 115 base speed any ally slower then it can hit +5 on their first attack.

Unless I'm missing something important here, this seems pretty powerful.

It's possible that bullet seed will only hit once, ie if the first attack fails, it stops.

It does cause pokemon who have breakable armor to gain a +5 speed boost(along with a -5 defense), but they actually get hit so it's not really an accurate example.

 

[Cooky]

Don't know if it's been said, but imagine it's use in a double battle. Give it skill link and pair it with a herbivore ally. Bullet seed will hit your herbivore ally 5 times, ie a +5 boost, with only one turn of set up.
Add this to the fact it has 115 base speed any ally slower then it can hit +5 on their first attack.

Unless I'm missing something important here, this seems pretty powerful.

Herbivore only gives a +1 boost unfortunately, and Beat Up Terakion is probably a better strategy anyway.

edit: wow didn't realise i was so late...

 

[Slightly]

Unless I'm missing something important here, this seems pretty powerful.

Herbivore only gets a +1 boost from Bullet Seed.

Aaand there we go. :P
Oh well. It seemed to good to be true anyway.

OT: I think I'd use skill link over technician as I prefer the reliability.

 

[Cooky]

Wake Up Slap is handy for Tyranitar who thinks it can laugh at you.

Skill Link LO Bullet Seed has like a 99% OHKO chance after SR.

 

[Wasted]

That is assuming T/Tar doesn't have any HP or Def EVs.

Put 252 HP, 0 Def on Tar and you get:

Chirachiino@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Bullet Seed vs Tyranitar (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 71.7 ~ 84.6% (290 ~ 342 HP)

Chirachiino@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Wake-Up Slap vs Tyranitar (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 69.3 ~ 82.1% (280 ~ 332 HP)

Agreed though, Bullet Seed is still the preferred choice against 'Tar regardless, IMO. Unless you've got some good sleeping-tech in your team.

On the other hand, get even just a +1Atk in there, and Chino is going to tear through stupid amounts of stuff.

 

[TEA_DEMON]

Yeah totally not buying the Chillaccino=Ambipom argument. Because Ambipom has Rock Blast/Sweep Slap/Bullet Seed right? The only problem is deciding between Technician and Skill Link in DW unless someone clever has bothered to do average base power checks of course.

 

[Jayceja]

Skill Link LO Bullet Seed has like a 99% OHKO chance after SR.

in that same post, he said he uses technician because skill link is not released yet

 

[Wasted]

Yeah totally not buying the Chillaccino=Ambipom argument. Because Ambipom has Rock Blast/Sweep Slap/Bullet Seed right? The only problem is deciding between Technician and Skill Link in DW unless someone clever has bothered to do average base power checks of course.

Well, to start, the probability distribution of these moves is:

2 Hits: 37.5%
3 Hits: 37.5%
4 Hits: 12.5%
5 Hits: 12.5%

If my mathematics are correct, the average outcome of these moves without using Skill Link is:

2*.375 + 3*.375 + 4*.125 + 5*.125 = 3.000 Hits.

Ergo: The average base power of Rock Blast or Bullet Seed using Technician is Base Power * 1.5 (Technician) * 3 Hits = 112.5BP. Tail Slap/Sweep Slap gets STAB on top of this.

However, note that even though this is an average, you actually have an equal chance of scoring 3 hits as you do 2 hits. Therefore, even though the average outcome is 3 hits, you only have a 3 in 8 chance of this. Technician will outpower Skill Link if you get four hits or higher, but you only have a 1 in 8 chance each of getting 4 or 5 hits.

Comparing this to Skill Link, which has 100% probability of having a 125BP move (187.5 for Tail Slap), I don't actually see the purpose of using Technician at all when Skill Link is released officially - nor do I see the point after that in using Wake-Up Slap to cover T/Tar.

On the other hand, Wake Up Slap is the only Fighting move Chillachino learns, so....

 

[Jayceja]

but the thing is 112.5 BP before stab is by no means bad either, so it could be worth trading the slight damage decrease on average for the chance to get much higher damage

i still think technician/skill link is a matter of preference

 

[Wasted]

The only thing Chilla will be getting STAB on is Tail Slap - at 3 hits, this is 168.75BP; still super awesome, I'll admit.

The point is this: With Technician, three times out of four, you will not match Skill Links BP. Three times out of eight, you won't even make the average BP. You're going to tear your hair out of your head when that move didn't KO Burungeru, Vappy 'Tar or Blissey, all because you chose the wrong ability.

 

[XienZo]

Well, to start, the probability distribution of these moves is:

2 Hits: 37.5%
3 Hits: 37.5%
4 Hits: 12.5%
5 Hits: 12.5%

This has changed in Gen V: 4/5 hits are 1/6th each, and 2/3 hits are 1/3rd each.

That brings the average #s of hits to 3.167 and total power to 118.75, halving the difference between the Technician and Skill Link versions.

 

[Wasted]

Do you have confirmation of this change? All the known changes so far indicate that these moves still have the Gen 4 probability distribution.

EDIT: Irrespective of the alleged changes, these moves cannot hit 3.167 times, so in actuality, the average result will still be three hits = 112.5.

 

[XienZo]

Do you have confirmation of this change? All the known changes so far indicate that these moves still have the Gen 4 probability distribution.

EDIT: Irrespective of the alleged changes, these moves cannot hit 3.167 times, so in actuality, the average result will still be three hits = 112.5.

The original discovery was on some random post in the research thread, but numbers are consistant with those here:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84085

Anyway, an average doesn't have to be an actual possible value. What you're talking about is that the Median, which would remain 3 hits/112.5BP.

Of course, whichever one is more useful depends on context: Median is better for a single hit like in sweeping, whereas Average is more useful if you're breaking down a wall or something with several uses of the move, so I guess the median would be more appropriate here.

With that being said, we now have a 1/3rd chance of hitting below median, 1/3rd of hitting AT median, and 1/3rd of hitting above median (and skill link as well), so it seems a bit more viable to me.

Not to mention Wake-Up Slap is the only way to get past those omnipresent Steels.

 

[Zebstrika]

Swampert will never survive against you. Burungeru doesn't want to get hit by Bullet Seed either. What can Ambi do to that? Nobody runs ThunderPunch.

Ambipom used Seed Bomb!


Sweep Slap is now Tail Slap.

 

[Redjar]

Why did Gamefreak creat an exact clone of Ambipom in rodent form? That said, this is way better than Raticate, Furret, and Linoone.

It's not a clone... Can ambipom OHKO and revenge Shandy and most other flying and/or fire types while still packing an easy 125 BP stab?

That being said I do love me some Ambipom.

 

[PlainN]

I'm using his scarfed set with decent success as a scounting lead (U-turn, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Sweep Slap). The major problem is that Chillachino can't really switch into anything reducing his effectiveness late game.