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Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
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Protect Zam
Zam (Alakazam) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
Sick of those Choice Band Scizors putting your Life Orb Zam in a pickle? Well Protect solves that. Similar to Mystic Gar of last generation, Protect let's you scout whether that pesky Scizor is going to Bullet Punch or Pursuit. If he Pursuits, Scizor will take >70% from Focus Blast. When you can't find those opportunities for a free Sub, which is kinda hard with Zam, this set offers an alternate solution. It is also handy for scouting if Rotom-W, something Scizor is paired with, is scarfed or not. Basically this set benefits from having the power of Life Orb without the CB Scizor dilemma.
Here's a set out of the blue. Surprisingly successful for a Pokemon that's long out of the OU tier.
LO SubCham
Medicham (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pure Power
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Psycho Cut
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
You might be thinking that this thing is a joke, right? A slow-ass, defensively inept Pokemon whos only saving grace is its attack stat that goes unparalleled bar the Uber Deoxys-A. What right does it have that you can't get with something better, like Haxorus (if you're going for a raw attack sweeper)? That's where this set comes in.
The worst part of this set is finding the opportunity. Coming in after a Pokemon has fainted on basically a slow or relatively non-threatening member of the opponent's team is ultimately the catch to this. If you can take that opportunity, you try to get up Substitute. If you can get that up, you're basically guaranteed to get a KO that match. If not 2 or more. Cham's frailness and NU status is a blessing in disguise. People don't expect much from it. If they have a wall in that can't take the hit from it, they'll just switch out to something that resists your supposed Choiced Super Effective move, which is where you'll get your Sub. HJK/Psycho Cut/Ice Punch is incredible coverage, hitting almost everything in the OU tier for incredible damage, even Skarmory takes a whopping 65% from HJK, which is one of the few walls that can even get in on Medicham and do anything about it.
Even if you don't ever get a chance to set up, throwing out even a single attack from 480 attack with Life Orb is going to scar, if not kill SOMETHING.
Attack is obviously maximized, Speed is enough to outpace Max Speed TTar and some less invested mons that usually use that speed number as a bar. The rest is put in HP because, despite the suicidal look of the set, the bulk is the key part. It's barely enough to take weak and resisted priority and not break subs.
It's not the best sweeper in the world by any means, but from my experience, it can hold its own in the OU Metagame. It's surprising and hits like a truck.
LO SubCham
Medicham (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pure Power
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Psycho Cut
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
You might be thinking that this thing is a joke, right? A slow-ass, defensively inept Pokemon whos only saving grace is its attack stat that goes unparalleled bar the Uber Deoxys-A. What right does it have that you can't get with something better, like Haxorus (if you're going for a raw attack sweeper)? That's where this set comes in.
The worst part of this set is finding the opportunity. Coming in after a Pokemon has fainted on basically a slow or relatively non-threatening member of the opponent's team is ultimately the catch to this. If you can take that opportunity, you try to get up Substitute. If you can get that up, you're basically guaranteed to get a KO that match. If not 2 or more. Cham's frailness and NU status is a blessing in disguise. People don't expect much from it. If they have a wall in that can't take the hit from it, they'll just switch out to something that resists your supposed Choiced Super Effective move, which is where you'll get your Sub. HJK/Psycho Cut/Ice Punch is incredible coverage, hitting almost everything in the OU tier for incredible damage, even Skarmory takes a whopping 65% from HJK, which is one of the few walls that can even get in on Medicham and do anything about it.
Even if you don't ever get a chance to set up, throwing out even a single attack from 480 attack with Life Orb is going to scar, if not kill SOMETHING.
Attack is obviously maximized, Speed is enough to outpace Max Speed TTar and some less invested mons that usually use that speed number as a bar. The rest is put in HP because, despite the suicidal look of the set, the bulk is the key part. It's barely enough to take weak and resisted priority and not break subs.
It's not the best sweeper in the world by any means, but from my experience, it can hold its own in the OU Metagame. It's surprising and hits like a truck.
Protect Zam
Zam (Alakazam) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
Sick of those Choice Band Scizors putting your Life Orb Zam in a pickle? Well Protect solves that. Similar to Mystic Gar of last generation, Protect let's you scout whether that pesky Scizor is going to Bullet Punch or Pursuit. If he Pursuits, Scizor will take >70% from Focus Blast. When you can't find those opportunities for a free Sub, which is kinda hard with Zam, this set offers an alternate solution. It is also handy for scouting if Rotom-W, something Scizor is paired with, is scarfed or not. Basically this set benefits from having the power of Life Orb without the CB Scizor dilemma.
If you're looking for a scizor counter why not just run HP fire? No chance of missing, and x4 effective
Its not about countering, its that without protect scizor is a nemesis for Alakazam.
Personally, I just keep Zam for late game after I take care of any potential scizors. I prefer:
Alakazam/MagicGaurd/LifeOrb
KnockOff
PsyShock
ShadowBall
FocusBlast
KnockOff is incredible at making later sweeps possible. Get rid of bands, scarfs, leftovers, and most importantly EVIOLITE, so Porygon 2 and Chansey can't wall Alakazam (and the occassional dusclops comes up)
I saw someone joking about ditto on the previous page. Wouldn't the quick claw be a better item than choice scarf? With quick claw you'll statistically go first a majority of the time when you consider a speed tie is 50/50 in the first place.
Personally, I just keep Zam for late game after I take care of any potential scizors. I prefer:
Alakazam/MagicGaurd/LifeOrb
KnockOff
PsyShock
ShadowBall
FocusBlast
KnockOff is incredible at making later sweeps possible. Get rid of bands, scarfs, leftovers, and most importantly EVIOLITE, so Porygon 2 and Chansey can't wall Alakazam (and the occassional dusclops comes up)
I saw someone joking about ditto on the previous page. Wouldn't the quick claw be a better item than choice scarf? With quick claw you'll statistically go first a majority of the time when you consider a speed tie is 50/50 in the first place.
Tieing with Adamant Nite means nothing. If you come in on him, he gets a DD up, OHKOs you, or can Espeed you next turn. He comes in on you, you have a Sub and you can afford to be slower.
For Heatran...
1337 Stats:
| Nature | 29.3 | Timid |
Nature | 24.6 | Modest |
EVs | 36.6 | 252 SpA / 252 Spe
EVs | 2.6 | ~240 SpA / 252 Spe
Now, if we make the fairly safe assumption that every timid Heatran is high SpA + 252 Spe... 10.2% of Heatran actually are Max/Modest. Aka very few.
If you really wanted to, you can run 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe for Heatran at the sacrifice of having even weaker subs.
Either way, the set still wrecks some good shit lol.
That's not quite true. If Dragonite comes in on you with multiscale intact, then you need to tie if you want a chance to 2HKO/OHKO with sub up (you have a chance to OHKO). There are also situations where you won't have a sub up too. I'd very much consider using a jolly nature on that set anyway. Timid Heatran is certainly relevant, for starters. Then there's adamant Gyarados, adamant Dragonite, Adamant Lucario, Adamant mamoswine, Modest rotom-w etc. Pretty much all of these guys can cripple/OHKO you, while you can also OHKO them (except Gyarados).
Also, you should take a look at my medicham analysis in C&C. Your set might very well make it onto an analysis.
edit: also put my first log with your set up there. So far it's looking good.
Also, you should take a look at my medicham analysis in C&C. Your set might very well make it onto an analysis.
edit: also put my first log with your set up there. So far it's looking good.
That Medicham kind of seems like a bad Breloom to me, honestly. It's the same sort of idea of coming in on something slower than you (while usually not being able to do that), forcing a switch to get up a sub, and then getting a free KO. The difference is that without spore it can't automatically force a switch on basically anything slower than it is, since its threat is, as you noted, a choice-powered KO, meaning that people may just stay in and attack you, at which point they break your sub, discover your secret and attack again, and leave you at low enough health to be revengekilled unless you can actually OHKO them. And I mean, you will be able to OHKO them a lot of the time, but not as often as Spore puts stuff to sleep. This thing also can't switch into status like a Breloom with its orb triggered can. I dunno, obviously this fills a slightly different niche, with its better coverage and use of HJK instead of Focus Punch making it more capable outside of its sub (with the heatran situation you mentioned probably being the most significant), but I feel like the majority of the time a Breloom is a better choice on the same team.
The Zam with Protect, on the other hand, I quite like. I'd definitely not omit the /Focus Sash for the item, though, since that pretty much turns Zam into the ultimate scout. I'm lazy so I haven't done calcs, but it seems like a non-LO Focus Blast would still 2HKO Scizor, after rocks if nothing else, if an LO one does more than 70%. Maybe not as good an option, but definitely still an option. After seeing this I'm surprised that the strategydex's suggested Zam isn't Sub/Protect.
The Zam with Protect, on the other hand, I quite like. I'd definitely not omit the /Focus Sash for the item, though, since that pretty much turns Zam into the ultimate scout. I'm lazy so I haven't done calcs, but it seems like a non-LO Focus Blast would still 2HKO Scizor, after rocks if nothing else, if an LO one does more than 70%. Maybe not as good an option, but definitely still an option. After seeing this I'm surprised that the strategydex's suggested Zam isn't Sub/Protect.
No, you should play that Medicham more like a lure. Gliscor and Gyarados (after Intimidate) are OHKO'd. Offensive Dragonite will get OHKO'd half of the time through Multiscale. Things like Skarmory, Vaporeon, Jellicent, Donphan, Jirachi, Celebi and Bronzong are cleanly 2HKO'd. Hippo and Slowbro are 2HKO'd after rocks. Pair it with something like RP Landorus or Lucario.
EDIT: With Thunderpunch > Psycho Cut for coverage. Psycho Cut only hits Gengar, while Thunderpunch lets you OHKO Gyarados and 2HKO Jellicent (and also Vaporeon without risking a HJK miss).
EDIT: With Thunderpunch > Psycho Cut for coverage. Psycho Cut only hits Gengar, while Thunderpunch lets you OHKO Gyarados and 2HKO Jellicent (and also Vaporeon without risking a HJK miss).
I should have mentioned the set needs SR support. I guess DNite can fuck you over if you don't outspeed it without SR up, but if SR is up, you're fine. Even if you DON'T get SR up, Ice Punch can still bring Dnite to its knees and usually forces an Outrage or Espeed, which is why I always run Scizor with this set.
Also, really...
Jolly: 438 Attack
Adamant: 480 Attack
Yes, speed tiers. But the ability for this set to tear apart stall is much more important than outspeeding things that, for the most part, you can deal with behind a sub anyways.
Messing around with the 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe spread has convinced me its better than my old spread, though. Apparently some of my calcs were wrong and nothing else breaks subs that didn't before.
Adamant all the way, though :3
Adding sub to standard tests is what a lot of great new sets do anyways. Think Sub/DDnite, Sub/NP Thundurus, tyraniboah back in gen 3 and a LOT of others.
That's just ridiculous. Is any pokemon with a Life Orb on it automatically not creative? The set has 2/3 moves different, different evs, and it's in a different tier. Sub + LO is highly unusual, and of course, unlike most of the sets in this thread, actually meets the second important criterion from the title: actually being good.
Being creative has nothing to do with using gimmicky EV spreads, set or item or even moves.
Some of the most creative sets ever only changed one thing: SubDisable Gengar was identical in EVs, Nature, item and moves to the standard SubSplit Gengar except Pain Split was replaced with Disable and yet it played completely differently and caught most people by surprise.
Knowing when to stick to what works (because it works!) is one of the keys to being creative and successful.
Jle I suggest you stop hating before you have a horde of angry smogon users on you some of which may have infraction powers
And to make this post not a waste: my Defensive Roserade (you read that right)
Roserade @ Black Sludge
Bold
Natural Cure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
-Toxic Spikes
-Sleep Powder
-Rest
-Giga Drain
Before you try and ask what possessed me to run a bulky mon with fully invested 60/55 defenses: I don't know. But now that I've pioneered this set, it's one my team couldn't live without. What makes Roserade amazing is its carefully crafted move pool in combination with its ability and stellar defensive typing. Grass/poison resists Electric and Water and Grass, while being neutral to Rock, Bug, Ground, and Steel. That means that it's a full stop to rotom-W, but the real beauty is that it's impossible to OHKO by a combination of Volt Switch + ScarfLando/BandZor. So in theory Rosey hard counters VolTurn, and in practice he does absorb the nasty tspikes
In reality of course that's not true. That's why it has Natural Cure + Rest. I can't tell you how many people have gone for a 3 or 4hko while I spike up only to Rest in their face. It makes me tear up every time. It's that beautiful
If only Roserade had a bit more defense...
And to make this post not a waste: my Defensive Roserade (you read that right)
Roserade @ Black Sludge
Bold
Natural Cure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
-Toxic Spikes
-Sleep Powder
-Rest
-Giga Drain
Before you try and ask what possessed me to run a bulky mon with fully invested 60/55 defenses: I don't know. But now that I've pioneered this set, it's one my team couldn't live without. What makes Roserade amazing is its carefully crafted move pool in combination with its ability and stellar defensive typing. Grass/poison resists Electric and Water and Grass, while being neutral to Rock, Bug, Ground, and Steel. That means that it's a full stop to rotom-W, but the real beauty is that it's impossible to OHKO by a combination of Volt Switch + ScarfLando/BandZor. So in theory Rosey hard counters VolTurn, and in practice he does absorb the nasty tspikes
In reality of course that's not true. That's why it has Natural Cure + Rest. I can't tell you how many people have gone for a 3 or 4hko while I spike up only to Rest in their face. It makes me tear up every time. It's that beautiful
If only Roserade had a bit more defense...
^ Not a bad set, if I'm allowed to, I might try it myself. Even though Roserade's defenses aren't the best in the game, its' resistances are pretty decent, and an immunity to Toxic/Toxic Spikes are a huge plus. And I agree that Natural Cure+Rest is absolutely beautiful, it's a godsend.
As in 2 or 3 different moves that most other sets don't normally run, depending on what set you're looking at.
Where the fuck did you learn how to read?
Also the Defensive Roserade set looks okay. If you desperately need something to take on VoltTurn in one slot, it certainly looks viable.
I absolutely suck at teambuilding though, so unless I get help with it, I wouldn't know the first thing to what to use as teammates for the defensive Roserade. :S
Probably a stall team if you are using Toxic Spikes. Although I really need a copy of Making Pokemon Teams for Dummies so I might be wrong.
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