Crappy Sun Team... Help please?

[Shelmet]

changes in the importable section, i'm too lazy to go and fix the main part D:

Ok, so I'm somewhat new to competitive battling, but I was able to read up on it a lot and create a decent team. But then my team got wiped by a sun team, and so I started building one of my own. I read up on it a bunch, etc etc, and I sure I was going to get something good.

Nope.

I have this poor excuse for a team right here, with a 45ish% percent win rate.

So I came here and posted this in hope the good people of smogon could help me.

Here we go.

Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Sunny Day
- Nasty Plot

Ninetales is there to set up sun, that much is obvious, and is also there to do something else for the team and start killing people early game. Fire Blast is a powerful STAB obtion, SolarBeam kills water types, and Sunny day gets sun back into the game when slower weather inducers come in. Nasty plot is there to get an extra special attack boost, after which I can start sweeping, without even having to switch out.

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Faint Attack
- Nature Power
I chose Shiftry as a Physical sweeper for it's respectable attack stat, ability to learn swords dance and Chlorophyll ability. With Chlorophyll, Shiftry out-speeds about everything, and that makes it an effective revenge killer or sweeper. Swords Dance gives it the boost, Seed Bomb is it's first STAB, and Faint Attack never misses and can OHKO Gengar and Chandelure. Nature power is earthquake, which is there for coverage, and can take out Heatran and w/ a boost, Jirachi, Toxicroak and Metagross.

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Energy Ball
Chandelure is Shiftry's partner in crime because it can take priority moves like Mach punch and Ice Shard that would take out Shiftry. Together they form an almost unbreakable team, resisting all priority moves, and taking out major threats. Overheat is crazy strong under sun, nullifying about everything that doesn't resist it. Shadow Ball is a good STAB move and could potentially lower the target's sp. def, making it ever easier to kill. Hidden power fighting can take Tyranitar and Hydreigon, and Energy Ball can get water type switch-ins like Politoed. Chandelure also serves to spin block.

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Atk / 232 Def / 252 SDef
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Drill Peck
- Roost
Skarmory is used to set up spikes and force opponents to switch into it with whirlwind. With it's EV spread designed for it to take hits, it can set up multiple layers of spikes, and then use roost to piss off the opponent by restoring health again. Drill peck is it's STAB move, and Shed Shell is used to escape Magnezone's magnet pull and other things trapping it.

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Synthesis
- SolarBeam
- Growth
- Sludge Bomb
Another Chlorophyll sweeper. Venusaur was previously outsped a lot, but with Chlorophyll it's very fast. Synthesis restores 2/3 health in sun, SolarBeam hits immediately and is STAB, Growth boosts Atk and S.Atk by 2 stages, and Sludge Bomb is a powerful STAB move.

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover
Porygon2 is a special wall. It just sticks around annoys my opponents to death. Recover lets it restore it's HP, thunderbolt hits water types super-effectively, while Ice beam gets grass types. Toxic serves to blunt threats as well.

So, there it is. My sad sun team. Uh... Yeah...

Importable (w/ updates):

Hide

Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
Calm Nature
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 8 SAtk / 220 SDef / 16 Spd
- Solar Beam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Flamethrower

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Nature Power

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Energy Ball

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover

 

[Shining_Latios]

Hey man nice team but I have some suggestions. First, I suggest trying Sucker Punch > Faint Attack on Shiftry. With Sucker Punch, you are able to deal a bit more damage than you would with Faint Attack and if you don't have Sun up, it's a nice priority attack. Secondly, you really rely on Ninetales's Drought for your sweepers, so it would be logical to make it bulky so it can survive as long as possible. An EV Spread of 252 HP / 120 Special Defense / 136 Speed should to the job alongside Sunny Day / Flamethrower / WoW / SolarBeam. I know you want to hit hard from the get go with Ninetales, but you have 3 other Pokemon who do the job well and without Ninetales, 2 of them lack speed. I will post the importable for it below. I also think you should run Hidden Power [Fire] > Synthesis on Venusaur to OHKO Scizor, who otherwise completely walls your set. Hopefully I helped.

Set

Hide

Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Spd / 120 SDef
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
- SolarBeam

 

[Saph]

Hi Shelmet :p, If your looking for a special wall too replace porygon you might try an evolite chansey set. Also when your making a team its always good to keep the pokemon in the same tier unless they work really well also, the skarmory takes more damage in the sun, not less to replace it you might want to try a a heatran:
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Hardy Nature
- Wish
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

 

[Avatar Korra]

Hello Shelmet! :)

I realize you're new to competitive battling, but I don't want to change too much. First off though, your Ninetales set isn't the most efficient one around. It's unfortunately quite weak even with Nasty Plot and with that EV spread will be outsped by a lot of things to really cause damage. Sunny Day is a dangerous move; say Tyranitar or Hippodown switch in and change the weather...the turn you use to set up Sunny Day can be the turn they take you out in one hit as well! You can only use it if you predict them coming, however wouldn't your rather then cripple them permanently for the rest of the battle? I recommend you use this set:

Ninetales @ Leftovers
Drought
248 HP / 16 Def / 8 SAtk / 220 SDef / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Flamethrower

Will-O-Wisp is used for crippling Hippo and Tyranitars who try and threaten you by switching in. Having one hit against a potential physical threat like incoming Terrakion is great as well, as you pretty much remove it as a threat. Flamethrower is for a reliable STAB move, and Roar can help shuffle the opponent's team and make them rack up in Hazard damage. Pain Split is a semi-reliable way of recovery...because you need Ninetales to live as long as possible, right? (Or at least until the opponent's weather changer is dead).

(I'll edit the rest of this post later, I gotta go for a bit)

 

[Shelmet]

Wow, thanks guys :)

I've used some of your suggestions and it's working out really well.

I'm weak to Volcarona... Any suggestions?

 

[Electrolyte]

Hey man!

One immediate problem I see in your team is lack of good coverage and balance. You've got 2 special attackers, 1 physical attacker, and 2 walls. Your defensive core is lacking; Skarmory and Porygon2 don't exactly have the best synergy, especially since Skarm is physical and Pory is mixed, leaving you weak to strong special attacks like Tornadus-T's Specs Hurricane in the Rain. You also have quite a few problems offensively, you barely have any coverage moves, since most of the attacking moves on your team are Fire or Grass type.

First, I'll work on your defensive side. You've got Skarmory as a Spikestacker and Porygon-2 as a mixed wall. However, strong sweepers such as Volcorona, as you yourself pointed out, will give you a lot of problems. Porygon-2 is fine as it stands, but I think Skarmory is worth switching for Sp Def Heatran. Having two mixed walls is better than having two specified ones in your case, and Heatran helps you manage other Heatrans that try to wall your team.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
~Stealth Rock
~Fire Blast
~Earth Power
~Hidden Power Ice

Heatran sets Rocks for you, and then can proceed to fire off insanely powerful Fire Blasts, boosted by STAB and the sun, coming off of its massive 359 SpA. Earth Power lets you destroy other Heatrans, while they fail to touch you, relieving a lot of offensive stress for your team. Hidden Power Ice hits dragons, such as Salamence or Dragonite, so they can't set up on you without being punished. However, Roar can be used on the last slot, to deal with Volcorona, forcing it to take 50% damage the next time it comes in, and erasing any boosts it got.

Offensively, your team also has a few holes. You have 2 Fire types and 2 Grass types for offense, so I advise you to mix it up a bit, not only to make it harder to wall your team, but also so that you can hit from many different angles and have many strategies to work upon. If you wish to use Chandelure and Shiftry as your offensive core, then I suggest you use the last slot (Ninetales has to stay, doesn't it?) to cover counters to that core. First off, removing the weather would basically just end any chance for your core to sweep. Tyranitar is especially dangerous, because it can revenge kill Choice locked Chandelure, effectively ending your core. Rain is also fearsome, weakening Chandelure's STABs and making it and Shiftry easier to take down. Venasaur is definitely not taking care of those counters well, which is why you find your team lacking strength. I recommend you switch Venasaur with Reversal Dugtrio to help you take care of threats better.

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
~Reversal
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Substitute / Sucker Punch

Dugtrio helps you win weather wars, which is why it's such a common sight on Sun teams these days. It traps Tyranitar with its awesome ability, and then OHKOs it with either EQ or Reversal, ending your opponent's chances to win the weather war. It also traps Politoed and does the same thing. EQ is very necessary for your team, as it OHKOs Heatran and other Steel types that give you problems. Stone Edge hits Thundurus-T for an OHKO, allowing you to revenge the non-scarfed variants. If you can keep your sash up, Dugtrio can also revenge Tornadus-T, living its Hurricane because of its Sash, and then OHKOing back with Stone Edge. The last slot is for Substitute, so you can force yourself to lower HP's, strengthening your Reversals. Substitute is also great for pokemon like Rotom-W, if you can catch them volt switching, because then they will be forced to switch, giving you a free turn (however most of the time your opponent will not be able to switch.) Sucker Punch can also be used, hitting Alakazam, Latios, and Latias hard, however you already have Shiftry to do that.

Great team, and good luck!

 

[Gimmick]

Hey there Shelmet!

Taking a quick glance at your team, I noticed 2 weaknesses to Stealth Rocks without a spinner. That restricts Chandelure to 4 switch-ins, considering it doesn't take prior damage. Ninetales will also have trouble switching in, which can be fatal against other weather teams. To help with this, I'd recommend using Physically Defensive Forretress over Skarmory. Although it does remove Skarmory's ground immunity as well as phasing ability, it opens up an easier time switching around.

Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Volt Switch / Spikes
- Gyro Ball


Another problem I see is a difficulty switching into defensive Politoed. Shiftry doesn't want to switch into a Scald as it fears a fatal burn. Porygon2 would never appreciate switching into a Toxic, and Venusaur's SE STAB doesn't even work in rain. To fix this, I recommend altering Venusaur's moveset to a Life Orb Sweeper. With BW2, Venusaur now has access to Giga Drain with Chlorophyll, causing Life Orb damage to be ignored in a way. For this reason, I'd recommend a set like this:

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Because it has Giga Drain, it's able to run a Modest nature. Modest Venusaur will always be outsped by Jolly Scarf Terrakion, so it would normally be a wise decision to use Timid, but with Giga Drain, Venusaur is able to gain a ton of HP back from said Terrakion. This Venusaur is designed to outspeed Scarf Landorus-I and Thundurus-T (and everything below it) while retaining huge offensive prowess. I dumped the rest of the EVs in HP.


252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs 42 HP/0 Def Venusaur: 61.09% - 72.35% (2 hits to KO)


As you can see, Venusaur isn't OHKO'd by a Stone Edge and is able to OHKO back with a Giga Drain, gaining all that HP back (assuming Terrakion and Venusaur are both at max HP). HP Fire is essential for Venusaur as Steels will otherwise completely wall it. It's also able to beat Chansey and Blissey one on one (considering they don't carry Fire Blast). However, the most important part of this set that accompanies your team is the fact that it absolutely does not mind switching into defensive Politoed. Burns don't effect its offensive abilities, Toxic does nothing, and Ice Beam only does:


4 SpAtk Politoed Ice Beam vs 42 HP/0 SpDef Venusaur: 40.51% - 48.23% (3 hits to KO)


Best of all, though, you don't need to rely on Sun to use your grass STAB. It's also a fairly decent replacement to Synthesis. I'd honestly only recommend using SolarBeam on Venusaur if you run Dugtrio or Wobbufett, which greatly increase your chances of winning the weather war.


Lastly, since your team is somewhat offensive, I doubt Toxic on Porygon2 is all that helpful. I'd suggest replacing it with Thunder Wave, slowing down your opponent's team. This will allow Chandelure to outspeed anything paralyzed and basically destroy it since it's so powerful. Take Latios for example. You're able to switch into a Specs Draco Meteor and either T-Wave the Latios or likewise for the incoming Pokemon, rendering it prey for Chandelure to clean up later.


Actually, one more thing. I agree with Avatar Korra on his suggestion for the Ninetales set. Specially defensive Ninetales definitely makes the weather war much easier to win. Switching into Scalds becomes much safer and Will-O-Wisping TTars can be crucial. Roar also causes Ninetales to check non HP Ground/Rock Volcaronas and causes them to switch into Stealth Rock later in the game (assuming your opponent doesn't spin).


Overall, this is quite a good team. Sawsbuck definitely does a better job as a Physical Sweeper in BW2, but I like your choice of Shiftry because it's cool and stuff. Good luck!

 

[Shelmet]

Ok, so i've updated the main post to all your suggestions (well, just the importable part...)

 

[lincoln503]

dude erase sunny day and put in flame thrower other then that very solid sun team!

 

[Avatar Korra]

dude erase sunny day and put in flame thrower other then that very solid sun team!

He did...well at least he did on his importable!

Shelmet, I recommend you update your main post so people don't give you advice you've already heard! That way you can continue to get new advice from other users :)