White Herb only activates when stat modifiers go below 0. A +2 Leaf Storm will bring the modifier down to 0, then another Leaf Storm will bring it down to -2 and then activate White Herb.
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Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
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I posted this in the breloom thread but I don't think many people noticed it. Tell me what you guys think:
Here's my favorite breloom set. I know Technician hasn't been released but I still really like this set for DW and for when it is released.
Name: Fiddy's Breloom
Breloom @ Leftovers
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Def / 124 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Spore
-Substitute
-Mach Punch
-Bullet Seed
The first question you might ask is why not just toxic heal breloom? Well techniloom has a few things to its advantage. First, mach punch might not hit as hard as focus punch but it doesn't need the sub or switch to work. Second, bullet seed is almost always more powerful than seed bomb. So this set is more of a wall breaker. Sub up on pokemon that will switch/use WoW/use toxic/not do much damage/etc. then you can pretty much 2HKO or 3HKO anything on the planet. 108 HP EVs gives it a perfect sub/leftovers number. 252 atk adamant can KO or 2HKO almost anything that doesnt resist. It can KO 4/0/0 excadrill with mach punch half of the time, which jolly cannot do at all. It can also 2HKO most ferrothorns, jolly can only 3HKO. 124 speed evs gives it just enough speed to outrun bold suicune. The rest goes into defense because things like ferrothorn are easy for this to set sub up. It doesn't need swords dance to sweep teams. The only thing it needs to sweep or score a few kills is an opportunity to use atleast two turns to attack which substitute grants. Again, this is mostly here to be a wall breaker and revenge killer.
Here's my favorite breloom set. I know Technician hasn't been released but I still really like this set for DW and for when it is released.
Name: Fiddy's Breloom
Breloom @ Leftovers
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Def / 124 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Spore
-Substitute
-Mach Punch
-Bullet Seed
The first question you might ask is why not just toxic heal breloom? Well techniloom has a few things to its advantage. First, mach punch might not hit as hard as focus punch but it doesn't need the sub or switch to work. Second, bullet seed is almost always more powerful than seed bomb. So this set is more of a wall breaker. Sub up on pokemon that will switch/use WoW/use toxic/not do much damage/etc. then you can pretty much 2HKO or 3HKO anything on the planet. 108 HP EVs gives it a perfect sub/leftovers number. 252 atk adamant can KO or 2HKO almost anything that doesnt resist. It can KO 4/0/0 excadrill with mach punch half of the time, which jolly cannot do at all. It can also 2HKO most ferrothorns, jolly can only 3HKO. 124 speed evs gives it just enough speed to outrun bold suicune. The rest goes into defense because things like ferrothorn are easy for this to set sub up. It doesn't need swords dance to sweep teams. The only thing it needs to sweep or score a few kills is an opportunity to use atleast two turns to attack which substitute grants. Again, this is mostly here to be a wall breaker and revenge killer.
Pretty much everybody and their grandmother uses that set. It's good but not creative in the slightest.
This one isn't particularly..new, but very, very effective in UU. I'm not combing through 28 pages of sets to figure out if it's been posted before.
Name: Fuck Off Physical Attackers
Chansey @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Nature: Bold
-Seismic Toss
-Toxic/Thunder Wave
-Softboiled
-Counter
I don't really understand why this isn't standard. When you see Chansey and its apparent weakness to physical attacks and practical immunity to special attacks, why don't you say "fuck off physical attackers" and use counter? This is particularly useful in the current UU tier because not even Scarf Heracross will OHKO this. To portray its physical bulk, the full health set has about a 30% chance of living a standard Snorlax +6 return. If you don't display return really early, you can net a few surprise kills on people that think they can kill Chansey. I have 6-0'd teams with this before. Toxic is for quickly building damage on special attackers that you can't counter, and thunder wave is to assist your team. Either way, this set is effective, but I prefer toxic.
This one isn't particularly..new, but very, very effective in UU. I'm not combing through 28 pages of sets to figure out if it's been posted before.
Name: Fuck Off Physical Attackers
Chansey @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Nature: Bold
-Seismic Toss
-Toxic/Thunder Wave
-Softboiled
-Counter
I don't really understand why this isn't standard. When you see Chansey and its apparent weakness to physical attacks and practical immunity to special attacks, why don't you say "fuck off physical attackers" and use counter? This is particularly useful in the current UU tier because not even Scarf Heracross will OHKO this. To portray its physical bulk, the full health set has about a 30% chance of living a standard Snorlax +6 return. If you don't display return really early, you can net a few surprise kills on people that think they can kill Chansey. I have 6-0'd teams with this before. Toxic is for quickly building damage on special attackers that you can't counter, and thunder wave is to assist your team. Either way, this set is effective, but I prefer toxic.
Name: Fiddy's Breloom
Breloom @ Leftovers
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Def / 124 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Spore
-Substitute
-Mach Punch
-Bullet Seed
Yeah, this is a pretty standard Techniloom set, though I opt for Swords Dance over Substitute so you can set-up on a sleeping opponent, giving you a 148-370 power multi-hit move, and 80 power priority move, making Breloom scary. Poison Heal Breloom is a brutal strategy, but most people in DW like Techniloom for its sheer offensive utility against many annoying things, such as Sturdy-Sash-Sub, finishing off weak opponents, or sweeping and causing havoc by itself. It also fares nicely against most weather teams. Something like a Focus Sash is a better choice over Sub, allowing you to take that vital hit and still remain dangerous with Mach Punch.
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Has anyone had much luck with Trapinch? Despite being a Stage one, its high attack combined with Arena Trap make it somewhat functionable.
I think Rotom-W is pretty good in general, but I personally would stick to the suggested "standard" and "choice" sets.
Sure, trick can steal an important item, but unless you give them an item back that is going to cripple them, that slot is much better off with a different move. Imo a move like volt switch is better because it can help you gain momentum even if you aren't running a choice set.
I've been trying out a Scolipede lead set.
I think Scolipede can effectively counter most leads or at least allow you to get the one up on the opponent in some way every time. Sorry for the lengthy post, but for all I know, it needs the heavy explanation.
"Leadipede"
Scolipede @ Focus Sash, Poison Point (he will be even better when DW quick feet is released)
Adamant - 252 attack/ 252 speed / 4 doesn't really matter (I suppose hp)
Megahorn, Agility, Baton Pass, Spikes
The first one up is: no one uses the bug right now (Bug Poison type btw if you don't know him either) They haven't seen this set before and generally assume all out SD attacker with some of EQ, rock slide, megahorn, poison jab, pursuit.
For hazard leads:
If you notice the opponent's team has a minimal resistance to bug, agility and do pretty heavy damage with Megahorn.
If there is decent bug resist on their team, agility then bp to a slow but powerful early sweeper.
If you see they have a weakness to hazards and decide to set your own hazards, start spiking up.
(remember focus sash can save you if, for example, a Forretress decides to explode on you as you agility)
For prankster leads:
Almost all prankster leads are weak to bug bar the genies(I admit the common genies give this set the most problem). Just Megahorn them for heavy damage. Scolipede is pretty fast even at adamant (112 base speed) so you can usually get the jump status leads (generally won't even matter except for sleep after quick feet is out). And for other suspected non-prankster taunts, if Megahorn is not resisted go for it. However, it might also be a good choice to switch Scolipede out and try to set up later especially if they resist bug.
For attacking leads:
If they are bug weak, go for the megahorn.
If they have priority, either switch or attack.
If they are most other attacking leads that don't follow the above situations, either spike or set up your early sweeper with a bp agility.
While focus sash is obviously for the ability to at least do something 99.9%, his bulk is surprising.
Somehow I managed to kill an opponent's Garchomp with Megahorn's 2HKO after surviving an Outrage with 7% left. (resulting in my sig) ...I know, low damage roll on a def. Chomp or something.
Anyway, he has rarely let me down, generally surprised opponents, and is fun no matter what!
I'm not going to pretend that I'm good at gen 5 OU, so if you see faults after trying him out, let me know. Also if you know of a lead that can do what he does better, let me know! My team will be happy to have them. (yes, argue that there is no true lead, but if they can't tell that Scolipede is lead material, you always have surprise factor)
Sure, trick can steal an important item, but unless you give them an item back that is going to cripple them, that slot is much better off with a different move. Imo a move like volt switch is better because it can help you gain momentum even if you aren't running a choice set.
I've been trying out a Scolipede lead set.
I think Scolipede can effectively counter most leads or at least allow you to get the one up on the opponent in some way every time. Sorry for the lengthy post, but for all I know, it needs the heavy explanation.
"Leadipede"
Scolipede @ Focus Sash, Poison Point (he will be even better when DW quick feet is released)
Adamant - 252 attack/ 252 speed / 4 doesn't really matter (I suppose hp)
Megahorn, Agility, Baton Pass, Spikes
The first one up is: no one uses the bug right now (Bug Poison type btw if you don't know him either) They haven't seen this set before and generally assume all out SD attacker with some of EQ, rock slide, megahorn, poison jab, pursuit.
For hazard leads:
If you notice the opponent's team has a minimal resistance to bug, agility and do pretty heavy damage with Megahorn.
If there is decent bug resist on their team, agility then bp to a slow but powerful early sweeper.
If you see they have a weakness to hazards and decide to set your own hazards, start spiking up.
(remember focus sash can save you if, for example, a Forretress decides to explode on you as you agility)
For prankster leads:
Almost all prankster leads are weak to bug bar the genies(I admit the common genies give this set the most problem). Just Megahorn them for heavy damage. Scolipede is pretty fast even at adamant (112 base speed) so you can usually get the jump status leads (generally won't even matter except for sleep after quick feet is out). And for other suspected non-prankster taunts, if Megahorn is not resisted go for it. However, it might also be a good choice to switch Scolipede out and try to set up later especially if they resist bug.
For attacking leads:
If they are bug weak, go for the megahorn.
If they have priority, either switch or attack.
If they are most other attacking leads that don't follow the above situations, either spike or set up your early sweeper with a bp agility.
While focus sash is obviously for the ability to at least do something 99.9%, his bulk is surprising.
Somehow I managed to kill an opponent's Garchomp with Megahorn's 2HKO after surviving an Outrage with 7% left. (resulting in my sig) ...I know, low damage roll on a def. Chomp or something.
Anyway, he has rarely let me down, generally surprised opponents, and is fun no matter what!
I'm not going to pretend that I'm good at gen 5 OU, so if you see faults after trying him out, let me know. Also if you know of a lead that can do what he does better, let me know! My team will be happy to have them. (yes, argue that there is no true lead, but if they can't tell that Scolipede is lead material, you always have surprise factor)
That techniloom set is not the standard one. It is a more bulky one, different EVs and takes advantage of sub. Just try it. A different ev spread and a different move that changes its role slightly means its different from the standard. I got to #2 with that set in DW and I fan honestly say that sub works great and even better than SD.
I remember using Whirlipede as a lead of sorts, taking quite a few hits and setting up Spikes and T-Spikes quite nicely. Of course it died to all the typical "I really really don't want hazards" leads so it got shelved pretty quickly. I was impressed at all the stuff it shrugged off, though. I have actually seen a couple of Scolipede leads in my time, and really they don't seem particularly bad at all, just perhaps not the best when it comes to hazards or anti-leads.
A lead I have always enjoyed is Cloyster. Spikes, T-Spikes, and Rapid Spin. People expecting Shell Smash get Spikes in their face. People expecting Spikes get a 125 power Ice move in the face. Plus its Defense is fantastic.
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As for a little thing i've been trying out, and could perhaps use improvements
Kingdra (M) @ Salac Berry Trait: Sniper
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Focus Energy
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Draco Meteor
Sniper always struck me as an interesting ability, and I am a huge fan of luck strategies. Its distibution is blagh, though - Kingdra and Octillery have Focus Energy but no crit moves. Drapion, Fearow and Beedrill have crit moves but no Focus Energy.
The other possibility is using Scyther, Blaziken or an Eeveelotion to BP Focus Energy to Drapion, who has Night Slash, Cross Poison and Slash (lol). Fearow with Drill Run would be great, but it has no other crit moves except the weak special Air Cutter.
In the scenario you do have a Focused Energy pokemon using crit moves, does a Scope Lens do anything?
A lead I have always enjoyed is Cloyster. Spikes, T-Spikes, and Rapid Spin. People expecting Shell Smash get Spikes in their face. People expecting Spikes get a 125 power Ice move in the face. Plus its Defense is fantastic.
_ _ _ _ _
As for a little thing i've been trying out, and could perhaps use improvements
Kingdra (M) @ Salac Berry Trait: Sniper
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Focus Energy
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Draco Meteor
Sniper always struck me as an interesting ability, and I am a huge fan of luck strategies. Its distibution is blagh, though - Kingdra and Octillery have Focus Energy but no crit moves. Drapion, Fearow and Beedrill have crit moves but no Focus Energy.
The other possibility is using Scyther, Blaziken or an Eeveelotion to BP Focus Energy to Drapion, who has Night Slash, Cross Poison and Slash (lol). Fearow with Drill Run would be great, but it has no other crit moves except the weak special Air Cutter.
In the scenario you do have a Focused Energy pokemon using crit moves, does a Scope Lens do anything?
Crit strategies are generally... bad in the general sense. Baton Passing Focus Energy is a generally bad idea (as the pokemon that can do so are pretty bad or better suited to offensive roles); the fact that it's focus energy you're passing and not something more useful like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot (via Mew or something) is also reason not to use it.
Also, you can't get Salac yet.
Also, you can't get Salac yet.
Scolipede is a great lead to be honest, I've seen them work well. But you don't necessarily need to lead with them. I think the issue is that I always run taunt on my leads, so anyone who tries to set up hazards is generally in a bad way. For instance, Crobat+taunt basically forces a switch, resisting all of your attacks and preventing you from doing anything. Other flying leads will also have relative ease dealing with you or doing some setup of their own.
I find Scoliopede is great to send in versus a tank and lay down hazards. He's fast and fairly sturdy.
Toxic Spikes
Spikes
Earthquake / Bulldoze
Megahorn
Is what I run - mainly because you can lay down 1 toxic spike set against almost anyone, with only a few pokemon that can outspeed you. This forces someone to switch in their poison type (if they have one) which can be to your advantage if you predict this and send in a psychic/ground type and set up. Not using him as a lead also means you don't have to worry about taunt, just magic bounce. Though admittedly, you do want hazards down ASAP... but rushing them isn't always a good idea given how experienced people are with dealing with them.
Bulldoze isn't bad on him because if you don't want to switch you can basically spam it and lower your opponent's speed if they resist megahorn, making a revenge kill easy. Though EQ is probably preferred.
All in all he's a decent pokemon for his role, but I wouldn't particularly call it a "creative" set. It's all he can do really, besides baton pass speed or attack stages.
I find Scoliopede is great to send in versus a tank and lay down hazards. He's fast and fairly sturdy.
Toxic Spikes
Spikes
Earthquake / Bulldoze
Megahorn
Is what I run - mainly because you can lay down 1 toxic spike set against almost anyone, with only a few pokemon that can outspeed you. This forces someone to switch in their poison type (if they have one) which can be to your advantage if you predict this and send in a psychic/ground type and set up. Not using him as a lead also means you don't have to worry about taunt, just magic bounce. Though admittedly, you do want hazards down ASAP... but rushing them isn't always a good idea given how experienced people are with dealing with them.
Bulldoze isn't bad on him because if you don't want to switch you can basically spam it and lower your opponent's speed if they resist megahorn, making a revenge kill easy. Though EQ is probably preferred.
All in all he's a decent pokemon for his role, but I wouldn't particularly call it a "creative" set. It's all he can do really, besides baton pass speed or attack stages.
I suppose that does make more sense to just rely on conventional boosting, though the ability to throw together the right elements to have something that able to pull out a 3x Attack that ignores all defense boosts and attack drops strikes me as niftier than conventional boosting - if that were easily achieved, that is, which it apparently isn't.
Maybe some day...
I was aiming more for DW tiers, but yeah.
Here's a fun set I've been using on my hax team. Don't judge me.
Tornadus @ Lefties
Timid l Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
- Substitute
- Swagger
- Air Slash
- Taunt / Focus Blast
Pretty straightforward hax set. And no, he is not outclassed by Serene Gracers because the main purpose of the set is using Prankster's priority subs to maximize confusion hax from Swagger. He's also really fast so he can definitely take advantage of STAB Air Slash's flinch rate too. I prefer Taunt in the last slot to take away recovery from walls and to shut down annoying baton passers. Focus Blast is handy for rounding out coverage though.
Tornadus @ Lefties
Timid l Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
- Substitute
- Swagger
- Air Slash
- Taunt / Focus Blast
Pretty straightforward hax set. And no, he is not outclassed by Serene Gracers because the main purpose of the set is using Prankster's priority subs to maximize confusion hax from Swagger. He's also really fast so he can definitely take advantage of STAB Air Slash's flinch rate too. I prefer Taunt in the last slot to take away recovery from walls and to shut down annoying baton passers. Focus Blast is handy for rounding out coverage though.
Here's a fun set I've been using on my hax team. Don't judge me.
Tornadus @ Lefties
Timid l Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
- Substitute
- Swagger
- Air Slash
- Taunt / Focus Blast
Pretty straightforward hax set. And no, he is not outclassed by Serene Gracers because the main purpose of the set is using Prankster's priority subs to maximize confusion hax from Swagger. He's also really fast so he can definitely take advantage of STAB Air Slash's flinch rate too. I prefer Taunt in the last slot to take away recovery from walls and to shut down annoying baton passers. Focus Blast is handy for rounding out coverage though.
Does this work? An even better question is, how is the rest of your team built?
Otherwise, wouldn't Thundurus be better? It has less weaknesses and can do literally the exact same set without Air Slash. Even better, it also has Thunder Wave. I realize that Air Slash is part of the hax, but still.
Even nape's Choice-band iron fist mach punch has less than a 50% chance of breaking a sub (and Tornadus has lower physical defense), so it doesn't have much to worry about. Personally though, fly/fight is a better offensive combination than Electric/Ice because of the common, and extremely fast ground-type threats in OU this Gen, so I say tornadus is better suited to running this set because it isn't a scarfchomp lure.
I think people should stop posting standard sets they think should be used more often.
(for example, I'm pretty sure I have both the chansey and the rotom-W sets sitting in my game right now.)
anyway, onto the main set. leafeon is my favorite pokemon, and I've tried to find places where it doesn't get outclassed by either sawsbuck or tangrowth. I think I found one (gimicky) way.
Leafeon @ Normal gem
Careful l Clorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpDef / 136 Spd
- Covet
- Swords dance
- Baton pass
- Leaf blade
I'm a little unsure about EV's, but the smog does reccomend trying to balance your defensive stats... (even if I think putting anything on that base 65 SpDef is like delaying a train) but onto the main point. now I bet many of you immediately stopped reading when you saw "normal gem". now there is a reason for it. covet gets powered up by normal gem from absolutley crappy damage to somewhat tolerable damage (120 base power is the gem x2's the covet's output). however, the main allure is stealing the opponent's item with that hit, while still doing somewhat decent damage. Leafeon's common counters are stuff like ferrothorn, so if you swipe their lefties, they'll be much easier to take down. I know the other moves are immensely standard, but there's not much else leafeon CAN do... oh, and I forgot to mention. the 136 Spd evs give me 520 speed under the sun, which is enough to outspeed a +speed scarfed infernape.
Ways I can improve this? (especially the EV part. I'm an idiot when it comes to that.)
(for example, I'm pretty sure I have both the chansey and the rotom-W sets sitting in my game right now.)
anyway, onto the main set. leafeon is my favorite pokemon, and I've tried to find places where it doesn't get outclassed by either sawsbuck or tangrowth. I think I found one (gimicky) way.
Leafeon @ Normal gem
Careful l Clorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpDef / 136 Spd
- Covet
- Swords dance
- Baton pass
- Leaf blade
I'm a little unsure about EV's, but the smog does reccomend trying to balance your defensive stats... (even if I think putting anything on that base 65 SpDef is like delaying a train) but onto the main point. now I bet many of you immediately stopped reading when you saw "normal gem". now there is a reason for it. covet gets powered up by normal gem from absolutley crappy damage to somewhat tolerable damage (120 base power is the gem x2's the covet's output). however, the main allure is stealing the opponent's item with that hit, while still doing somewhat decent damage. Leafeon's common counters are stuff like ferrothorn, so if you swipe their lefties, they'll be much easier to take down. I know the other moves are immensely standard, but there's not much else leafeon CAN do... oh, and I forgot to mention. the 136 Spd evs give me 520 speed under the sun, which is enough to outspeed a +speed scarfed infernape.
Ways I can improve this? (especially the EV part. I'm an idiot when it comes to that.)
I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with the nature and EV spread. You want a decently fast bulky Swords Dance Baton Pass user? At that point you're better off forgetting Leafeon and picking up something like Gliscor. But even though you like Leafeon, the only good thing it can do that Sawsbuck or Tangrowth can't do is Baton Pass, and it's outclassed in that
That set doesn't make any sense. Covet is generally a bad move because it means that you can't run an item, plus you aren't really getting extra coverage out of it. The EV's are totally off though, you currently have 72 too many EV's. This set just looks like the baton pass set with a random move thrown in.
That's actually kind of a cool leafeon set. Use covet on a would be counter, steal their item.
Say for example you use it against Victini. Now, that Victini is far less threatening (no CB or CS) and you have a relatively potent sweeper.
Still, I'm not positive that's how Normal Gem + Covet works.
It's probably better suited to UU though.
Say for example you use it against Victini. Now, that Victini is far less threatening (no CB or CS) and you have a relatively potent sweeper.
Still, I'm not positive that's how Normal Gem + Covet works.
It's probably better suited to UU though.
I don't see the reason for the Leafeon hate either. Assuming Normal Gem and Covet works that way, it seems pretty useful. In most cases it's probably better than (the occasionally praised) Knock Off since you might benefit from the item.
My guess is that the same thing that lets Flying Gem + Acrobatics work is in place for Covet. An easy test though.
My guess is that the same thing that lets Flying Gem + Acrobatics work is in place for Covet. An easy test though.
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