Pokémon Crawdaunt

[MasterRyuga]

i never said choice scarf crawdaunt was good i said it was decently ok meaning not something that should be used i thought that was clear enough. also ive used choice scarf crawdaunt and of course if you didnt notice my set had both aqua jet and knock off the fact remains crawdaunt outside of rain is not what it used to be especially now that it has aqua jet. base 55speed it can be used well in a trick room team. also in a baton pass team which is why i used a choice scarf on it and it won many games with just knock off but thats a little example of why i used a choice scarf even though i know it is not its best option. dragon dance crawdaunt is actually decent aswell or maybe a bulky dragon dance can be used but i dont think anything been tested for the crab.

crawdaunt always had a stronger water type attack.

 

[alexwolf]

The difference between 100/80/80 and 63/85/55 isn't "slightly" bulkier. Crawdaunt is very frail while Azumarril isnt, and crawdaunt outdamages azumarril only on its Water STABs(Not sure about dark Stabs, but i do know that it mainly uses its Stabs due to them being nearly unresited) that small boost in damage isn't worth the extreme loss in bulk. Crawdaunt won't have fun it what is likely going to be a priority controlled OU.

And someone said something about them equally being viable but I can't find the post, so i would like to say that crawdaunt is easily a tier below Azumarril, maybe on par with Diggersby.

1. Crawdaunt uses only STAB moves on its CB set, meaning it's always stronger than CB Azumarill
2. Crawdaunt's power boost is small but Azumarill's bulk boost is not? Stop playing favorites, Craqdaunt is fairly stronger than Azumarill and Azumarill is fairly bulkier than Crawdaunt.

When one compares Crawdaunt and Azumarill here are the pros of each:

Crawdaunt

• Way better wallbreaker, practically unwallable outside of niche Pokemon (Chesnaught)
• Stronger priority
• Better check to Aegislash, being able to do 80% to max HP Aegislash with Knock Off even at -2 Atk (King's Shield)

Azumarill

• Way easier to switch in, as it has much better bulk and a much better defensive typing than Crawdaunt, giving it much more switch-in chances
• Checks a ton of dangerous offensive threats that Crawdaunt can't (Mega Lucario, Greninja, Dragonite, Mega Char X to name a few)

tl;dr Crawdaunt is the better wallbreaker but Azumarill has way more switch in chances and checks a ton of dangerous threats, giving it a ton of utility outside of being a wallbreaker.

 

[Jayd]

I've recently started using Crawdaunt and thought I'd share my experience. Hopefully it may contribute something more than just a fresh set of calcs (not that calcs aren't valuable and appreciated).

It has been an absolutely crucial team member. Its primary utility so far has been in late game sweeping. In teams with such powerhouses as DD Gyarados and DD Mega Tyranitar, games have often come down to clearing the way for a Crawdaunt sweep. I've seen it expressed here that she needs too much team support, but my experience contradicts that; she's needed no more support than any other priority sweeper, and has always been an asset rather than a liability.

She has revenge OHKO'd a Gengar (that I was afraid would sweep my team) with a single unboosted LO Aqua Jet. A Mega Garchomp at ~75% health was KO'd by a Crabhammer as it tried to set up, hoping to survive a hit. Yes, if my opponent had attacked Crawdaunt would have been KO'd, but the Garchomp needed the boost to stand a chance against my incoming Pokemon. Crawdaunt basically forced him between a rock and a hard place. I mention these as notable experiences but its job is usually casually taking out the opponent's late game party (I could make several moleskin products with the corpses of claimed Excadrills). I have not even found a need to use Swords Dance yet.

So I just wanted to say that the power is real, folks. It's no theorymon illusion.

 

[SergantGold]

Don't say Azumarill is better outright and then try to drop the argument, that's the worst.

Anyway, lets see what that 20% does.

Aegislash is big, right?
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 238-282 (73.4 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 210-247 (64.8 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
10% difference. With two layers of hazards, Aegislash might get OHKO'd. Still, not a huge deal, 2 layers isn't big. Knockoff however definitely kills Aegislash. So against Aegislash, Crawdaunt probably wins out.

Rotom Wash...
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 160-189 (52.6 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
There's difference A- a 2hko on Rotom Wash. Granted, neighter is going to stay in on Rotom wash, but the potential to kill a half off offensive rotom is nice. Of course, their secondary STABs are 2HKOs as well.

Ferrothorn...
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 135-159 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- 27.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not great either way, but the difference is clear. At least Crawdaunt can do a 2hKO with knockoff, though.

Talonflame gets Aqua jet Calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 360-428 (100 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 318-374 (88.3 - 103.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Hey, that's important! So long as people are still running max hp talonflame.

MegaKang
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 340-400 (82.1 - 96.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 268-316 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Also significant, although who switches Kang into an attacker, really

TTar gets screwed on the switch, but if it's just Aqua Jets-
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 252-300 (73.9 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 218-260 (63.9 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Crawdaunt does slightly better against an offensive variant

Klefki
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Klefki: 368-434 (115 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Klefki: 258-304 (80.6 - 95%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Significant.

Scizor
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 340-400 (98.8 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 238-282 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
That's... a big deal, actually.

Mamoswine
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 328-388 (77.3 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 288-342 (67.9 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
also a big deal.

Gengar
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 206-244 (78.9 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 180-213 (68.9 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Beating Gengar a third of the time? I'll take it.

And the bane of all physical, Sableye:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sableye: 322-380 (105.9 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sableye: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


SO, yes, that 20% does make a difference in a lot of cases. If you wanted a pokemon to sit there and launch Priority and massive hits... Crawdaunt does a pretty good job. He just takes less hits and delivers bigger hits.

Anyway, onto differences- Knockoff vs playrough
Both are good, but Knockoff is fantastic. That's basically it.

Crawdaunt also has the option of dragondancing, making it a true monster and a sweeper, something Azumarill can't hope to achieve.

So. Crawdaunt has some nice OHKOs with a band that Azumarill can't touch, and the option to DD, where Azumarill has bulk.

I will respond fully to the first part in >an hour as i lack the time right now but i do want to say that
1. In some of the examples you provided, either you or the oppenent would switch out if the option is possible, and i really doubt the average player would ever switch a t-tar out to a banded azumarril or crawdaunt locked on aqua jet. While they do show power I'd love to see what the opponent can do back. Context.
2. Ferro proabably would win in that unless it wasn't running leech seed along with either rocky helm or lefties which is the only thing i can see it running.
3. I don't honestly think a crawdaunt DD set would work in OU due to the understood fraility problems.
And i never said anything about knock off, its pretty obvious that its better than Play Rough if the user has Stab adaptibility on it.

1. Crawdaunt uses only STAB moves on its CB set, meaning it's always stronger than CB Azumarill

2. Crawdaunt's power boost is small but Azumarill's bulk boost is not? Stop playing favorites, Craqdaunt is fairly stronger than Azumarill and Azumarill is fairly bulkier than Crawdaunt.


When one compares Crawdaunt and Azumarill here are the pros of each:


Crawdaunt

• Way better wallbreaker, practically unwallable outside of niche Pokemon (Chesnaught)
• Stronger priority
• Better check to Aegislash, being able to do 80% to max HP Aegislash with Knock Off even at -2 Atk (King's Shield)

Azumarill

• Way easier to switch in, as it has much better bulk and a much better defensive typing than Crawdaunt, giving it much more switch-in chances
• Checks a ton of dangerous offensive threats that Crawdaunt can't (Mega Lucario, Greninja, Dragonite, Mega Char X to name a few)

tl;dr Crawdaunt is the better wallbreaker but Azumarill has way more switch in chances and checks a ton of dangerous threats, giving it a ton of utility outside of being a wallbreaker.

I had the impression from the post i quoted in my last post that he was implying Crawdaunt could be a better sweeper. I was talking about (attempts at) sweeping in my post, as i was trying to talk in terms of how crawdaunt is outclassed by azumarril as a sweeper due to Sitrus BD aqua jet. I know that between wallbreakers More power+More coverage =better wallbreaker, and crawdaunt has both of those. Sorry if i worded it as if i was taking about wallbreakers.
And sorry for my inability to not be repetitive in posts >:c

 

[myw]

She has revenge OHKO'd a Gengar (that I was afraid would sweep my team) with a single unboosted LO Aqua Jet.

... how? The CB Adamant Crawdaunt couldn't do that.

@SergentGold:
1. You'd likely run into the TTar after one of your pokemon drops out or something. TTar is a bit faster generally, so it's nice to know that you can plow through him with an aqua jet or force a switch.
2. Ferrothorn doesn't win if it switches in- leftovers was calculated, its a probable 2hko. If he invested in bulk though besides HP, then I'm wrong. Also, I only included the Crabhammer calc, assuming a bad read. Knockoff would definitely 2hko Ferrothorn.
3. I'm currently running mega pinsir, which has roughly the same bulk. I find a boost is not terribly difficult to get with burn support. Crawdaunt also has similar advantages- Massive damage, massive priority. The biggest diffference is that Crawdaunt doesn't get the extra +1 to attack, since it doesn't start with good speed. Even without the boost, slapping an orb on it gives you a competent Priority sweeper. You've probably sealed a game with bullet punches from Scizor before? It's sorta like that.

 

[MasterRyuga]

nobody cares about azumarill this is crawdaunts page. what do you want power or bulk? on a side note Crawdaunt only is more powerful through stab attacks so thats the only thing azumarill has over Crawdaunt besides bulk. that should end dumb arguments. also the four moves crawdaunt should have are:
Crabhammer
Aqua jet
Superpower/Crunch/Double Edge
knock Off/Crunch

it does not need anything besides those attacks this is my opinion of course but it should be obvious that these are all staple attacks it should almost always have.
i dont think there is much more to talk about regarding power anymore. ill be looking forward to any unorthodox sets but after pokebank is released we can find out if Crawdaunt gets any other egg moves to mess with.

 

[Plasma.EXE]

I love using Crawdaunt in doubles, He's capable of completely destroying just about any trick room user in one hit. In a singles metagame, he's still very strong. But he isn't nearly as capable as Azumarill in switching in on attacks and not losing a significant amount of health, hindering it's potential despite being more powerful. Azumarill can switch in on hydreigon, most fighting pokemon without electric attack, mega blastoise, and even Starmie while holding an assault vest. Crawdaunt can switch in on psychic attacks, but can't really OHKOmost psychic pokemon at full health with aquajet except possibly Alakazam.

 

[Jayd]

... how? The CB Adamant Crawdaunt couldn't do that.

Something must be wrong with your calcs because I just re-watched the battle video and that definitely happened; no crit. You can watch it here: 4B6G-WWWW-WWW3-JC5W (Turn 8). From what you're saying I doubt an imperfect Def and HP IV explains the discrepancy.

 

[SergantGold]

... how? The CB Adamant Crawdaunt couldn't do that.

@SergentGold:
1. You'd likely run into the TTar after one of your pokemon drops out or something. TTar is a bit faster generally, so it's nice to know that you can plow through him with an aqua jet or force a switch.
2. Ferrothorn doesn't win if it switches in- leftovers was calculated, its a probable 2hko. If he invested in bulk though besides HP, then I'm wrong. Also, I only included the Crabhammer calc, assuming a bad read. Knockoff would definitely 2hko Ferrothorn.
3. I'm currently running mega pinsir, which has roughly the same bulk. I find a boost is not terribly difficult to get with burn support. Crawdaunt also has similar advantages- Massive damage, massive priority. The biggest diffference is that Crawdaunt doesn't get the extra +1 to attack, since it doesn't start with good speed. Even without the boost, slapping an orb on it gives you a competent Priority sweeper. You've probably sealed a game with bullet punches from Scizor before? It's sorta like that.

Mega Pinsir has 65/120/90 and is faster, so you can't really compare their abilities to set-up.I still think that the ability to go +6 at the cost of a fourth of your HP with a good amount of bulk is better than Crawdaunt's set-up sweeping capabilities.
And you said choice band in the ferro calc, so i assumed you would be staying in agasint it. If crawdaunt becomes popular then ferros will switch out off a one that isn't locked in on a move, because crawdaunt won't pass up Adaptibility Knock Off. And would you want your ferro to lose its lefties/rocky helmet?
I think the Pros of crawdaunt are:
-Better pure wallbreaker
-Stab Adaptibility Knock Off
-Has good coverage.
Cons:
-realatively poor defensive typing
-Defences of a wet piece of toliet paper
-Is outclassed as a set-up sweeper by practically every set-up sweeper in OU
-is weak to both halves of volturn
-only a mother could love that face

Pros of azumarril(for comparision):
-Has utility outside if wallbreaking if you are using it as such.
-has the great combo BD+STAB priority
-great typing
-good bulk
-is adorable
Cons:
-is weak to half of volturn
-has a bit of 4MSS on BD sets.
-is as slow as all hell.

 

[escarlata]

Mega Pinsir has 65/120/90 and is faster, so you can't really compare their abilities to set-up.I still think that the ability to go +6 at the cost of a fourth of your HP with a good amount of bulk is better than Crawdaunt's set-up sweeping capabilities.
And you said choice band in the ferro calc, so i assumed you would be staying in agasint it. If crawdaunt becomes popular then ferros will switch out off a one that isn't locked in on a move, because crawdaunt won't pass up Adaptibility Knock Off. And would you want your ferro to lose its lefties/rocky helmet?
I think the Pros of crawdaunt are:
-Better pure wallbreaker
-Stab Adaptibility Knock Off
-Has good coverage.
Cons:
-realatively poor defensive typing
-Defences of a wet piece of toliet paper
-Is outclassed as a set-up sweeper by practically every set-up sweeper in OU
-is weak to both halves of volturn
-only a mother could love that face

Pros of azumarril(for comparision):
-Has utility outside if wallbreaking if you are using it as such.
-has the great combo BD+STAB priority
-great typing
-good bulk
-is adorable
Cons:
-is weak to half of volturn
-has a bit of 4MSS on BD sets.
-is as slow as all hell.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 234-278 (68.6 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 318-375 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 588-691 (172.4 - 202.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 634-747 (185.9 - 219%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The value '+6' is wayyyy overrated. Even at +2, Crawdaunt is matching the damage of a +6 Azumarill. The fact that you are at +6 means you cannot potentially get any higher boosts against stuff like Rest and Protect users, whereas Crawdaunt can make use of it to get to +4 or more.

Crawdaunt's bulk physically is not as frail as you are making it sound. It is bulkier than Sylveon, Drifblim, and the likes in terms of Skarmpoints, and for instance Drifblim in fact can be EV-ed to survive unSTABed Stone Edge. Though I admit its special bulk is terrible, even losing to Farfetch'd.

Another thing about BellyAzu is that it is like PH-Xerneas. It hits hard but it only has 1 chance to set up a sweep. On the other hand, Crawdaunt can come in and set up multiple times in a match.

So in a nutshell, the advantages of each are as follows, summing up this post and previous posts

Crawdaunt:
- WAY better wallbreaker
- Better STAB coverage hence less prediction intensive
- Slightly faster (can outspeed 0 spd Rotom)
- Hits significantly harder on CB set
- Can set up multiple times in a match if forced out
- No 4MSS in SD set

Azumarill:
- Better at defeating threats that avoids the 2HKO from both, or faster threats that can take an Aqua Jet
- WAY better defensive typing
- Significantly bulkier, especially on the special side
- Hits marginally harder on set-up sets

Technically, Crawdaunt and Azumarill are not in direct competition with each other for a team slot. It's like how it is wrong to say Entie is better than Emboar because it is bulkier. The fact is they have their own distinct roles. Neither can replace each other's role because Azumarill will never be able to break apart walls as easily as Crawdaunt. On the other hand, Crawdaunt will also be unable to switch in as freely as Azumarill, or afford to miss 3HKOs which Azumarill can afford to miss. The bottom line is: neither is considered to really outclass the other, pick what your team need, not whichever one is 'better'.

 

[alexwolf]

nobody cares about azumarill this is crawdaunts page. what do you want power or bulk? on a side note Crawdaunt only is more powerful through stab attacks so thats the only thing azumarill has over Crawdaunt besides bulk. also the four moves crawdaunt should have are:
Crabhammer
Aqua jet
Superpower/Crunch/Double Edge
knock Off/Crunch

it does not need anything besides those attacks this is my opinion of course but it should be obvious that these are all staple attacks it should almost always have.
i dont think there is much more to talk about regarding power anymore. ill be looking forward to any unorthodox sets but after pokebank is released we can find out if Crawdaunt gets any other egg moves to mess with.

For one last time, CB Crawdaunt only uses STAB moves on its moveset, so the argument that Crawdaunt is stronger only when using STAB moves is moot and means nothing. Also, Superpower is not needed as Ferrothorn is already 2HKOed by Knock Off, while Crunch is a must if you want to get past Mega Venusaur.

All the comparisons between Azumarill and Crawdaunt have been made, there is nothing more left to say. You can consider this discussion closed, unless you want me to start deleting posts.

 

[SergantGold]

For one last time, CB Crawdaunt only uses STAB moves on its moveset, so the argument that Crawdaunt is stronger only when using STAB moves is moot and means nothing. Also, Superpower is not needed as Ferrothorn is already 2HKOed by Knock Off, while Crunch is a must if you want to get past Mega Venusaur.

All the comparisons between Azumarill and Crawdaunt have been made, there is nothing more left to say. You can consider this discussion closed, unless you want me to start deleting posts.

When i said he doesn't always use his STABs i wasn't refering to to CB set.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 234-278 (68.6 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 318-375 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 588-691 (172.4 - 202.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 634-747 (185.9 - 219%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The value '+6' is wayyyy overrated. Even at +2, Crawdaunt is matching the damage of a +6 Azumarill. The fact that you are at +6 means you cannot potentially get any higher boosts against stuff like Rest and Protect users, whereas Crawdaunt can make use of it to get to +4 or more.

Crawdaunt's bulk physically is not as frail as you are making it sound. It is bulkier than Sylveon, Drifblim, and the likes in terms of Skarmpoints, and for instance Drifblim in fact can be EV-ed to survive unSTABed Stone Edge. Though I admit its special bulk is terrible, even losing to Farfetch'd.

Another thing about BellyAzu is that it is like PH-Xerneas. It hits hard but it only has 1 chance to set up a sweep. On the other hand, Crawdaunt can come in and set up multiple times in a match.

So in a nutshell, the advantages of each are as follows, summing up this post and previous posts

Crawdaunt:
- WAY better wallbreaker
- Better STAB coverage hence less prediction intensive
- Slightly faster (can outspeed 0 spd Rotom)
- Hits significantly harder on CB set
- Can set up multiple times in a match if forced out
- No 4MSS in SD set

Azumarill:
- Better at defeating threats that avoids the 2HKO from both, or faster threats that can take an Aqua Jet
- WAY better defensive typing
- Significantly bulkier, especially on the special side
- Hits marginally harder on set-up sets

Technically, Crawdaunt and Azumarill are not in direct competition with each other for a team slot. It's like how it is wrong to say Entie is better than Emboar because it is bulkier. The fact is they have their own distinct roles. Neither can replace each other's role because Azumarill will never be able to break apart walls as easily as Crawdaunt. On the other hand, Crawdaunt will also be unable to switch in as freely as Azumarill, or afford to miss 3HKOs which Azumarill can afford to miss. The bottom line is: neither is considered to really outclass the other, pick what your team need, not whichever one is 'better'.

They both have Sweeping sets which are similar and Wallbreaking sets which are similar. They preform almost the exact same roles.
And the difference between 100 and 63 and 80 and fifty is large. I was saying overall its frail, it can take a couple of hits on the physical side but not much else. That difference will make Crawdaunt UU and Azumarril OU imo.
Ill stop with this now.

 

[alexwolf]

When i said he doesn't always use his STABs i wasn't refering to to CB set.

The same is true for all its sets. Swords Dance only needs Knock Off, Crabhammer, and Aqua Jet. Dragon Dance is mostly outclassed in OU, though it does have some situational use.

 

[SergantGold]

The same is true for all its sets. Swords Dance only needs Knock Off, Crabhammer, and Aqua Jet. Dragon Dance is mostly outclassed in OU, though it does have some situational use.

Doesn't it need Superpower though?
Nvm i forgot dark isn't resisted by steel for a second

 

[alexwolf]

Doesn't it need Superpower though?

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Ferrothorn: 351-413 (99.7 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

 

[MasterRyuga]

For one last time, CB Crawdaunt only uses STAB moves on its moveset, so the argument that Crawdaunt is stronger only when using STAB moves is moot and means nothing. Also, Superpower is not needed as Ferrothorn is already 2HKOed by Knock Off, while Crunch is a must if you want to get past Mega Venusaur.

All the comparisons between Azumarill and Crawdaunt have been made, there is nothing more left to say. You can consider this discussion closed, unless you want me to start deleting posts.

yeah i said its only stronger by stab already i dont think you noticed. but id like to see weird sets if anyone has any ideas.

 

[rapple]

A swords dance mon with 80 bp priority is nothing to be messed with, just look at scizor and breloom. Siczor has better bulk and breloom has access to spore, making setting up a lot easier. However, apart from brelooms bullet seed they lack really hard hitting moves which thanks to adaptability, crawdaunt is the king of. I think the real competition will come from them. (For the swords dance set at least)

 

[The JUST8R]

Heliosik puts this thing straight. Come in on a aqua jet, or crabhammer, get hp back with dry skin, and force him to switch because of a t-bolt. I use sub on my helioisk, so as he switches, I get a free sub.

 

[TheMohZone]

Heliosik puts this thing straight. Come in on a aqua jet, or crabhammer, get hp back with dry skin, and force him to switch because of a t-bolt. I use sub on my helioisk, so as he switches, I get a free sub.

But if you come in on a Knock Off/Crunch you get Raped. so you can come in on 2 of its moves and you're gonna get away with that once. Good Job.

 

[amzaneok]

So, I'm running Crawdaunt on a team with reliable paralysis support. How many Speed EVs are recommended? What prevalent Ground- and Electric-types set reachable benchmarks of Speed for Crawdaunt? I'm backing him up with Scoliopede's Baton Passes as well. 252 Speed EVs seem rather excessive with support, and I feel as though some additional bulk to survive all the priority moves flying around would be beneficial, as Crawdaunt isn't THAT bad defensively on the physical side.

 

[Machamp]

So, I'm running Crawdaunt on a team with reliable paralysis support. How many Speed EVs are recommended? What prevalent Ground- and Electric-types set reachable benchmarks of Speed for Crawdaunt? I'm backing him up with Scoliopede's Baton Passes as well. 252 Speed EVs seem rather excessive with support, and I feel as though some additional bulk to survive all the priority moves flying around would be beneficial, as Crawdaunt isn't THAT bad defensively on the physical side.

124 EVs outruns 70 speeds. So baton passing a 71 speed wouldn't be too bad.
Than 252 Att and the rest into HP I'd say.

 

[amzaneok]

124 EVs outruns 70 speeds. So baton passing a 71 speed wouldn't be too bad.
Than 252 Att and the rest into HP I'd say.

Thanks. That's the benchmark I was thinking of going for. Even when passed a single Speed boost, Crawdaunt should be able to outrun many faster threats. And, fortunately for Crawdaunt, Choice Scarfers aren't too big of a deal, as it can smash them with Knock Off on the switch to not only deal heavy damage but move first on the following turn.

I'm on my mobile at the moment so I can't efficiently look up Speed tiers, but does anyone know off the top of their head what tier is outrun by a +1 base 71 Speed stat Pokémon?

 

[escarlata]

Thanks. That's the benchmark I was thinking of going for. Even when passed a single Speed boost, Crawdaunt should be able to outrun many faster threats. And, fortunately for Crawdaunt, Choice Scarfers aren't too big of a deal, as it can smash them with Knock Off on the switch to not only deal heavy damage but move first on the following turn.

I'm on my mobile at the moment so I can't efficiently look up Speed tiers, but does anyone know off the top of their head what tier is outrun by a +1 base 71 Speed stat Pokémon?

+1 base 71 Speed reaches 361, which speed-ties Azelf (115 base speed)

 

[amzaneok]

+1 base 71 Speed reaches 361, which speed-ties Azelf (115 base speed)

So running 128 Speed EVs at least would be the better option, right? Being faster than Starmie is a pretty big deal.

 

[Chou Toshio]

1. Crawdaunt uses only STAB moves on its CB set, meaning it's always stronger than CB Azumarill
2. Crawdaunt's power boost is small but Azumarill's bulk boost is not? Stop playing favorites, Craqdaunt is fairly stronger than Azumarill and Azumarill is fairly bulkier than Crawdaunt.

When one compares Crawdaunt and Azumarill here are the pros of each:

Crawdaunt

• Way better wallbreaker, practically unwallable outside of niche Pokemon (Chesnaught)
• Stronger priority
• Better check to Aegislash, being able to do 80% to max HP Aegislash with Knock Off even at -2 Atk (King's Shield)

Azumarill

• Way easier to switch in, as it has much better bulk and a much better defensive typing than Crawdaunt, giving it much more switch-in chances
• Checks a ton of dangerous offensive threats that Crawdaunt can't (Mega Lucario, Greninja, Dragonite, Mega Char X to name a few)

tl;dr Crawdaunt is the better wallbreaker but Azumarill has way more switch in chances and checks a ton of dangerous threats, giving it a ton of utility outside of being a wallbreaker.

I would agree Alex, but I'd still say that Azumarril is the overall better Pokemon (or at least, overall more useful to a greater number of teams) just because survivability is so important (bulk or Speed). What I really hate about a Wall Breaker with no survivability is that it almost has to come in on a revenge kill (meaning you already lost something), will only kill one enemy (since it's not a set up sweeper), and because it's a wall breaker and not a trapper, it can't even selectively "choose" what to kill (the enemy decides what to sac).

Obviously, a good wall break can make or break a game, but Azum can still successfully wall break, while being a major defensive asset thanks to its much more impressive bulk (the ability to take Special attacks is huge too, seeing as Crawdaunt can't even really take resisted ones) and much better defensive Typing. This means that Azum has more chances to Wall break, and supports its team better (important for a wall breaker, as it's not usually a win condition-- though obviously Aqua Jet gives both a chance to do even that).

I guess my point is I'd choose Azum over Crawdaunt for a 7 times out of 10-- but that's just because most teams will have a greater need for all the defensive backup they can get, and need those extra resistances to count on. However, there are those 3 teams that I'd go with Crawdaunt for because of what it can do that Azum can't (hit harder, and royally fuck shit up with Knock Off, which eliminates a lot of need for prediction since everything hates losing its item).

Ultimately, I'm not even sure if it's all that necessary to compare them directly.