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Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]

vyomov said:
The only reason I did not cite SR vs Golurk is: a) Golurk takes minimal damage from SR(Leftovers) and Weavile is OHKOed by Earthquake
The main reason I support Golurk or any other Ghost type is that it can freely switch in onto a CC and E-quake back
It also deals with Zapdos(zapdos cannot volt switch away whereas Iron Fist boosted Ice Punch hits hard)
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Lavos already proved to you that it can't handle Zapdos, as HP Ice does a crap-ton of damage, and Zapdos outspeeds Golurk anyway. As for Weavile, you have to understand that your Golurk has to be able to tank a Stone Edge AND an Ice Punch from Weavile, which it can't do. Golurk just isn't a good choice for Team 1 at this point. Yes, it does a good job of countering Terrakion, but it does very little to support the rest of the team outside of Rocks. Other than that, it's just a sitting duck.
 
Check the calcuations again:
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 146-174 (38.21 - 45.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
How does it not handle Zapdos then? It gets a free switch in on Volt Switch and can Ice Punch back
 
Also, it has Shadow Punch and E-quake to take care of psychic types, electric types,fire types,poison types, rock types and finally steel types(not to mention Ice Punch)
How isn't it supporting the team then??
 
vyomov said:
Also, it has Shadow Punch and E-quake to take care of psychic types, electric types,fire types,poison types, rock types and finally steel types(not to mention Ice Punch)
How isn't it supporting the team then??
Click to expand...

It's not supporting the team very well because... well, because it's just kind of bad. It's really slow with only base 55 speed, and it has five common weaknesses (including water, ice, grass, ghost and dark). Furthermore, because it's slow, it'll probably have to stomach an attack before it can dish one out, and while 89/80/80 defenses aren't awful, they're not exactly inspiring either. Also, 124 attack may be good, but there's stuff in OU that hits harder still.

And when it comes right down to it - what can Golurk do that other pokes can't? There's plenty of stuff that can hit hard in OU; but Golurk really struggles to differentiate itself from them, due to poor speed, and bad weaknesses that undermine it's bulk. Come right down to it, Golurk can do exactly two things for team 1: it can spinblock, and it can take on Terrakion. But that's it.

And of course, Slowbro takes on Terrakion pretty effectively bar Stone Edge anyway, so honestly Golurk is just flat out redundant. Even if you wanted to use it as a spinblocker for some reason, it will pretty much suck at that, because team 2 will just choose Starmie and lol.
 
Starmie's weak to Shadow Punch LOL
GOlurk is my favored simply because it gets free switch ins unlike the alternatives
 
The point is you were (and still are) arguing as if its one rule for you, and a different one for everyone else to follow. You cannot "pick and choose" having SR as it skews your calculations.

Your consistently assuming SR or Spikes is up against your opponent when arguing for Golurk (or that the mons are not using Leftovers), while maintaining that SR / Spikes is not up on your own side of the field when taking hits defensively. In addition, many of your arguments are flawed and a number of people have commented on this.

Please don't let your personal bias get in the way of your arguments or I will be forced to delete your posts, as they add nothing to the thread and derail good discussion.
 
vyomov said:
Starmie's weak to Shadow Punch LOL
GOlurk is my favored simply because it gets free switch ins unlike the alternatives
Click to expand...
Whether or not Starmie is weak to Shadow Punch is utterly irrelevant, the point Kidogo was making is that Golurk can't function as a spin blocker due to the simple fact that team 2 can easily choose Starmie, a Pokemon that outspeeds and OHKOs Golurk, so obviously Golurk can't switch in on Starmie.

You also mentioned Golurk has free switch ins that other picks lack, these are nonexistant. If you're referring to switching in on Terrakion, all the good picks can too, it's true that they can't switch in on Close Combat as easily, but that's not even an argument because that was the whole point of the previous pick. If you're arrogating that Golurk can switch in on Zapdos easier then you're sorely mistaken. It doesn't compare to the likes of Swampert who is immune to Zapdos, resistant to fire, and neutral to Hidden Power [Ice], an unstabbed base 70 power move.

You really seem to be letting personal bias cloud your judgement, please listen to these arguments and really evaluate what the best pick is, if you are unable to do so then maybe you should go lurk more. Keep in mind there are no prizes for the poster of the best set.

EDIT: That's very wise vyomov, I have a lot of respect for anyone that can admit to their mistakes. Also, I hope you got my "go lurk" joke xD
 
Alright, firstly I'd like to apologize to everybody on this thread if I have hurt anybody's sentiments by overly pushing my set and by introducing personal bias.
Having said that, the only reason I'm reintroducing Golurk again and again into the forum is simply because of the high level of bias against Golurk as well(I believe with the right support it does have potential). I also want discussion into a set before the set is outright dismissed.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank all those that have taken the time to evaluate the set and have provided constructive feedback re the viability of Golurk in this context.
If possible, I'd like to change my vote to Jirachi as I feel it is the best possible Pokemon in this situation
 
We're in voting stage ATM, not set submissions. You aren't aloud to post new sets yet.
 
It is now.


  • Gastrodon: 1
  • Swampert: 1
  • Golurk: 1
  • Spdef Jirachi: 3
  • Conkeldurr: 3
  • Cobalion: 5
  • Mixed Jirachi: 5
  • Total Votes: 20


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There was one vote that failed to specify which Jirachi set so I'll just use it as the tie breaker.

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Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 200 HP / 76 Spd / 152 SAtk / 80 Atk
Naive Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Icy Wind

Now it's time to pick the third member for Team 2.
 
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Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt

The best choice is something that can beat all 3 of team ones pokemon while maintaining momentum, and Speccialy defensive Rotom-W is the perfect choice. Its pretty obvious why rotoms a good choice. Hes one of the better checks for landorus-i in the meta, as he can take a focus miss and fire back with a hydropump. Slowbro can barely touch rotom, and doesnt like taking a volt switch. Rotom also doesn't really care about being paralyzed. Pretty much walls the very weak jirachi set that was chosen, and can wear it down with burn/hydropumps. Rotoms a great pick.

Edited: Replaced painslpit with tbolt to better counter slowbro,. (as pointed out by Melee Mewtwo)
 
You'll need Thunderbolt somewhere or more punch in your EVs if you want Rotom-W to beat Slowbro.

28 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 194-230 (49.36 - 58.52%) -- 64.06% chance to 2HKO

Slowbro can easily just Slack Off whenever you Volt Switch which basically forces its counter to switch out of it. Also, without T-Wave that set is very easy for something powerful like Hydreigon or Latios to take advantage of with little to no risk involved. (even with T-Wave they can still come in although that'll obviously cripple them in general)

Team 1 is very weak to SpDef Skarm although I kinda want to wait before we consider adding it in since at this point Magnezone is a very viable counterpick. (whereas if we wait til Team 2 decides team members 5 and 6 we can put pressure on Team 1's lone final pick and make sure that Magnezone would be a very bad idea)

152 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 180-214 (53.89 - 64.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(considering Thunder's 70 accuracy this isn't great)

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 124-146 (37.12 - 43.71%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 183-216 (54.79 - 64.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

(same song as Jirachi)


Edit: Nobody has reserved Weavile so go ahead and suggest sets. (not sure where you got that from, you might want to review the original post first in case the process is a bit confusing)
 
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Seismtoed @ Leftovers
EVs: 240 HP, 68 Def, 44 SpA, 156 SpD
Calm Nature
Trait: Water Absorb
~Stealth Rock
~Toxic
~Earth Power
~Scald

Jirachi, eat your heart out. And Slowbro too. Hell, even Lando does not like our friend here much. Seismitoed is a great pokemon for Team 2 to use, even if it is a NU. Seismitoed lays out helpful rocks, allowing us to whittle away at Landorus-I easier, while providing useful damage on Slowbro on the switch in, which makes a KO easier if its at around 88% health than 100%. Jirachi may not mind SR, but its SR, what can you say. Seismitoed also can provide useful Toxics, forcing chip damage on Slowbro and Lando-I, to the point of neutering Slowbro as a wall and making Lando-I easier to handle. Earth Power is nice on handling Jirachi, punishing its Naive nature and allowing a guarenteed 2HKO on Jirachi after rocks. Scald is almost always a OHKO on Lando after Rocks. Now the question is, why not use Swampert? Well, Seismitoed has Water Absorb, which is great for stopping a Slowbro Scald on Terrakion...


44 SpA Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 200 HP / 0- SpD Jirachi: 200-236 (51.15 - 60.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

80 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Seismitoad: 59-70 (14.25 - 16.9%) -- 9HKO at best
 
not sure if this is allowed, so i guess i'll ask first: can we just use u-turn sheer force landorus for pokemon 3 on team 2? i've gone through every pokemon i can think of and landorus seems like the best fit, it can ohko slowbro after just a bit of prior damage and u-turn out if it's not in range yet, plus it ohkos jirachi with earth power and speed ties with the opponent's very same landorus. i know it's sort of boring and redundant but it's the best option we have right now. landorus is a big threat, why not utilize it to its maximum potential?
 
You can use the same mon on both teams however the problem with that pick is that it is not fulfilling the desired role of countering both Slowbro and Jirachi. Neither of these picks are very offensive so it'll be fairly easy to find something dangerous that can switch in on them.
 
ah apologies for not making my vote clearer. i didn't realise there was another jirachi set posted, i just remember liking heist's jirachi set and hence i voted for that without really looking through all the options.

will submit something later.
 
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Gastrodon @ Leftovers
252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, - Atk)
Trait: Storm Drain
-Recover
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Toxic

Gastrodon just doesn't care about Slowbro and Jirachi at all (unless Jirachi gets 8 or 9 flinches in a row with Iron Head, around a 1% chance). On the flip side, it cripples Slowbro with Toxic and does around 50% to Jirachi with Earth Power. Landorus can put a decent dent in Gastrodon with Earth Power, but it's almost never a 2HKO after Stealth Rock, while Gastrodon does 96% at minimum to Landorus with Ice Beam. Gastrodon also has Recover, making it very hard to wear down. As for the EVs, they're poured in to special bulk to take hits from Landorus as well as possible.

There are a few other options for attacks, mainly Counter, Mirror Coat, Earthquake, Surf and Scald. These weren't chosen because they don't have any utility against the current team 1. Surf/Scald can't OHKO Landorus and Earthquake does as much as Earth Power to Jirachi, while the former two aren't that great if the opponent knows they're there. If you disagree with my attack and EV choices please say so.

A very similar choice has been nominated, and that's Seismitoad. The two have very similar stats, Gastrodon has Recover and Ice Beam over Seismitoad, while Seismitoad has Stealth Rock. Gastrodon is probably a better pick because Seismitoad tends to get 2HKOed by Landorus after Stealth Rock even with maximum SpD investment, and can't even OHKO it in turn. It also gets worn down very easily. Stealth Rock doesn't seem desparately important on a member at this point, but that is Seismitoad's advantage over Gastrodon.

As for Gastrodon's disadvantages, it certainly has them. Grass-types are public enemy number one. In particular, Ferrothorn has no trouble setting up hazards on Gastrodon and Celebi can be customized to do whatever it wants without ever caring about Gastrodon. Landorus' U-turn makes Grass-types even more annoying, as it can keep the offensive momentum on a Gastrodon switch-in. If Gastrodon is selected, something that can put pressure on Celebi would be a good fourth choice.
 
Honestly... I never thought I'd propose Blissey for one of these things, but it completely wrecks Team 1 at the moment. It can also support the team with Aromatherapy and / or Wish, giving Terrakion and Zapdos as many opportunities as possible. Slowbro can't touch it, paralyzing it doesn't matter, and Blissey can use Toxic to just wear it down. Jirachi has no recovery, so seismic toss can wear it down. Landorus has to hope for a SpD drop, and we can just use Ice Beam. Nobody can actually kill Blissey. So if we want, we can just use Heal Bell / Aromatherapy to get rid of all paralysis (or anything else), and then even use Wish, if need be.

A specially defensive Vaporeon works for the same reason--doesn't care about Slowbro, can cleanly survive 2 Earth Powers from Landorus and KO back with Scald or Ice Beam (and stall with protect), and can easily survive and even stall out Jirachi's Thunders since they aren't boosted in any way. Meanwhile, it helps the team with Heal Bell, Wish, burns...

And the nice thing about either of these picks is that they pretty much full stop Team 1, so Team 2's fourth pick can go COMPLETELY offensive with almost no regard for anything else.

I'll be submitting one of these later. Interested to see which one people would ultimately prefer I submit. I obviously like Vaporeon better, and I've never liked Blissey, but the threat of both is very present.
 
relaunched said:
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Gastrodon @ Leftovers
252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, - Atk)
Trait: Storm Drain
-Recover
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Toxic

Gastrodon just doesn't care about Slowbro and Jirachi at all (unless Jirachi gets 8 or 9 flinches in a row with Iron Head, around a 1% chance). On the flip side, it cripples Slowbro with Toxic and does around 50% to Jirachi with Earth Power. Landorus can put a decent dent in Gastrodon with Earth Power, but it's almost never a 2HKO after Stealth Rock, while Gastrodon does 96% at minimum to Landorus with Ice Beam. Gastrodon also has Recover, making it very hard to wear down. As for the EVs, they're poured in to special bulk to take hits from Landorus as well as possible.

There are a few other options for attacks, mainly Counter, Mirror Coat, Earthquake, Surf and Scald. These weren't chosen because they don't have any utility against the current team 1. Surf/Scald can't OHKO Landorus and Earthquake does as much as Earth Power to Jirachi, while the former two aren't that great if the opponent knows they're there. If you disagree with my attack and EV choices please say so.

A very similar choice has been nominated, and that's Seismitoad. The two have very similar stats, Gastrodon has Recover and Ice Beam over Seismitoad, while Seismitoad has Stealth Rock. Gastrodon is probably a better pick because Seismitoad tends to get 2HKOed by Landorus after Stealth Rock even with maximum SpD investment, and can't even OHKO it in turn. It also gets worn down very easily. Stealth Rock doesn't seem desparately important on a member at this point, but that is Seismitoad's advantage over Gastrodon.

As for Gastrodon's disadvantages, it certainly has them. Grass-types are public enemy number one. In particular, Ferrothorn has no trouble setting up hazards on Gastrodon and Celebi can be customized to do whatever it wants without ever caring about Gastrodon. Landorus' U-turn makes Grass-types even more annoying, as it can keep the offensive momentum on a Gastrodon switch-in. If Gastrodon is selected, something that can put pressure on Celebi would be a good fourth choice.
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Nice suggestion. However...
44 SpA Seismitoad Scald vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Landorus: 276-328 (86.52 - 102.82%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Also, Stealth Rocks, while not directly doing much but screwing Lando into a OHKO, do help a ton. Several late game sweepers, such as Dragonite, Kyurem B, Salamence, Thundurus T, and Volcarona all are weakened severely. Stealth Rocks put pressure on Team 1, as they either A) gravitate towards not SR weak pokes, making them easy to predict, or B) choose a spinner, none of which have that good of a match up vs Seismitoed...
 
Thinking about submitting Magnezone, as STAB Electric is useful against Slowbro and it can trap Jirachi and dent it with HP Fire while resisting all moves except HP Ground (Balloon?)
I want more feedback first, I don't think it's the best choice but will submit it based off feedback. I don't know if Substitute +3 Attacks with a balloon is viable though, and Choice Scarf lacks superb power to me w/o Charge Beam. I'd pick Choice Scarf personally due to the lower speed factor. Calcs against Jirachi with HP Fire:
252SpAtk Magnezone (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 200HP/0SpDef Jirachi (-SpDef): 48% - 56% (188 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 20% chance to 2HKO. Delete
252SpAtk +1 Magnezone (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 200HP/0SpDef Jirachi (-SpDef): 71% - 84% (280 - 330 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

So yeah I guess scarf wouldn't be that bad after hazards, even a little damage would be helpful (8% turns non-boosted into a guaranteed 2HKO)

I figure I should probably post this too:
152SpAtk Jirachi (Neutral) Hidden Power (Ground) vs 40HP/0SpDef Magnezone (Neutral): 87% - 104% (256 - 304 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 27% chance to OHKO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a 40 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe spread is still enough to outspeed Jirachi. Either way, it's not looking pretty for Magnezone, so maybe Hazards are absolutely necessary for this to work. Not that I'm submitting it now, I would just like some discussion and feedback first.
 
Okay, I like Rotom-W but I'm not a big fan of the defensive spread. There's been a lot of defensive suggestions and selections recently and I think we should really lay on the pressure now that Team 1 has been pushed into picking weak mons like Slowbro and Jirachi in response to CB Terrakion.

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Rotom (Rotom-Wash) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 SDef
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

What does this set do? With the rise of so many new fast and powerful attackers in BW2, Rotom-W has been pushed to make up for its mediocre speed by taking advantage of its defensive typing and respectable bulk with the bulky attacker set. However, the CtP project is similar to the bulky offense metagame of old BW where sets like Choice Specs offensive 4 attacks Rotom-W (Thanks TGMDoom) could flourish. The two new recent picks (Jirachi and Slowbro) don't pack much punch and they lack in their arsenal of coverage moves a means to significantly harm Rotom-W allowing it to trade that extra bulk for the power it needs to push past these more defensive choices and pressure any future ones. Volt Switch is not only Rotom's electric STAB but also an incredibly useful utility move that also deals the needed Super Effective damage to remove Slowbro. Hydro Pump is the STAB move with the punch and also has fantastic synergy with Volt Switch as it punishes any ground types that dare try to block the annoying Volt Switch. Hidden Power Grass rounds out the coverage by hitting all the ground types that Hydro Pump doesn't drown (namely Gastrodon). Signal Beam manhandles those pesky Celebi and other assorted grass types as well as keeping the levitating dragons, Hydreigon and Latios, at bay.

252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 312-370 (79.18 - 93.9%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 41-48 (13.48 - 15.78%) -- possible 7HKO

252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 200 HP / 0- SpD Jirachi: 207-244 (52.94 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

152 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 95-112 (31.25 - 36.84%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

(70% accuracy on top of everything. The other moves aren't even worth showing calcs for as they can't even hit 9% on a good day)

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 191-226 (62.82 - 74.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

(Still checks the bugger)

252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-W Signal Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 173-204 (57.28 - 67.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-W Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 269-322 (66.58 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-W Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon: 307-365 (72.06 - 85.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

How can this set help the team? Not only does it hard counter both of Team 2's latest picks but it also puts immense pressure on their future ones. It provides the team with the ever useful Volt Switch utility and can pick apart the opposing team with its flexibility and strong array of coverage moves. It has good synergy with the rest of the team as it buys the fragile Terrakion free switch-in and can partner up with Zapdos to force Lando-I into a difficult prediction game.

What can the other team do in response to this set? The goddesses of special walls, Chansey and Blissey, have the raw special bulk to laugh at anything Rotom-W could dream of throwing at them. Dragon types that lack the secondary flying/ground typing or bug weakness, like Haxorus or Kyurem(-B), can easily switch into Rotom's attacks and threaten back with their own mighty attacks. Bulky Dragonite can sponge Rotom's blows as well, however, the SR weakness and neutral Volt Switch damage means it'll have a tough time repeatedly switching in on Rotom's scout spamming. Grass types that aren't weak to bug such as Virizion, Amoongus, Roserade and Ferrothorn all take a pittance for the appliance's attacks and can strike back with SE STAB grass attacks.

What potential additions can be made to deal with these responses? Scizor has been the traditional partner for Rotom-W and once again it can pair up with its longtime companion to not only form a powerful Volt-Turn core but also to switch in on the likes of Chansey and Blissey while also checking the dragon types that pester the washing machine. (these dragons also conveniently lack an actual fire attack beyond Hidden Power) Even the assorted flowers/fungi aren't going to like the looks of Scizor if they lack HP Fire. Heatran and Magnezone can both take care of a Ferrothorn pick (the only one that Scizor wouldn't be ideal at checking) while remaining generally useful in their own ways. Heatran can also take care of the other bulky grass types assuming they opt for HP Fire. (although a lot of them won't like a prio CB Bullet Punch) If you are as paranoid about Ferro's Spikes as I am, a Forretress can always be picked to remind the durain who's bitch he is. (plus he has Volt Switch)
 
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Garchomp @ Life Orb
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Swords Dance

This Garchomp is an absolute monster. Although Garchomp doesn't counter Jirachi, Zapdos is already a pretty decent check, and together they will do well enough at preventing Jirachi doing much. Garchomp keeps Jirachi away and it can easily switch in on most of Jirachi's moves and then put team 1 in a really bad position. In addtion, Garchomp laughs in the face of Landorus because it outspeeds by 1 base point, and Slowbro can't hope to stop Garchomp because it has almost no chance of taking a +2 Life Orb boosted STAB Outrage after Stealth Rock, and even if it manages to survive, it will be softened up a lot for Terrakion, allowing it to simply Close Combat spam the entire opposing team. This Garchomp will be incredibly difficult to counter, and even if team 1 chooses the likes of Skarmory, it really won't be able to eat many +2 Life Orb boosted STAB Outrages, and if it uses Whirlwind then it could bring out Zapdos or Terrakion, both of which can force Skarmory out. I decided it would be best to make this the Stealth Rock set because one of the largest problems with team 1 last time was that our Stealth Rock setter couldn't apply enough offensive pressure discourage members of the opposing team from switching in and setting up (Mamoswine was too weak to keep Skarmory away, and letting Skarmory come in for free means free hazards). Garchomp doesn't have this problem because it's easily one of the most offensive Stealth Rockers in existence, in fact it probably is the single most offensive Stealth Rocker, nothing could ever dream of setting up on this Garchomp, nor would many spinners or Magic Bouncers switch in on Garchomp. In addition, it's useful to get a Pokémon with Stealth Rock on the team as soon as possible, that way we can focus on just making the team the best possible rather than restricting our choices down to Pokémon that learn Stealth Rock later on. It's much better to choose a Pokémon that is a really good choice with Stealth Rock now, rather than not going with an optimal choice later on just because it lacks Stealth Rock. Overall, Garchomp is exactly what we need: a good answer to Jirachi (and the rest of their team for that matter), great offensive synergy with the rest of the team, softening up team 1's counters, very, very difficult to counter, and it even has the added bonus of Stealth Rock.
 
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