Competitive Move Users

[cyberzero]

Smogon has a very thorough Move section, but it is not really tailored to suit a competitive player's needs, in my opinion. Let us say that a player is looking for a competent user of Shadow Ball, for example, because he or she has problems against Ghosts and Psychics on his or her team. If one does not have a particular Pokemon in mind, one would normally search up the move "Shadow Ball" and look through the list of Pokemon that use it. However, the list is extremely long and full of Pokemon that are not very good at using the move competitively.

Take a look at the first 22 Pokemon on the list:

Abomasnow
Absol
Alakazam
Ambipom
Arceus
Azelf
Banette
Beautifly
Bibarel
Blissey
Bronzong
Butterfree
Castform
Celebi
Chansey
Chimecho
Claydol
Clefable
Corsola
Cresselia
Crobat
Darkrai

The Pokemon that have at least a semi-decent chance of having the move Shadow Ball on a common set are bolded, and even some of those are a stretch. Most of these Pokemon are unable of using the move due to very low usage, very low Special Attack, a dire lack of STAB or just that the Pokemon has better things to do. I am suggesting that we introduce a relatively short list of Pokemon that can use the move in question competently and competitively at the bottom of the page, or at least to bold the names of the Pokemon that can use it in such a manner. If not, even color the row for the Pokemon can make a difference, as there tend to be a LOT of spots of Pokemon that are not necessary for a competitive player. For example, I would never need to know that Ambipom, Bibarel or a whole lot of other Pokemon learned Shadow Ball if I wanted a good Shadow Ball user. I would end up with a decent Pokemon if I searched down the list, but it is a lot of work in some cases. Of course for the sake of completion, I don't think that we should get rid of the non-competitive Pokemon from the list entirely, but it would greatly aid competitive players in finding Pokemon that they can use.

 

[Togekissfan]

To argue, take a look at the pokemon, Togekiss. It, honestly, has, what I believe to be, one of the most diverse movepools in the pokemon game. The reason I used Togekiss is because it can learn Shadow Ball. This will all change, however, when Heartgold and Soulsilver come out for the DS in the US. Here's an example: My Togekiss on Platinum came from Pokemon leafgreen as a Togetic had his moveset: (Fly, Softboiled, Psychic, and Flamethrower). But here's another moveset I recommend: (Ancientpower, Roost, Psychic, and Air Slash). Here are some other ones I came up with. If they suck or aren't that diverse and effective, don't post a negative comment, but I would like to get feedback: (I only wish Togekiss can learn Swords Dance =(, and these movesets use the Serene Grace ability)

1) An early moveset: (Fly/Air Slash, Roost, Extrasensory [HGSS only and egg move] or Psychic, and Flamethrower)
2) (Ancientpower, Wish/Roost, Aura Sphere, and Air Slash) With a Choice Band/Life Orb
3) (Nasty Plot, Roost/Softboiled, Psychic/Water Pulse, Flamethrower/Heat Wave/Fire Blast)
4) (Nasty Plot, Sunny Day, Solarbeam, Flamethrower/Heat Wave/Fire Blast) =]
5) (Thunder Wave/Toxic, Body Slam/Last Resort, Air Slash, and ???????? [your pick])

These are just few of many diverse combinations of moves because of it's humongous moveset. For a good pokemon that knows Shadow Ball, you can't rely on most Ghost Pokemon since a good Shadow Ball Attack relies on a good Attack stat, and most ghost pokemon don't have that. A favorite ghost-type pokemon of mine is Sableye. It's a good ghost to start with, since it has no weaknesses. But if you want a ghost-type pokemon with high attack, I did a little research and Banette alone has a very good Attack stat. The only two Pokemon that surpass that are Giratina in it's Original Form ONLY, and Arceus as a ghost-type. A Banette with a Spell Tag would power up it's ghost-type moves. Basically, here's what you have: Shadow Ball+STAB= 120 Power.
120+Spell Tag= If I remember...160 power or 240. Basically, you have a pretty good Shadow Ball User, But Dusknoir and Spiritomb are other good choices. Also, pokemon that can learn Swords Dance are also good choices. This is my opinion.

 

[VKCA]

I don't really see how thats related to the op...
I do like this idea though. I think it could be expanded beyond just the users, maybe devide the pokemons move pools into "competitive" and "flavour" moves, so you don't have search through th 50+ moves just to see if he has one move. Most pokemon have like, what? 20 viable moves? at most.
ex togekiss:
~16 moves suggested in the analisis
more moves than I can count on its "moves" page...

 

[RBG]

I can see this being possible in the future when Doug has the time to make it so stats are automatically added to the site, I could see this being much more viable as an alternative to seeing the full list. Maybe have both on the same page perhaps, the pokemon that use it frequently on top and everyone else below.

 

[cim]

You don't even need Doug's stats to implement it. All of the "competitive moves" for a Pokemon are listed on the analyses (in theory of course).

 

[diinbong]

If you need a Pokemon to beat Ghosts wouldn't you go through the list of, say, Dark-types? I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea however I also think this is not the best use of it. A more logical example is probably searching Baton Pass for a BP team or Thunder Wave for a parahax team... In any case, I think a competitive overview of every move (or at least competitive moves) would be a good implementation. An example of what I mean can be found in some move analyses like the Life Orb description. The way you would like to implement this (having a short list of "competitive" users) is not a good idea; while Clefable is not bold on your list, in UU it can actually make good use of Shadow Ball on a Calm Mind set (Calm Mind/Softboiled/Focus Blast/Shadow Ball). Cutting down the list accurately is nearly impossible unless you focus on one tier, which we don't want to do. Your list is sooo subjective... that format would only be useful if it just cut out Pokemon like Absol who actually will never use it.

 

[cyberzero]

For a good pokemon that knows Shadow Ball, you can't rely on most Ghost Pokemon since a good Shadow Ball Attack relies on a good Attack stat, and most ghost pokemon don't have that. A favorite ghost-type pokemon of mine is Sableye. It's a good ghost to start with, since it has no weaknesses. But if you want a ghost-type pokemon with high attack, I did a little research and Banette alone has a very good Attack stat.

Shadow Ball is a special attack, and Banette has absolutely terrible special attack. What tier would you use Sableye in? NU? I've never seen it used there.

If you need a Pokemon to beat Ghosts wouldn't you go through the list of, say, Dark-types? I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea however I also think this is not the best use of it.

I posted this in order for an easier way to help some of the relatively new competitive players because most of the more experienced players will already have a very good idea of what beats what through battling. People who require some sort of tool or guide to help them start getting used to editing teams and figuring out what works and what doesn't would make great use of this, in my opinion. Also, sorry for not bolding Clefable, I'm not much of a UU person D:

 

[cantab]

These are just few of many diverse combinations of moves because of it's humongous moveset. For a good pokemon that knows Shadow Ball, you can't rely on most Ghost Pokemon since a good Shadow Ball Attack relies on a good Attack stat, and most ghost pokemon don't have that.

True in RSFRLGE. In DPPt Shadow Ball became special.

A favorite ghost-type pokemon of mine is Sableye. It's a good ghost to start with, since it has no weaknesses. But if you want a ghost-type pokemon with high attack, I did a little research and Banette alone has a very good Attack stat.

You can find this quite easily. Look up the move. Let's use an actual physical ghost move in DPPt, Shadow Claw. Once you've looked it up, just sort by attack stat. We can see who has the highest attack. Spotting Banette as the highest Ghost is fairly easy.
(Incidentally, offensively Ghost and Dark are almost the same. Thus, Banette is arguably outclassed by Absol, which is faster and hits harder.)