Concept Laboratory (and Workshop)

[IGotEaten]

Had a sorta fun idea, wanted to throw it out there.
Name: 1-Turn Wonder
Description: Extremely threatening on its first turn out, sorta middling after.
Justification: The first turn a Pokemon is out is pivotal to how it performs in a battle, so it could be fun to make a Pokemon built around it. It would also have great utility as a lead, which is a pivotal role on any team.
Questions To Be Answered:
(1) How can this Pokemon make the best use of its first turn in battle?
(2) How would this Pokemon fall off afterwards?
(3) What does this Pokemon provide against other common leads (Setters, pivot mons, etc.)
Explanation: A variety of tools exist that assist Pokemon in these roles, such as pivoting moves like U-Turn, setup abilities like Grassy Surge or Drizzle, and moves that only activate on the first turn in, like Fake Out and First Impression. A Pokemon I think fills this concept better than anything else is Lokix down in UU. It uses First Impression and Tera Bug to deal huge damage, then really only wants to U-Turn out, so it can do the same later. Frailness could also be a way to show this concept well, demonstrated by glass cannons like Weavile. I am aware that most of my examples are from UU, which raises the interesting question of how we could pull it off successfully for OU.

 

[kenn]

Feedback Time!

Name: Create-A-Parasite

I know I have praised this when it is submitted to the actual process, but I feel like we kinda have this inherently throughout other mons such as Obliteryx and the ones you mentioned that it feels fairly explored on the surface. I am not sure how to make this any more "appealing" to the masses and may just be a timing issue more than anything. That being said, it is a great concept...I just feel a bit like this is "beating a dead horse" with it being submitted for every SV process besides one so it may be something to revisit in Gen 10 whenever that comes around.

Name: Bring your Cloaks

While I appreciate the idea behind this concept, I think at this point of SV it is hard to effectively and successfully make this concept come to life just by the nature that the metagame is what it is nowadays with things running Cloak quite often just thanks to Garganacl or Mollux among other mons. My biggest issue to see this overcome is "How do we force that item disruption onto the opponent?" Like do we target mons that would rather run Boots or Lefties and are therefore forced to run Cloak to avoid what this concept's end product does or do we just falter to those mons already running Cloak on a consistent basis such as Zamazenta and Revenankh.

Name: Two sides, one coin

I think this is a neat way to approach the process and how it naturally just pigeonholes a concept into 1 set save the concept "forcing" it and so this one I really like just because I think it is pretty cool how customizable to make a Pokemon for possibly the same team archetype, but fulfilling the same role in 2 or more ways. I think it is nice you leave it a bit more broad to allow CA to nail down the approach and how exactly strict the community wants to be in the divisiveness of the 2 sets in fulfilling the same role.

Name: Living Life on the Edge

HP manipulation is something that yours truly has also thought of for a concept (just when brainstorming and nothing concrete though) and I find it extremely fascinating for sure. I think a good example to mention alongside the ones you brought up is Custap Berry shenanigans from 1v1. Custap Berry gives "fake priority" to a move which could be like a last hurrah for this CAP to either take down an opponent or even have something wild like Destiny Bond pop off. Definitely could also have more specific questions to ask/be answered with things like "how would this CAP perform under that type of pressure? Is a "pinch" Berry or ability enough or are there more things that can have potential but are generally tossed aside?" or "How does this CAP thrive with low HP when most Pokemon either want to keep themselves healthy or get in and get out?"

Name: Grand Entrance

While a lead Pokemon may seem enticing, it is pretty hard to actually execute in this day and age. That being said, I think there is merit in exploring a CAP that has way more potential early game than the late game, or rather just excel in one particular "gamestate", which is eerily similar to my first ever concept submission: Position is Key and I think using that old sub of mine as a guiding point for your own submission would be helpful in terms of fleshing out an explanation and the other facets of a full fledged concept submission.

Name: Thanks for the Hazards

I think the idea of this is more of a threat than the actual execution. Realistically, this concept is hard to achieve a well rounded and viable end product and has implications that may not be ideal for one to  want this CAP on their team. Self-Webs is cool, but the thought is that at the end of the day, you'd rather have the Webs on their side of the field to sweep the opponent. Loading up Defiant/Competitive mons is strictly more of a "what if" so you aren't then deterred by those Webs ending up on your side of the field. I think if anything, you could make this concept more of a broad spectrum that it could be a mon that "benefits" by either have the ability to punish for having -1 Speed or can be extremely resilient to entry hazards as a whole a la Equilibra. Not my favorite idea personally, but as it stands it does feel unfinished and I think there is something to explore but maybe need to scratch more than the surface on this one to find what's worth exploring.

Name: Nuclear Option

Tinkaton the concept is really cool! For real I don't have much to say on this and it seems good on paper and I think it would make for an in-depth process that could produce an interesting end result. No real critiques for what you have provided in terms of your questions and explanation so :thumbsup:

Name - From Nobody To Nightmare

This kinda feels similar to Cyaneedle's concept, but in the opposite direction. Again, I recommend looking at my concept sub I linked in their feedback, but as for what you have provided I have no real criticism except for maybe making a mention about more relevant things such as Kingambit or a Tera hog sweeper that wanna abuse or conserve those resources until the endgame to put the match to bed so to speak.

Name: Load and Fire.

While I think this would be an interesting idea in theory, it is a different story in practice. GF themselves have kinda circumvented this by way of Electro Shot as well as the item Power Herb and I think it would be a hard fought process to have something viable that uses 2 turn moves that couldn't have just used a higher BP move to begin with that most types have access to universally. This could be a good FlashCAP concept though since those are strictly thought experiments to show if it is even possible in the first place and I would 100% be down to do this for a FlashCAP.

Name: The Little Things

Ah, Technician the concept lol. Seriously though, lots of low power moves have weird and sometimes unique effects so it would be interesting to see how those would play out in a viable setting. As you mentioned, Scizor is a fantastic example of this concept but I definitely think it could be pushed even further and make quziel's dream come true of a top tier Fake Out CAP lol.

As for any of the other concepts that I didn't give feedback, I really did have much to say but if you ever want anything specific, I am down to make another post down the line. In my free time I am trying to work on writing out the concept idea I had so maybe I'll post that whenever I get that done. Love all the ideas posted so far and glad to see this thread is off to a great start in terms of being a workshop for good (or bad) concepts lol.

 

[IronTemplar]

Name: The Little Things

Description: A Pokémon that uses only low base power moves.

Justification: As it currently stands, the vast majority of moves remain unused in the competitive scene of Scarlet Violet; and serve only as moves used in a playthrough that get replaced later down the line. The lower base power moves that are viable in competitive often come with side effects that grant value to its user; namely Fake Out and it's priority flinch, and multi-hit moves such as Surging Strikes and Triple Axel.

Questions To Be Answered:

1) What defines a low base power move?
2) What role should this Pokémon take on a team?
3) How should this Pokémon take advantage of low base power moves?

Explanation: Most low base power moves remain underutilized, so a Pokémon which solely uses them is an interesting concept that not many Pokémon fulfil, if any. The one Pokémon that exists that sort of fulfils this concept is Mega Scizor, making advantage of the low base power Bullet Punch with it's Technician ability. A second approach is to give the Pokémon very good stats of which are balanced by having low BP moves.

Missed opportunity to call it "All the small Things" (Blink-182 reference), but other than that, fun!

 

[Guingil]

Don't want to make it superlong, advice on how to frame the explanation section would be really appreciated.

Name: Department of Redundancy Department

Description: This Pokémon positively uses redundancy or repeated elements in its kit.

Justification: Redundancy is normally avoided in Pokémon kits in favour of versatility. However, doubling up on similar or identical elements can provide unique benefits. This can be reliability, such as inflicting a burn with either Flame Body or Will-O-Wisp, or always being able to exploit STAB with both Freeze Dry and Ice Beam. Redundancy can also provide twice the resources, such as with double 50% healing providing 16 PP. In dual-typings, it gives 4x resistances, while redundant offensive STAB coverage (such as Dark/Ghost) can free up a moveslot by making only one STAB necessary.

While this multifaceted aspect has trickled its way into competitive Pokémon sometimes, this concept is an opportunity to define what redundancy really is, how it can be beneficial, and what drawbacks it poses. Given that it can be inserted in many stages of the CAP process, it can also make for a rich, engaging process.

Questions to be answered:

• What constitutes redundancy in Pokémon, aside from the trivial case of running near-identical moves?
• Do elements have to function independently to be redundant, and do synergistic effects (e.g., Salt Cure + Leech seed, Double Dance, Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet) count?
• What unique benefits can redundancy provide that a varied kit cannot?
• Is reliability/consistency in achieving an effect worth losing the ability to do much else? Is it a matter of the least cost, or the most upside?
• Does not possessing a varied kit necessarily make a Pokémon a matchup fish?
• What are the implications for the rest of a Pokémon's kit, and for teambuilding, to accommodate redundancy? Does it require compression of slots elsewhere to compensate?
• Which of offensive, defensive, and utility builds is most suited to exploit redundancy? What teams or playstyles can best take advantage of it?

Explanation:

Redundancy or repeated elements are often considered undesirable in competitive Pokémon, but they can be useful or even preferred. Similar moves, typings, or even move-ability or ability-item combinations can make for redundancy.

Running identical or similar moves often requires specialized kits for viability, but can provide unique benefits to those kits. Two 50% recovery moves result in double the PP and are most useful for defensive Pokémon like NU Vileplume. To make full use of STAB, Kyurem can run both Freeze Dry and Ice Beam for the situational upsides of each, but this is mostly due to the amazing offensive coverage of Ice/Ground. Similarly, users of Eruption/Water Spout/Dragon Energy/Blood Moon often pair it with another STAB move for reliability in their offensive breaking. (more examples here, double phazing, scald + lava plume, similar moves being called by Sleep Talk, etc)

(do moves or combinations with synergy count, my guess is probably not but there are interesting cases like gigaton hammer + blood moon, jaw lock + no retreat, double dance, etc)

(move ability combinations, flame body + wisp, poison heal/regenerator + roost -- often only one is run, if the pokemon has something better to do)

(typings can be 4x resistances, 4x weaknesses that can be afforded, or redundant offensive coverage actually providing flexibility)

The concept is inspired by redundant design in engineering, where critical elements have a backup in case they fail, or you overshoot your requirements so much that even in unexpected scenarios, your device does not fail.

s/o viol and bass for his help with this, especially the questions.

 

[Badly Poisoned]

Name: Dripping water wears through rocks

Description: This CAP pressures its would-be answers by repeated stat-dropping attacks

Justification:
Unlike setup or status moves, stat-dropping attacks are able to damage the opponent while also making the subsequent attacks more punishing. While these debuffs disappear when a Pokemon switches out, they can often force opponents to choose between staying at a disadvantage or giving up the positional momentum to reset their stats. Over the course of a battle, these repeated forced decisions can gradually overwhelm defensive answers despite the temporary nature of the drops. This concept explores whether stat reduction can serve as an effective primary form of offensive pressure, rather than just being an complementary bonus

Questions To Be Answered:

• Can repeated stat drops serve as a Pokémon's primary method of making progress?
• Which stat drops create the most meaningful offensive pressure while maintaining healthy counterplay?
• How much immediate offensive presence is needed to capitalize on repeated debuffs?
• Does our selected moves need to have 100% of a drop (i.e. Icy Wind, Acid Spray), or is anything with a high rate of happening (i.e. Seed Flare) fair game?
• How do temporary stat drops reshape switching patterns and defensive play?

Explanation:
The most well-known realisation of this concept is probably in the case of Shaymin-Sky, whose Specs Seed Flare could 2HKO Blissery if the first use results in a SpD drop. However, this concept is not limited to just wallbreaking through dropping Def or SpD. More subtle forms of stat reduction can be equally influential in gameplay. In SS OU I've seen Tapu Fini run Icy Wind which, while not OHKOing Dragonite and Garchomp, allows it to outspeed on the following turn for a subsquent with Moonblast. Even Atk dropping moves like Lunge on Buzzwole has seen some user in Ubers against Marshadow from overpowering it. This concept seeks to explore how repeated stat drops of any kind can reshape counterplay and become a Pokémon's defining method of generating offensive pressure.

 

[Volsur]

Name: Flipped Matchups
Description: This Pokemon changes its matchups and coverage by changing its opponent's typing or its own.
Justification: We have Pokemon that are viable because of their typing, and Pokemon that are viable in spite of their typing, but rarely does a Pokemon match well into an unfavourable type MU unless it has insane stats or strong enough coverage.
Questions To Be Answered:
1. Should this Pokemon focus on changing the target's typing, its own, or a mix of both?
2. How do we give this Pokemon reliable offensive attacks when its STAB and the opponent's defensive profile are constantly changing?
3. Is it better to utilise abilities or moves for these purposes?
4. What types benefit most from changing their defensive profile, or gaining new coverage?
5. How do we make this Pokemon actually want to run these moves/abilities instead of coverage?
6. Should this Pokemon have type immunity abilities? How do we stop it from being too matchup-fishy?
Explanation: There are quite a few type-changing moves in the game, however most of them are not used because they take up a moveslot, reset on switch and can be rendered redundant by coverage moves. Soak has seen a bit of use on and , but those Pokemon don't have many options and are low-tier. Forest's Curse, Magic Powder and Trick or Treat lack usage as well, despite being signature moves. Neither do the Conversions and Reflect Type, whereas Burn Up and Double Shock had a small niche with Tera. However, Protean and Libero are considered good abilities, while Mimicry is not(No Forecast mention as that is form/Pokemon tied). There's a balance somewhere there that is worth the opportunity cost of a move/ability slot, but is still balanced.

 

[IGotEaten]

Final Submission

Name: Rigid Versatility

Description: This Pokemon is centered around a single move that all successful kits require, conversely causing the rest of the kit to be more versatile.

Justification: Most Pokemon use all their viable tools to near-equal effect. However, certain Pokemon have 1 move required for a viable kit, which is significantly better than the average move overall. This inversely gives them access to more variety in their movepool and sometimes other factors due to a single move being extremely viable.

Questions To Be Answered:

1. What moves are powerful enough to allow this sort of diversity to take effect?
2. Is this limited to attacks, or are there other moves capable of creating this effect?
3. How do moves that can deal increased damage under certain conditions come into play? Is using other moves to fulfill those conditions anti-concept?
4. Does typing of our “key move” impact how much it allows for this versatility?

Explanation: The primary inspiration for this concept was (thanks to viol and bass for pointing me towards this Mon, it’s been helpful in molding this concept) who does most of what I’m describing here with its Ceaseless Edge (perhaps this is a power marker to use), having 5 very different OU sets. Pokemon like have had success, but also don’t really fulfill the concept strategy-wise, never really clicking anything but First Impression and U-Turn. However, I believe that this concept has levels to it, mainly in focus move power and options for other moves, which we need to explore as we dive deeper into the concept. In summary, I think this concept treads some interesting ground, and if guided right, could be a great concept for this process. UPDATE: I have been requested to provide some more examples of the type of Mons I mean. So, I will now add some specific sets from across OU which shed some light on what I mean.

@ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 124 SpD / 52 Spe
Tera Type: Poison
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off

This is a bulky set of Samurott-H using the Assault Vest and some SpD investment, allowing for more staying power to gain more Ceaseless clicks, condensing special tank and hazard setup.

@ Focus Sash
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Aqua Cutter
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off/Taunt/Encore

Meanwhile, this set takes a more dedicated lead role, using moves like Encore and Knock Off to 1. Help its team down the line and 2. Make it easier to set up Ceaseless spikes at the start of the battle.

@ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Spikes

This Ogerpon-W set uses its signature move, Ivy Cudgel, so it can set up spikes while threatening common spinners off the field at risk of OHKOs.

@ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Trailblaze
- Play Rough

Meanwhile, this set uses Swords Dance to set up Ivy Cudgel so it can OHKO about anything that has no resistance to it, and cover everything else with Play Rough.

 

[viol and bass]

Name: One-Trick Pony

Description: This Pokemon is centered around a single 1-2 turn move/set of moves and aims to optimize it as much as possible.

Justification: Usually, adaptability to many situations is the name of the game in Pokemon, but certain moves can reach absurd levels of power if optimized properly, so it would be interesting to build a CAP around this optimization.

Questions To Be Answered:

1. What moves would receive the highest benefit from this level of focus?
2. How will we maintain widespread use without the adaptability most Pokemon have access to?
3. What factors best help optimize this strategy?

This concept is neat but it could use some clarity. First, I would highly suggest choosing whether to center the concept on one move or two moves, because right now it feels far too broad. I would say the majority of viable pokemon fit your current description to some degree. If you're focusing on two moves, what is the relationship between those moves? Are you thinking of something along the lines of Wisp+Hex where one "powers up" the other, or is it more like Flare Blitz + Head Smash Hisuian Arcanine where you just have 2 powerful moves to throw out? Are you specifically trying to say the rest of the kit is weak by comparison? Making that clearer in the description itself would be really helpful.

This is food for thought, but Hisuian Samurott is a textbook example of a mon centered on the use of a single move (Ceaseless Edge), and that mon is unbelievably versatile, largely because of the potency of that move making the rest of its kit flexible. It has 5 very different OU sets on the Smogon dex. Being centered on one or two powerful moves does not necessarily make a mon less adaptable or more predictable, perhaps even the opposite. I would consider delving into that exact issue more. It is probably possible to create a mon that is not versatile due to having basically no clickable moves outside of the one or two you're focusing on, but if that's what you're aiming for, that needs to be specified. Anyway, all this to say I'd reframe the way you talk about adaptability here.

If one or two moves are stealing the show, it's definitely worth asking what the rest of the kit is doing. "What factors best help optimize this strategy" doesn't really lead us anywhere. Try to think about specific issues that exist for similar pokemon, or aspects of similar pokemon that make them successful, and formulate questions around that.

Anyway, I think you've got some interesting stuff here, it just needs to be thought through a bit more. This is all just my random thoughts on the matter so feel free to take it or leave it.

 

[IGotEaten]

This concept is neat but it could use some clarity. First, I would highly suggest choosing whether to center the concept on one move or two moves, because right now it feels far too broad. I would say the majority of viable pokemon fit your current description to some degree. If you're focusing on two moves, what is the relationship between those moves? Are you thinking of something along the lines of Wisp+Hex where one "powers up" the other, or is it more like Flare Blitz + Head Smash Hisuian Arcanine where you just have 2 powerful moves to throw out? Are you specifically trying to say the rest of the kit is weak by comparison? Making that clearer in the description itself would be really helpful.

This is food for thought, but Hisuian Samurott is a textbook example of a mon centered on the use of a single move (Ceaseless Edge), and that mon is unbelievably versatile, largely because of the potency of that move making the rest of its kit flexible. It has 5 very different OU sets on the Smogon dex. Being centered on one or two powerful moves does not necessarily make a mon less adaptable or more predictable, perhaps even the opposite. I would consider delving into that exact issue more. It is probably possible to create a mon that is not versatile due to having basically no clickable moves outside of the one or two you're focusing on, but if that's what you're aiming for, that needs to be specified. Anyway, all this to say I'd reframe the way you talk about adaptability here.

If one or two moves are stealing the show, it's definitely worth asking what the rest of the kit is doing. "What factors best help optimize this strategy" doesn't really lead us anywhere. Try to think about specific issues that exist for similar pokemon, or aspects of similar pokemon that make them successful, and formulate questions around that.

Anyway, I think you've got some interesting stuff here, it just needs to be thought through a bit more. This is all just my random thoughts on the matter so feel free to take it or leave it.

Thanks for the input! I will take in mind as I finalize it for CAP38 concept subs

 

[Amamama]

Name: What doesn’t hurt me makes me stronger.

Description: This Pokemon creates and excels at abusing turns of invulnerability.

Justification: Usually Pokémon play to make as much progress as possible during their turn to advance toward a wincon as quickly as possible.
Sometimes though there are Pokémon that don’t. Pokémon that spend turns apparently doing nothing except denying the opponent progress.
These “passive” turns usually can be taken advantage of by the opponent but these few mons manage to gain more from them than the opponent and use these turns as integral part of their playstyle or even wincon.
This concept shall explore what makes these playstyles and wincons viable and if there are different successful paths towards using turn by turn invulnerability to win a game.

 

[Ayecrusher King]

Name: Ace Custom

Description: Through its customisability in its moveset, ability, held item and/or EV spread, this CAP can assume one out of a variety of roles, as well as illustrate how these roles work in the competitive scene to newer players.

Justification: ...wip

Questions to be answered:

• How much of an impact can one Pokemon have on making the team building process easier to learn?
• What specific roles do we want this CAP to viably assume?

Explanation: I'm postponing Create-A-Parasite until Winds and Waves come around.

Anyways, in combing past concepts, I found that CAP processes usually end with, "so we learned "..." from this process." Which led to a weird train of thought: "what can we teach using this process?" So I went looking for some concepts that delve into this focal point, on how we can make a test dummy, or in layman's terms a CAP that focuses on versatility and customisation: sneakyjeans's Training Dummy concept aimed to teach the CAP metagame, Dogfish44 's Skill Issue concept sought to define the Skill ceiling, Scizivire's Built Different focused on EV spreads & dex's By Your Powers Combined delved into roles. Surely we can salvage something from these altogether?

 

[Pipotchi]

Name: Two sides, one coin

Description: This CAP is tailored towards performing one, specific role on a team, but can go about performing that role in one of two drastically different ways.

Justification:
The CAP process encourages convergence towards a single, optimal build. Movepool variablity within one set is accounted for in the movepool stage, but having multiple distinct sets that can't mix or share elements is often something that CAP actively tries to avoid. If multiple sets are nearly impossible to appear naturally due to our process, a CAP that has two sets can only occur if the concept itself pushes the CAP down two roads instead of one. This concept explores how distinct sets can share a niche and what keeps them differentiated.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What role should the CAP be built around?
• Does performing the role in different ways necessitate having two viable abilities, or can the CAP be forced down one of two paths via item, stats, and movepool alone?
• How distinct should the two sets be? What can be done to make sure that both sets have advantages over the other while existing within the same niche?
• Is the surprise value of not knowing which set the CAP is running toxic? If so, how can the CAP be forced to reveal its set?
• What variables discourage a pokemon from mixing and matching the pieces its viable sets? How do we ensure that this pokemon doesn't just end up with one viable set that happens to have a lot of flexibility in its options?
• Should the order of the process be tweaked to tailor to the concept; for example, to allow two primary abilities to be selected back-to-back?

Explanation:
Gamefreak often unintentionally or intentionally makes pokemon that end up with two incredibly different viable sets that do pretty much the same thing.
Most of the time this is because of two busted abilities, but it can happen in a variety of ways:
Ability: ,,
Boosting moves: ,, ,, (3 boosting methods!?)
Utility moves:
Physical/Special split: ,,
Item (my personal favorite): ,,
Due to the linear nature of the CAP process, pretty much the only way that such behavior would exist in a capmon is if something changes between generations or a secondary ability ends up being strong. As we actively discourage this behavior to occur organically, I thought it would make sense to try to get it to work artificially.

i was writing feedback to all the concepts but it got deleted, but i think the feedback id give here is smth I would say to a few ppl:

this is a good concept! but it doesnt know what its trying to be. You'd be better off listing the role, or else you've encompassed pretty much every mon in existence as well as overlapped multiple existing cap concepts. Without a role your questions have to ask really vague stuff like "what are we doing?" instead of being able to really dissect the interesting parts of the intended role, what are the various routes that existing pokemon go about filling that role and where are the overlaps between them? how dramatic is the range of mons that fill it? etc etc. I'd just advise to avoid sweeper, since this is Naviathans concept.
But you get a chance here to actually assure voters that the role chosen will be quality and align with what they expect from this concept when voting for it, I think this is a lot better (and more honest) than trying to get votes by widening the range of potential concepts this can be because theres a huge chance that if I vote for your concept it will turn out to be something pretty different than my vision that I voted for. Not saying that this was your intention or anything, but I know ppl have considered this a strategy in the past.

Imo, for ppl unsure how wide to cast their net with their concept, there is a big benefit in not waiting til concept assessment to be more specific. if you can set a role like in this concept then set it, if you can define a term or a range that you used in your description then do it, if the concept has a bunch of wildly unrelated routes available then choose one, otherwise the concept will already be lagging slightly.

 

[Ehmcee]

Name: Signature Stealer

Description: This CAP is tailored around utilizing a signature move with more efficacy than its base holder.

Justification: Concepts surrounding a particular move have been tried multiple times in CAP due to their interesting design space, Necturna , Kerfluffle , Equilibra and Saharaja being included in that list. Kerfluffle's concept in particular is quite similar, picking the initially exclusive Parting Shot as an option for discovery. This concept aims to spotlight underutilized and exclusive moves as a centerpiece of it's design.

Questions to be answered:

- Should Legendary Signatures be permitted for this concept?
- Should lack of use on the base holder be a prerequisite for attempting to build around it?
- WIP

Explanation:
It seems like every generation invites more and more signature moves, however this also means that there are moves that never see the light of day due to Pokémon being unable to abuse their strengths. I wanted to take a look back and see if designing a Pokémon around a "Failed" Signature move was possible.

Would love thoughts and opinions :)

 

[traceyscetchit]

Alright, I've already subbed a concept but I'm procrastinating and feel like writing something so I'm just gonna go ahead and get a concept I've been mulling over for a while out there. I have no intention of using the concept for CAP 39 because its a drawback concept, and we've had way too many of those recently, and probably not for 40 either because it'll be soon in a new gen with new toys and possibly a framework, so this concept sub is a ways off, but I don't think it hurts to go ahead and type it up so here you go. I also wouldn't be terribly surprised if someone's submitted something similar to this before.

Name: John Wick, Pencil Warrior
Description: This pokemon champions a move that is objectively seen as terrible, useless, or outclassed, either out of desperation or extreme circumstances.
Justification: WIP
Questions To Be Answered:

• What bad moves could possibly see use in the gen 9 metagame?
• How much will the CAP's ability and statline have to pull up it's lackluster move choice?
• How much coverage or utility could such a pokemon receive? Will it be limited to always running the same 4 moves, as a 5th would replace the bad move?
• What cause will this pokemon have to run a bad move? Necessity? To counter a high-powered threat? Massive set synergy? Something else?
• How do we balance the inviability of the move with the desired viability of the pokemon?

Explanation:
Most drawback concepts go along the lines of: "X looks really bad, but hear me out. Maybe it's actually good? We can give it a chance to shine." This concept goes: "X looks really bad. X is really bad. In fact, X is probably completely outclassed by other options. But maybe a pokemon could be compelled to run X somewhat viably if the situation was just right." As surprising as it sounds, this concept actually has a lot of real examples:
Howl : In gen 8, this mon got banned and it's second most popular set was a howl sweeper.
Swift : When you gotta deal damage to a great tusk you gotta deal damage to a great tusk.
Quick Attack : On choice band sets, quick attack provides more utility than stealth rock, x-scissor, or even iron head.
Tickle : Alo's learnset is pretty bad besides wish, scald, and flip turn, so tickle has extremely low competition and can thus carve out a niche due to its ability to cripple dragon dancers and boost flip turn.
Work Up : Pyroar likes alternating between its stabs and needs boots, but has mediocre spA and thus needs a power boost. Work up is all it has, so it's what it uses.
Bite : Technician makes this mausehold's most reliable move to hit ghost types.
Poison Sting : Clodsire can run poison sting for its massive pp in the stall mirror; it gets chip and poisons and thus can be a toxic substitute. If you haven't seen it and think I'm crazy I don't blame you, but trust me here, it's been viable.
Water Pulse : Mega launcher makes water pulse ever so slightly better than surf.
My inspiration for the concept was tera ghost astonish dragapult, which is unfortunately trash, and the thought that the move water gun would be REALLY strong with water bubble and a tera bp boost. It's outclassed by something as simple as surf, but you can only use what you're given. I'm somewhat confident that with the right tools and the right metagame, almost any move could see legitimate use.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Name: The Missing Piece

Description: This Pokémon helps boost an underexplored or otherwise unviable archetype.

Justification: Sometimes the addition of new tools can vastly improve an archetype. We've seen this in SWSH OU with the addition of Slush Rush Arctozolt making Hail a much more viable playstyle, and again in SV OU with Walking Wake and Archaludon adding a new level of flexibility to Sun and Rain teams respectively.
Questions to be Answered:
1) What underexplored playstyles could have potential to do well in the CAP metagame?
2) What issues do the archetype currently face that we could fix with our CAP?
3) How far can we boost the viability of an archetype without it proving overwhelming?
4) How much of a CAP's identity should be tied to one archetype?

Explanation: This CAP seeks to boost an archetype that we currently don't see much of in CAP (such as Snow, Sand or Electric Terrain) by providing something the archetype may currently be missing. For example, Electric Terrain has the potential to be a strong archetype if it had any setter besides Pincurchin, and Snow has a variety of strong tools such as Aurora Veil and Chilly Reception but currently lacks any strong abusers.

 

[Maxomega]

Hey, so I'm interested to participate for this slate and I wanted to know if the following concept could be accepted.

Name: Luck your way!

Description: This CAP excels at using moves with varying base power.

Justification: Moves with varying base power, such as Magnitude, Psywave or Present have never seen usage in competitive due to their random nature and lackluster prowess. Magnitude has an average base power of 71, making the 15% chance of getting 110+ base power not even worth it; Psywave does, in average, the same damage as Seismic Toss, but is less consistent; and Present has the same gimmick as Magnitude, but can also heal the opponent. However, other moves, even though really specific, like Rollout and Round, have seen some usage. In Doubles, you can use Round with a fast partner, like Regieleki, and one slower but more powerful, like Choice Specs Sylveon, to surprise your opponent and get a fast KO. Rollout, or Echoed Voice, is more gimmicky and works somewhat like the Metronome. The latter is a niche item which has seen usage from Kyurem in ORAS OU to Basculegion in SV NU.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What moves can be categorized as varying base power?
• Why do the moves with varying base power don't usually work on the competitive scene?
• How would one balance these moves on a good user?
• Are these moves uncompetitive due to their randomness?

Explanation: All the moves that fall in this category are forgotten: Present has not received an update since ADV, Magnitude does not exist in SV and Psywave only got a boost in accuracy during XY, and I am probably forgetting others. Present had a somewhat interesting concept back in GSC due to the secondary typing mechanic, but it got simplified in ADV. This CAP would make use of these moves in a competitive manner. This doesn't mean reworking the effects of the aforementioned moves. For example, giving Technician to a Magnitude user would elevate the mean base power to 84.5, and giving Hard Press to a Present user would make use of the move restoring HP to the opponent.

NB: one could also categorize Scale Shot, Bullet Seed, Tail Slap and the likes as varying base power. This could lead to an easier concept maybe?

 

[viol and bass]

Name: Tortoise in the Warren

Description: This pokemon is designed primarily for, and fits well on, a specific team archetype with which it has a pacing mismatch.

Justification: Different types of teams win in different ways. A team's archetype largely dictates the pacing of the mons that are run on that style of team, meaning the length of time the mon is sticking around and how long it takes to do its job. On stall teams, the pokemon are built to last for ages while wearing things down very slowly. Recovery moves and significant bulk are almost mandatory, and often when one or two go down, the entire team begins to crumble. On hyper offense teams, the mons are built to go down quickly but not gently, often without switching out. You get a free switch if your mon dies, which enables an otherwise vulnerable teammate to come in and set up. For weather teams, weather is on a timer, getting your setter back in may not always be easy, and your primary abusers are often frail but may be granted a massive boost to their moves, all of which contribute to a high pacing. Different styles of offense exhibit this quick pace to different degrees. Pacing can also affect how quickly you expend resources; as an example, more offensive teams are more likely to run consumable items since they have a large effect relative to a mon's (short) existence in a given game, and relative to the length of the game itself.

This CAP is effective on a team style that is high-pace while being a low-pace mon, or vice versa. Some examples are Toxicroak or Mollux on rain teams, Scream Tail on sun teams, Weavile fat, Chansey offense, and balance teams with one fast, offensive speed control mon along with slow pivoting to get it in. Zamazenta can act as a bulky check to a lot of scary threats even on more offensive team styles, and Cresceidon can find a place on offensive teams with Rocky Helmet Rough Skin and Healing Wish. These examples are valid for the concept (Zama is maybe borderline), but it happens rarely enough that it's pretty easy for us to break new ground. If all goes well it finds new types of team synergies while exploring the boundaries of team archetypes.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Do Pokemon always benefit from coexisting with similar-paced pokemon? Are there cases where a mix is better (one example might be a slow bulky pivot bringing in a fast frail mon for free)?
• How can a mon be specifically tailored toward a team style it has a natural pacing mismatch with? What makes this mon desirable on such a team?
• Is there value in making a team more well-rounded by including disparate elements? Can this even make a team more cohesive?
• We're probably not bringing weather stall back, but can the pacing of this mon impact the overall pace of its team archetype?
• The most obvious approaches use an ability that primarily benefits from something like weather to kind of brute force it (examples being Dry Skin on Toxicroak/Mollux or Protosynthesis on Scream Tail). Is there depth in this approach? What other approaches are safe?
• How can a slow-paced pokemon that needs space to do its job down be supported by fast-paced teammates that might not stand the test of time?
• If an offensive pokemon is surrounded by slow-paced pokemon, what roles is it suited for beyond speed control? Can it for example break despite the lack of an offensive breaking core?

Explanation: I've been messing around with a defensive non-Hisuian Goodra on rain in OU (please make wiser choices than me). Hydration Rest is such a powerful tool that lets you heal status and return to full health in one turn, and it gets moves like Toxic, Knock Off, and Scald, and it's fairly hard to break. This mon has so many rain-related synergies, even down to its typing which resists Electric and Grass, both difficult types for standard Rain mons to handle. A mon like this which sits on the field healing repeatedly and requires many turns to wear things down doesn't fit naturally into the fast-paced playstyle of rain. The rain dries up quickly (beware of using Rest on the last turn of rain), and a standard rain team has trouble supporting it properly, but it's not that far off and there's something interesting there. That was part of what got me thinking about this concept.

Offensive pokemon on fatter team styles are probably some of the most solid examples of this concept in action (Weavile fat for example). There are obvious advantages in having for example a defensive pivot bring you on the field safely, and even fatter teams can enjoy the speed control and the pressure a mon like this can exert. How you tailor an offensive pokemon more toward fat than offense is a complicated question but I think potentially answerable.

There are a number of elements that are powerful but self-contradictory in terms of the pacing they lend themselves to. Rain Dish or Ice Body is at home on a mon that can sit on the field for long stretches of time, but the weather itself, as well as the pace of weather teams in general, is the limiting factor. Compare these abilities to Solar Power, which is a high-paced ability on a high-paced team style. There's much less friction making an ability like this work. Because we're creating a mon with that friction already assumed, elements with contradictions like this might be worth looking at.

Initially it might be tempting to just make a field effect setter or hazard setter or fat dual screener. I'm not sure this works though; even if they're bulky, these mons often aren't made to stick around long term, and sometimes they even prefer to die to bring something in safely. If it's built to last, that's a different story.

There are easier approaches here and there are harder ones. Weather has probably seen better days in general but the "tailoring" part is simple: you can potentially slap a weather-related ability on a pokemon with a slower-paced build and crank it up enough to be viable. Some HO variants are next to impossible; Blissey on Screens isn't doing much. Trick Room is not much easier. Team styles like balance and more generic offense are fairly interesting to me, because they're doable but tailoring the mon to that style requires more thought. Team styles like bulky offense are sort of in the middle, and the mismatch becomes hard to define. I think choosing a playstyle like this is best avoided.

 

[Gekokeso]

Hey, so I'm interested to participate for this slate and I wanted to know if the following concept could be accepted.

Name: Luck your way!

Description: This CAP excels at using moves with varying base power.

Justification: Moves with varying base power, such as Magnitude, Psywave or Present have never seen usage in competitive due to their random nature and lackluster prowess. Magnitude has an average base power of 71, making the 15% chance of getting 110+ base power not even worth it; Psywave does, in average, the same damage as Seismic Toss, but is less consistent; and Present has the same gimmick as Magnitude, but can also heal the opponent. However, other moves, even though really specific, like Rollout and Round, have seen some usage. In Doubles, you can use Round with a fast partner, like Regieleki, and one slower but more powerful, like Choice Specs Sylveon, to surprise your opponent and get a fast KO. Rollout, or Echoed Voice, is more gimmicky and works somewhat like the Metronome. The latter is a niche item which has seen usage from Kyurem in ORAS OU to Basculegion in SV NU.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What moves can be categorized as varying base power?
• Why do the moves with varying base power don't usually work on the competitive scene?
• How would one balance these moves on a good user?
• Are these moves uncompetitive due to their randomness?

Explanation: All the moves that fall in this category are forgotten: Present has not received an update since ADV, Magnitude does not exist in SV and Psywave only got a boost in accuracy during XY, and I am probably forgetting others. Present had a somewhat interesting concept back in GSC due to the secondary typing mechanic, but it got simplified in ADV. This CAP would make use of these moves in a competitive manner. This doesn't mean reworking the effects of the aforementioned moves. For example, giving Technician to a Magnitude user would elevate the mean base power to 84.5, and giving Hard Press to a Present user would make use of the move restoring HP to the opponent.

NB: one could also categorize Scale Shot, Bullet Seed, Tail Slap and the likes as varying base power. This could lead to an easier concept maybe?

Hi, its a good concept with a good writeup, but unfortunately a fairy beat you to it this time.

 

[is Angy]

There has been one thing I was wondering about and it was what if we had a non water type pistol shrimp pokemon,
I don’t care about it stats aside from being decent and able to be put on a team without your team being basically five Pokemon
That is all
Edit; give it either sniper or quick draw, or both

 

[Volsur]

There has been one thing I was wondering about and it was what if we had a non water type pistol shrimp pokemon,
I don’t care about it stats aside from being decent and able to be put on a team without your team being basically five Pokemon
That is all
Edit; give it either sniper or quick draw, or both

Hello! Unfortunately, this isn't how the CAP process works, the concepts here are more of an idea/part of the metagame that we create a CAP to fit. Typing, design and ability are all seperate discussions further down the line, and decided as a group, not by one person.

Check out this and this for a bit of an explanation, and feel free to ask in the simple questions thread if you still have any queries!
And welcome to CAP!

 

[Koleda]

first post but I've been lurking a while, here goes

Name: Too Many Cooks In The Kitchen

Description: A Pokemon that shares similar traits to other relevant Pokemon in the metagame, but still finds viability without completely outclassing other Pokemon itself.

Justification: When creating a Pokemon you have to make sure it stands out enough from other Pokemon, make a mon too similar to another and it risks being outclassed, or if it is viable it outclasses the other. What I'm asking is challenging yet possible: Create a mon that is similar to others but they coexist.

Questions To Be Answered:
- How similar to other Pokemon should we be?
- How many other Pokemon should we strive to be similar to?
- What kind of traits are worth replicating?

Explanation: This concept was inspired by CAP 38's Typing Leader, AzothBend, making a post where they say, and I quote: "CAP38 may benefit from avoiding competition with types that saturate the meta." I feel like that is absolutely true, both in the case of CAP 38 as well as most mons CAP makes. We're very afraid to make something too similar to another mon, and this concept challenges that. In terms of examples, one that comes to mind is Garbodor and Weezing in ORAS NU back in the day, both were mono Poison defensive Toxic Spikers in the meta but both were very viable.

 

[IGotEaten]

Here to provide some constructive criticism on 2 unreviewed concepts that I feel could be solid contenders for 39 (if it does end up being this gen ofc I can't see the future meta)

Too Many Cooks In The Kitchen
This one sticks out to me. We at CAP usually try to make something mostly unseen in OU, and the fact that this brazenly sticks against that idea, while still holding creative potential, interests me. Now, I would like to call out that you need to specify a little further how close niche-wise you are hoping to adhere. This current CAP may be something to look at, as it will certainly be a guiding force in how we handle, as I will now coin, "CopyCAPs." (If anyone has already coined this I'm sorry)

Tortoise in the Warren
This is an incredibly interesting concept, and something I feel could be very unique, especially considering Trick Room as a factor in the hypothetical process. However, I feel like there is one thing to be added in specific. I think your argument could potentially use some specific sets that really express the concept at a more specific level. (Consider this a repayment for your AMAZING review of what became Rigid Versatility)