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Counter That Doubles Team #1 [Totem Vs Nollan] FIGHT!!! 1-0 Nollan

Ok, time for something to rekt Team 2 tbh:

talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 172 Spd / 84 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Fire Blast
- Tailwind
- Will-O-Wisp

In a toss-up between Infernape and Talonflame, I ended up picking Talonflame for a couple of reasons. Firstly, rn Ferrothorn is a bitch to this team, and Talonflame is a great option for taking it on. Fire Blast is a guaranteed OHKO on it, and considering it's the only thing we're going to be hitting with our Fire-type STAB anywas, I decided to go with it so we don't have to take Flare Blitz + Iron Bards recoil. Secondly, priority Brave Bird means it can outspeed Liepard's Prankster and OHKO it. It also handles Mega Pinsir and Conkeldurr with ease, and also does good damage to Jellicent, too. Finally, while this may seemingly weaken use to Tyranitar, Will-O-Wisp cripples it with ease, and even if it does manage to get a DD up, priority Tailwind means we can just bring in basically any one of out 'mons and revenge kill it. Rotom-W already deals with it p well anyways, and it can't set up on Mega Kan or else PuP. x_x Oh also the EVs allow us to outspeed Liepard and Brave Bird before it can Swagger us. Calc time :o

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Liepard: 339-399 (102.1 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Jellicent: 235-278 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- while not much, it means we can finish a weakened one off ez.
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 32 HP / 128 Def Conkeldurr: 374-445 (104.1 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 351-413 (126.7 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Life Orb Talonflame Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Ferrothorn: 380-452 (107.9 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Needs less 502 bad gateway erros. D:<

I'll give this a shot.
azumarill.gif

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Def
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

I ran team 2 through a team builder and found out that it doesn't like fire types one bit, barring Tyranitar and Jellicent. Those two alone would give any fire type, a lot of trouble (Rotom-Heat would've been my first fire-type pick if Washtom wasn't already taken).

This is where Banded Azumarill comes in. I eventually thought it'd be more important to take out those 2 fire resists as opposed to trying to harass the other 4 Pokemon with fire attacks. It adds a lot of power and utility to the first team: it has a super-effective move for almost everybody on the second team, and makes Jellicent think twice about setting up Trick Room; Azumarill here would "out-slow" everyone under Trick Room barring Ferrothorn and Jellicent.

Speaking of Jellicent, Azumarill can really take advantage of Togekiss's safeguard to put Jellicent in a tough spot should the two meet in battle: Nollan can no longer burn it, and he obviously doesn't want to lose Jellicent to knock off, so he'd have to switch to Ferrothorn to take it. If he does that, however, it loses its Lum Berry so Rotom-W can burn it later and effectively make Ferrothorn a non-issue (provided it hits ¬_¬). ...Or Totem could be really ballsy and predict the Ferrothorn switch-in and bop it with Superpower, gaining his right to a huge pop-off.

I went for the physical defensive bias, as team 2 literally only has one special move to use -Water Spout -which Azumarill resists (there's only a 3% difference in damage taken between Max HP and Max Def). Plus that gives Ferrothorn less HP back with Leech Seed, should it decide to use that instead of Power Whip for some reason. Among that, burn support, and safeguard support, Azumarill can maximize its time on the field to put the hurting on Nollan's team for as long as possible.
 
While looking through team twos team, terrakion instantly comes to mind:

Terrakion @ Life orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Quick Guard
- Protect

Although i was tempted to run taunt for jellicent, standard terrak works fine. This set helps in a few ways:
  • It is a major counter vs liepard, although pinsir's feint will disable it. Quick guard also helps vs conk
  • Gives us an ohko on 4 of their mons, ttar (no wp for you), ferro, pinsir, pard
  • also a 2hko on other 2 mons
This differs from standard terrak in two ways, firstly life orb>sash, to guarantee a ko on ferro and sash can easily be broken by a hit on ferro. Stone edge>rock slide because most of team 2 (apart from pinsir and cat) can take rock slides with ease, and there is no point in using it solely for flinch. Stone edge hit jelli much harder, creating a 2hko.

Although it may seems like we are weaker to conk + jelli, we really are not. Stone edge does 60% to jelli, meaning all but togekiss can finish it off (assuming kanga not mega'd), same with conk but even kiss can then ko.
 
Infernape @ Life Orb
Iron Fist
Naive Nature
24 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 212 Spe
-Flamethrower
-Mach Punch
-Thunder Punch
-Helping Hand

Speed outruns Mega Pinsir and Liepard, can be adjusted up if we expect Liepard or Pinsir will be made to be faster. We outrun them if we want to anyway 108 v 106/105. HP is a good LO number. Feint is NOT an OHKO: 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 24 HP / 20 Def Infernape: 188-224 (62.8 - 74.9%). Heat Wave doesn't land the OHKO on Mega Pinsir even if I move the 44 bulk into SpAtk, so I'm going Flamethrower.

0 SpA Life Orb Infernape Flamethrower vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 283-338 (102.1 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Life Orb Infernape Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Ferrothorn: 452-536 (128.4 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Liepard: 291-346 (87.6 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 328-390 (95.9 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Jellicent: 252-299 (62.3 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry (ok fine so there's a 1/256 chance it doesn't 2HKO, does it look like igaf?)
After eating a Thunder Punch and getting Sitrus Jellicent's Water Spout will deal 56.8%-82.9% to Infernape depending on both rolls, but regardless Infernape will live LO recoil + Water Spout 100% of the time.

We lose to Conkeldurr but that's fine.

Helping Hand is there so that we can get a move off before Fake Out, Feint, or Mach Punch hits us if we've fallen into its KO range. Also can be helpful if Infernape is out while Trick Room is up so that it can at least do SOMETHING.

Helping Hand Calcs!
60+ SpA Togekiss Helping Hand Air Slash vs. 32 HP / 96 SpD Conkeldurr: 408-480 (113.6 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Shadow Ball vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 262-309 (94.5 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 68+ SpD Jellicent: 390-462 (96.5 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
among many others, but I thought these were particularly notable.
 
The thing I really dislike about Infernape and Terrakion is that if Trick Room is set up, they're basically screwed. Infernape also cannot really touch Conkeldurr, while both Jellicent and Conkeldurr deal with Terrkion well. Finally, I don't like Infernape because it's weak to Feint, which weakens it immensely to the point where it's very easy to revenge kill.

I still find Talonflame to be out best option because it can function in Trick Room, Brave Bird for Mega Pinsir / Leipard / Conkeldurr, Fire Blast for Ferrothorn, and Will-O-Wisp for Tyranitar. We don't necessarily immediately threaten Jellicent, but a 2HKO is still pretty good IMO, as it allows us to finish it off once it's been weakened by one of our teammates.
 
The thing is Team 1 shuts down team 2's Trick Room option quite handily with Togekiss and Aegislash that it's not really that much of an issue. Terrakion is actually a strong fit, because it resists Tyranitar's STABs, hits Ferrothorn for super effective damage, and moves faster than Mega Pinsir (forcing it to use the weaker Feint instead of Return).

I don't agree with the particular Terrakion set that has been suggested, though. I think Terrakion wants to follow the pattern of team 1 and use Substitute. This way Terrakion can protect itself from status conditions and strong priority. Also Rock Slide is such a stupidly good move in Doubles, there's no reason not to use it over Stone Edge (unless Wide Guard, which team 2 lacks).

terrakion.gif
lumberry.png

Terrakion @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
- Protect

The standardized Sub set carries Life Orb, but I think the LO power boost is overkill against team 2 (3 Pokemon is already an easy OHKO, the other 2 is a 2HKO). Instead, I believe the extra status protection with Lum Berry will come in handy whenever Substitute/Safeguard is down. With Lum Berry, Terrakion essentially has nothing to fear from Liepard. Jellicent is also forced to Water Spout instead of going for the burn. Black Belt is another option that I am willing to consider if people convince me that it's better than Lum Berry (increased damage output against Ferrothorn and Conkeldurr).

Terrakion behind a Substitute would be a bitch though, firing off flinch slides and death combats while guaranteed to tank at least one attack. With Substitute, it can force the opponent to double-target Terrakion. With Togekiss, setting up Substitute with Terrakion would be facile, especially against a team with only one super-effective spread move.
 
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Pocket said:
The thing is Team 1 shuts down team 2's Trick Room option quite handily with Togekiss and Aegislash that it's not really that much of an issue. Terrakion is actually a strong fit, because it resists Tyranitar's STABs, hits Ferrothorn for super effective damage, and moves faster than Mega Pinsir (forcing it to use the weaker Feint instead of Return).

I don't agree with the particular Terrakion set that has been suggested, though. I think Terrakion wants to follow the pattern of team 1 and use Substitute. This way Terrakion can protect itself from status conditions and strong priority. Also Rock Slide is such a stupidly good move in Doubles, there's no reason not to use it over Stone Edge (unless Wide Guard, which team 2 lacks).

639.png
lumberry.png

Terrakion @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
- Protect

The standardized Sub set carries Life Orb, but I think the LO power boost is overkill against team 2 (3 Pokemon is already an easy OHKO, the other 2 is a 2HKO). Instead, I believe the extra status protection with Lum Berry will come in handy whenever Substitute/Safeguard is down. With Lum Berry, Terrakion essentially has nothing to fear from Liepard. Jellicent is also forced to Water Spout instead of going for the burn. Black Belt is another option that I am willing to consider if people convince me that it's better than Lum Berry (increased damage output against Ferrothorn and Conkeldurr).

Terrakion behind a Substitute would be a bitch though, firing off flinch slides and death combats while guaranteed to tank at least one attack. With Substitute, it can force the opponent to double-target Terrakion. With Togekiss, setting up Substitute with Terrakion would be easy, especially against a team with only one super-effective spread move.
Click to expand...

I honestly find Sub Terrak even worse... I don't think this thing will have very many opportunities to set up a Substitute when almost all of Team 2 has a super effective move against this thing. While Follow Me support remedies this somewhat, I don't think we can really rely on this for Substitutes, especially since Togekiss will also have to be supporting Kyurem-B to help it set up a Substitute. At the very least, Quick Guard Terrak helps a ton V Liepard and can also protect against Feint.

Also, I do agree Aegislash helps with Trick Room, but I don't feel as though Togekiss can do much. Right now, it seems as though we're going to be putting a lot of pressure on Togekiss for Substitutes, especially if we use Sub Terrak, and making it draw away attacks during Trick Room makes it seem as though we'd be putting even more pressure on it. I'd much rather have Talonflame, who doesn't require as much support, does better in Trick Room, and just seems to do overall better against Team 2.
 
Terrakion is not dependent on Substitute to be successful. It can very well function without Substitute. However, Sub Terrakion is arguably the most dangerous than whatever other variants that exist if it ever gets the chance to set up Substitute.

Feint breaks Quick Guard btw

Talonflame is a shaky answer to Tyranitar, and the final slot should be used to bolster the team's ability to halt Tyranitar's sweep and bust through Ferrothorn. It is too slow to burn a Tyranitar with already 1 DD under its belt, meaning that it's forced to suicide Tailwind before the bird is buried under a pile of rocks. By comparison Terrakion can stop Tyranitar's sweep with relative impunity and also severely cripple Ferrothorn.
 
Pocket said:
Terrakion is not dependent on Substitute to be successful. It can very well function without Substitute. However, Sub Terrakion is arguably the most dangerous than whatever other variants that exist if it ever gets the chance to set up Substitute.

Feint breaks Quick Guard btw

Talonflame is a shaky answer to Tyranitar, and the final slot should be used to bolster the team's ability to halt Tyranitar's sweep and bust through Ferrothorn. It is too slow to burn a Tyranitar with already 1 DD under its belt, meaning that it's forced to suicide Tailwind before the bird is buried under a pile of rocks. By comparison Terrakion can stop Tyranitar's sweep with relative impunity and also severely cripple Ferrothorn.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't think we really need to counter Tyranitar. I've always found it to be kind of a meh pick because it can't really safely set up until Rotom-W has been removed. Also, between Fake Out + PuP, Mega Khan can either KO Tyranitar, or at the very least weaken it to the point where BB from Talonflame can KO it.

Also while Terrakion is very scary behind a Substitute, I don't feel as though it will have very many, if any chances to set them up due to the amount of ways Team 2 has to break it.

Also I had no clue Feint broke Quick Guard, I seem to be learning something new about that move every day haha. Regardless, I do still feel as though its utility against Liepard would be more helpful that Substitutes potentially dangerous but otherwise limited uses.

Also Haruno besides helping against Mega Pinsir and slightly weakening Water Spout from Jellicent, I'm not really sure how much hazards would help us.
 
If I could be so kind as to help you frens wreck my "team":

Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 224 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance

Why people care about TTar and want to make the last slot yet another poke Ferro beats in TR is beyond me. Volc can Bug Buzz TTar and Liepard, Giga Jelli, and Heat Wave everything else easily with the support Khan and Toge provide. Fiery Dance is to avoid that horrifically tragic 5% miss rate on Heat Wave while trolling w/ SpA boosts, you can use Overheat if for some reason you want to help Aegi get OHKOd so TOTEM can help me win. With some Def investment Volc hard walls Ferro with its manly typing which is why you should vote for it.

Now obv Pinsir and TTar can combat it offensively. Pinsir is laughable anyway since Rotom and Aegi are on the team so that's easily handled. TTar will fall to a PuP + Sucker from Khan, burn from Rotom-W, and even if it somehow gets past those Volc can kill with mild prior damage and a well-played Aegi can drop its Atk. I believe Aegi has Wide Guard as well (if I'm wrong that's on whoever nominated it without using Wide Guard) so Volc can get a Bug Buzz off with that support option making finishing the job simple.

PS- if you want my semi-professional opinion you should let me build the counter teams next time, that way we can just skip to the battle (now go find a trollface and then pretend I put it at the end of this post bcuz I'm too lazy to go find one)
 
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Nollan said:
Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: enough SpA to OHKO my Ttar in sand if possible; enough speed to out speed my TTar; rest in Def bcuz my team has no Special Attackers (Jellicent don't count it hits like a pebble) idec you guys figure out the exact EVs to do this
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance
Click to expand...

Volcarona @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 224 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 332-392 (97 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Outspeeds TTar by 1 point.

cmon man this took like 10 seconds
 
FINAL VOTE:
Current Team 1 Line Up:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 228 HP / 28 SDef / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Aegislash @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Safeguard
- Air Slash

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
Opponent's Team 2 Line Up:
Jellicent @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 76 SpA / 68 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Water Spout
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Recover

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Def / 96 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch
- Detect

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly nature
- Return
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Protect

Liepard @ Dread Plate
Prankster
Jolly Nature
208 Spe / 252 HP / 24 Def / 24 SpD
-Fake Out
-Encore
-Foul Play
-Swagger

Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 16 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Sandstream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Protect
VOTE!!! :afrostar::afrostar::afrostar:
 
Pwnemon said:
sub terrakion is entirely liepard bait though i'd rather go with nollan's Volcarona
Click to expand...
Lum Terrakion is anything but Liepard bait x_x. More like Lum Terrakion eats Liepard for breakfast.

solution: don't use sub if Liepard is out / Togekiss isn't out.
 
Sub Terrakion

The thing that deters me from voting Volc is the specs. Despite it being able to KO just as many if not more Pokemon than Terrak, it has to switch out every time, which will definitely prove annoying. Still, a close call.
 
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