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I’ll let the calcs speak for themselves
+3 252+ SpA imp Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magearna: 153-180 (42 - 49.4%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+3 252+ SpA imp Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magearna: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252+ SpA Earth Plate Magearna Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD non evio imp: 514-606 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Kyogre-Primal: 88-105 (21.7 - 25.9%) -- 2.9% chance to 4HKO
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 217-256 (30.8 - 36.3%) -- 59.7% chance to 3HKO
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete: 422-500 (66.3 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Zygarde-Complete: 254-302 (39.9 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (also for prankster)
252+ SpA Earth Plate Magearna Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 156-184 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO (prank) (stopped by every prank encore user)
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 284-336 (68.2 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Lugia: 114-136 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
As I know this is all to discredit me for no apparent reason, let’s remove the Pokémon people refuse to use: Lugia, and all calculations of Thunderbolt, which I don’t bother to use on my set.
I think it’s funny to include Unaware, it’s not like I am pretending it will 1HKO before setting up. Assault Vest is great, but the thing about Magearna is that they expect it to be Flash Fire or Magic Bounce. By the time they see me using Tail Glow they didn’t plan on my setting up, and when they do send in the Unaware or RegenVesters it would be after I clicked Moonblast on their slow pivot or their direct switch in. Assault Vest looks great when they are coming in at 100% HP, but I have support for it such as Knock Off on my Gyarados-Mega.
Xerneas can also feel stopped by Unaware since it doesn’t use Moongeist Beam or Photon Geyser, but that is why it has allies, so it can work around it’s typical checks.
If you rely on Encore, that also means you can only come in when I have used a specific move. What if you send Registeel to Encore my Moonblast, but I actually clicked Judgment on the switch in? Prediction works both ways, and I am sure after using 2 Imposters on my team (as shown in the replays), I would have scouted the sets and planned accordingly...
If it came down to it Judgment has more PP than your Recovery move.
as someone who has used offensive gear in the past (simple smash with moonblast/flame judgment/sunsteel or head smash), the ate resistance is nice but the lack of power is definitely its biggest problem. the set needs a lot of conditions to be filled before attempting to sweep.
first of all, it loses if they have prankster. even if it's something that gets 2hkod by +0 attacks, like registeel or yveltal, they can just haze and then switch out into the answer. there are a lot of answers to a +0 gear, including ogre, fc chansey, arceus, and pretty much anything that isn't weak to one of its two moves, including offensive mons like mmy. and in the turns after that, it's unlikely that gear will be putting in any work at all against a competent player once they know the set.
i would overall recommend just using something like ph earth power xern, which can run spikes while getting passive recovery, status immunity, and no knock weakness (losing plate is super bad for gear), or ground move diancie, which loses to imposter but can also set hazards and has about as much power as gear without needing to set up at all.
as someone who has used offensive gear in the past (simple smash with moonblast/flame judgment/sunsteel or head smash), the ate resistance is nice but the lack of power is definitely its biggest problem. the set needs a lot of conditions to be filled before attempting to sweep.
first of all, it loses if they have prankster. even if it's something that gets 2hkod by +0 attacks, like registeel or yveltal, they can just haze and then switch out into the answer. there are a lot of answers to a +0 gear, including ogre, fc chansey, arceus, and pretty much anything that isn't weak to one of its two moves, including offensive mons like mmy. and in the turns after that, it's unlikely that gear will be putting in any work at all against a competent player once they know the set.
i would overall recommend just using something like ph earth power xern, which can run spikes while getting passive recovery, status immunity, and no knock weakness (losing plate is super bad for gear), or ground move diancie, which loses to imposter but can also set hazards and has about as much power as gear without needing to set up at all.
I think the thing people forget is the never-ending Speed boosts, since they cannot Core Enforcer away it’s ability.
When they switch out after they Haze I can easily just Tail Glow on their switch out, resetting the boosts they removed and threatening what they send in. Also, most people wouldn’t know if it is running Timid or Modest (before I made my post), therefore, if they assume Timid, then Rayquaza and Diancie-Mega would go after Magearna, before they can V-Create or Precipice Blades it.
What can Haze Yveltal and Registeel do though? Keep using Recover as I use the super Effective move? If the do that then I get Speed Boosts, if they keep using Haze I get to attack, if they switch out I get the Speed Boost at the end of the turn they switch and by then I may have gotten off s Tail Glow (I.e. predict their switch out, or if their last move was Recover, and not Haze).
I agree that Haze and Unaware is always something to consider, but I think the Tail Glow Boost more than outweighs the difference in power from Diancie-Mega:
+3 252+ SpA Magearna Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 297-349 (66.8 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 268-316 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You could mention Unaware, but I could mention Soundproof for Defensive Pokémon. You could mention Assault Vest, but that applies to all Special Attackers including -Ate, Specs, and even Contrary.
What separates Magearna front Diancie-Mega is the fact Moonblast outweighs Boomburst, and is not blocked but Dazzling like Extreme Speed is. With Speed Boosts upgrading its ability to outpace the other threats that would come in, it can go first without having hard stop blocks like Dazzling or Soundproof, while handling Imposter.
Those pros were not mentioned in your or chessking’s posts, and that’s why I feel it needs to be acknowledged here...
the cheese touch (Pheromosa) @ Choice Band
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Sunsteel Strike / Ice Hammer
I saw Poison Touch used before in OMPL or something and thought it was a cool idea to play with Merciless. Pheromosa has the benefit of being extremely speedy for a U-Turn pivot to poison enemies while switching in a check to whatever's in, and it also has the Fighting STAB to beat opposing Steel-types as well. Sunsteel Strike beats Fairy-types and is improofed by PH Zygod while Ice Hammer beats Zygod and is improofed by PH Fairies.
Beedrill-Mega is also an option since it has higher Attack and absorbs Toxic Spikes (assuming this is on a Merciless team with Toxic Spikes), but it doesn't hit Steel-types nearly as hard.
big dong man (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Fleur Cannon
- Spectral Thief
- Filler (Ice Hammer? Gear Grind? V-Create?) / Focus Energy
hm (Shedinja) @ Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 97 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed / Ice Shard
- virgin stealth rock / C H A D F O C U S E N E R G Y
- virgin uturn / C H A D B A T O N P A S S
I basically got this idea from a screenshot where a -1 Attack Blaziken OHKOs motherlove's Arceus by critting, so I jokingly suggested Baton Pass Focus Energy. Then Gurpreet got pretty into the idea and here it is.
The most notable part about this set is that it wrecks 90% of Giratinas and Zygods:
252 SpA Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina on a critical hit: 507-597 (100.5 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete on a critical hit: 591-696 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
while also decimating any tank that would wall -ate MMX which supposedly does the same thing:
252 Atk Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ho-Oh on a critical hit: 249-294 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Xerneas on a critical hit: 289-342 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield on a critical hit: 321-378 (99 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia on a critical hit: 375-444 (84.4 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 330-388 (83.7 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Sniper Mewtwo-Mega-X Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(focuspass shedinja is the new set guys it just sets up on ghosts and you can pass it to like gengar or something)
This works pretty much like Gurpreet's Sword to the Moon Rayquaza: offensive setup mon with the longevity to come in again and again. It trades priority for a lot better synergy with Volt Switch and better offensive typing.
gantz (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Psystrike
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch
see above but fast although relies on switching out a lot
I used this on a stall team and it didn't work cause one was against Andyb0y (whose team kinda fell without it) and one was against Gurpreet (who happened to have regenvest Dialga). I think it has potential, though, as long as you find a way to lure Regenvesters in and remove their vests.
the rock's gf (Diancie-Mega) @ Pixie Plate / Focus Sash
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Stealth Rock / Tri Attack / Extreme Speed
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
- V-create
lead/early game breaker diancie. i like to use this as a disruptor on hyper offense teams because hes good at denying hazards, getting them up himself, and breaking a hole in the opposing team. nothing really resists both fire and fairy besides stuff like ff registeel and hooh which really dont like getting exploded on. explosion is also super cool for momentum bc you can bring in whoever you want vs a weakened mon so contrary mmy or something can just go sicko mode.
i have never used this on non garbage teams so no replays but the set is good, trust me
penultimate yeetman (Xerneas) @ Fairium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Shell Smash
xerneas has a ton of unexplored potential i feel. this is another cool set that bears similarity to the smash regen zekrom and ph zekrom sets from a while back. basically u knock off the goggles av eviolite then eventually sweep late game w smash and 2 attacks that hit most stuff. fairium z is good at mitigating lor recoil and is also super powerful while regen is great for this mon's longevity. set isn't that good in the end because of how +2 knock isnt that strong vs registeel/hooh, imposter is annoying even with a dedicated answer in ferro/venu, and lor recoil really sucks outside of z move. still something cool tho so decided to share
BIG CHUNGUS (Xerneas) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Soundproof
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Shore Up
- Moonblast
- Thousand Waves
- Defog / Will-O-Wisp
yet another dumb xern set. ive been spamming this for literally years so decided to post it here. xern makes a good soundproof user because like audino, it isnt weak to any coverage moves bar the unusable sunsteel (and has useful draco immunity for specs ray) but unlike audino, doesnt give up all your momentum when youre forced to recover after taking 40 from broken espeed. luring in registeel with waves into zmove is a super cool attribute and moonblast deters stuff like ph mmx from coming in although regi and xern can still switch in with relative ease. this set ultimately fits on a lot of teams that need a non passive ate check that isnt incredibly unreliable like dazzling.
under the knife (Gardevoir-Mega) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Fleur Cannon
- Moonblast
- Magma Storm
gardevoir is back baby. absolutely ludicrous wallbreaker, moonblast ohkos gira while fleur ohkos dialga. psystrike is the regenvest ogre counterplay and also just takes hooh out of the sky. magma is for steels and shed because i hate them.
id put sap ph xern here but i already explained it in the rmt and everyone has lost to it anyway so i think theres no need
serious business (Xerneas) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- U-turn
- Play Rough / Moonblast
- Rapid Spin
- Lava Plume / Spectral Thief
regenvest xern. great spinner because he can burn shed and force out gira, spectral is for ff aegi and ph xern if ur scared of those guys. regen allows xern to have more flexibility than ph while still taking on stuff like refrigerate mmx easily. its serious because i have no idea how to nature this mon lol
weirder ph xern than anything this world has ever seen. waves doesnt kill steels but can pick them off from low hp while seeds shut down shed and imposter. seeds xern in general is a super cool mon. could run a different hazard over rocks if u want idk, im pretty sure this beats poisoned imposter thanks to seeds so thats nice.
When Kingdra was introduced in Gen 2, it was noted for its unresisted STAB combination, as Empoleon, Ferrothorn, Tapu Fini, and Shedinja didn’t yet exist. In Gen 3, Swift Swim took it to new heights and then when Palkia stepped in at Gen 4, it became suddenly clear that when you are providing near perfect coverage with STAB alone, all you need is a power boost to avoid being walled, and that is where this set comes in.
Improofed by Soundproof Giratina, and Tapu Fini, (Shedinja can be burned), this set uses Secret Sword to break past its checks like Ferrothorn, Chansey and AV Dialga.
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Palkia Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 351-413 (99.7 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Palkia Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre-Primal: 390-460 (96.5 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Palkia Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dialga: 411-484 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Vs Unaware or Prankster Haze-
252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Palkia Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 624-738 (98.1 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Palkia Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Unaware Chansey: 390-460 (55.3 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While Tinted Lens and Mold Breaker could work on sets that are more commonly resisted or that are easily walled by Unaware users, I find that enough hits are neutral or super effective, as is, to not need Tinted Lens (Shell Smash is a pseudo Tinted Lens).
Common Unaware users are hit by super effective hits, which acts a pseudo Shell Smash Mold Breaker (Clanging Scales vs Zygarde, Giratina, etc.)
The choice then comes between immunity to Priority, which is arguably more important after Shell Smash, or just breaking walls without overpreparing in 1 set. With more Power, due to Adaptability, Palkia is good even without Shell Smash.
Adaptability is best when supported by a team as a whole, for example, if Priority is handled by another teammate.
Palkia is not simply another Dragon whose primary STAB is walled by Steels like it’s Dragon coverage, in fact it’s Water Moves let it break past most Fairy users without a thought-
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Palkia Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 465-549 (113.4 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
VS Unaware
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Palkia Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Audino-Mega: 234-276 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I never really used Contrary myself until the suspect was brought up so I figured I would explore it to see its potential. I tried a couple different sets, like Pixie Judgment MMY and even the Contrary Mega Gengar that was posted in this thread a while back and both saw success. However my favorite one to play with was Ultra Necrozma. I had rarely used this mon and rarely used Contrary but I saw potential with its high Speed and nice mixed attacking stats combined with its signature Z move. Contrary is now banned, so you won't be able to test it out, but I figured I would share it here.
The idea of this set was to boost both or either attacking stat with Super Power or Draco Meteor to power up Photon Geyser and blow past Unaware or Fur Coat users. Photon Geyser is there for Mold Breaking mixed STAB and is necessary for Light That Burns the Sky. Super Power is the main method of boosting Physical Attack (other than a bounced Strength Sap) and is nice for hitting Steel-, Normal- and Dark-types. Draco Meteor is powerful STAB that boosts Special Attack and hits opposing Dragons hard. Strength Sap helps gives Ultra Necrozma some longevity as it can otherwise be quickly worn down by U-turn and other chip.
I gave it a Naive nature for mixed attacking and so that Draco Meteor hits Imposter users a little bit harder. I used 30 SpA IVs so that Photon Geyser and Light That Burns the Sky are physical attacks when unboosted. This allows Ultra Necrozma to nuke things like Regenvest Primal Kyogre or Fur Coat Chansey with the Z move by hitting their weaker defensive stats.
This set had the usual downfalls Ultra Necrozma faces; weak to -ate users, unfortunate speed tier, and less raw power than similar breakers like the Mewtwos and Mega Rayquaza. However it did have a shot at beating some -ate users if it already had boosts from Super Power.
Here are some calcs to show what this set can do both with and without boosts. I didn't go through the trouble of showing each variation of +1 or +2 against each mon but you can see that not many walls are switching into a damage dealing move and then taking Photon or LTBTS.
Chansey
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey: 210-248 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- 20% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 522-615 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Primal Kyogre
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre: 297-351 (73.5 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Arceus
+2 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 274-324 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Audino
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 107-126 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 265-313 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yveltal
+6 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Unaware Yveltal: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
I never really used Contrary myself until the suspect was brought up so I figured I would explore it to see its potential. I tried a couple different sets, like Pixie Judgment MMY and even the Contrary Mega Gengar that was posted in this thread a while back and both saw success. However my favorite one to play with was Ultra Necrozma. I had rarely used this mon and rarely used Contrary but I saw potential with its high Speed and nice mixed attacking stats combined with its signature Z move. Contrary is now banned, so you won't be able to test it out, but I figured I would share it here.
The idea of this set was to boost both or either attacking stat with Super Power or Draco Meteor to power up Photon Geyser and blow past Unaware or Fur Coat users. Photon Geyser is there for Mold Breaking mixed STAB and is necessary for Light That Burns the Sky. Super Power is the main method of boosting Physical Attack (other than a bounced Strength Sap) and is nice for hitting Steel-, Normal- and Dark-types. Draco Meteor is powerful STAB that boosts Special Attack and hits opposing Dragons hard. Strength Sap helps gives Ultra Necrozma some longevity as it can otherwise be quickly worn down by U-turn and other chip.
I gave it a Naive nature for mixed attacking and so that Draco Meteor hits Imposter users a little bit harder. I used 30 SpA IVs so that Photon Geyser and Light That Burns the Sky are physical attacks when unboosted. This allows Ultra Necrozma to nuke things like Regenvest Primal Kyogre or Fur Coat Chansey with the Z move by hitting their weaker defensive stats.
This set had the usual downfalls Ultra Necrozma faces; weak to -ate users, unfortunate speed tier, and less raw power than similar breakers like the Mewtwos and Mega Rayquaza. However it did have a shot at beating some -ate users if it already had boosts from Super Power.
Here are some calcs to show what this set can do both with and without boosts. I didn't go through the trouble of showing each variation of +1 or +2 against each mon but you can see that not many walls are switching into a damage dealing move and then taking Photon or LTBTS.
Chansey
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey: 210-248 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- 20% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 522-615 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Primal Kyogre
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre: 297-351 (73.5 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Arceus
+2 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 274-324 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Audino
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 107-126 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 265-313 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yveltal
+6 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Unaware Yveltal: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
I like that you took my idea of lowering SpA to 30 IVs so Photon Geyser, and now Light That Burns The Sky, can be physical. It’s good to see the uniqueness of Necrozma-Ultra highlighted in such a way that really solidifies its niche.
The only other good Pokémon that can do that is Deoxys-A for being a powerful Psychic-type that carries matching offensive stats.
I am happy your set works for you! Now that Contrary is gone, I wonder what we can come up with next?
I discussed with Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request) last night on Discord on possible sets for it to use, such as with Adaptability, and I think the other cool thing about Necrozma-Ultra, is that it has just enough power to use Life Orb V-Create to KO Registeel, and even Zygarde-Complete with Clanging Scales (no Specs/Z-move or Draco Meteor required).
With a Lonely nature, you can keep SpA at 31 IVs, as the +Atk, -Def already pushed Photon Geyser to Physical. Still, the forgotten benefit of Photon Geyser is that even if you get Burnt, or affected by King’s Shield or Sap Strength, Adaptability and Life Orb keep Photon Geyser at near the same power as before (the only difference being the Nature for +Atk), and do if you hit something with equal defenses like +Spe nature Soundproof Arceus, you will deal around the same damage.
A Lonely nature is chosen because you are already reducing Defense from Clanging Scales, so if you haven’t used V-Create yet, as least you can survive a last resort Triage Oblivion Wing off of Modest Rayquaza-Mega before you hit it with Clanging Scales, whereas sparing its Defense stat is a lost cause.
252+ Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 367-432 (100.8 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 619-728 (97.3 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery without Steath Rocks
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 562-665 (88.3 - 104.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (25% chance without Steath Rocks)
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 320-377 (79.2 - 93.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 530-624 (105.1 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The final moveslot I wasn’t sure on what to select, as it can certainly walk break as shown above without any setup, but to secure KOs against maybe RegenVesters, or Fur Coat variants resistant to Photon Geyser and weak to V-Create, it may be helpful to add Shell Smash or some additional coverage move. Shell Smash can also be helpful bc you are not +Speed and even if you were, V-Create lowers your Speed now that Contrary is gone.
I’ll let you guys decide. I wouldn’t bother with Strength Sap bc with V-Create and Clanging Scales, you are already losing at least 1 of your 2 Defenses with half of your moveset.
For both sets Timid provides a way to outspeed Necrozma-Ultra, MMX, Arceus, and Gengar-Mega, as well as opposing +Spe Greninja-Ash.
I recently decided to demonstrate that Ash-Greninja can surpass Rayquaza-Mega as a Specs user due to raw power:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Spout (115 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 366-432 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (77% HEALTH)
252 SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 366-432 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So after taking almost 2 Stealth Rocks’ worth of damage it can equal Rayquaza’s strongest move.
What if at full HP?
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 475-559 (106.9 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Giving a Rayquaza a +SpA nature still pales in comparison:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 402-474 (90.5 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Ash-Greninja also has a stronger priority move in Water Shuriken compared to Rayquaza’s Extreme Speed:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 147-174 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- approx. 100% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 141-166 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- 87.1% chance to 3HKO
How about with 4 hits?
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (15 BP) (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 196-232 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- approx. 5.9% chance to 2HKO
And with 5 hits?
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 245-290 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So unless Greninja gets unlucky and only strikes 2 hits, it will always be stronger, and has the added advantage of breaking past Focus Sash and Substitutes.
Now when it comes to using the same move both can benefit from using Secret Sword to hit Chansey, Assault Vest Dialga and others, so let’s compare their difference in power:
Less than a 2% difference when super Effective. Absolutely Minimal.
Now let’s compare when Rayquaza actually does better VS Ash-Greninja:
Red Orb Groudon, Kyogre-Primal, Ferrothorn, Giratina, non-AV Zygarde-Complete, non-AV Dialga.
For AV Zygarde-Complete (both can only 2HKO Zygarde-Complete letting it come in via slow pivot as a soft check and then U-Turn our the same turn it is hit while Draco Meteor loses -2 SpA and Greninja-Ash loses HP for Water Spout - and Zygarde-Complete replenishes HP on the switch out- ready to come back in and continue to take weaker hits).
For non-AV Dialga forces Secret Sword to be a better option than Draco Meteor, which they can both use without STAB- making them pretty even in damage output.
When it comes to non-AV Dialga as well as Ferrothorn, they are 2HKOed by Secret Sword, instead of 1HKOed by Draco Meteor or Boomburst, respectively, while Giratina is 2HKOed by Night Daze instead of 1HKOed by Draco Meteor.
Similarly, Draco Meteor 1HKOs non-AV Neutral natured Zygarde-Complete, while Water Spout only does so 25% of the time. Further it is immune to Ground and some entry hazards.
Still, here are the advantages for using Greninja-Ash:
Soundproof Pokemon, High BP that doesn’t diminish per use (Draco requires you to switch), Steels - especially those not weak to Fighting (Magearna, Solgaleo, Dusk-Mane, Celesteela, Aegislash), Water Shuriken breaking past Focus Sash and Substitutes, and of course having more Base power for all of those neutral hits, immunity to Prankster and Psychic.
252 SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 187-221 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 141-167 (43.5 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in Heavy Rain: 463-546 (116.3 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Overall, this is a Pokémon that is slightly faster, hits harder on both its main attack and it’s priority Attack, and about equal in its Secret Sword coverage move. The only advantage Rayquaza has is using Draco Meteor against Dragons which can be played around with Assault Vest, and Fairy types since it loses -2 SpA per hit, or gets Choice locked. Boomburst also can get Choice locked into Soundproof Pokémon.
Red Orb Groudon can be checked by Greninja-Ash just as easily as Groudon can check Greninja-Ash due to changing the weather, making it even better than Kyogre-Primal due to always outspeeding Groudon, and it’s potential (Electric Surge) Bolt Strike (if considering Primordial Sea Kyogre-Primal).
As for more consistent damage and secondary coverage that can handle some of its counters like Giratina, Mega Launcher keeps Origin Pulse consistent, boosts Dark Pulse to 1HKO Relaxed Giratina, frees up a moveslot to replace Water Shuriken with Ice coverage for Zygarde-Complete, and can use Aura Sphere over Secret Sword to negate Assault Vest with an equivalent 50% boost to Pulse moves:
Now compare how close Aura Sphere with Mega Launcher is to Secret Sword vs Assault Vest Dialga:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Greninja-Ash Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Dialga: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This Mega Launcher also allows it to hit Ferrothorn and Giratina for the 1HKO, taking away the niches Specs Ray had over Primordial Sea Greninja-Ash
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Greninja-Ash Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ferrothorn: 348-410 (98.8 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 510-600 (101.1 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Don’t worry though, Mega Launcher Origin Pulse is still on Par with Aerilate Boomburst in raw power:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Greninja-Ash Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 348-411 (78.3 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 366-432 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A 4.7% (21 HP) max Damage difference.
Another disadvantage of Rayquaza-Mega is that it is completely vulnerable to Core Enforcer, and in addition to its Dragon weakness, it loses its Flying STAB completely, while Greninja-Ash simply loses power but not its main STAB coverage.
Overall, I would consider Greninja-Ash as a Specs user for 1 of 2 options over Rayquaza-Mega:
1. Primordial Sea: More power in Water Spout and Water Shuriken, the ability to 1HKO most Steels, and function as a Water type that can check Primal Groudon with its Water STAB. Similar power in Secret Sword, and acceptable power in Dark Pulse to scare Giratina.
2. Mega Launcher: KO most non-AV Steels via Origin Pulse for Magearna, Dark Pulse for Dusk-Mane/Solgaleo/Aegislash, and Aura Sphere for Ferrothorn/Dialga, KO Giratina, and KO Zygarde-Complete with Blizzard (Specs Ray sometimes opt for Magma Storm which has about the same accuracy as Blizzard for their type coverage)..
Rayquaza-Mega has great coverage and good power, but Greninja-Ash can have more immediate power or good power with great coverage (Dark + Fighting).
The choice comes down to what your team needs, but I just thought it would be helpful to point out that a Modest Greninja-Ash has only 21 less SpA actual points (after Specs) as Naive Rayquaza-Mega, and with their damage being very similar with Secret Sword, you can see how that minimal difference can allow for a faster, and in many cases, stronger Specs user.
Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 208 HP / 0 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Water Shuriken
- Night Daze
- Secret Sword
208 HP EVs bc it can be at 115 Base power rather than 112 Base power when at 77%, due to having an HP divisible by 16 + 1.
Blizzard is for KOing Calm Zygarde-Complete, but Ice Beam is more consistent for hitting Rayquaza-Mega, Garchomp-Mega, plus it helps to hit Sceptile-Mega that try to switch in on a predicted Origin Pulse.
In total- even +SpA Rayquaza’s STAB moves will be less powerful than even a Timid Greninja-Ash’s Water Spout.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 433-510 (97.5 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 402-474 (90.5 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
As for being Modest, this keeps its other moves including Water Shuriken and Secret Sword on par with Rayquaza-Mega with a more common +Spe nature.
The real surprise for most people reading this however, is seeing how Water Shuriken surpasses Extreme Speeds off just 3 / 5 hits, and has more utility in breaking Focus Sash, Subsitutes, and of course having a higher chance of scoring critical hits.
I am really upset bc the Setpedia listed only +Spe natures and I thought it was to outspeed stuff like Jolly Kartana and Hasty Magic Guard Diancie-Mega.
Plus, I added as you typed that even a Timid Greninja-Ash outdamages +SpA Rayquaza-Mega, with Water Spout.
In either case, my point still stands: Modest Water Shuriken > Extreme Speed and Timid / Modest Water Spout > +SpA Boomburst / Draco Mateo under Rain.
Now: if Rayquaza-Mega wants to go toe-to-toe with Mega Launcher Greninja-Ash, it will be hit by Greninja-Ash first with Ice Beam. Aerilate Extreme Speed is without any major boost, so there.
That's a neat comparison. However, another thing to point out is that a big perk of running Ash-Greninja is its speed. While Modest is definitely an option on it, sacrificing the speed you get with Timid really hurts Ash-Greninja's match up with threats like MMX, Mega Gengar, and +Spe Arceus. Each of those match ups are guaranteed or extremely likely to OHKO with Timid and 150 BP Water Spout.
Also, I tested out the 208 HP and after getting sent out on one layer or Spikes or Stealth Rock, both 208 HP and 252 HP Ash-Greninja have 75.1% HP and a 112 BP Water Spout.
As for Mega Rayquaza's nature, I agree with skylake that pretty much almost every Specs Mega Rayquaza is running +SpA. It is not unheard of to see +Spe, but the power from +SpA is too good to pass up on.
also you are relying on the idea that greninja has full health, which it rarely does besides the first time it comes out. You don't want to have a breaker that is dependent on having more than 80% health because of stealth rock and residual damage. This also means that, unlike Rayquaza, Greninja can't be allowed to take even pivot move chip because then it's pretty much lost all its niche over rayquaza as even an Audino U-Turn will bring it below the 75% threshold. I would just slash out that whole primordial sea set because it is just too reliant on everything going right to be effective.
If you go for mega launcher instead, things are a little better. THe junky longevity and vulnerable to all pivoting moves is a big problem though, but Origin Pulse only has 85% accuracy which is just sad. Aura Sphere is kind of junk to be locked into also which would be your best way to hit AV Dialga which would otherwise easily switch into you. I could legit see the set working though, if yo could lure/weaken the counters, which I think you could probably do with a single mon like banded Kart or after a layer of Spikes.
That's a neat comparison. However, another thing to point out is that a big perk of running Ash-Greninja is its speed. While Modest is definitely an option on it, sacrificing the speed you get with Timid really hurts Ash-Greninja's match up with threats like MMX, Mega Gengar, and +Spe Arceus. Each of those match ups are guaranteed or extremely likely to OHKO with Timid and 150 BP Water Spout.
Also, I tested out the 208 HP and after getting sent out on one layer or Spikes or Stealth Rock, both 208 HP and 252 HP Ash-Greninja have 75.1% HP and a 112 BP Water Spout.
As for Mega Rayquaza's nature, I agree with skylake that pretty much almost every Specs Mega Rayquaza is running +SpA. It is not unheard of to see +Spe, but the power from +SpA is too good to pass up on.
Well, yes, I didn’t want to use full HP EVs because that forces me to be at 78% HP, I think you tried to say I incorrectly calculated it, but my original post says 77%, not 75%. So for taking 25% that makes it 112 Base power, but for taking 23% that makes it 115 Base power.
Here is the screenshot:
I agree in general it won’t help, but it may help down the line when hit by some flat damage. (For example, in one match I had Switched into an opponent that tricked my Life Orb Magic Guard Diancie with Scarf and they received Life Orb, then when I switched to my Greninja I took SR Damage and they tricked away my Specs. Now after my first attack I will take 10% from Life Orb, totaling 22.5% which allows me to hang on to 115 Base Power at 77.5% HP instead of 112 at 78% HP if fully EV’d).
Thanks for your suggestions on Timid, I had previously included my Timid Calcs to show that Water Spout still breaks Arceus and hits it harder than +SpA Rayquaza-Mega’s Boomburst.
But yes, it’s definitely an option for KOing MMX, Gengar, Necrozma-Ultra (Night Daze!), and Arceus. I will slash the nature. And add this reasoning in a soon edit.
______
also you are relying on the idea that greninja has full health, which it rarely does besides the first time it comes out. You don't want to have a breaker that is dependent on having more than 80% health because of stealth rock and residual damage. This also means that, unlike Rayquaza, Greninja can't be allowed to take even pivot move chip because then it's pretty much lost all its niche over rayquaza as even an Audino U-Turn will bring it below the 75% threshold. I would just slash out that whole primordial sea set because it is just too reliant on everything going right to be effective.
If you go for mega launcher instead, things are a little better. THe junky longevity and vulnerable to all pivoting moves is a big problem though, but Origin Pulse only has 85% accuracy which is just sad. Aura Sphere is kind of junk to be locked into also which would be your best way to hit AV Dialga which would otherwise easily switch into you. I could legit see the set working though, if yo could lure/weaken the counters, which I think you could probably do with a single mon like banded Kart or after a layer of Spikes.
I would say that Prankster immunity has its perks such as blocking Prankster Parting Shot, a Key pivoting Move, not only would that negate the Specs boost but it would allow a Pokémon to pivot out of Rayquaza-Mega. Greninja-Ash probably won’t allow a slow pivot to live due to the raw power it has, otherwise it wouldn’t stay in.
Having Wish, Leech Seed, etc. support can help Greninja-Ash stay healthy and since you are slow pivoting in Ash-Greninja in anyways, not to mention using an Imposterproof, having a Leech Seed Venusaur which isn’t as threatened by Imposter without Specs makes it easier to deal with. Chansey or other Pokémon with Wish can also prove extraordinarily helpful.
I agree it takes a specific team to help it, but using it as a lead, or using the support you stated earlier will prove fruitful.
Being locked into Aura Sphere is better than Rayquaza being locked into Secret Sword because of the Base power negating the AV a Dialga would use, and being 120 vs 85 Base power. I don’t see how it’s any worse unless versus Chansey.
Also, the great thing about Mega Launcher that I never mentioned is how it can get rain Support, allowing it to surpass even Prim Sea Water Spout
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Greninja-Ash Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete in Rain: 559-658 (87.8 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
That’s without any super effective coverage.
I agree it’s more reliable to use Mega Launcher and Prim Sea is best as a supported Pokemon or a lead, but let’s not forget the choice lock for Ray- Draco can force you out if you mispredict on a Steel, Fairy, or strong Pokémon like Eviolite Chansey, Boomburst can be blocked by Soundproof and over time those switch in and out against Stealth Rocks chip away much faster than it hurts Greninja.
————
Overall thank you each for your feedback- I very much appreciate your help and consideration.
You do give up being completely immune to imposter sure, but youre generally stronger and bulkier, as well. Also actually using stab.You also miss out on hitting both steels se, but prank regi isnt a very common prankster in high ladder rn, most people opting for prankster dragons. And aegislash is literally the worst wall in the entire meta do not use this mon.
252+ SpA Galvanize Zekrom Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 153-181 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Galvanize Zekrom Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 153-181 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
Unawares are also kinda dead, so idk why the kyogre calc is there.
Two dragon mons, as required:
252+ SpA Draco Plate Zekrom Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 306-360 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Draco Plate Zekrom Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 258-306 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Obligatory imposter calcs:
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Zekrom Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252- SpD Eviolite Chansey: 714-842 (101.4 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Galvanize Chansey Extreme Speed vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 91-107 (22.5 - 26.4%) -- 18.9% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ SpA Galvanize Chansey Boomburst vs. -1 252 HP / 252- SpD Zekrom: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Chansey Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252- SpD Zekrom: 298-351 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Both of these are pretty bad sets, though I'd much rather utilize both my stabs while running shell smash and be a fairly reliable self-improof mon rather than be frailer and generally weaker with my ability as lando.
You are immune to Multi-Attack thanks to Galvanize, gain STAB off of Precipice Blades, have Bolt/Beam coverage via the 3rd slot, and can KO Imposter after Shell Smash
Unfortunately, this is no longer true. They fixed the bug a while back, and now Multi-Attack and Judgment are always Normal-type attacks unless you hold a plate or memory. -ate abilities no longer effect the typing of these attacks.
Unfortunately, this is no longer true. They fixed the bug a while back, and now Multi-Attack and Judgment are always Normal-type attacks unless you hold a plate or memory. -ate abilities no longer effect the typing of these attacks.
And it specifically skipped Galvanize, even though they were both introduced in the same generation.
Since they mentioned electrify and Ion deluge, it seems like they were very clear on everything else.
I guess the only option left would be to make Landorus-Therian Refrigerate and give it Last Resort so Imposter cannot use it. Or Freeze Shock and a Icium-Z Crystal.
EDITS:
That also means Judgment on Imposter surpass what Zovrah ’s Calcs suggest because he omitted the move in general, as it would deal 100 Base unSTABbed Normal-type damage which is not resisted:
+2 252+ SpA Chansey Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252- SpD Zekrom: 298-351 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So we both didn’t do enough testing while submitting a set...
Also, Pokémon Showdown still Calcs it off of the -ate Ability so it is bc of that we both got confused:
+2 252+ SpA Galvanize Chansey Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252- SpD Zekrom: 133-157 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
Now that I've qualified for the bhtl I thought I'd post the team I've mainly been using for it because it has some wacky sets.
Firstly here is the team: https://pokepast.es/4d3555d8424d44ce
It's pretty bad and has a load of problems I didn't bother fixing, I got about 1650 with it after a couple days but that's mostly due to the unusual amount of HO people were running which this has a good matchup vs usually (shoutout pazza for the puntos)
Now the creative sets (not underrated bc they're mostly bad):
This set was suggested by OM! in the OM discord and while it's like a lot of gimmicky sets low ladder runs I thought it was interesting enough to try. The basis of the set is outspeeding the majority of mons and sporing them to shut down some offensive mons or trapping and killing with passive damage. It also has the advantage of beating even scarf imposter which many Deo-S sets are forced out by. It can do a lot of work if you manage to trap something with infestation then spore without dying, but thanks to having 0 bulk this is not easy and it can be basically dead weight in a lot of matchups once they know the set (if they have a good PH mon, a grass type, magic guard mon etc) and the occasional safety goggles is annoying. Overall I think the unreliability of this set due to matchups is not worth the amount you gain from it, although it might have been better pre sleep clause with good knock off support. However it isn't a completely worthless set with being able to chip mons to help sweeps and stop a lot of offensive mons in a pinch but I'd say don't use this, I gave it a shot and it wasn't great.
Fairly boring Mgar set next, nothing to see here. Although it's worth noting it's super duper annoying when imposter can set rocks on you :[
This set is seriously awful if they don't have HO, it really struggles to kill anything except Rayquaza but I needed some panic buttons somewhere and it helps vs dumb stuff so that's good. The EVs can probably be better, I was too lazy to actually calc how low the bulk needed to be. Don't even think about using this outside of meme HO. Worst set on the team hands down. The diancie people used a while back was much better imo.
After this not quite standard but not too unusual slaking. Using slaking because it's more improof without sleep.
This is probably my favourite TechnicallyHasANicheTM sets. Does like 70% of that scarf chansey does with scouting and rking you just can't switch in much. The niche is that against slow scarf and unburden mons you can mega evolve to outspeed them, the best examples being ttar and dusk mane and also you can occasionally mega against a tina to nuke them with core enforcer off 180spatk and do like 60 which is fun. Plus if the scenario is right it can clean up a late game if you mega then come back in. Not sure about the moves, only Dragon Ascent is really needed. This set is good but only because imposter is broken af, you're better off with chansey obviously.
rawr~ (Solgaleo) @ Icium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Strength Sap
- Anchor Shot
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
Defensive FC steels are super underrated I think and in general they're cool. This set however is an offensive take on the idea, designed to act as an excellent blanket wall while not being completely passive. You could use dusk mane too but outspeeding yvel, xern, kyurems, ho-oh etc is quite nice. I originally had ice hammer adamant which was maybe better and is probably what you'd want on dusk mane. Defensively this can switch into most mmx sets and can stay in on almost all, you can stay in on most pdon if they have no setup and if they switch into anchor shot you can actually set up on them (but you need to strength sap at full HP to live the first v-create), you can wall standard -atespeed mega diancie and ray although boom does a huge chunk and you hard wall kyub and pretty much any physical mon barring a few, even band adapt chomp you can check. Offensively it isn't going to smash through teams, but if their prank mon is dead and their steel mon weak then you can usually kill whats left if they're not planning for you to be HO fc solg. Other options I've considered but not used are the same set with steelium, running low kick over icy move but that leaves you hard hard walled by the dragons, twaves over anchor shot for better coverage but then imposter kills you if you're not lucky, you cant trap ray and you have no stab, but you can actually hit steels and waters (kinda), also I thought about spirit shackle low kick but that just sounds unusable. Someone also suggested mega metagross which might be better idk. This set is the only one I'd say is worth thinking about, really versatile as a wall and fun to use. You can always use shore up which is a lot more reliable but you lose the rush you get from trapping and setting up on pdon.
Here's a random self improof dialga set I used once
Dialga @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Doom Desire
- Roar
- Shore Up
- Anchor Shot
Z-final gambit is really stronk, not sure what to do with this info.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Stored Power
- Final Gambit
- Counter
Whatever I should do with it this aint it
Now that I've qualified for the bhtl I thought I'd post the team I've mainly been using for it because it has some wacky sets.
Firstly here is the team: https://pokepast.es/4d3555d8424d44ce
It's pretty bad and has a load of problems I didn't bother fixing, I got about 1650 with it after a couple days but that's mostly due to the unusual amount of HO people were running which this has a good matchup vs usually (shoutout pazza for the puntos)
Now the creative sets (not underrated bc they're mostly bad):
This set was suggested by OM! in the OM discord and while it's like a lot of gimmicky sets low ladder runs I thought it was interesting enough to try. The basis of the set is outspeeding the majority of mons and sporing them to shut down some offensive mons or trapping and killing with passive damage. It also has the advantage of beating even scarf imposter which many Deo-S sets are forced out by. It can do a lot of work if you manage to trap something with infestation then spore without dying, but thanks to having 0 bulk this is not easy and it can be basically dead weight in a lot of matchups once they know the set (if they have a good PH mon, a grass type, magic guard mon etc) and the occasional safety goggles is annoying. Overall I think the unreliability of this set due to matchups is not worth the amount you gain from it, although it might have been better pre sleep clause with good knock off support. However it isn't a completely worthless set with being able to chip mons to help sweeps and stop a lot of offensive mons in a pinch but I'd say don't use this, I gave it a shot and it wasn't great.
Fairly boring Mgar set next, nothing to see here. Although it's worth noting it's super duper annoying when imposter can set rocks on you :[
This set is seriously awful if they don't have HO, it really struggles to kill anything except Rayquaza but I needed some panic buttons somewhere and it helps vs dumb stuff so that's good. The EVs can probably be better, I was too lazy to actually calc how low the bulk needed to be. Don't even think about using this outside of meme HO. Worst set on the team hands down. The diancie people used a while back was much better imo.
After this not quite standard but not too unusual slaking. Using slaking because it's more improof without sleep.
This is probably my favourite TechnicallyHasANicheTM sets. Does like 70% of that scarf chansey does with scouting and rking you just can't switch in much. The niche is that against slow scarf and unburden mons you can mega evolve to outspeed them, the best examples being ttar and dusk mane and also you can occasionally mega against a tina to nuke them with core enforcer off 180spatk and do like 60 which is fun. Plus if the scenario is right it can clean up a late game if you mega then come back in. Not sure about the moves, only Dragon Ascent is really needed. This set is good but only because imposter is broken af, you're better off with chansey obviously.
rawr~ (Solgaleo) @ Icium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Strength Sap
- Anchor Shot
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
Defensive FC steels are super underrated I think and in general they're cool. This set however is an offensive take on the idea, designed to act as an excellent blanket wall while not being completely passive. You could use dusk mane too but outspeeding yvel, xern, kyurems, ho-oh etc is quite nice. I originally had ice hammer adamant which was maybe better and is probably what you'd want on dusk mane. Defensively this can switch into most mmx sets and can stay in on almost all, you can stay in on most pdon if they have no setup and if they switch into anchor shot you can actually set up on them (but you need to strength sap at full HP to live the first v-create), you can wall standard -atespeed mega diancie and ray although boom does a huge chunk and you hard wall kyub and pretty much any physical mon barring a few, even band adapt chomp you can check. Offensively it isn't going to smash through teams, but if their prank mon is dead and their steel mon weak then you can usually kill whats left if they're not planning for you to be HO fc solg. Other options I've considered but not used are the same set with steelium, running low kick over icy move but that leaves you hard hard walled by the dragons, twaves over anchor shot for better coverage but then imposter kills you if you're not lucky, you cant trap ray and you have no stab, but you can actually hit steels and waters (kinda), also I thought about spirit shackle low kick but that just sounds unusable. Someone also suggested mega metagross which might be better idk. This set is the only one I'd say is worth thinking about, really versatile as a wall and fun to use. You can always use shore up which is a lot more reliable but you lose the rush you get from trapping and setting up on pdon.
Here's a random self improof dialga set I used once
Dialga @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Doom Desire
- Roar
- Shore Up
- Anchor Shot
Z-final gambit is really stronk, not sure what to do with this info.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Stored Power
- Final Gambit
- Counter
Whatever I should do with it this aint it
Secure a 1 HP remaining from even mild hits like Rapid Spin, and I still suggest 252 SpA EVs so that you can use Photon if hit by King’s Shield, Strength Sap (on the switch in), or random Burns (say you get hit by Scarf Steam Eruption Kyogre-Primal while holding onto Focus Sash, and then during the turn you are Burned you use Photon Geyser for more damage before you get KOed at the end of the turn).
*Note if Hasty, use 30 SpA IVs, so Photon uses the Atk stat and bypasses Assault Vest.
While Shell Smash is nice, it’s not really necessary on this set, as each coverage move has over 200 Base power.
I call it a wall breaker more than a Sweeper, since it punishes what normally switches into it - walls.
Most sweepers assume Sash (and Smash) anyways and likely Dazzling, so they are less inclined to bother coming in.
Arceus 1HKO
252+ Atk Deoxys-Attack Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 426-502 (95.9 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Deoxys-Attack Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 388-458 (87.3 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Cresselia 2HKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Deoxys-Attack Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 233-275 (52.4 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
While threatened by Rocky Helmet, Fur Coat, and Priority, providing Psychic Terrain alleviates all of these issues for neutral hits:
Photon Geyser becomes stronger than neutral 200 Base power Reversal, and only mildly weaker than 240 Base power Flail, because the Terrain makes Photon Geyser 225 Base Power.
This means you can use it to bypass Rocky Helmet for finishing blows, while the Terrain itself blocks Priority Attacks, and enables it to bypass Fur Coat or Unaware so that it can better damage non-Imposter Chansey:
VS Fur Coat Chansey 2HKO
252+ Atk Deoxys-Attack Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey: 406-478 (57.6 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs Fur Coat Chansey 2HKO
252+ Atk Deoxys-Attack Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 456-537 (64.7 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Psychic Terrain also enables Deoxys-A to Attack before using up the Focus Sash, due to Photon Geyser’s raw power, and is Imposterproof while it still has Focus Sash- letting it 1HKO Imposter regardless of item.
Imposter 0 Defense IVs
252+ Atk Deoxys-Attack Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 675-795 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Mind you, the entire calculations lists are all before setting up with Shell Smash (the fourth move), and basically enables Deoxys-A to wall break the toughest of walls without much effort, while sweeping everything else due to Shell Smash’s Boost.
Deoxys-A is used for being high Atk (sorry Lopunny-Mega), and high enough Speed to outpace Jolly MMX (even while bluffing Hasty Natured, even when Lonely Natured so MMY will often switch out even though they will be faster).
Obviously Hasty can be used for things like Beedrill, MMY, and the odd Sceptile-Mega, but I prefer the Lonely Nature since you can bluff Hasty anyways (why else would you send it in vs MMY if it wasn’t faster - they assume).
Also, used over MMX bc if frailty, and the fact that with a Lonely Nature it has more Attack than Jolly MMX, and as you can tell - many of these Calcs are barely able to 1HKO, so every Attack point counts.
Lastly I use it bc it has high SpA, which lets it hit on the Special side better than a MMX can, (as mentioned prior if hit by King’s Shield, etc.)
Overall, it’s unique, yet effective. Teams need to be built for support but for my own teams I used:
The slashes indicate the 2nd Magearna on the team, as I know having Toxic Spikes add up on your foe during your own turns of switches can be helpful, while Stealth Rock can hurt them on their switches into you (Shedinja, Focus Sash, etc.)
I feel like Magearna covers a lot for my Pokémon, bc not only does it discourage Core Enforcer, and Fairy moves, (allowing for easier switches to MMX, and Necrozma-Ultra) but it can ensure that it’s not just a passive pixie since it can rack up damage with Toxic Spikes while it continues to set up.
Spectral Thief with a Lonely Nature and 25 Def IVs is just enough for it to KO Imposter after a Shell Smash. With Unburden activating on Psychic Seed due to Psychic Terrain, it outspeeds Scarf Imposter, doubles its offensive Stats, and can stay safe from Priority under Psychic Terrain.
Lastly, if I just need an immediate wall breaker and cannot send in Deoxys-A, or MMX for Shell Smash (say a Spectral Thief user is on the field), then I use my previous Creative and Underrated Set, which gained a lot of support from other prominent users here:
I like that you took my idea of lowering SpA to 30 IVs so Photon Geyser, and now Light That Burns The Sky, can be physical. It’s good to see the uniqueness of Necrozma-Ultra highlighted in such a way that really solidifies its niche.
The only other good Pokémon that can do that is Deoxys-A for being a powerful Psychic-type that carries matching offensive stats.
I am happy your set works for you! Now that Contrary is gone, I wonder what we can come up with next?
I discussed with Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request) last night on Discord on possible sets for it to use, such as with Adaptability, and I think the other cool thing about Necrozma-Ultra, is that it has just enough power to use Life Orb V-Create to KO Registeel, and even Zygarde-Complete with Clanging Scales (no Specs/Z-move or Draco Meteor required).
With a Lonely nature, you can keep SpA at 31 IVs, as the +Atk, -Def already pushed Photon Geyser to Physical. Still, the forgotten benefit of Photon Geyser is that even if you get Burnt, or affected by King’s Shield or Sap Strength, Adaptability and Life Orb keep Photon Geyser at near the same power as before (the only difference being the Nature for +Atk), and do if you hit something with equal defenses like +Spe nature Soundproof Arceus, you will deal around the same damage.
A Lonely nature is chosen because you are already reducing Defense from Clanging Scales, so if you haven’t used V-Create yet, as least you can survive a last resort Triage Oblivion Wing off of Modest Rayquaza-Mega before you hit it with Clanging Scales, whereas sparing its Defense stat is a lost cause.
252+ Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 367-432 (100.8 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 619-728 (97.3 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery without Steath Rocks
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 562-665 (88.3 - 104.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (25% chance without Steath Rocks)
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 320-377 (79.2 - 93.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 530-624 (105.1 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The final moveslot I wasn’t sure on what to select, as it can certainly walk break as shown above without any setup, but to secure KOs against maybe RegenVesters, or Fur Coat variants resistant to Photon Geyser and weak to V-Create, it may be helpful to add Shell Smash or some additional coverage move. Shell Smash can also be helpful bc you are not +Speed and even if you were, V-Create lowers your Speed now that Contrary is gone.
I’ll let you guys decide. I wouldn’t bother with Strength Sap bc with V-Create and Clanging Scales, you are already losing at least 1 of your 2 Defenses with half of your moveset.
For my Suspect Qualifications Team, I used the Shell Smash variant (no 4th coverage move), but oftentimes didn’t need it to KO Giratina or even some Zygarde-Complete (non-AV) with Clanging Scales (and before the ban Rayquaza-Mega).
It stuck out to me because it could mixed sweep and get STAB Photon which, like Deoxys-A, had matching SpA and Atk stats so that if Burned, King’s Shielded, and Strength Sapped, it could still use the +2 SpA from Shell Smash to KO.
Overall, a solid choice, and a good balance for my team.
That KO on Registeel really seals the deal for me: V-Create. I did switch natures for +Spe but with Ray banned, there is less reason to be +Spe
Thank you for reading and for the warm reception after my BH thread hiatus!
Mega-Mewtwo-X @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Storm Throw
- Frost Breath
- Bonemerang
- Strength Sap
Storm Throw has 60 Base power by default and always results in a critical hit. Combine this with Technician to give it an effective 135 BP STAB attack that ignores enemy defense buffs. Frost Breath does the same thing as a special attack and Bonemerang yields a whopping 150 BP across both hits and completes a perfect Fighting/Ice/Ground coverage. Meanwhile, Strength Sap can help increase MMX's longevity by weakening its opponent and healing back prior LO damage.
The same set can be run on MMY as is or on Deoxys-Attack with a Focus Sash if you prefer the higher 150 speed tier, though MMY's lesser attack and no fighting STAB is noticeable, and Deo-A won't hit as hard as MMX or MMY. Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam were options I considered for the last slot, but MMX shouldn't be staying in on Xerneas, Bonemerang 1HKOs Diancie, and Storm Throw actually hits mega audino harder. Moongeist Beam runs into the same problems, with Frost Breath hitting Giratina harder, and Bonemerang breaking focus sash on Mega Gengar. If you have no other options for Shedinja, you can run one of these moves, but I'd just leave it to another teammate.
MMX hits most of the entire meta for super effective damage, wiping out basically everything in 1-2 hits:
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Frost Breath vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete on a critical hit: 650-769 (102.2 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regigigas on a critical hit: 517-611 (121.9 - 144.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 374-442 (102.7 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel on a critical hit: 416-491 (114.2 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 338-400 (104.3 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+Def variants are OHKOd after SR damage)
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Frost Breath vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal on a critical hit: 351-413 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 322-384 (79.7 - 95%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal on a critical hit: 324-382 (80.1 - 94.5%) -- 50%
chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Frost Breath vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Groudon on a critical hit: 369-437 (91.3 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Frost Breath vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina on a critical hit: 278-328 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 234-277 (57 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
For what it's worth if you use sunsteel etc and not bonemarang then I think Sniper is the better ability, since it gives the same damage output on frost breath/storm throw and does more on the off chance you crit your coverage move (although I guess you can argue Shell Armor exists).
For what it's worth if you use sunsteel etc and not bonemarang then I think Sniper is the better ability, since it gives the same damage output on frost breath/storm throw and does more on the off chance you crit your coverage move (although I guess you can argue Shell Armor exists).
Blaziken-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Close Combat
- Copycat
- Destiny Bond
This set isn't nearly as thought through, so it probably has room for optimization. Mega Blaziken has the highest power V-create in the game outside of Pdon (but Pdon can only be from Red Orb after the ban). The premise is simple: use V-create, then abuse prankster copycat to spam it at +1 priority. Since this set can't get many 1HKOs, Sash + Destiny Bond can do it for you.
Obviously, this set can struggle with Dark types after you've used V-create since they're immune to prankster, but many (besides Yveltal) fall to a close combat.
Blaziken-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Close Combat
- Copycat
- Destiny Bond
This set isn't nearly as thought through, so it probably has room for optimization. Mega Blaziken has the highest power V-create in the game outside of Pdon (but Pdon can only be from Red Orb after the ban). The premise is simple: use V-create, then abuse prankster copycat to spam it at +1 priority. Since this set can't get many 1HKOs, Sash + Destiny Bond can do it for you.
Obviously, this set can struggle with Dark types after you've used V-create since they're immune to prankster, but many (besides Yveltal) fall to a close combat.
I have a quick question. What if you gave it Speed Boost as an ability?
This would also allow you to use Ice Hammer (over Copycat).
The advantage here is that since most Priority will still outspeed Prankster Copycat, (Fake Out, Extreme Speed, Triage), it seems like Copycat could end up being harder to use bc you won’t be able to outspeed other Priority moves (even if the foe used King’s Shield, it can change what you are triggering with Copycat), and you are also blocked by Dazzling.
Speed Boost could still take advantage of being first without reliance on a set-up move, otherwise I would suggest Unburden or Dazzling + Smash.
In either case, I think your set is a great option of reversing the side-effects of V-Create, and it has its own niche in outspeeding the foe’s recovery moves.
Speed Boost is just an alternative that can enable it to go first against Dazzling users, while negating the Speed drops.
