I wouldn't say that Grass Knot is particurlaly viable, however Extrasensory is definitely usable, and at the very least could carve out a niche.
I'll edit this post with calcs soon.
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[COMPLETED] Greninja
- Thread starter SOMALIA
- Start date
I wouldn't say that Grass Knot is particurlaly viable, however Extrasensory is definitely usable, and at the very least could carve out a niche.
I'll edit this post with calcs soon.
Fixed.
really minor but it's there in first set the anD is capitalized oddly.
This mentions Dark Pulse as a "reliable secondary stab" and says it's for starmie. The first part strikes me as odd given Protean, whereas for the second part, Grass Knot hits starmie for the same base power (both being OHKO's on standard offensive spin starmie) as well as providing SE coverage against most water types (which resist greninja's common water, ice and fire attacks). I'm sure Dark Pulse has plenty of advantages over it and I'm not here to argue against that, I just think there are probably better choices to exemplify dark pulse's use.
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Is there a reason the Spikes set doesn't have Toxic Spikes as a second slash for the first move (Spikes/Toxic Spikes)? I understand you mentioned Toxic Spikes in the analysis below, but does the main set rely on the Protean Spikes -> Ground typing in such a way that Toxic Spikes -> Poison would be detrimental?
Why isn't there a mixed set? I wanted to take advantage of one since I got a 6 IV Hasty Froakie, but I'm not so good at spliting EVs.
It's because Dark has excellant nuetral coverage. Not sure on why it says secondary stab either though, as Greninja gets stab on everything.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 88 Atk / 168 SAtk / 252 speed
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- HP Fire
If you can't get HP Fire, then just replace it with whatever coverage move you need.
Greninja already has decent Sp.Att. and mediocre Attack stat so spliting the EVs won't help you whatsoever in my opinion..It's better going with the Scarf set with U-turn/Surf or Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam and Modest/Timid/Hasty nature.. :)
A choice set? No... just no...
Well you can always use Life orb on it..It's your call :)
Just because you have a 6 IV Froakie doesn't mean you have to take advantage of its ATK. As it has been stated before, physical Greninja isn't so great. Splitting the EV's does nothing but hamper Greninja's effectiveness as a special attacker.
I wanted to give it Water Shuriken & U-Turn, but oh well. Thanks anyways.
I had an idea for a physical set, but I'm not sure it's competitive enough since the overall power is pretty low. Basically load Greninja up with a bunch of priority moves (Water Shuriken, Quick Attack, Shadow Sneak, U-Turn). This set-up feels kind of gimmicky especially since he doesn't have the raw power to back up these priority moves (like Scizor, Azumaril) and has a massive speed stat already, so I'm not sure I'll ever put it into practice, but getting to change your type with priority might give Greninja more control vs priority users.
Still waiting on a response to this.
That makes sense, perhaps the analysis should state that, though I still think something not weak to one of the other major attacks greninja has (i.e. stuff on set + Grass Knot/Extrasensory) would be a better example to use than starmie - one of the more popular ghosts that Dark Pulse handles perhaps?
On the topic of grass knot though, it does 2HKO Azumarill (252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 265-312 (65.5 - 77.2%), Move 1 is a 60BP Grass Move as PS!'s calc doesn't seem to like grass knot), so if you predict the switch in you can take that out, which might be worth mentioning seeing as Azumarill resists every other common move (Extrasensory hits it neutral but is rare and HP Electric, if anyone is running that still, hits for the same BP but leaves you neutral to aqua jet/waterfall) and OHKO's with Play Rough (even if you're neutral to it from protean, it still deals 96.5 - 113.6%, a OHKO after a single round of LO Recoil, unboosted), and is thus mentioned as a counter - grass knot at least means Azumarill will not be able to mindlessly switch into every greninja (as plenty are carrying it at the moment it might be worth mentioning, I dunno).
Shame it doesn't do slightly more to Rotom-W, as while it lets you resist both its STABs, Rotom-W+LO Recoil will generally kill you even if you can do any kind of damage to it (which basically requires also running Dark Pulse).
Not enough for a slash but perhaps it warrants mentioning, idk.
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Seconding this. I can see why the Dual Spiker set is mentioned but not given its own set, but I don't see any particular reason why Toxic Spikes isn't slashed in the "mono-spiker" set, as it doesn't fundamentally change the set much at all. Besides, it probably can use its Protean-induced Poison type to help set up both layers against some fighting and grass types like Venusaur and Lucario.
I'm not completely certain on this, but it may be because Spikes are generally easier to use. Only Flying types and Levitators are immune to Spikes, while the same are immune to T Spikes with addition of Steel and Poison tyoes.
There are also only two ways to remove Spikes, while there are three ways to remove Toxic Spikes.
From personal experience against Greninja's Grass Knot is just not always worth it.
Things that are meant for Grass Knot (Tyranitar and Hippowdon I'm pretty sure are the two big targets) usually get hit harder by this other harder hitting Protean STAB moves. With things like Rotom-W running around , Grass Knot is just a fill up where some other move could take its spot.
Things that are meant for Grass Knot (Tyranitar and Hippowdon I'm pretty sure are the two big targets) usually get hit harder by this other harder hitting Protean STAB moves. With things like Rotom-W running around , Grass Knot is just a fill up where some other move could take its spot.
What if the Pokemon is light or resists Electricity? (ex: any Rotom forme, Zapdos). I mean, I get that it reduces the Thunderbolt, but couldn't they just keep attacking & kill you and shrug off Grass Knot?