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Gen 6 Counter That Uber Pokemon! (Round 3 Nomination Stage)
- Thread starter Tomahawk
- Start date
This thread seems to have come to a standstill, its a nice idea so ima post a nomination to get the ball rolling again.
Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
Momentum gainer, great revenge killer, powerhouse. As Hack mentioned earlier that Dialga set is a shaky check to Zekrom, so lets take advantage of that and limit their next choices. Team 1 is now forced to run a Fairy or Ground type to keep Zekrom guessing and just to keep it in check in general. Its nice to have a Choice Scarf user as well, and Zekrom is one of the best.
Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
Momentum gainer, great revenge killer, powerhouse. As Hack mentioned earlier that Dialga set is a shaky check to Zekrom, so lets take advantage of that and limit their next choices. Team 1 is now forced to run a Fairy or Ground type to keep Zekrom guessing and just to keep it in check in general. Its nice to have a Choice Scarf user as well, and Zekrom is one of the best.
Been meaning to post here for a while since I really like this project but, well, yeah.
Anyways, there's a lot of things I could probably say about best early game plan and all but I'm too lazy for all that. The important thing to keep in mind is that the building process in this project is totally diff from a normal one. Course there are some similarities but the thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to build a good team, just the one that will beat the one you are building against.
Which brings us to the Dialga we need to deal with. Personally, I don't think picking a hazard setter so early on was a good idea because there's a full 6 slots to punish it with but it's not as bad as it may seem. The nice thing about this Dialga set is that it's not just about setting SR, it has some nice offensive pressure that it can place and isn't super simple to deny free turns.
This is why I don't think it's a good idea to pick Ho-Oh just yet. It's true that the team did start off with a weakness to it but picking Ho-Oh now will look us into that hazard game and shit which I don't think we really want to run into just yet. There's nothing that says that Team 1 just can't pick another SR setter as their final pick (they pick last) to completely fuck over all our attempts to stop SR.
Speaking of the last pick, if team 2 doesn't want to get utterly screwed over by that it needs to make sure team 1 isn't getting free picks. The best way to do that is to pick the most aggressive (not necessarily by damage output) mons possible while countering whatever they choose so that we can bend their picking process to our will.
I feel like the best option here isn't so much a direct answer to Dialga, since the majority (CM Arceus, Ho-Oh) will limit our options later on or are just very unaggressive by nature (Blobs...). I think we should just note down those handful of key weaknesses that Dialga has and worry about it later on when we aren't just picking to beat Dialga, but catch a few other threats with the same net. For now I think our best options are things that just have a favorable one-on-on matchup with this Dialga set (as a minimum). Stuff like Jolly Groudon / Lando-T are a good examples. Don't limit your options to something so regular, we can also go for something you wouldn't normally use like Choice Specs Heatran. It may normally be too gimmicky to consider but here we already know in advance that there is at least one Pokemon we can punish with it so it will put in work during battle.
I'm not going to post my own suggestion cause, again, lazy but also to let you guys fiddle with the ideas. Keep in mind, like Specs Heatran, gimmicks in general work a lot better in this project because we don't have to worry about any games where the mon/set would be useless and not do what it is built to do.
-MM2
Anyways, there's a lot of things I could probably say about best early game plan and all but I'm too lazy for all that. The important thing to keep in mind is that the building process in this project is totally diff from a normal one. Course there are some similarities but the thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to build a good team, just the one that will beat the one you are building against.
Which brings us to the Dialga we need to deal with. Personally, I don't think picking a hazard setter so early on was a good idea because there's a full 6 slots to punish it with but it's not as bad as it may seem. The nice thing about this Dialga set is that it's not just about setting SR, it has some nice offensive pressure that it can place and isn't super simple to deny free turns.
This is why I don't think it's a good idea to pick Ho-Oh just yet. It's true that the team did start off with a weakness to it but picking Ho-Oh now will look us into that hazard game and shit which I don't think we really want to run into just yet. There's nothing that says that Team 1 just can't pick another SR setter as their final pick (they pick last) to completely fuck over all our attempts to stop SR.
Speaking of the last pick, if team 2 doesn't want to get utterly screwed over by that it needs to make sure team 1 isn't getting free picks. The best way to do that is to pick the most aggressive (not necessarily by damage output) mons possible while countering whatever they choose so that we can bend their picking process to our will.
I feel like the best option here isn't so much a direct answer to Dialga, since the majority (CM Arceus, Ho-Oh) will limit our options later on or are just very unaggressive by nature (Blobs...). I think we should just note down those handful of key weaknesses that Dialga has and worry about it later on when we aren't just picking to beat Dialga, but catch a few other threats with the same net. For now I think our best options are things that just have a favorable one-on-on matchup with this Dialga set (as a minimum). Stuff like Jolly Groudon / Lando-T are a good examples. Don't limit your options to something so regular, we can also go for something you wouldn't normally use like Choice Specs Heatran. It may normally be too gimmicky to consider but here we already know in advance that there is at least one Pokemon we can punish with it so it will put in work during battle.
I'm not going to post my own suggestion cause, again, lazy but also to let you guys fiddle with the ideas. Keep in mind, like Specs Heatran, gimmicks in general work a lot better in this project because we don't have to worry about any games where the mon/set would be useless and not do what it is built to do.
-MM2
Thanks for posting guys, it has been a little inactive this round. Actually, I'll nominate something myself:
Landorus-T @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off
I've considered Sweep's comments, and I am nominating Jolly Landorus-T. Choice Band, to be exact. I feel that it may not be the best idea to pick our Stealth Rock setter first for Team 2 as well, and Choice Band Landorus-T is in fact a very threatening Pokémon; 145 base Attack is nothing to scoff at. Besides that, Landorus-T has good coverage with just Earthquake and Stone Edge so it can afford to use utility moves in the last two slots. U-turn is great, because things that can take hits from easily are usually relatively easy to take advantage of with other mons. Knock Off is also really good, because pretty much everything is crippled by losing their item. Superpower is standard, but when needing to run Jolly you don't really have to bulk to take on Arceus so I dropped it. Explosion seemed a little too easy to take advantage of as well, but it might be good. Thoughts?
Edit: Also, I'll probably start voting stage tomorrow.
Edit2: I noticed this set is pretty similar to the other Landorus-T posted, I'll consider if this is different enough (Choice Band vs Stealth Rock).
Landorus-T @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off
I've considered Sweep's comments, and I am nominating Jolly Landorus-T. Choice Band, to be exact. I feel that it may not be the best idea to pick our Stealth Rock setter first for Team 2 as well, and Choice Band Landorus-T is in fact a very threatening Pokémon; 145 base Attack is nothing to scoff at. Besides that, Landorus-T has good coverage with just Earthquake and Stone Edge so it can afford to use utility moves in the last two slots. U-turn is great, because things that can take hits from easily are usually relatively easy to take advantage of with other mons. Knock Off is also really good, because pretty much everything is crippled by losing their item. Superpower is standard, but when needing to run Jolly you don't really have to bulk to take on Arceus so I dropped it. Explosion seemed a little too easy to take advantage of as well, but it might be good. Thoughts?
Edit: Also, I'll probably start voting stage tomorrow.
Edit2: I noticed this set is pretty similar to the other Landorus-T posted, I'll consider if this is different enough (Choice Band vs Stealth Rock).
Allright, I'll just start the voting stage now. Here are all nominations:
Hippowdon
SubRoost Ho-Oh
Stealth Rock Landorus-T
Thunder Wave Kyogre
Choice Scarf Zekrom
Choice Band Landorus-T
Since there noticably less nominations this round, voting will just be for one set. Voting will be by PMing me, make it clear in the title that you are voting for this project, and the name of the set you want to vote for. In the PM itself, make it clear what set you're voting for (again). For example: Subject would be CTUP: Hippowdon, and the content of the PM would be Hippowdon.
The voting stage will probably last around two or three days, so you can't nominate anything right now. Discussion of these sets is encouraged though!
Hippowdon
SubRoost Ho-Oh
Stealth Rock Landorus-T
Thunder Wave Kyogre
Choice Scarf Zekrom
Choice Band Landorus-T
Since there noticably less nominations this round, voting will just be for one set. Voting will be by PMing me, make it clear in the title that you are voting for this project, and the name of the set you want to vote for. In the PM itself, make it clear what set you're voting for (again). For example: Subject would be CTUP: Hippowdon, and the content of the PM would be Hippowdon.
The voting stage will probably last around two or three days, so you can't nominate anything right now. Discussion of these sets is encouraged though!
They all suck c:
Why didn't you nominate anything then?
I couldn't think of a sensible nomination. I could have submitted something average easily like lugia or whatever but I wanted to post something actually decent or nothing.
More like seven :/
Ah, sorry about that. I was waiting for some more votes but I didn't realize that many days had already passed. Anyways, results:
Choice Band Landorus-T: 3
Stealth Rock Landorus-T: 3
Hippowdon: 1
Thunder Wave Kyogre: 1
SubRoost Ho-Oh: 1
Choice Scarf Zekrom: 1
It seems that Landorus-T was the most popular option, but the set isn't set in stone. Therefore, a quick final vote on the set Landorus-T will use is also needed. Just PM me and make it clear in the subject of the message that you are voting for this, and what set you want. This will be a shorter vote than last time, sorry about that.
Here are the exact sets as a reminder:
I nominateKlinklangthe following:
Landorus-T @ Earth Plate (Offensive Landorus)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
This is what I usually run on my Landorus Therian, and I see it as a good counter to Dialga. Earth Plate-boosted Earthquake always lands the OHKO, and that one extra point in base speed means that Landorus-T will always be attacking first. However, Landorus is also useful as a Stealth Rock setter and a pivot for Team 2 with U-turn. And, with Stone Edge, it achieves perfect neutral coverage, resisted by none. Its flying typing provides it with useful immunities to grounded entry hazards, while Intimidate allows it to check opposing physical attackers. It doesn't, however, appreciate status or attacks originating from a dihydrogen monoxide source (H2O, liquid and solid). However, team 2 gets the next pick as well, so a teammate can cover those weaknesses.
Thanks for posting guys, it has been a little inactive this round. Actually, I'll nominate something myself:
Landorus-T @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off
I've considered Sweep's comments, and I am nominating Jolly Landorus-T. Choice Band, to be exact. I feel that it may not be the best idea to pick our Stealth Rock setter first for Team 2 as well, and Choice Band Landorus-T is in fact a very threatening Pokémon; 145 base Attack is nothing to scoff at. Besides that, Landorus-T has good coverage with just Earthquake and Stone Edge so it can afford to use utility moves in the last two slots. U-turn is great, because things that can take hits from easily are usually relatively easy to take advantage of with other mons. Knock Off is also really good, because pretty much everything is crippled by losing their item. Superpower is standard, but when needing to run Jolly you don't really have to bulk to take on Arceus so I dropped it. Explosion seemed a little too easy to take advantage of as well, but it might be good. Thoughts?
If you voted for a Landorus-T set, there is no need to vote again (I will not count it). But if you voted for another set, feel free to vote.
Allright, Stealth Rock Landorus-T wins the vote! That means it's time for the next nomination stage. Team 2 can pick another Pokémon now, so make sure it is something that pairs well with Landorus-T. It's also a good idea to make sure it has a good matchup vs Dialga, though that is not necessary. Here's the set as a reminder:
Landorus-T @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
Landorus-T @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
Time for another nomination! This time, I propose Metagross the following:
Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate (Shadow Tag)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Landorus-T is a physical attacker that relies on Earthquake and Stone Edge to deal a lot of damage. However, it has trouble against Pokémon designed specifically for tanking physical hits. For this reason I chose Mega Gengar to aid Landorus-T in combating these foes. With Destiny Bond and Shadow Tag, Mega Gengar has the speed to punish offensive Pokémon that try to kill it prematurely. Against support Pokémon, Taunt shuts down their status moves, meaning Pokémon like Skarmory will be forced to attack. Besides, after a powerful, non-Ghost type opponent gets Taunted, and if Mega Gengar uses Destiny Bond on the next turn, it's pretty much a guaranteed KO (unless it's Deoxys, which is still easily taken out by many forms of priority). If Mega Gengar wants to go offensive, it has a few move options that it can go with. I chose Sludge Bomb as the primary STAB, and Focus Blast for coverage. Shadow Ball is a powerful STAB move that deals significant damage to the Ghost-type Pokémon it cannot trap, while Focus Blast gives it unresisted coverage.
Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate (Shadow Tag)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Landorus-T is a physical attacker that relies on Earthquake and Stone Edge to deal a lot of damage. However, it has trouble against Pokémon designed specifically for tanking physical hits. For this reason I chose Mega Gengar to aid Landorus-T in combating these foes. With Destiny Bond and Shadow Tag, Mega Gengar has the speed to punish offensive Pokémon that try to kill it prematurely. Against support Pokémon, Taunt shuts down their status moves, meaning Pokémon like Skarmory will be forced to attack. Besides, after a powerful, non-Ghost type opponent gets Taunted, and if Mega Gengar uses Destiny Bond on the next turn, it's pretty much a guaranteed KO (unless it's Deoxys, which is still easily taken out by many forms of priority). If Mega Gengar wants to go offensive, it has a few move options that it can go with. I chose Sludge Bomb as the primary STAB, and Focus Blast for coverage. Shadow Ball is a powerful STAB move that deals significant damage to the Ghost-type Pokémon it cannot trap, while Focus Blast gives it unresisted coverage.
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And then megagar is basicly useless, bc they can just pick a ghost (most likely ghosteus tbh). If we decide run megagar, we should at least run shadow ball since that really limits its checks/counters and forces them (or not, but then megagar will rek) to run a very obscure mon like spdef zor/chople tar and prolly not tar bc we have lando and we could build around spdef zor/other things that check gar ez with something like ho-oh (we can wait with choosing arc until spot 4/5 tbh) or other things that counter this mon.
Buuuuut, do we really want megagar/reveal the megastone? We could just run something like max max timid pump/rend/fire blast/twave lustrous palk bc a. its gud b. it has good synergy with lando (or above average) and c. bringing a counter is hard bc its gonna have to be something like lugia/blob (dont think so)/spdef don and we have already lando as a scarf dragon type revenger (aka zekrom, tho hp is a thing especially when counterteam building like this and draco can be used as a safe and good play) but if it hp ices then it gets rekt by rend so mindgames and bc it has twave you cant really set-up (bar lum ekiller or other bulky af things but ekiller is easily "counterable" (clefable is stronk) if they do decide to use it so yeh. Lustrous palk is good, what a good pokemon. Lustrous palk = MrGood~
Buuuuut, do we really want megagar/reveal the megastone? We could just run something like max max timid pump/rend/fire blast/twave lustrous palk bc a. its gud b. it has good synergy with lando (or above average) and c. bringing a counter is hard bc its gonna have to be something like lugia/blob (dont think so)/spdef don and we have already lando as a scarf dragon type revenger (aka zekrom, tho hp is a thing especially when counterteam building like this and draco can be used as a safe and good play) but if it hp ices then it gets rekt by rend so mindgames and bc it has twave you cant really set-up (bar lum ekiller or other bulky af things but ekiller is easily "counterable" (clefable is stronk) if they do decide to use it so yeh. Lustrous palk is good, what a good pokemon. Lustrous palk = MrGood~
The main selling point with Mega Gengar, however, is that it has almost no counters, because it's almost guarantee to take down a Pokémon. We're not going to send Gengar out on a Ghost type, and when it's already out and they try to send out Ghost Arceus against it, it'll already be in the process of mega evolving, after which it will be in a higher speed tier. It will probably have fired off an attack last turn, meaning it will most likely be able to KO with a Shadow Ball (you're right about running Shadow Ball, I will edit the set). Or, if not, it can keep spamming DB until Arceus KO's it, still finishing Him off.
Yeh, so that means:
Lustrous twave Palkia
Shadow ball megagar
Also all the people who are actually good at this game were like "ok I aint having nonna dis shit, f y'all" and just left :]
Lustrous twave Palkia
Shadow ball megagar
Also all the people who are actually good at this game were like "ok I aint having nonna dis shit, f y'all" and just left :]
I also disagree with the round 2 pick, but nominating GeoXern is just as bad right now. We do need something that can switch into that Dialga though, otherwise team 2 will be making terrible damage trades when going up against it (Adamant Orb STABs hurt otherwise) so...
Nomination HO! :
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Protect
- Roar
I would have personally liked Stealth Rock on this instead of Lando since it can actually come in safely on Dialga unlike Lando. This Heatran walls that particular Dialga will eventually win with the combination of Lava Plume and the burn chance that comes with it. It also puts pressure on team 1s potential Ho-Oh pick, since it is now forced to run 3 attacks Life Orb, risk 50:50s with a Choice Band, or get walled / phazed if it is a bulky Roost-Toxic / Sub-Roost Ho-Oh. This is also Geoxern deterrent unless it wants to rely on Focus Blast.
Downsides to Heatran include a lack of offensive presence outside of the occasional Lava Plume burn and it makes team 2 have an exploitable water weakness, but this can be patched in following rounds.
Nomination HO! :
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Protect
- Roar
I would have personally liked Stealth Rock on this instead of Lando since it can actually come in safely on Dialga unlike Lando. This Heatran walls that particular Dialga will eventually win with the combination of Lava Plume and the burn chance that comes with it. It also puts pressure on team 1s potential Ho-Oh pick, since it is now forced to run 3 attacks Life Orb, risk 50:50s with a Choice Band, or get walled / phazed if it is a bulky Roost-Toxic / Sub-Roost Ho-Oh. This is also Geoxern deterrent unless it wants to rely on Focus Blast.
Downsides to Heatran include a lack of offensive presence outside of the occasional Lava Plume burn and it makes team 2 have an exploitable water weakness, but this can be patched in following rounds.
Scrap Palkia:
I'm here to nominate geoxern:
Deer (Xerneas) @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 48 HP / 80 Def / 252 SAtk / 128 Spd
(hp fire iv's, 30 Spe 30 SAtk 30 Atk)
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Thunder
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Xern is hella good and hella strong. If we use xern, we can force them to use specific counters/checks to it, which we can easily build around/have already built around bc we have lando is a good switch-in to zor and slash, and this we can counter-build them quite excellently since out check-counter will be able to focus our team on xern as wincondition #1/#2 and they cant do an awful lot about it. Maybe we should run hp fire, to eliminate zor/slash at low hp bc sub is hella bad if you know the opposing xern has it
"Honestly if you cant spot sarcasm, that's your problem"
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lol cancer thread
sorry th it was going well but after r1 votes it just got worse and worse.
sorry th it was going well but after r1 votes it just got worse and worse.
bsadbdjsas I never claimed I'm actually good at this game but having no nominations seemed so sad D:
also Piexplode and Haruno nominate something yourselves to get this back goingbc apparently we all/I suck and all other people are based god, just nominate something that is good and isnt deadweight, ty :D or dont, but this seemed like such a kewl idea I guess things die off, maybe you were right about the cancer part :]
also Piexplode and Haruno nominate something yourselves to get this back going
No it's gone wrong so far. I did round 1 and then it just got bad round 2; I explained why I hadn't nominated anything at that point.
It was a cool idea it just didn't get going properly :(
It was a cool idea it just didn't get going properly :(
