Burungeru doesn't always use WoW, but almost all of them carry Boiling Water which has a decent 30% chance of burning. So currently, either they think you're using Iron Fist and they burn you on purpose with WoW, or they just get unlucky trying to kill you with Boiling Water. It and Nattorei, two extremely popular walls are great set up fodder for Roopushin. Roopushin's speed makes Gyro Ball pathetic in power which makes it rely on Power Whip, which after a Bulk Up does very little. Guts version doesn't even mind being paralyzed, although burn is preferred.Machamp might be a bit better in certain stats but it's the difference in movepool that is the dealbreaker for me. Machamp doesn't get Drain Punch or Mach Punch (Bullet Punch instead). It can't use Dynamic Punch with Guts. It would make a decent sleep talker but you'd only have one attack move with Bulk Up, or two without. Neither is very appealing.By all means though, give him a try and tell me how your experiences go, as I'm very curious. At best they may be interchangeable for bulky tanks, but I still favor Roopushin.
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Conkeldurr
- Thread starter Colonel M
- Start date
Burungeru doesn't always use WoW, but almost all of them carry Boiling Water which has a decent 30% chance of burning. So currently, either they think you're using Iron Fist and they burn you on purpose with WoW, or they just get unlucky trying to kill you with Boiling Water. It and Nattorei, two extremely popular walls are great set up fodder for Roopushin. Roopushin's speed makes Gyro Ball pathetic in power which makes it rely on Power Whip, which after a Bulk Up does very little. Guts version doesn't even mind being paralyzed, although burn is preferred.Machamp might be a bit better in certain stats but it's the difference in movepool that is the dealbreaker for me. Machamp doesn't get Drain Punch or Mach Punch (Bullet Punch instead). It can't use Dynamic Punch with Guts. It would make a decent sleep talker but you'd only have one attack move with Bulk Up, or two without. Neither is very appealing.By all means though, give him a try and tell me how your experiences go, as I'm very curious. At best they may be interchangeable for bulky tanks, but I still favor Roopushin.
I hate to further compare Machamp with Rohbushin, but does Machamp's access to Encore give it another edge over the clown? While Rohbushin definitely has the physical bulk to set up a Bulk Up or two, a well-predicted Machamp switch-in can come in on a less harmful move, Encore, and set up. I'm not certain how much of an advatntage this is, but hey, it's something.
I love Roo.
@ the quoted above (not the post above but what was quoted): Why wouldn't you run Stone Edge AND Payback?
Mach Punch/Superpower/Payback/Stone Edge @ flame orb is a great set.
@ the quoted above (not the post above but what was quoted): Why wouldn't you run Stone Edge AND Payback?
Mach Punch/Superpower/Payback/Stone Edge @ flame orb is a great set.
It'd have to be something slower than Machanp for that to work, and Machamp is only base 65 I believe and it wouldn't have the investments in it. It could come in on things slower than it like Nattorei and do it, but it doesn't really need to Encore Nattorei anyway like Roopushin doesn't have to. I don't see it being very useful. Maybe on something setting up Calm Mind.
EDIT* As for the person above me, why would you want to sacrifice Roopushin's fantastic bulk for Superpower? Just use Hammer Arm ir you want that much power. And We're specifically talking about a Bulk Up Guts set which pretty much mandates Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Mach Punch. The 4th move is for the user's discression but it seems Stone Edge seems to be the most useful.
EDIT* As for the person above me, why would you want to sacrifice Roopushin's fantastic bulk for Superpower? Just use Hammer Arm ir you want that much power. And We're specifically talking about a Bulk Up Guts set which pretty much mandates Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Mach Punch. The 4th move is for the user's discression but it seems Stone Edge seems to be the most useful.
30% chance to burn isn't really reliable. Walls like Sleep Talk Milotic can rely on it, but that's because of Marvel Scale and Dragon Tail. Will-O-Wisp is much more reliable for Burungel, and in reality, everyone knows that if Roobushin isn't subbing up, it's using Guts. A good strategy shouldn't rely on your opponent being ignorant.
Machamp needs neither Guts nor Sleep Talk to perform better as a Bulk Up user. I am trying this.
Machamp@Chesto Berry/Leftovers
Adamant - No Guard
252 HP - 206 Def - 48 SpDef - 6 Atk
Bulk Up
Rest
Dynamic Punch
Stone Edge
Dynamic Punch confuses common walls like Hippowdon, Skarmory and Suicune, who would freely Roar or Whirlwind Roobushin.
Rest beats Drain Punch in terms of recovery, so Machamp doesn't have to burn to death like Roobushin often does.
Never-Miss Stone Edge beats a shaky accuracy one any day.
Roobushin's advantages are higher HP, Defense, and Attack if it doesn't use a neutral Attack nature. Mach Punch has little utility outside of revenging Doryuzu, though Machamp wouldn't mind it in it's arsenal.
Even worse: Machamp has base 55 Speed. :P
It has better things to do than Encore Pokemon anyway.
Ah, I see. I had the feeling that Encore was a bit superfluous. It seems like a wasted moveslot when you could be recovering with Rest (why doesn't he get Drain Punch?) like you listed in your set or using Payback to deal with Ghosts (though I imagine most of them take a big hit from Stone Edge).
Wrong. It's STAB priority on probably the second best offensive typing in Pokemon, and on an insanely powerful Pokemon to boot. How about: KOing faster Pokemon before they attack? If you miss a KO by any percentage, Mach Punch means you can finish the job without taking any [more] damage. In combination with Drain Punch and respectable defenses, it isn't hard to see how he could indeed become a one-man army. Without these tools in its arsenal, Champ can't even dream of taking Roopushin's spot.
With 40(60 with Stab) Base Power, the only Pokemon it's OHKOing is Weavile. Max Attack Roobushin's +1 Mach Punch can't even OHKO Deoxys Attack Forme after SR. :\
Please don't overhype Mach Punch. It's great typed STAB priority, but it is honestly one of the less useful the priority moves (it's no Ice Shard). Hitting Pokemon like Doryuzu, Sazando, Tyranitar and Terakion are it's main draws. It doesn't really help Roobushin to abuse Bulk Up, either.
Drain Punch is utterly inferior to Machamp's Dynamic Punch, and until you boost it significantly, it does little damage. Roobushin is too slow to reliably heal with it outside of TR. Roobushin will get Whirlwinded by Skarmory 100% of the time. Machamp gets a WW about 50%.
I've given plenty of reasons why Machamp outperforms it as Bulk Up user. You ignore them all, and what you present in return is "Mach Punch is STAB Priority", "Drain Punch heals Roobushin", and a spiteful remark about Machamp. Srsly?
Please don't overhype Mach Punch. It's great typed STAB priority, but it is honestly one of the less useful the priority moves (it's no Ice Shard). Hitting Pokemon like Doryuzu, Sazando, Tyranitar and Terakion are it's main draws. It doesn't really help Roobushin to abuse Bulk Up, either.
Drain Punch is utterly inferior to Machamp's Dynamic Punch, and until you boost it significantly, it does little damage. Roobushin is too slow to reliably heal with it outside of TR. Roobushin will get Whirlwinded by Skarmory 100% of the time. Machamp gets a WW about 50%.
I've given plenty of reasons why Machamp outperforms it as Bulk Up user. You ignore them all, and what you present in return is "Mach Punch is STAB Priority", "Drain Punch heals Roobushin", and a spiteful remark about Machamp. Srsly?
Machamp is this Charlemagne's nigga. Don't mess wit him.
But seriously, there are a ton of great fighting types this gen. I'm not sure why Roobushin is getting all of the attention.
I've been outed. :(
All this time I've been poorly feigning neutrality. Yes, I like Machamp. Alot. I dream about his four muscly... Nah, that's probably going too far.
In reality, I just hate overhype, and it's never more common than when a new gen arrives and an asskicker like Roobushin appears on the scene. He's good, folks, just not a "one [Pokemon] army", like some suggest. He needs team support like most other non-Kyogre Pokemon.
Thing is, once you opponents special sweepers are dead, Roobushin can actually mean GG. Toxic and Burn both wear him down, but Roobu will be hitting harder in return. +1 Drain Punch after being statused hurts incredibly hard. Even non bulky pokemon that resist it usually take ~60% (starmie in the switch comes to mind). Besides, he has a freaking badass sprite! How can someone not love this guy? D:
My view of the matter between Roopushin and Machamp is that non rest-talking guts Machamp is simply outclassed. Roopushin does have 5% more attack and 24% more defense (assuming both have 252HP, 252Atk EV spreads), which seems pretty critical. Machamp has about 15% better special defense, and much more (though still quite low) speed.
So basically, Machamp needs to use his advantages over Roopushin, such as rest-talking, special defending, and greater speed. I don't think that a 252HP, 252Atk spread is the best for guts Machamp. Honestly, I'd recommend beefing up his special defense more, to help distinguish him from Roopushin.
So basically, Machamp needs to use his advantages over Roopushin, such as rest-talking, special defending, and greater speed. I don't think that a 252HP, 252Atk spread is the best for guts Machamp. Honestly, I'd recommend beefing up his special defense more, to help distinguish him from Roopushin.
^Check my Bulk Up Rest (No Talk) set. Beats the hell out of Drain Punching.
Machamp doesn't have much more speed than Roobushin (45 vs 55).
If Machamp ever uses Guts, Roobushin outclasses him. Roobushin is pretty much the best Guts Pokemon in the game.
No Guard, Stone Edge and Dynamic Punch are Machamp's niche.
And to be fair, +1 Dynamic Punch from a Adamant Machamp with no Attack EV's does 48.6-57.4% to Starmie and confuses. :(
I hate to feel like I'm bashing Roobushin. Everything you've said is true. I actually advocate the use of STAB Psychic on Pokemon like Starmie to stop this guy, and the multitude of other Fighting Type threats. Like Machamp! :D
Machamp doesn't have much more speed than Roobushin (45 vs 55).
If Machamp ever uses Guts, Roobushin outclasses him. Roobushin is pretty much the best Guts Pokemon in the game.
No Guard, Stone Edge and Dynamic Punch are Machamp's niche.
Any powerful offensive Pokemon can mean GG if all it's checks are gone. :/
And to be fair, +1 Dynamic Punch from a Adamant Machamp with no Attack EV's does 48.6-57.4% to Starmie and confuses. :(
I hate to feel like I'm bashing Roobushin. Everything you've said is true. I actually advocate the use of STAB Psychic on Pokemon like Starmie to stop this guy, and the multitude of other Fighting Type threats. Like Machamp! :D
But neither Roobu nor Machamp are OHKOd by a non specs Psychic from starmie, whilst they both ohko with payback ;3
If both have Max HP investment but no SpDef investment, Timid Starmie's 252SpAtk unboosted Psychic doesn't OHKO Machamp (73.4%-86.4%) but it has a tiny chance of OHKOing Roobushin (84.5-100.0%). Of course, Roobushin will have some SpDef investment to help it tank, but it could easily fall into KO range by abusing Guts.
Both of them really prefer Stone Edge over Payback.
Not sure how I missed this. It is painfully obvious that Machamp is much, much sexier than Roobushin. Admittedly, he should be wearing thong underwear, but that would probably be a bit much for a children's game.
I think you'd be right in that those 3 moves (and related moves) would work fine. Also great job on the write up. This thing looks just plan scaring, with a Focus Punch dominating nearly anything that isn't a Ghost or that doesn't double resist it.
But Desukan, Salamence and Gyarados love Roobushin who use Payback. :(
Glasses would make him look sexier.
Fun Fact: After just one Bulk Up. with Max HP and no Defense EVs, Roobushin has a good chance to survive a Sword Dance Jolly Garchomp's LO Outrage (85.7- 100.9%)! Of course, he'll get KOed on the next hit, but it's still impressive, and a testament to his physical Bulkiness!
Finally someone agrees that SubPunch is it's most threatening set. What fucking Pokemon can withstand Roobushin's Focus Punch that isn't a Ghost? It's the strongest damn Focus Punch in the game. Fuck.
63.1-74.8%
That's what +0 Focus Punch does to Impish Max/Max Skarmory. Remember that Focus Punch outprioritizes Whirlwind. Fuck Drain Punch.
If you're Bulked Up enough and statused, Stone Edge will still hurt it significantly. It's better than getting ability raped by Desukan, believe me.
Roobushin really shouldn't fuck with guys like Latios, who just MIGHT just run Psychic, especially if he stays OU. Switch to Scarf Tyranitar; he can take a DM. Psychic is a much better attacking type this Gen in OU because of guys like Roobu and Terakion.
I don't like Drain Punch for the power, I like it for keeping Roopushin alive and making the opponent tear there hair out. Not to mention with 2 Bulk Ups which is the goal it's plenty strong enough with the combination of Mach Punch. There in lies the beauty.I'm not trying to dismiss Machamp either. I think Machamp is awesome and I'm glad he's popular again unlike back in the RBY days where fighting was the worst type in the game after poison thanks to the psychic pokemon. But for what I'm going for and have experienced, I like the uggo clown more. Just that simple.Regarding the Garchomp scenario though, how much would the Drain Punch do to him in the same turn at +1? Cause he might be able to KO with Mach Punch the next turn, especially since Garchomp rarely goes bulky like Dragonite no?
+1 Roobushin? No Iron Fist would do 62% - 73.2%, with Iron Fist it's 74.6% - 88%. No Iron Fist Mach Punch does 33% - 39.4%, then Iron Fist Mach Punch does 40.2% - 47.2%.
So yes, you can practically KO Garchomp with +1 Drain Punch + Mach Punch, even without Iron Fist.
Edit: I misunderstood your question. Colonel M's answer is correct! Cool points for him!
If Garchomp SD'd as you Bulked Up, there won't be time for a Drain Punch and a Mach Punch.
And Iron Fist? :\ That's not so popular.
Edit: I misunderstood the question. Remember I discovered this first.
On a Sub Punch note, if you sub as Garchomp SD's, Garchomp is OHKOed by +0 Focus Punch. That's without Iron Fist. You'll have a lot more HP left to boot.
Way to strawman the question. Look at my last post, that is what he meant.