Community Create-a-Team 2: M-Lopunny + Lando-T

Jhon

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DMDW's Staka TR
I haven't built or played a lot of TR this gen, and I've been interested in using Staka in this environment.

If NagaKart was NagaScizor I'd have been all about that; alas, I'm just not on board with Helmet Kart.
 
can't say's Naganadel + bulky Kartana core

I really like Jhon's nomination of Lop + Lando-T, but Naganadel and Kartana are two Pokemon that I've wanted to try to build around but haven't really done much with myself, so I have to give the slight nod to can't say.
 

cant say

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We got a lot of votes to start us off which is really cool. Here are the results:


Jhon's Mega Lopunny + Landorus-T core: 10
cant say's Naganadel + Kartana core: 9
DMDW's Stakataka + Primarina code: 3
the rest: 0


Which means our team will be built around the core of Mega Lop + defensive Lando-T! Post where you think the team should go from here, the best route is probably adding a third mon to flesh out the core a bit more.

~~~~~~~~~~

For my nomination i'm going with a fat Steel-type so we have an Ice-resist


Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 204 HP / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield

In Jhon's original Lopunny nomination back in the first CCaT he included a fat steel option with Aegislash and Magnezone and I really like Aegi in that slot. I'm nominating standard SubToxic because it's Aegi's best set in general, and saves the Z move slot for a different Pokemon we can add later. It also pivots a bit easier thanks to Leftovers and provides really nice passive damage with Toxic and Lando's Stealth Rock which enables Lop to pick up KOes more often.

I just stole the spread we use in BSSF, there might be a better / team-specific one we can change to.
 

Tapu Fini @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Moonblast
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt

Fini is a good teammate for this core since misty terrain means lop doesn't have to worry about burns or paralysis. Plus as Jhon said in his nomination post water/fairy mons pair well with lop. The ev spread lets Fini outspeed 4 speed rotom forms, but it can be changed in the future to better suit the team.
 
I'm going to suggest the most mindless and boring thing I can possibly think of:


Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Curse

Mimikyu. Mimikyu is a good check to Mence, which lives an Ice Punch from Lopunny and OHKOs, and doesn't mind Lando since Lando has no real way of damaging it. It can also check Pheromosa if it gets out of hand (although aegi can do that too). Furthermore, thanks to the ridiculously "balanced" ability Disguise, Mimikyu is the most braindead free win button for babies ever, a mon I truly despise and is without a doubt completely broken.

Not sure about the set or EVs yet they can be changed but Curse is nice for Glalie/Eevee fun.
 
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ethan06

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Okay so Pokémon that currently give this core trouble are as follows (probably incomplete but this is off the top of my head):
Fat Water-types i.e. Fini, Suicune
Tapu Lele
Mamoswine
Mega Salamence
Celesteela

First thing that comes to mind is an Electric-type to help cope with the stuff that can wall this core, and I agree with cant say's assertion that a fat Steel-type would fit best to deal with the more offensive threats. Celesteela is a good call here so someone should nom that but I'm gonna take the first route and try to cover as many bases as possible:


Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

The reason for my picking Rotom-Wash is threefold: firstly, it answers the fat Water-types that give the opening core trouble; secondly, it's one of the few Electric-types that can reliably deal with opposing Ground-types; and thirdly, the Trick option makes it a useful tool for disrupting stall. Volt Switch allows Rotom to create a pivot core with Landorus and trap things in the vortex. Thunderbolt is a more consistent Electric option, because dealing with things like Toxapex becomes a lot easier when your main damage output against it isn't forcing you out with every use. We could use Hidden Power [Ice] instead if we want to pressure Roost Mence, but Thunderbolt does an ok job of dealing damage to most other Mence builds and between Rotom's two STABs we're hitting most of HP Ice's targets anyway, which brings me to the other STAB move, Hydro Pump. Virtually required on Rotom-Wash, this move is a nuke if it hits and it gives us solid coverage for Ground-types and Fire-types. Not much else to say, it's pump. EV spread outspeeds 0 spe Landorus-T, maxes HP and sticks the rest in powah.
 

Jhon

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The list of common things Lopunny dislikes, imo
Offensive stuff
Lele - Especially Scarf
Blaziken
Salamence - DD/Sub
Swampert - Rain
(Surprise) Scarf in general
Charizard X/Y - Conditionally poor matchup

Defensive stuff
Landorus-T - (if not Ice Punch)
Fini
Hippowdon
Celesteela - PhysDef
Zapdos - PhysDef
Cresselia
Venusaur
Toxapex
Skarmory
Slowbro
(Aegislash, Ferrothorn and Heatran: Loppuny should only be considered the secondary/tertiary answer to these since heavily relying on HJK v Protect is not a good time)

Everything else offers reasonable room to play around or trades well enough.
Generally I think keeping an eye on the defensive mons is a good idea. Particulalrly Venusaur and traditional stall cores. Lopunny excels vs offense but can struggle vs defensive/stall style.
We have 4 slots, there's a lot of room to build with. Right now I'd want to just get a handle on Lele. In quite a simple manner too. Having one of the 4 'Big Steels' (Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Celesteela, Heatran) could help tremendously with Lele and they pair well with Landorus. Of course, options for bulky steels aren't strictly limited to these 4; M-Metagross, M-Scizor, AV Excadrill, and Magnezone can all offer their own unique traits.
I like Aegislash a lot, Toxic or SD, but cant say has already nommed that. Though I would prefer a bulkier spread.
This is what I typically use

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 92 SpA / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute / Shadow Sneak
- Toxic
- King's Shield

Changing from Modest to Quiet with Sneak, and shifting the 4 Spe into Atk.
Another variation on the Sneak build is to use Adamant with Shadow Claw instead fo Shadow Ball. With the 92SpA in Atk.
Anyway, I'd like to nominate Celesteela. It checks Lele, it can check DD Mence and it can also perform well against Venusaur, Skarmory, Cresselia, and Hippowdon among others. In combination with other mons, to take advantage of a weakened board state, it can also pressure defensive builds significantly. Largely thanks to its immunity to Toxic and access to Leech Seed, which often forces switches and negates much of their efforts to whittle away at Celest.
Some of this is dependant on the final selection of moves we give it.
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Largely a placeholder set, since it's a mon with quite a diverse movepool. Which options are best for it will not be clear until much later.
HP Ice, Air Slash and Toxic are among the options which can look very attractive.
 

Psynergy

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Ok I notice there's no Magnezone here and cant say asked for more nominations here so here's another fun one. Magnezone + Lopunny + Landorus-T is a fun core I liked in ORAS that should at least get a mention, it's not something I've seen lately though I think it's about as good as it was in ORAS, if not slightly better.


Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sturdy / Analytic
Level: 50
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Magnezone fills similar roles to the aforementioned Steel-types but takes a more offensive approach and can pivot into Lopunny, while also having a safer matchup against Water-types like Greninja. The spread can be adjusted if another item or more bulk is desired for the team but this spread outspeeds invested base 75 Pokemon like Tapu Bulu which is nice for the current core. Sturdy vs Analytic is largely preference and team based so I'm not going to pin one over the other here.
 
I agree with the general ideas put here. I'd like to put another bulky mon into contention though, which is P2.

A standard P2:

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 164 Def / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Foul Play
- Recover

Seems to do good work vs a lot of the stuff that that core seems to struggle with. No it isn't an ice resist, but lets be honest, it's taking like 10% from most Hp ices and 20% from ice beam from most mons. That's just my 2 minutes looking into it though.

Ika
 

cant say

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ok let's vote!!
For my nomination i'm going with a fat Steel-type so we have an Ice-resist


Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 204 HP / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield

In Jhon's original Lopunny nomination back in the first CCaT he included a fat steel option with Aegislash and Magnezone and I really like Aegi in that slot. I'm nominating standard SubToxic because it's Aegi's best set in general, and saves the Z move slot for a different Pokemon we can add later. It also pivots a bit easier thanks to Leftovers and provides really nice passive damage with Toxic and Lando's Stealth Rock which enables Lop to pick up KOes more often.

I just stole the spread we use in BSSF, there might be a better / team-specific one we can change to.

Tapu Fini @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Moonblast
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt

Fini is a good teammate for this core since misty terrain means lop doesn't have to worry about burns or paralysis. Plus as Jhon said in his nomination post water/fairy mons pair well with lop. The ev spread lets Fini outspeed 4 speed rotom forms, but it can be changed in the future to better suit the team.
I'm going to suggest the most mindless and boring thing I can possibly think of:


Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Curse

Mimikyu. Mimikyu is a good check to Mence, which lives an Ice Punch from Lopunny and OHKOs, and doesn't mind Lando since Lando has no real way of damaging it. It can also check Pheromosa if it gets out of hand (although aegi can do that too). Furthermore, thanks to the ridiculously "balanced" ability Disguise, Mimikyu is the most braindead free win button for babies ever, a mon I truly despise and is without a doubt completely broken.

Not sure about the set or EVs yet they can be changed but Curse is nice for Glalie/Eevee fun.
Okay so Pokémon that currently give this core trouble are as follows (probably incomplete but this is off the top of my head):
Fat Water-types i.e. Fini, Suicune
Tapu Lele
Mamoswine
Mega Salamence
Celesteela

First thing that comes to mind is an Electric-type to help cope with the stuff that can wall this core, and I agree with cant say's assertion that a fat Steel-type would fit best to deal with the more offensive threats. Celesteela is a good call here so someone should nom that but I'm gonna take the first route and try to cover as many bases as possible:


Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

The reason for my picking Rotom-Wash is threefold: firstly, it answers the fat Water-types that give the opening core trouble; secondly, it's one of the few Electric-types that can reliably deal with opposing Ground-types; and thirdly, the Trick option makes it a useful tool for disrupting stall. Volt Switch allows Rotom to create a pivot core with Landorus and trap things in the vortex. Thunderbolt is a more consistent Electric option, because dealing with things like Toxapex becomes a lot easier when your main damage output against it isn't forcing you out with every use. We could use Hidden Power [Ice] instead if we want to pressure Roost Mence, but Thunderbolt does an ok job of dealing damage to most other Mence builds and between Rotom's two STABs we're hitting most of HP Ice's targets anyway, which brings me to the other STAB move, Hydro Pump. Virtually required on Rotom-Wash, this move is a nuke if it hits and it gives us solid coverage for Ground-types and Fire-types. Not much else to say, it's pump. EV spread outspeeds 0 spe Landorus-T, maxes HP and sticks the rest in powah.
The list of common things Lopunny dislikes, imo
Offensive stuff
Lele - Especially Scarf
Blaziken
Salamence - DD/Sub
Swampert - Rain
(Surprise) Scarf in general
Charizard X/Y - Conditionally poor matchup

Defensive stuff
Landorus-T - (if not Ice Punch)
Fini
Hippowdon
Celesteela - PhysDef
Zapdos - PhysDef
Cresselia
Venusaur
Toxapex
Skarmory
Slowbro
(Aegislash, Ferrothorn and Heatran: Loppuny should only be considered the secondary/tertiary answer to these since heavily relying on HJK v Protect is not a good time)

Everything else offers reasonable room to play around or trades well enough.
Generally I think keeping an eye on the defensive mons is a good idea. Particulalrly Venusaur and traditional stall cores. Lopunny excels vs offense but can struggle vs defensive/stall style.
We have 4 slots, there's a lot of room to build with. Right now I'd want to just get a handle on Lele. In quite a simple manner too. Having one of the 4 'Big Steels' (Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Celesteela, Heatran) could help tremendously with Lele and they pair well with Landorus. Of course, options for bulky steels aren't strictly limited to these 4; M-Metagross, M-Scizor, AV Excadrill, and Magnezone can all offer their own unique traits.
I like Aegislash a lot, Toxic or SD, but cant say has already nommed that. Though I would prefer a bulkier spread.
This is what I typically use

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 92 SpA / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute / Shadow Sneak
- Toxic
- King's Shield

Changing from Modest to Quiet with Sneak, and shifting the 4 Spe into Atk.
Another variation on the Sneak build is to use Adamant with Shadow Claw instead fo Shadow Ball. With the 92SpA in Atk.
Anyway, I'd like to nominate Celesteela. It checks Lele, it can check DD Mence and it can also perform well against Venusaur, Skarmory, Cresselia, and Hippowdon among others. In combination with other mons, to take advantage of a weakened board state, it can also pressure defensive builds significantly. Largely thanks to its immunity to Toxic and access to Leech Seed, which often forces switches and negates much of their efforts to whittle away at Celest.
Some of this is dependant on the final selection of moves we give it.
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Largely a placeholder set, since it's a mon with quite a diverse movepool. Which options are best for it will not be clear until much later.
HP Ice, Air Slash and Toxic are among the options which can look very attractive.
Ok I notice there's no Magnezone here and cant say asked for more nominations here so here's another fun one. Magnezone + Lopunny + Landorus-T is a fun core I liked in ORAS that should at least get a mention, it's not something I've seen lately though I think it's about as good as it was in ORAS, if not slightly better.


Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sturdy / Analytic
Level: 50
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Magnezone fills similar roles to the aforementioned Steel-types but takes a more offensive approach and can pivot into Lopunny, while also having a safer matchup against Water-types like Greninja. The spread can be adjusted if another item or more bulk is desired for the team but this spread outspeeds invested base 75 Pokemon like Tapu Bulu which is nice for the current core. Sturdy vs Analytic is largely preference and team based so I'm not going to pin one over the other here.
I agree with the general ideas put here. I'd like to put another bulky mon into contention though, which is P2.

A standard P2:

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 164 Def / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Foul Play
- Recover

Seems to do good work vs a lot of the stuff that that core seems to struggle with. No it isn't an ice resist, but lets be honest, it's taking like 10% from most Hp ices and 20% from ice beam from most mons. That's just my 2 minutes looking into it though.

Ika


~~~~~~~~~~

I'm gonna vote for Psynergy, I really like the slow VoltTurn combo with Fake Out Lopunny, that damage quickly adds up and allows Lopunny to clean up with Return/HJK. The steel typing won it for me over Rotom, as we'll need a Scarf Lele check.
 

Psynergy

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I'm going to agree with one of the Steel-types being a good choice here for answering Scarf Lele. I honestly think any of them would be a good fit here so I'm not sure which to vote, but I've always been a fan of Celesteela so I'll put my vote for Jhon. It might be a slight bit passive for a team that currently has Lopunny and a bulky Landorus-T but that could easily be made up for with Leech Seed/Toxic chip and more aggressive teammates.
 
In my opinion, can't say's Aegislash is my favourite. I'd change the EVs around a bit probably. It had to be one of the bulky steels and I think the Aegi/Lando/Lopunny core is less susceptable to boltbeam than Celesteela/Lando/Lopunny. Zone for me is a great mon but that 4x weakness to earthquake makes it less balanced.
 
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Theorymon

I see what you did there!
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Hmmm... I agree that we probably want a Steel-type to round out this trio, and all 3 choices are pretty good, reasonable bulky Steel-types to compliment Landorus-T and Mega Loppuny. Choosing this will be tough!

While I feel that Aegislash and Celesteela would be the easier choice to go with in terms of just leaving our options open for the rest of the team, I'm voting for Magnezone because its pivoting power to aid Mega Loppuny more, and dealing with Water-types better are BIG, unique selling points for a bulky Steel on this kind of team! I also like the psuedo sash it has the option of using in sturdy, which can be a life saver if SR isn't set up! That being said, if we go with this option, we better have a gameplan for bulky Grounds (especially Hippowdon)!

Also, this is very much a thing the team can round out later, but I like that Magnezone isn't as much of a free-switch in for Mega Charizard Y as Celesteela (Aegislash can hurt that and Sub + Toxic sorta stinks for it though, but it can take at least one Shadow Ball). I mean sure, Magnezone isn't winning if Sturdy isn't up, but considering how hard Charizard in general can be to check, even just "sturdy steel-type that hits Charizard switch ins hard" sounds at least nice enough to make the pressure of a Flame Charge sweep a bit less in our face!
 
In my opinion, can't say's Aegislash is my favourite. I'd change the EVs around a bit probably. It had to be one of the bulky steels and I think the Aegi/Lando/Lopunny core is less susceptable to boltbeam than Celesteela/Lando/Lopunny. Zone for me is a great mon but that 4x weakness to earthquake makes it less balanced.
I'll add a bit onto this as whilst I think all three steels are fine choices, there are still significant matchup based vulnerabilities to patch up. I've spoilered a few thoughts below. This is all my opinion, though Im very uneducated on teambuilding.

It should be noted that there are still some weaknesses to be patched up by further members. Yes, this does depend on which member is chosen to an extent, but whilst I think choosing a steel type is the way to go, there are still going to be significant weaknesses, especially to fat mons even with the addition of a bulky steel.

In particular, lead Hippo into setup which is common gives a lot of trouble if Hippo has Ice fang or yawn to force lando out, which is the cores check to a lot of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier or no taunt. Same with defensive lando-T into set-up, rocky helmet and ground or flying type in general does good work vs the lando/lopunny core. Mega mence, Zard Y (if no rock move lando) and Gyara in particular come to mind and none of the mons to choose from deal with all of those or close to it other than Fini.

A water/fairy mon would be a great 4th in general, whether it be fini, azu or primarina. In my opinion, one of these three as well as one of the three steels mentioned above are almost a shoein for the team and work really well to patch up Lopunnys/landos weaknesses. You could also possibly put suicune in the mix, but I haven't thought too much about it.

Trick room cores containing either P2, Mimikyu or Cresselia, but particularly the latter heavily threaten this team. A lot of TR teams also have the tools to deal with lando inbuilt on them given to its prevalence. Alolawak under TR looks scary.

Zapdos still causes heavy annoyance no matter what mon from the list is picked, in general Lando will probably need rock tomb or some sort of way to deal with flyings.

Hard stall still annoys the heck out of this team as does mega-pert under rain.

Currently I think Lando is very pressured in terms of its move/role selection which is something to consider moving forward.
 
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ethan06

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cant say's Aegislash. ik i threw my weight behind celesteela in my post but that's only bc aegi was already nominated so have at it

edit: tbh i don't wanna change my vote but Magnezone is really good haha, we need an Electric type and a Steel type and it just seems tidy to me
 
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DMDW

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Psynergy's Magnezone

Tbf I would stick with Magnet Pull because ferro + protect / cele + protect / toxapex and other things are in all honestly aids to deal with. Tapu Fini also offensively cehcks both fini lopunny and lando so Magnezone is the way to go here.

Edit: Whoops typo
 
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