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That's a lot of a power, but i guess flying types can switch in. Coverage will still hurt though.
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey: 444-524 (69.1 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
lcass4919 said:
Supportive abilities: immunity, flash fire, sap sipper, mold breaker, prankster.
Immunity seems a bit random in my opinion. Why not limber, water veil, own tempo, vital spirit, etc? From first glance this metagame seems pretty limiting, but I'll have to mess around with it a little first.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Immunity seems a bit random in my opinion. Why not limber, water veil, own tempo, vital spirit, etc? From first glance this metagame seems pretty limiting, but I'll have to mess around with it a little first.
How about natural cure? Gets a little bit of all of those.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
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You could have a poll with all the offensive, defensive, and supportive abilities. The top 5 will be used here.

Alternatively, not have it fixed and move this to pet mods where you can change it up every month.
 
Looks fun. :)

The supportive set is pretty random except for Mold Breaker and Prankster.
The others are like a mishmash of type-immunity abilities, which overlaps function with the Defensive set.
Also, the Offensive set is a bit too powerful.

Offensive:
  • Tough Claws No Guard
    • Tough Claws only benefits physical attackers
  • Adaptability
  • Tinted lens
    • Either Adaptability or this ability should probably go. If you have both Adaptability and Tinted Lens, there's no real reason why you should use a coverage move unless it's 4x resisted. You're basically running every offensive set with just two moves (because setup moves are useless).
  • Sheer force Sniper or Super Luck
    • Sheer Force leans too much towards special attackers, and removes the usefulness of moves boosted by Technician. Sniper/Super Luck offer more options, and is okay for both physical and special attackers. Focus Energy is pretty widespread. And crit boosts are not prevented by Unaware as far as I know.
  • Technician
    • I think Technician is okay, since it also boosts Hidden Power, some useful moves like Rock Tomb and Bulldoze
Defensive:
  • Fur Coat Filter
    • Fur Coat is just extremely unhealthy. Filter is a well-rounded ability.
  • Poison Heal Solid Rock
    • Poison Heal is severely limiting because Steel and Poison types (the defensive types) can't utilize it. Having both Solid Rock and Filter in the set makes it truly Defensive.
  • Regenerator Multiscale / Pressure
    • Regenerator fits the supportive set more. Pressure is great if you use No Guard for the offensive set, because lots of people would use high-BP low-PP moves. It also somehow prevents ugly stalemates.
  • Unaware
  • Magic Bounce Magic Guard
    • Magic Bounce almost has no purpose because the only things that would try to status / hazard would be the Prankester/Mold Breaker users. Offensive and Defensive sets are better off just attacking/healing. Magic Guard fits the theme of "get in, stay in".

Supportive Utility:
  • Immunity Infiltrator
    • Break through subs and screens. I would've suggested Aroma Veil to prevent Taunt and Encore, but then those two moves are most likely run with Mold Breaker.
  • Flash Fire Regenerator
    • Gives more opportunity for your utility mon to provide support
  • Sap Sipper Natural Cure
    • Same principle as above
  • Prankster
  • Mold Breaker
    • It's main purpose now is to bypass Solid Rock, Filter and Unaware.


I find this meta extremely hard to balance with 5 abilities in each set. Some abilities are bound to cancel each other, which often defeats their purpose.

I think it's better to limit it to 3-4 abilities.
Or you could make more sets. Since you compared this with MMOs, realize that Assassins often have defensive skills, and Priests have offensive ones. In short, make hybrid sets.

Something like this:

Warrior: Adaptability, Mold Breaker, Guts
Crusader: Unaware, Filter, Magic Guard
Wizard: Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, Magic Bounce
Priest: Regenerator, Magic Guard, Prankster
Assassin: Tough Claws, Technician, Infiltrator
Rogue: Poison Heal, Prankster, Mold Breaker
Hunter: Sniper, Super Luck, Compound Eyes
Druid: Sap Sipper, Poison Heal, Water Absorb

The way this could be implemented would be using the first ability on the list to determine your "class". More options in teambuilding is always good. :)
 

Martin

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I like the idea of having more than three classes tbh (although Hunter looks literally useless and Wizard looks like an overpowered piece of crap so you should probably balance those if you go with that suggestion). I think that having lots of open options for teambuilding is important, and maybe even having more classes than eight (I'd say cap it at ~10 though) is an option.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
Maybe there should be a downside to each class to balance it out. Like in RPGs you may go warlock but end up having shitty ap resist (im a geek) or you choose archer and you get fucked as soon as something comes close.

Warrior - Tough Claws, Sheer Force, Mold Breaker, Adaptibility and downside would be Defeatist or something.

Mage - could be focussing on the special side. No Guard, Magic Guard, Sheer Force Defeatist

Priest/Cleric - would be healing NOT STALLING/TANKING Regenerator, Natural Cure, Magic Guard,

Tank - the heavy walls Fur Coat, Toxic Heal, Heavy Metal (the ability that adds weight)

Assasin/Ninja - focus on speed and weakpoints Unaware, Mold Breaker, Speed Boost, Technician

^^^^^^^^^
Personal oppinions though
 

Martin

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Please balance Tank because that is literally invalidating physical attackers regardless of whether they carry Low Kick or not. Fur Coat is a genuinely stupid ability, so maybe something like Solid Rock/Filter instead, and then Stall or something as the balancing ability?
 
Yes stab boomburst noivern espeed dragonite with aerilate but at the same time if dragonite wants to go defensive he can get filter then it's good
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
You could have a poll with all the offensive, defensive, and supportive abilities. The top 5 will be used here.

Alternatively, not have it fixed and move this to pet mods where you can change it up every month.
i mostly chose those specific abilities to balance them. i would do the "change it up every month" but then that means the meta would never solidify, and im not a fan of metas with no "Consistancy" so i dont see how i can run one myself.

I find this meta extremely hard to balance with 5 abilities in each set. Some abilities are bound to cancel each other, which often defeats their purpose.

I think it's better to limit it to 3-4 abilities.
Or you could make more sets. Since you compared this with MMOs, realize that Assassins often have defensive skills, and Priests have offensive ones. In short, make hybrid sets.

Something like this:

Warrior: Adaptability, Mold Breaker, Guts
Crusader: Unaware, Filter, Magic Guard
Wizard: Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, Magic Bounce
Priest: Regenerator, Magic Guard, Prankster
Assassin: Tough Claws, Technician, Infiltrator
Rogue: Poison Heal, Prankster, Mold Breaker
Hunter: Sniper, Super Luck, Compound Eyes
Druid: Sap Sipper, Poison Heal, Water Absorb

The way this could be implemented would be using the first ability on the list to determine your "class". More options in teambuilding is always good. :)
Maybe there should be a downside to each class to balance it out. Like in RPGs you may go warlock but end up having shitty ap resist (im a geek) or you choose archer and you get fucked as soon as something comes close.

Warrior - Tough Claws, Sheer Force, Mold Breaker, Adaptibility and downside would be Defeatist or something.

Mage - could be focussing on the special side. No Guard, Magic Guard, Sheer Force Defeatist

Priest/Cleric - would be healing NOT STALLING/TANKING Regenerator, Natural Cure, Magic Guard,

Tank - the heavy walls Fur Coat, Toxic Heal, Heavy Metal (the ability that adds weight)

Assasin/Ninja - focus on speed and weakpoints Unaware, Mold Breaker, Speed Boost, Technician

^^^^^^^^^
Personal oppinions though
i actually like the concept of both of these ideas, having less abilities on each,(3 sounds reasonable) but instead having plenty of specific classes to choose from. would that be straying too much from my original concept? not many abilities provide good downsides that don't completely make stuff useless, so i kinda oppose that idea. ill have stock ideas for each class,(looking at both of yours i have good ideas) and every week ill probably hold a poll to get community opinions on changes to each individual class(thus this meta is codable from the start).

id be changing the actual concept of my old reasoning slightly, but it still keeps the main focus at hand (more then one ability by having "Combinations" to choose from) while adding a fun little twist. MMOns anyone? i'm probably going to have to ask TI or eevee to make such a dramatic change though.
 
More "classes" might help with things -currently 2 out of 3 "classes" are immune to residual damage statuses so adding Guts to offense would complete the trifecta and make spreading Burns/Toxic almost always useless/actively counterproductive, where having 8 classes you can actually have like 3 of them have those kinds of traits without it effectively invalidating the utility of spreading Burns/Poisoning.

Get a handle on roles and you could have some clarity on what Abilities each one should have -Poison Heal+Regenerator is a great combination for ensuring a Pokemon Just Won't Die, but if that's all you have then you're not necessarily capable of stopping setup sweepers and similar. Filter+Unaware is a great universal check to setup 'mons, but has no innate protection from Toxic, Taunt, etc. That sort of thing.

In turn offensive "classes" could have Ability pairs/trios (I think pairs is probably the best number, personally, but I don't feel like going into my logic right now) that more clearly define/focus their role: Infiltrator+Mold Breaker requires a wall with raw stats to stop, leaning on Magic Bounce/Substitute/dual screens won't save you, Simple+Oblivious is an obvious setup sweeper, (Oblivious provides Taunt immunity) etc.
 
I like the idea of having more than three classes tbh (although Hunter looks literally useless and Wizard looks like an overpowered piece of crap so you should probably balance those if you go with that suggestion).
Hunter does have it's uses though. Like letting Salamence/Hydreigon spam Draco Meteor without worrying about stat drops or missing. Works on Superpower as well. Or giving things 97.5% accurate Sleep Powder and 91% accurate Blizzard/Thunder/Focus Blast/Hurricane.

Wizard was my last minute set (I just moved it up the list) and I know it's OP. Probably better to give it Tinted Lens, Analytic and Magic Bounce, to make the a real Wizard-ish theme. Cast slow, but powerful spells.

--

I think MMOmons / MMOns would attract more players ;)
 
Out of curiosity, how do you define an ability as one of the 3 categories (offensive, defensive and supportive)?
I mean offensive is probably obvious, any ability that directly increases your offensive capabilities such as tough claws are classed as offensive. But my problem lies in the defensive and supportive categories, what is the line that separates them? My first guess is any ability that boosts you're defensive capacity, for example poison heal provides more HP each turn and thus requires more effort to take down. So why are things like flash fire in the supportive category? Flash fire seems defensive not supportive. What defines supportive anyway? Is it just where you dump all the abilities that don't fit the first 2 categories?

What about abilities like contrary or simple? What category would they fall into?
 
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Imperator Romanum

formerly Grains of Salt
If I understand catagories should counter each-other, so I don't think Fur coat should removed since it neitralizes offence. Without it it'll be almost impossible to beat offence. However, supportive abilies are shitty. Reaal shitty. Here's my idea for a change,

Magic Guard
Mold breaker
Prankster
Havrest
Pressure

So I removed immunity, Sap and FF. And I added Magic guard, countering any residual damage that stall might throw at it! I added Havrest too give a pokemon
Lum berry, Sirus ect. The fifth ability was somewhat difficult to find! Alternatively you make Wonder skin, Filter but Havrest is dope. Pressure is added to outstall almost anything!

Love the metagame!
 
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Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Out of curiosity, how do you define an ability as one of the 3 categories (offensive, defensive and supportive)?
I mean offensive is probably obvious, any ability that directly increases your offensive capabilities such as tough claws are classed as offensive. But my problem lies in the defensive and supportive categories, what is the line that separates them? My first guess is any ability that boosts you're defensive capacity, for example poison heal provides more HP each turn and thus requires more effort to take down. So why are things like flash fire in the supportive category? Flash fire seems defensive not supportive. What defines supportive anyway? Is it just where you dump all the abilities that don't fit the first 2 categories?

What about abilities like contrary or simple? What category would they fall into?
the original idea of support was to have an immunity to "almost every type" while also being able to set up hazards and whatnot to combat both stall and offense to a "decent" degree. but being too broken, i decided instead an immunity to every form of damage stall can deal to support would be enough to help it. and with prankster and mold breaker, its already a strong force for offense. it was also created to combat fur coat. as i knew even with the rediculous boosts offense gets, defense just laughs it off. the reason i want to keep the three as they are, is that physical has ALWAYS had a better advantage then special(better distributed setup, stronger moves with less reprocussions, more "perfect coverage") so to also somewhat balance that, i made sure support had a method to make physical sweepers good for breaking stall while not powering them up too much.

the premise is that neither of the three has a "complete" dominance over one another on a figuative level. support can beat all three, defensive can beat all three, and offensive can beat all three. barring the pokemon who push them over the edge. (cough cough chansey and blissey). they just have a slight advantage. offense loses to defense, but support beats defense. but offense breaks the crap out of support. BUT none of them completely lose to the other. but just enough that spamming 6 offensive mons wont cut it. it was slightly intentional.
 

Martin

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If I understand catagories should counter each-other, so I don't think Fur coat should removed since it neitralizes offence. Without it it'll be almost impossible to beat offence
Uh... what? I understand what your saying about how they should counter each other, but I don't see how this at all balances it. By keeping Fur Coat as part of the meta you are basically invalidating physical offense without actually keeping special offense in check, which just leads to the entire meta centralising around special attackers and special walls. This is not balance at all, and if anything it is a case of cancer/unbalance similar to Mega Salamence's effect on the OU metagame before it was banned.
 

Imperator Romanum

formerly Grains of Salt
Uh... what? I understand what your saying about how they should counter each other, but I don't see how this at all balances it. By keeping Fur Coat as part of the meta you are basically invalidating physical offense without actually keeping special offense in check, which just leads to the entire meta centralising around special attackers and special walls. This is not balance at all, and if anything it is a case of cancer/unbalance similar to Mega Salamence's effect on the OU metagame before it was banned.
ke90jeR.jpg


Special offence has been invalidated since gen one my friend!

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 250-296 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- 60.2% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Latios Psyshock vs. +2 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 226-268 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Poison Heal

252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. +2 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 276-325 (42.3 - 49.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

252 SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 204-241 (31.3 - 37%) -- 43.7% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 260-307 (39.9 - 47.1%) -- 92.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 281-331 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

Special offence has always been inherently crippled since gen one because of Blissey, to counter-act that... Well Blissey line doesn't have an equal for physical attackers we've been given abilities like Intimidate, rough skin, iron barbs and fur coat. If we remove Fur coat offence will completey decimate Defence and Supportive teams. However, with Fur coat it's fine, honestly. Remember, from what I read you're not restricted to purely running one Class per team. Of course your offensive classed pokemon is going to struggle with Defensive things, but that's why you can add a support pokemon on your team! Pokemon has always been about X being overpowering versus Y, but Z being overpowered versus X and Z being weak to Y. Offence is beaten by Defense and defence by Support. Keep Fur coat


Screen Shot 2016-02-23 at 21.50.01.png


This dank, horribly cropped but excellently drawn image should illustrate what I mean.
 

Martin

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The thing is, I don't want to be forced to run chansey and/or blissey on every team i make to not auto-lose to special attackers. If that is the case, then that is proof of meta overcentralisation, Physical offense has stuff like Skarmory etc. already, it doesn't then need fur coat on top of that to make it literally impossible to run a successful phys offensive 'mon. It would uust completely break defense, and that is not balanced in the slightest rofl

Instead of trying to buff defense, the ideal solution would be to nerf offense. The fact is that, while you would expect a triangle, one simply will never exist here. This isn't swords>axes>lances>swords or fire<water<grass<fire. We're talking about entire ranging playstyles, and that means that you go from a simple triangle to a sphere of phys offense beats special defense but loses to phys defense on top of everything else, and by turning SpD walls into complete catch-alls for every mon in the game you are breaking the balance. This is not desirable.
 

Imperator Romanum

formerly Grains of Salt
The thing is, I don't want to be forced to run chansey and/or blissey on every team i make to not auto-lose to special attackers. If that is the case, then that is proof of meta overcentralisation, Physical offense has stuff like Skarmory etc. already, it doesn't then need fur coat on top of that to make it literally impossible to run a successful phys offensive 'mon. It would uust completely break defense, and that is not balanced in the slightest rofl

Instead of trying to buff defense, the ideal solution would be to nerf offense. The fact is that, while you would expect a triangle, one simply will never exist here. This isn't swords>axes>lances>swords or fire<water<grass<fire. We're talking about entire ranging playstyles, and that means that you go from a simple triangle to a sphere of phys offense beats special defense but loses to phys defense on top of everything else, and by turning SpD walls into complete catch-alls for every mon in the game you are breaking the balance. This is not desirable.
url.jpg 250px-706Goodra.png images.jpg 250px-143Snorlax.png 250px-248Tyranitar.png 250px-245Suicune.png 250px-719Diancie.png 250px-630Mandibuzz.png

Here pick any of the following, because they all handle special offence excellently. I love this metagame a lot, stall is baeeeeee <3
 
As long as fur coat stays, tough claws should be replaced, since the only time it would be relevant is drain kiss(a move that is only relevant because of TC and technician). Technician is similarly nonvaluable.
 
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I'm fine with Fur Coat staying. My problem is Technician, which basically doesn't raise power at all, with exception of Skill Link pokes, because single hitting 60 bp only raises to 90 bp, which is no different from boltbeams. The only relevant thing about it is Skill Link, 40 bp priorities and Dual Chop. Replace it with something.
It doesn't have to be guts but as I said before, Guts would be the best replacement of it because it's kind of unfair that Defense and Support have a way of neutralize/taking advantage of status and Offense doesn't.

Edit: but in my honest opinion, Fur Coat really needs to go. With Regenerator + Poison Heal, you have your self heal 33 (Regenerator) + 12.5% (Poison Heal) = 45.5% EVERY SWITCHES and with Unaware you can't boost yourself to beat it. It's completely overpowered already. You can basically switch pp stall with blissey and you can win with just that.
 
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I'm fine with Fur Coat staying. My problem is Technician, which basically doesn't raise power at all, with exception of Skill Link pokes, because single hitting 60 bp only raises to 90 bp, which is no different from boltbeams. The only relevant thing about it is Skill Link, 40 bp priorities and Dual Chop. Replace it with something.
It doesn't have to be guts but as I said before, Guts would be the best replacement of it because it's kind of unfair that Defense and Support have a way of neutralize/taking advantage of status and Offense doesn't.

Edit: but in my honest opinion, Fur Coat really needs to go. With Regenerator + Poison Heal, you have your self heal 33 (Regenerator) + 12.5% (Poison Heal) = 45.5% EVERY SWITCHES and with Unaware you can't boost yourself to beat it. It's completely overpowered already. You can basically switch pp stall with blissey and you can win with just that.
Skill link is not a thing.
Physical offense is still more viable than special offense because mold breaker is a thing.
Guts would be completely useless since no physical mon would ever have offense.
 
Skill link is not a thing.
I know that Skill Link doesn't exist with the current state of the meta, but maybe if the idea to have more classes with fewer abilities is approved, one of them could be Skill Link + Technician.

Guts would be completely useless since no physical mon would ever have offense.
Quick Feet, then? Dunno if that would be relevant here either though because lack of speed isn't the issue.
 

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