Cleaning up Circus: Forum intros and other junk

[billymills]

Mafia and other games are in the description below. There's no need to put mafia in the forum title.

Circus Maximus: Forum Games works best

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I really don't like the layers upon layers of intro posts and guides we've amassed over the years, and would rather see newbies eased into the community with good hospitality on our end.

Instead of making a good guide, make an intro that immediately points out how if you really want to get what's going on here, you should PM a mod or join IRC and start asking questions.

That's it! It's simple.

 

[Yeti]

I like how Walrein tagged the people who were 100% going to read the post anyway because they click every new post in Circus lol

I think the best way to progress is to try to give villagers more agency. The more interesting we can make their roles, the more they're going to be involved. Can we completely abolish boring roles? No, because then villages would probably be too strong and games would become imbalanced. And of course some people are going to idle no matter how Unique and Fun their role is.

Regarding village leaders I agree, some scrubs will idle regardless of what they get (mafia, village PR, vanilla, heck LN has even idled as wolf) but there should be a desire to create interesting if weak village roles so that all townspeople can do 'something' at night even if it is not very strong.

I will give my critique of Metagame Mafia's design in postgame since it is not over yet but right now I will say if anything, in order for the village to optimally function, it DID necessitate someone stepping up c1 and beginning to organize targets. It also swung precisely the WRONG way to get many townspeople involved by making it too difficult to solidly clean a multitude of people. People who are not cleaned have no right to actual information nor is giving them it warranted, sorry but that is just the truth and part of the reason why the village leader system sucks for any town members not cleaned. IMO the solution to this in big games is to make it easy for the mafia to kill off the sheeted people, but also make it easy to feel like you can sheet a lot OF clean people so they get involved. Obviously mafia should still be able to mole through their own play and roles but the village should also be able to confirm its own kind easily enough that town can have a reason to be on the sheet besides "it isn't fun if you play so cautiously giving people info." Playing optimally to keep town info secure does not make it very fun for people whose roles are hard to prove, boring or low priority to prove but you also absolutely cannot and should not sacrifice the town's need to keep its info secure to solve this.

-maybe readd billy/shade as listed mods since billy's been modding again as of late and shade's expressed interest in becoming more active. Up to them though.

I swear I am not "personally attacking" anyone here but: if there are Circus mods not listed in the Circus info post, why are they not simply demodded from this subforum? If they are not people who can/should be messaged for help or questions nor are they approving any games/helping new hosts balance them, what are they modded for? Note that if they express an interest in fixing their inactivity and do begin pulling their weight, then absolutely they should be readded to that list and kept on as mods. However. Intentionally inactive mods should be removed a lot faster than they are IMO and I don't even think they should be replaced - the subforum is not big enough atm to warrant 6 mods imo and 5 of the ones we have aren't even involved in the #flamel crew at all. If there are 2 mods who don't actually do anything and get removed (whoever those 2 may be) and in the remaining 4, another winds up idling and the last 3 feel like they do too much work, then demod that 4th and pick a new 4th, maybe a 5th. You can still play mafia without being a mod so I would not want any of the current mods to leave the community, however, if they are not doing their part as a mod of the subforum, stop letting inertia allow them to keep the badge and just ask them to step down or shape up. If they refuse to shape up, then ask for them to be demodded. Past accolades are not a reason for current power. Otherwise we can get BS like Crux being a Circus mod (seriously why did that happen).

Guide on how to host a game
The one in the rules ends with "begin hosting your game". But how does one go about hosting a circus game? I know Mekkah(?) wrote a Smog article on that ages ago so at the bare minimum we could link that somewhere, but a more mordernized guide might be in order (and as one of the more prolific hosts I'd be more than willing to write it)

I think this is the point where a mod/CC should be offered to cohost with a first time host, if they want it. It's hard to write a guide on "what if this happens" because who knows what will happen in a game... do you write a guide for "what if GeneralSpoon posts a screenshot of his role PM after the village leader who is actually a mafia mole with a janitor ability posts up the faked PM, oh also if he is godkilled the janitor ability will not work unless you change how it functions midgame" because that was SOME SHENANIGANS. Or do you just write a guide for "if someone doesn't send an action for 1 cycle, warn them, 2, sub them" and so forth? Having an experienced user cohost the game might just be plain more informative and applicable than a guide that is either tl;dr to cover random situations or very general "no duh!" solutions.

Ugh the tone of this intro is all screwy let me fix this for you x.x

<fancy header maybe? if we make a cool one for the PS room we could swipe that>

Welcome to Circus Maximus! This is a community for all kinds of forum/online games, including but not limited to:

- Mafia (the party game) - we have a diverse array of mafia formats and roles so head on over to (this mafia introduction)[link to aska's thread here] to find out more
- Tabletop RPGs - mostly Pathfinder, but other systems are welcome. For more info, dive right in to #flamel on IRC and the folks there will be happy to greet you
- Diplomacy - a board game where you can try and conquer Europe by sending your armies into new lands
- Non-Pokemon Tournaments - for video games such as League of Legends or Mario Kart, or for classic games such as Chess, or for card games such as Yu-Gi-Oh!

We mainly specialize in strategy games (postcount++ games do not go in this subforum, for example). The majority of games run here are mafia variants based on how our meta has evolved however we are welcoming to all interpretations of forum games.

How do you get involved? It's easy! Any thread that contains "signups" in the title is a game that's currently accepting player signups. Some threads such as the Resistance Thread are open-ended and always welcome new parties - these threads are more for scheduling playtimes each week. Make sure to read the first post and rules to see what the specific game is and if there are any particulars you will want to do when joining. Generally, you just reply to the thread with "in" and wait for signups to close. For mafia games, you will get a PM with your role when the game starts, however you can check the OP of a game thread to see the current players to be sure.

Looking to chat with the community?
Pokemon Showdown! Room: Circus Maximus, this room is unlisted but open to everyone
IRC Channels on synIRC (irc.synirc.net):
#circus - the general hub of mafia/Circus talk. You can play Real Time Mafia on bots here as well!
#flamel - Circus's tabletop headquarters
#thegame - Diplomacy headquarters
Individual (mafia) games make their own IRC channels which will be listed in signup threads and game threads - feel free to join these even if you are not playing to get a feel for what is going on

Make sure you read the Rules [link Mekkah's thread] thread, and then feel free to hop in. Want some more information or need some guidance?
For mafia, read over this thread[link aska's thread again].
Want to propose a game or seek out a cohost to help you? Go to this sticky [link propose a game/request a host] and reach out!
New(ish) host wanting to get your game approved? Submit it in the Game Proposals subforum [link here] with all relevant information hidden in spoiler tags and a moderator will assist you to make sure the game is balanced, placed into the game queue and everything is up to snuff.
Check out the Game Listing [link thread] for upcoming games to see if there is either something you would like to participate in, or games that are waiting to begin before you can post your own.
Just want to ask questions? See the current Moderator / Community Contributor list [link] and feel free to shoot them a PM!

Always play to win, and always play to have fun!

---------------------------------------------------------------

best mafia moments are when plans your team worked hard on come to fruition

o, u

Final point: everyone see that anti gmax sticky, can we have one for creating anon forums on specific site so we can stop having excuses. All that needs to be done is that the nameless forum is checked by a mod before the subforums are named and posts are added.

I agree, there should be some sort of post explaining clearly what the anon forums are, what to do on them, what not to do on them, and how to set them up once you ask jumpluff to make you one on their site. Also clarifying what an alias is and that you should probably be cautious with giving it out since it is NOT your role name!

"Circus Maximus: Forum Games"

Yes this is the title we need. The current one is so pretentious and I think only relevant to the couple people who do want ~competitive mafia~ more than just "hey dudes lets play a fun forum game lol." Everyone plays to win but it's not like we have some player ranking based on MVPs and wins and Big Plays and so forth we're keeping track of, it's not That serious.

Also (and this is partly why I deleted the QDB when the title got changed to mafia-related logs when I had explicitly stated I wanted it to be all Circus game logs) this is NOT just a mafia subforum. There's #flamel too doing RPG things and other tourneys and so forth. I think the name is too exclusive. We are predominantly mafia and a lot of the community is here to regularly play mafia and mafia variants more than anything else but let's not needlessly limit ourselves.

I just want to see in addition to an intro section, a common strategies section where something like village leader is explained. This wouldn't be meant to tell people how to play, but prepare them for common practices around here in an unbiased way as opposed to hearing an explanation ingame from someone who could be mafia. I also like preventing newb town mislynches because they react incorrectly to a strategy they've never seen before

I really don't like the layers upon layers of intro posts and guides we've amassed over the years, and would rather see newbies eased into the community with good hospitality on our end.

Instead of making a good guide, make an intro that immediately points out how if you really want to get what's going on here, you should PM a mod or join IRC and start asking questions.

These two seem directly at odds with each other and in fact are at odds in how Metagame played out. Certain users said I was too "overbearing" for explaining how to play or react in the village leader system to newbies or explaining some facet of the game in the thread... okay, but, how are new town people going to learn if nobody tells them what they can do in this situation? I was actually town so all of my posts did have the town's best interests at heart [for how I think town should be played if you want to be technical] but people still took issue with it. Which is valid since as MAGS2 showed the leader can be a mole who NEVER gets cleaned but people sheep anyway. At least that game showed how dumb mindless sheeping was and now people are more eager to take some initiative.

I do completely agree that people who are experienced and on united teams should 100% be guiding new members of their team and tipping them off on what to do: don't tell your friends you are mafia since they aren't on our team, give the village leader(s) the fake claim we will help you come up with, what do you want your fake to be, let's write it, etc. It should be on the player in the know to give useful tips and strategy to new players.

However this doesn't help those newbies on the town especially when outside observers complain about the village leader trying to do the same thing for their team's newbies. Which is where a "meta explanation" guide would come in handy. I think the guide should objectively explain what a village leader is, why it happens, what are your options with claiming or refusing to claim, what does 'cleaning' mean, what you can do as mafia to fool the leader, etc. As well as a section on some multifaction/FFA meta/strategy stuff.

The thing is OC especially with larger games can be overwhelming - who do I talk to, what do I do, who can I trust? So there does need to be some kind of explanation that there PROBABLY will be people stepping up to lead, collect claims/info, etc, and here are some ways you can engage with them or decline to give them info depending on how you feel about them. Especially if the village leader will get qqed about for trying to do that in game. Somewhere, there needs to be an objective summation of the meta. Whether individual players like the village leader system or not is completely irrelevant. If it is going to be part of the game, then newcomers should be aware of it and aware of their choices in how to respond such as not immediately claiming and waiting for proof, etc.

 

[Aura Guardian]

- Tabletop RPGs - mostly Pathfinder, but other systems are welcome. For more info, dive right in to #flamel on IRC or look here [link to PFS thread maybe? or make a thread about circus tabletop?] what is the RPG hub? just #flamel?

Yes. We create side channels on a per-game basis, but #flamel is the RPG hub.

 

[UncleSam]

Actually I personally dislike anonymous forums (a bit off-topic but it was brought up), for one simple reason: it's incredibly difficult for a non-player to read through the game afterwards and figure out what happened. Aliases yes because they reduce name-targeting, but while I'd still like to see some anonymous forum games, I certainly wouldn't want them to become the 'norm' for Big/Official games.

 

[billymills]

What if future forum games had updates posted on both the anon forums, and a quick version on the smogon page?

Might make them a little more legible.

Also I'm more concerned about how the people playing find the game, rather than the people watching.

 

[UncleSam]

What if future forum games had updates posted on both the anon forums, and a quick version on the smogon page?

Might make them a little more legible.

Also I'm more concerned about how the people playing find the game, rather than the people watching.

I meant more from a forum approachability sense; if new players can't figure out what is going on in past games, it disincentives signing up and figuring it out. I like the idea of updating on both forums (or perhaps taking another look at Mekkah's old double alias format).

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Actually I personally dislike anonymous forums (a bit off-topic but it was brought up), for one simple reason: it's incredibly difficult for a non-player to read through the game afterwards and figure out what happened. Aliases yes because they reduce name-targeting, but while I'd still like to see some anonymous forum games, I certainly wouldn't want them to become the 'norm' for Big/Official games.

One more reason: you might just forget to check the anon forum during the game if you're not super into it. Maybe you lurk CM on a daily basis but the forum just slips your mind because it's a temporary thing.

 

[Blazade]

Actually I personally dislike anonymous forums (a bit off-topic but it was brought up), for one simple reason: it's incredibly difficult for a non-player to read through the game afterwards and figure out what happened. Aliases yes because they reduce name-targeting, but while I'd still like to see some anonymous forum games, I certainly wouldn't want them to become the 'norm' for Big/Official games.

As a guy who read a lot of CM games on the bus to work last year, I can confirm that anon form games are difficult to read. Even with Smogon updates so much of the content is broken up, and so many of the players are less inclined to speak in thread that it gets difficult

Also something that's better about aliases than anon forums is that your text comes from your face with an alias. You get kept anonymous for nametargeting while still not feeling like you have to hold back or hide your personality and mannerisms.

 

[JALMONT]

This is only tangentially related but I personally think it would be cool to see more articles about circus (eg the metagame article, stuff more akin to the old smog articles). Posting postgames in the form of an article would be good in that it allows for us to better publicize our forum.

I think it's good to have intro articles and if people want to write stuff like that, they shouldn't be stopped or discouraged. But I think it's a lot more important to advertise ourselves and let people know we exist. They can make a decision from there if they're interested. By writing articles like that (whether it's a postgame, some sort of history of mafia, or like a player profile/interview) it'll give our subforum more visibility and it's a good way to get people interested. What's more interesting, reading rules/intros on how to play, or an actual review of how UncleSam successfully moled the village and led his mafia team to victory, much to the chagrin of everyone else? I can't speak for everyone, but I definitely think the latter is more intriguing (and definitely more likely to get people to want to try and play mafia rather than presenting them with some rules).

 

[UncleSam]

Jalmont I was definitely thinking of starting to write articles for The Flying Press more frequently about mafia stuff, just to raise interest.

 

[Yeti]

Walrein is 100% about to try and snipe that so he can get w/e flying press badge there may be lol

but ye I agree that would be a 10/10 thing to do is start publishing articles about games and such

 

[Aura Guardian]

since RPGs are mentioned in intro/subheading... do you think Flying Press might have room for an article series on tabletop RPGs?

 

[vonFiedler]

since RPGs are mentioned in intro/subheading... do you think Flying Press might have room for an article series on tabletop RPGs?

It has before. It just needs a writer willing to do it.

 

[Aura Guardian]

article outline submitted for approval; wish me luck, guys?

 

[LightWolf]

You poor fools do not know what a real Anon Forum game is like. There is no hiding mannerisms, people will be far more open in discussion on IRC/Showdown/Smogon thread. Anon forums are a platform for far more organised team discussions(convos are horrid), planning and the gathering of various logs. And then you can make some low key jokes in regards to whatever alias you get, make a fun gimmick, post in some of the joke threads in offtopic!

And HARD TO READ THROUGH? Anon forums were the GREATEST ways to archivize all the old big games, having access to all planning subforums in the open at the end, all the logs posted over there every single night action of the mafia sided recorded and village actions and logs recorded from the second they ask for their subforum. Meanwhile the smogon forums? They give you nothing but votes and bang people are dead, additional info is few and far in between.

As for not checking the forums, if you just check circus the thread will constantly be receiving new posts reminding you to check the anon info and so will whatever teammates you have. If you forget about checking the Anon Forums, then it's not the Anaon Forums, it's you not caring about the game.

Anon Forums should be the standard for bigs and especially Officials, and bigs have been anon for nearly a decade for a reason and none of the arguments here hold any water at all.

 

[JALMONT]

Well there's also the problem that most of the anon forums seem to go under after a few years and you can't read anything at all as a result...

 

[LightWolf]

Well there's also the problem that most of the anon forums seem to go under after a few years and you can't read anything at all as a result...

I'm all for archiving the currently still up shaym.in anon forums the second someone tells me how to do that then making sure it's done to all future ones as well. On the other hand I'm glad my early escapades are gone.

 

[Maleovex]

As a relatively new player, I've gotta say that something really needs to be done about the introduction. It only talks about Mafia, when at least half aren't mafia games, confusing new players even more, and the Mafia guide doesn't even help that much honestly. I was really not much more enlightened on how to play after reading that whole guide

 

[Yeti]

As a relatively new player, I've gotta say that something really needs to be done about the introduction. It only talks about Mafia, when at least half aren't mafia games, confusing new players even more, and the Mafia guide doesn't even help that much honestly. I was really not much more enlightened on how to play after reading that whole guide

This is very useful information. People like me/Sam/LW who can prattle off minute details of games held years ago probably don't know what a beginner really needs/wants to see because we know the game so well.

Are there any specific things you would want to see in the guide/intro? What parts of how to play do you think should go in there or could be most helpful?

 

[Maleovex]

I think it would be good to have a very basic, beginners guide so that you can work out what is actually happen, maybe work out what's going on in a game that you watch, and then a more in depth guide for strategy, roles, hosting etc.

 

[Ampharos]

thanks for the input maleovex, new player perspective is always appreciated

If we improve on aska's guide, I think that could definitely cover the "more in depth guide" that you mentioned. As for the super basic guide, I just had an idea where basically we walk the reader through a mockup mafia game and explain everything that goes on.

note that we'd definitely have to explain village leaders and claiming because whether or not we agree with the system it's what happens in 99% of games and newbies need to know wtf is going on

 

[rssp1]

we have anon forums for ps that have been running for a while so they definitely dont always go under after a while, you just need a dedicated host like we have
then again, ps is primarily noc focused which isnt necessarily true for smogon, but im just bringing up the point to show that anon forums dont always die quickly