Player A: Chansey is an awesome wall.
Player B: No it's not.
(Player B proceeds to post a calc of a +6 Mega Mewtwo X CCing a Chansey)
Player B: See, can't even take that.
*Logic*
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Other Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
- Status
Player B: No it's not.
(Player B proceeds to post a calc of a +6 Mega Mewtwo X CCing a Chansey)
Player B: See, can't even take that.
*Logic*
I'm a bit tired of having to explain this set over and over again to various people, so I'm going to post it in a nice format that I can redirect people to when they ask. While it's not an underrated Pokemon, per se, many people are shocked to find that Deoxys-Defense can actually function WITHOUT HAZARDS. This may seem like a novel concept to some, but I ask that you hear the set out:
Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 16 SDef / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover
- Night Shade
Deoxys-Defense form is fairly unique in his combination of high defensive stats, taunt, and decent speed. This combination is what makes him able to beat nearly the entire meta in a 1 on 1 situation, given the opportunity. Additionally, due to the low number of specially offensive ghosts and dark types that are commonly seen in OU (Mixed Aegis, Gengar, and Greninja are the only three particularly prevalent ones, by my count), Deoxys-D can take on most of the special meta by himself, so long as he is paired with a partner who can take the aforementioned threats. Let's look at the set.
Taunt + Recover:
This first move combination is the crux of the set. Deoxys-D, by this spread hitting 300 speed, carries a very fast taunt. Thanks to this, he can often easily avoid status by outspeeding and taunting pokemon hoping to get off a toxic or other condition on him. Coupled with these moves are his high defenses and pressure. Thanks to pressure, he can easily beat pokemon like Gliscor 1v1 (taunt and then easily healing off earthquake damage) simply by pp stalling the only moves that they can use under the influence of taunt. This also makes him a nice switch in to things like close combat or superpower, taking a whole 25% of their available pp. This can give you the upper hand in a long and drawn out endgame, assuming you keep decent track of the pp remaining on your opponent's low pp moves.
Toxic:
Deoxys-D possesses the famous Taunt + Toxic combo alongside the bulk to use it. Toxic allows him to highhandedly beat pokemon whom he would otherwise not be able to touch, such as forcing Blissey and Chansey to switch out and easily defeating most walls through toxic + taunt blocking their recovery.
Night Shade:
Night Shade completes the set, allowing Deoxys-Defense to have damage output when it needs it, carrying a solid 100 damage. This is especially potent for two reasons: the first is that it can also be used to break down walls (like Skarmory, for instance, and other walls immune to toxic). Secondly, and more importantly, Deoxys-D has very few Pokemon who can deal enough damage to OHKO him. Most of these, such as Crawdaunt, Greninja, and Aegislash, lack recovery. Getting off a night shade on the switch allows Deoxys-Defense to quickly wear down these pokemon as they attempt to switch into it. Additionally, thanks to it's high speed and most of its check's low HP, if pokemon like Crawdaunt or Aegislash have prior damage, Deoxys can hit them on the switch with Night Shade and then finish them off with another one directly after (Deoxys can tank an Aegis shadow sneak fairly competently if pressed to).
While Deoxys-Defense form is primarily seen as a suicide lead/hazard setter, it's capable of much more than many battlers give it credit for. It's highly effective in the hands of a competent battler, and while slow, it's very effective at what it does. It fits into balanced and bulky offense teams while also giving dedicated heavy offense teams a solid way to threaten most defensive/bulky offense teams. Deoxys-Defense Form's non-hazard support set definitely deserves both more recognition than it receives and a consideration for a teamslot on any team.
Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 16 SDef / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover
- Night Shade
Deoxys-Defense form is fairly unique in his combination of high defensive stats, taunt, and decent speed. This combination is what makes him able to beat nearly the entire meta in a 1 on 1 situation, given the opportunity. Additionally, due to the low number of specially offensive ghosts and dark types that are commonly seen in OU (Mixed Aegis, Gengar, and Greninja are the only three particularly prevalent ones, by my count), Deoxys-D can take on most of the special meta by himself, so long as he is paired with a partner who can take the aforementioned threats. Let's look at the set.
Taunt + Recover:
This first move combination is the crux of the set. Deoxys-D, by this spread hitting 300 speed, carries a very fast taunt. Thanks to this, he can often easily avoid status by outspeeding and taunting pokemon hoping to get off a toxic or other condition on him. Coupled with these moves are his high defenses and pressure. Thanks to pressure, he can easily beat pokemon like Gliscor 1v1 (taunt and then easily healing off earthquake damage) simply by pp stalling the only moves that they can use under the influence of taunt. This also makes him a nice switch in to things like close combat or superpower, taking a whole 25% of their available pp. This can give you the upper hand in a long and drawn out endgame, assuming you keep decent track of the pp remaining on your opponent's low pp moves.
Toxic:
Deoxys-D possesses the famous Taunt + Toxic combo alongside the bulk to use it. Toxic allows him to highhandedly beat pokemon whom he would otherwise not be able to touch, such as forcing Blissey and Chansey to switch out and easily defeating most walls through toxic + taunt blocking their recovery.
Night Shade:
Night Shade completes the set, allowing Deoxys-Defense to have damage output when it needs it, carrying a solid 100 damage. This is especially potent for two reasons: the first is that it can also be used to break down walls (like Skarmory, for instance, and other walls immune to toxic). Secondly, and more importantly, Deoxys-D has very few Pokemon who can deal enough damage to OHKO him. Most of these, such as Crawdaunt, Greninja, and Aegislash, lack recovery. Getting off a night shade on the switch allows Deoxys-Defense to quickly wear down these pokemon as they attempt to switch into it. Additionally, thanks to it's high speed and most of its check's low HP, if pokemon like Crawdaunt or Aegislash have prior damage, Deoxys can hit them on the switch with Night Shade and then finish them off with another one directly after (Deoxys can tank an Aegis shadow sneak fairly competently if pressed to).
While Deoxys-Defense form is primarily seen as a suicide lead/hazard setter, it's capable of much more than many battlers give it credit for. It's highly effective in the hands of a competent battler, and while slow, it's very effective at what it does. It fits into balanced and bulky offense teams while also giving dedicated heavy offense teams a solid way to threaten most defensive/bulky offense teams. Deoxys-Defense Form's non-hazard support set definitely deserves both more recognition than it receives and a consideration for a teamslot on any team.
Well, while i have two sets I won't be posting due to people likely calling them 'shitty gimmicks', i have one that has worked wonders for me in OU.
Charizard Charizardite-X
Adamant NAture
252 atk/252 HP/4 Spdef
Dragon Claw
Fire Punch
Swords Dance
Defog
A lot of people forget that Charizard can have Defog, which is a good thing to me, because no one sees it coming. Skarmory, the most common lead i'm seeing atm, really hates getting set up on while it sends out hazards, and even without set up, Fire Punch 2HKO's Skarmory, and then, Charizard can Defog aferwords, wiping away all hazards. Other leads, like Deo-S/Deo-D and SMeargle are better than Skarmory against this because of taunt, even tho Dragon Claw can likely 2HKO Deo-S, and if Zard can switch in after somethings been put to sleep, it can defog away all of those hazards. Galvantula really hates this thing because not oly can it hit SEly with STAB, SE, TOugh Claws boosted Fire Punch, it can also Defog away Sticky Web, which makes it a very viable, and decent lead.
Of course, nothing comes withou it's drawbacks, and this things lack of speed investment, or Ddance make it easily revenge killable, and even without revenge killing, it's outsped by a lot, with an uninvested 100base speed stat (I think).
I used to run Draon Tail on this to phas eout hazard setters, then defog afterwords, but the negative priority of Dtail was a real drawback. Replacing SD with Hone claws and using DRush is possible, but the +2 is more prefferred. Also, you can alternately run Roost over SD, or Ddance, as both are great moves on zard X. Fire Punch can be replace by Flare Blitz, but the recoil is unwanted, as it wears Zard X down much quicker, and makes it vulnerable to Priority, and the recoil isn't really wanted against something like Blissey or Chansey.
Well, there it was. My lead/Defogger Megazard X. Alternately, MEgazard Y can be run with Defog to draw out Rocks, Defog away the rocks, and drop whoever set them up with Fire Blast (hopefully) :)
Charizard Charizardite-X
Adamant NAture
252 atk/252 HP/4 Spdef
Dragon Claw
Fire Punch
Swords Dance
Defog
A lot of people forget that Charizard can have Defog, which is a good thing to me, because no one sees it coming. Skarmory, the most common lead i'm seeing atm, really hates getting set up on while it sends out hazards, and even without set up, Fire Punch 2HKO's Skarmory, and then, Charizard can Defog aferwords, wiping away all hazards. Other leads, like Deo-S/Deo-D and SMeargle are better than Skarmory against this because of taunt, even tho Dragon Claw can likely 2HKO Deo-S, and if Zard can switch in after somethings been put to sleep, it can defog away all of those hazards. Galvantula really hates this thing because not oly can it hit SEly with STAB, SE, TOugh Claws boosted Fire Punch, it can also Defog away Sticky Web, which makes it a very viable, and decent lead.
Of course, nothing comes withou it's drawbacks, and this things lack of speed investment, or Ddance make it easily revenge killable, and even without revenge killing, it's outsped by a lot, with an uninvested 100base speed stat (I think).
I used to run Draon Tail on this to phas eout hazard setters, then defog afterwords, but the negative priority of Dtail was a real drawback. Replacing SD with Hone claws and using DRush is possible, but the +2 is more prefferred. Also, you can alternately run Roost over SD, or Ddance, as both are great moves on zard X. Fire Punch can be replace by Flare Blitz, but the recoil is unwanted, as it wears Zard X down much quicker, and makes it vulnerable to Priority, and the recoil isn't really wanted against something like Blissey or Chansey.
Well, there it was. My lead/Defogger Megazard X. Alternately, MEgazard Y can be run with Defog to draw out Rocks, Defog away the rocks, and drop whoever set them up with Fire Blast (hopefully) :)
Gigalith
I guess there are two sets I'm gonna post here. The first is an Assault Vest variant.
Gigalith
w/Assault Vest
a/Sturdy
n/Sassy
EV: 248Hp, 216Def, 40SpD
IV: 0Spe
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
-Superpower
-Heavy Slam/Iron Head
This variant is very bulky and has very good coverage despite its harsh move pool.
Gigalith
w/Life Orb
a/Sand Force
n/Brave
EV: 248Hp, 252Atk, 8Def
IV: 0Spe
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Superpower/Iron Head
-Sandstorm/Iron Head
This set comes off of Gigalith's monstrous attack stat, and, under trick room and sand storm, can devastate its opponents with base 135+Atk, and a stab 100 power move with life orb and Sand force boost...
I guess there are two sets I'm gonna post here. The first is an Assault Vest variant.
Gigalith
w/Assault Vest
a/Sturdy
n/Sassy
EV: 248Hp, 216Def, 40SpD
IV: 0Spe
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
-Superpower
-Heavy Slam/Iron Head
This variant is very bulky and has very good coverage despite its harsh move pool.
Gigalith
w/Life Orb
a/Sand Force
n/Brave
EV: 248Hp, 252Atk, 8Def
IV: 0Spe
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Superpower/Iron Head
-Sandstorm/Iron Head
This set comes off of Gigalith's monstrous attack stat, and, under trick room and sand storm, can devastate its opponents with base 135+Atk, and a stab 100 power move with life orb and Sand force boost...
How's this OU Mr. Mime set?
Mr. Mime @ Assault Vest
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Icy Wind
- Psyshock
- Charge Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
The main part of this set is Technician, which turns Charge Beam into a boosting TBolt, Icy Wind into slowing Ice Beam, and HP fire into Flamethrower. AV lets him take special hits pretty well, while he has good physically defensive typing (dragon immunity, 4x resist to fighting). He has some stuff going for him but his health is still super low and needs wish support.
Mr. Mime @ Assault Vest
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Icy Wind
- Psyshock
- Charge Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
The main part of this set is Technician, which turns Charge Beam into a boosting TBolt, Icy Wind into slowing Ice Beam, and HP fire into Flamethrower. AV lets him take special hits pretty well, while he has good physically defensive typing (dragon immunity, 4x resist to fighting). He has some stuff going for him but his health is still super low and needs wish support.
In all honesty this set looks terrible because almost every moderately powerful physical attacker will be able to OHKO Mr. Mime or do upwards of 80% at worst, and Mr. Mime will be too weak to threaten anything until it has obtained a boost or two, and without any speed investment it will not be able to sweep teams any time soon. Mr. Mime is a pretty poor Pokémon in OU in general - unless you plan on using it in a Baton Pass team, Gardevoir outclasses it completely as a Psychic/Fairy type.
You just named Mr. Mime's problem is all. Yes, it is completely useless against any strong physical attacker. All Mr. Mime sets aside from one with proper support and screen will. Rather than just saying the standard, "This fairy isn't as good as Gardevoir or Sylveon so no" how about you find a reasoning behind the pokemon itself? Physical attacks are his problem, but so is Blissey's. You don't see Blissey being called useless, now do you?
Its a viable set for sure, but wouldn't giving him HP Fairy do better for use of the STAB bonus? Fire is nice, but Fairy type attacks would be useful in a lot of cases.
Hidden Power fairy is unobtainable.
And now I know. TBH I don't run HP almost ever, its rather situational for me, and the power loss this gen just kinda set me off of it.
Shinobi_Warrior : I've actually used Gigalith and it is actually a fairly good PKMN in the sand. It has good defensive stats and in addition to that, its Stone Edge hits harder than Choice Band Tyranitar's if you use the LO or CB variant. The AV set is pretty strong too and has powerful coverage in EQ to complete EdgeQuake. Sadly, it's is useless / dead weight outside of Sand which is why I don't use it often.
I'ma post probably one of the most underrated sets in the current metagame; behold as you witness, LANDSHARK 2.0!!!
Garchomp @ Garchompite | Sand Force via Rough Skin
Naive | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe | Max IVs
Outrage | Earthquake | Fire Blast | Swords Dance
Seriously, this thing is on my most powerful team and it defines it. If you thought ChainChomp was a master at luring in everything and 2HKOing things with Fire Blast, meet this thing: Mega Landshark. Yup, it doesn't only 2HKO things, it OHKOes them. By sharpening it blades as sharp as glass, it can now completely destroy Ferrothorn, Forretress, Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Mega Pinsir, and now it can force Mega Charizard Y out and it now basically gets a +1 SpA! Now, face the wrath of the two STAB moves, Outrage and Earthquake. The former makes this evolved specimen of landsharks a monster by OHKOing almost the whole unresisted tier and the latter hits even harder when paired with the might Hippowdon or Tyranitar. Combine this thing with Swords Dance and it's unstoppable! One may say: "oh no! I can't mega evolve to OHKO something because my speed is reduced!". No worries, because Garchomp's base Speed stays 102 on the turn it mega evolves, but it is 311 after. 311 isn't a bad speed anyways, or is it? Garchomp's bulk lets it survive a wicked array of attacks which would force someone to think that they should switch out.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 208-246 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 106-126 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 16.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 280-330 (78.2 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 333-395 (93.2 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Choice Scarf Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 292-344 (81.7 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 220-259 (61.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 320-378 (89.6 - 105.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
This much SWAG with the power of the true epic donkey shark, you will laugh so hard as your opponent switches into a +2 Earthquake in the Sand thinking they could survive because they "resisted the hit". Teammates? A true landshark doesn't swim in groups, but if you really want to make it a beast, there are two things you need: Sticky Web and/or sand support. The sand is what makes it able to sweep without set-up as it makes its Earthquake have 200 Base Power after STAB which strikes fear into everything, even the Azumarill and Sylveon that want to come into your Outrage thinking they can survive an EQ next turn. The sheer force of this thing strikes fear into everyone's hearts piercing them with their atrium and ventricles inside out. Look at these calculations at +2 and one will see why this thing is king kong!
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon in Sand: 487-574 (123.6 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Doom
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sand: 333-393 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Muahaha
+2 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 310-366 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO Destroy
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur in Sand: 322-381 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock Destruction!
The true ChainChomp, the destroyer of stall, the survivor even in the blizzards, the sharpest and most epic looking creature; face the mighty flames of the one who are yet to face its wrath in OSL, one must conquer the the beast to master...the true shark of legend!!!
Spoiler: Combining Mega Swords Dance Lure Garchomp with LO Sharpedo strengthens Mega Garchomp's power to extraordinary levels as Sharpedo removes its counters with Destiny Bond...
I'ma post probably one of the most underrated sets in the current metagame; behold as you witness, LANDSHARK 2.0!!!
Garchomp @ Garchompite | Sand Force via Rough Skin
Naive | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe | Max IVs
Outrage | Earthquake | Fire Blast | Swords Dance
Seriously, this thing is on my most powerful team and it defines it. If you thought ChainChomp was a master at luring in everything and 2HKOing things with Fire Blast, meet this thing: Mega Landshark. Yup, it doesn't only 2HKO things, it OHKOes them. By sharpening it blades as sharp as glass, it can now completely destroy Ferrothorn, Forretress, Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Mega Pinsir, and now it can force Mega Charizard Y out and it now basically gets a +1 SpA! Now, face the wrath of the two STAB moves, Outrage and Earthquake. The former makes this evolved specimen of landsharks a monster by OHKOing almost the whole unresisted tier and the latter hits even harder when paired with the might Hippowdon or Tyranitar. Combine this thing with Swords Dance and it's unstoppable! One may say: "oh no! I can't mega evolve to OHKO something because my speed is reduced!". No worries, because Garchomp's base Speed stays 102 on the turn it mega evolves, but it is 311 after. 311 isn't a bad speed anyways, or is it? Garchomp's bulk lets it survive a wicked array of attacks which would force someone to think that they should switch out.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 208-246 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 106-126 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 16.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 280-330 (78.2 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 333-395 (93.2 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Choice Scarf Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 292-344 (81.7 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 220-259 (61.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 320-378 (89.6 - 105.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
This much SWAG with the power of the true epic donkey shark, you will laugh so hard as your opponent switches into a +2 Earthquake in the Sand thinking they could survive because they "resisted the hit". Teammates? A true landshark doesn't swim in groups, but if you really want to make it a beast, there are two things you need: Sticky Web and/or sand support. The sand is what makes it able to sweep without set-up as it makes its Earthquake have 200 Base Power after STAB which strikes fear into everything, even the Azumarill and Sylveon that want to come into your Outrage thinking they can survive an EQ next turn. The sheer force of this thing strikes fear into everyone's hearts piercing them with their atrium and ventricles inside out. Look at these calculations at +2 and one will see why this thing is king kong!
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon in Sand: 487-574 (123.6 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Doom
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sand: 333-393 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Muahaha
+2 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 310-366 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO Destroy
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur in Sand: 322-381 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock Destruction!
The true ChainChomp, the destroyer of stall, the survivor even in the blizzards, the sharpest and most epic looking creature; face the mighty flames of the one who are yet to face its wrath in OSL, one must conquer the the beast to master...the true shark of legend!!!
Spoiler: Combining Mega Swords Dance Lure Garchomp with LO Sharpedo strengthens Mega Garchomp's power to extraordinary levels as Sharpedo removes its counters with Destiny Bond...
Ogami I wouldn't recommend using Scarf Cloyster. That SR weakness is really going to limit its ability kill in a longer match. If you really need a Scarfer with a strong Ice-STAB, use Mamoswine. It is a much better cleaner against offensive teams because it has an immunity to Thundurus-I's priority Thunder Wave. Also, it has a secondary Ground STAB which let's you revenge kill DD TTar, Terrakion, Scarf Heatran, and Greninja.
Vertex Life Orb Garchomp's Outrage has more damage output than Mega-Garchomp's Outrage, so in terms of power output Life Orb Garchomp isn't completely beat. I think what you really have to consider is that is it really worth dropping your speed and your mega slot in order to get 2HKO's that Garchomp can similarly get with a bit more residual damage outside of Sandstorm. Mega-Garchomp necessitates Sandstorm in order to have the power output of its EQ exceed Life Orb Garchomp's EQ; without sand Mega-Garchomp's EQ is weaker. SD Garchompite has to choose between speed vs power, while Life Orb does not give up speed, only compromises a bit on power, and does not need sandstorm in play to get certain 2HKO's that Mega-Chomp does.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 331-390 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
__________________________________________
Anyway here is a set that isn't pushing the bounds of creativity, but I think doesn't see enough usage as it should:
Scizor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Knock Off / Pursuit
- Superpower / Pursuit
Assault Vest Scizor is very similar to its brother Defog Mega-Scizor as a pivot. This set focuses in on special bulk and the non-use of a Mega-Stone slot, while Defog Mega-Scizor focuses on physical defense and removal of hazards with Defog. Scizor puts together some of the best utility options that are compatible with Assault Vest: powerful priority, slow STAB U-turn (switch initiative / safe switchins), Knock Off, and a powered up Pursuit. Together these options make for a good pivot for offensive teams. I wouldn't recommend this set on a more defensive team, since Scizor really enjoys bringing in powerful hard hitters with U-turn and doesn't have reliable recovery with Assault Vest. Specially defensive Scizor has been made a lot better because Latios / Latias are largely running Defog over Hidden Power Fire. The EV's are designed to let you never be 2HKO'ed by neutral nature Landorus-I's Earth Power. Interestingly, the EV spread hits the same attack as uninvested, neutral nature Mega-Scizor.
Threats Assault Vest Scizor can counter include: Kyurem-B, Landorus-I, Gengar, Greninja, Latios / Latias, Clefable
Threats Assault Vest Scizor can check: Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Terrakion, Dragonite
Lesser threats: Chansey, Sylveon, offensive Psychic-types (Starmie, Mega-Gardevoir, Alakazam)
Vertex Life Orb Garchomp's Outrage has more damage output than Mega-Garchomp's Outrage, so in terms of power output Life Orb Garchomp isn't completely beat. I think what you really have to consider is that is it really worth dropping your speed and your mega slot in order to get 2HKO's that Garchomp can similarly get with a bit more residual damage outside of Sandstorm. Mega-Garchomp necessitates Sandstorm in order to have the power output of its EQ exceed Life Orb Garchomp's EQ; without sand Mega-Garchomp's EQ is weaker. SD Garchompite has to choose between speed vs power, while Life Orb does not give up speed, only compromises a bit on power, and does not need sandstorm in play to get certain 2HKO's that Mega-Chomp does.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 331-390 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
__________________________________________
Anyway here is a set that isn't pushing the bounds of creativity, but I think doesn't see enough usage as it should:
Scizor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Knock Off / Pursuit
- Superpower / Pursuit
Assault Vest Scizor is very similar to its brother Defog Mega-Scizor as a pivot. This set focuses in on special bulk and the non-use of a Mega-Stone slot, while Defog Mega-Scizor focuses on physical defense and removal of hazards with Defog. Scizor puts together some of the best utility options that are compatible with Assault Vest: powerful priority, slow STAB U-turn (switch initiative / safe switchins), Knock Off, and a powered up Pursuit. Together these options make for a good pivot for offensive teams. I wouldn't recommend this set on a more defensive team, since Scizor really enjoys bringing in powerful hard hitters with U-turn and doesn't have reliable recovery with Assault Vest. Specially defensive Scizor has been made a lot better because Latios / Latias are largely running Defog over Hidden Power Fire. The EV's are designed to let you never be 2HKO'ed by neutral nature Landorus-I's Earth Power. Interestingly, the EV spread hits the same attack as uninvested, neutral nature Mega-Scizor.
Threats Assault Vest Scizor can counter include: Kyurem-B, Landorus-I, Gengar, Greninja, Latios / Latias, Clefable
Threats Assault Vest Scizor can check: Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Terrakion, Dragonite
Lesser threats: Chansey, Sylveon, offensive Psychic-types (Starmie, Mega-Gardevoir, Alakazam)
Doughboy I can't really argue with any of your points on scarf cloyster vs mamo as you're pretty much dead on. The one thing I'd have to say in cloyster's defense, is just how surprising the scarf set is on him. Normally I don't let surprise value effect my judgement of a mon this much, but no one sees the set coming. Scarf cloyster gets a lot of kills that people know to run from when they see mamoswine. Many of the things scarf mamo revenges, he can similarly threaten with ice shard, which makes him much more predictable and less likely to get the kills he wants. The SR weakness is tough, but it's manageable, just like it is for talonflame or volcarona or charY. While I'm not trying to make this a cloyster vs mamo thing, I think you may be brushing off the usefulness of cloyster's bulk. Even uninvested, this allows him to switch into more physically inclined pokemon, even with rocks up, then any mamo could dream of. Oh and there's skill link, which lets cloyster deal with sub users and sashers. Not many scarfers can switch in on a kyurem-B as it subs up and still come out on top.
All that being said, you're probably right that scarf mamo is better for the fast ice stab department, if not only for the slight boost in speed tier and thunder wave immunity. I just don't think cloyster should be written off.
All that being said, you're probably right that scarf mamo is better for the fast ice stab department, if not only for the slight boost in speed tier and thunder wave immunity. I just don't think cloyster should be written off.
Doughboy
The damage output is barely offsetting; in short, all the OHKOes Garchomp receives like on Gliscor after Rock is also achieved by Mega Garchomp and it also completely wrecks Smooth Rock Sand offense with Excadrill. The difference in bulk is very noticeable. Mega garchomp can live a nice shards from Mamoswine and sometimes even LO variants. Being able to survive Dazzling Gleam coverage. It can even take a bullet punch and brave bird and still survive which would normally end normal garchomp. I don't get what you are focused but Fire blast is difference between them and let's them completely decimate stall teams. The speed drop is rarely an issue, most things faster than it do not have the brute force to break past it's defenses and if they do, Garchomp should stay in base form to remove them then mega evolve to break past mons normal garchomp can't like Ferrothorn. Seriously, you could make that argument that you should use LO Alakazam over Mega Alakazam and LO Latios over the soon to come mega Latios, but why do they exist? They play differently and this is no different case.
As a side note, I like the Av set; seems like it can retaliate a lot but I don't think the loss of Roost is worth it.
The damage output is barely offsetting; in short, all the OHKOes Garchomp receives like on Gliscor after Rock is also achieved by Mega Garchomp and it also completely wrecks Smooth Rock Sand offense with Excadrill. The difference in bulk is very noticeable. Mega garchomp can live a nice shards from Mamoswine and sometimes even LO variants. Being able to survive Dazzling Gleam coverage. It can even take a bullet punch and brave bird and still survive which would normally end normal garchomp. I don't get what you are focused but Fire blast is difference between them and let's them completely decimate stall teams. The speed drop is rarely an issue, most things faster than it do not have the brute force to break past it's defenses and if they do, Garchomp should stay in base form to remove them then mega evolve to break past mons normal garchomp can't like Ferrothorn. Seriously, you could make that argument that you should use LO Alakazam over Mega Alakazam and LO Latios over the soon to come mega Latios, but why do they exist? They play differently and this is no different case.
As a side note, I like the Av set; seems like it can retaliate a lot but I don't think the loss of Roost is worth it.
I've been running this Heracross set with great results. It is a dangerous late game sweeper and can even sweep whole teams without a counter as a lead. Here's the set.
Heracross-moxie @ leftovers
252atk/252spe/4def.
Substitute
Megahorn
Focus Punch
Rock Slide
Yep, focus punch. It ohkoes anything that doesn't resist it. Rock slide hits flying types on the switch, but if they are faster you'll have to switch to avoid being revenge killed. Moxie boosts your attack one stage for each kill, which eliminates the need for a boosting move. So there you go. Sub on a status move, hazards, etc and go to town.
Heracross-moxie @ leftovers
252atk/252spe/4def.
Substitute
Megahorn
Focus Punch
Rock Slide
Yep, focus punch. It ohkoes anything that doesn't resist it. Rock slide hits flying types on the switch, but if they are faster you'll have to switch to avoid being revenge killed. Moxie boosts your attack one stage for each kill, which eliminates the need for a boosting move. So there you go. Sub on a status move, hazards, etc and go to town.
Why Rock Slide and not Stone Edge?
Because rock slide ohkoes most bird switch-ins and is 15% more accurate.
im glad u posted such an informative replay including 17 turns of swagplay
I really like that set cullen_poison. I've seen people mention a subpunch mega-hera but I think normal hera does a much better job of it with moxie and leftovers. It would definitely need help beating skarm, and I could see rotom being annoying and breaking your sub with volt switch to the appropriate counter. You can win through that with prediction and hazards, but still something to think about.
Oh and gliscor / lando look like big problems for the set. Some sort of lure would be nice for them. maybe hp ice aegislash?
R3DX: the problem with your strategy is that it's very haxy and without the burn or confusion going your way, or you know the venusaur pilot actually using synthesis, you end up dealing only about half damage for a mutilated tentacruel. And that wasn't the world's most talented Mega-Saur pilot. Oh and earthquake is pretty common too. Overall, there are definitely better pokemon to fight Mega-Saur. I'm going to leave any swagplay comments out of this, it's just too easy.
I did laugh when I read your post though Habiki, too good. And that dog battle replay of yours made me laugh even more. KS mindgames for days.
Speaking of KS, this is a set I've been having fun with. Not sure if it's been posted, so I'm sorry if it has. I try to keep up with this thread but you know, life.
Aegislash@Leftovers
Ability:Stance Change
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SpA / 4 Spe Modest
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Shadow Ball
-King's Shield
This guy is meant to give a lot of its common defensive switch ins headaches with toxic. This guy is not as explosive of a wallbreaker like CRUMBLER is, so this set isn't really suited for HO or anything leaning heavily on the offensive spectrum. You'll need better Bisharp and Tyranitar countermeasures than usual, and sometimes you'll really miss having a second attack. I could see substitute getting a slash for either sacred sword or shadow sneak, but it can be so deadly when combined with toxic and KS. This aegislash can be very rewarding with how much play KS+Sub gives you and the reactionary way people often play against aegislash. If you're into bulky balance like I am, this would be a fun set to try out.
Oh and gliscor / lando look like big problems for the set. Some sort of lure would be nice for them. maybe hp ice aegislash?
R3DX: the problem with your strategy is that it's very haxy and without the burn or confusion going your way, or you know the venusaur pilot actually using synthesis, you end up dealing only about half damage for a mutilated tentacruel. And that wasn't the world's most talented Mega-Saur pilot. Oh and earthquake is pretty common too. Overall, there are definitely better pokemon to fight Mega-Saur. I'm going to leave any swagplay comments out of this, it's just too easy.
I did laugh when I read your post though Habiki, too good. And that dog battle replay of yours made me laugh even more. KS mindgames for days.
Speaking of KS, this is a set I've been having fun with. Not sure if it's been posted, so I'm sorry if it has. I try to keep up with this thread but you know, life.
Aegislash@Leftovers
Ability:Stance Change
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SpA / 4 Spe Modest
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Shadow Ball
-King's Shield
This guy is meant to give a lot of its common defensive switch ins headaches with toxic. This guy is not as explosive of a wallbreaker like CRUMBLER is, so this set isn't really suited for HO or anything leaning heavily on the offensive spectrum. You'll need better Bisharp and Tyranitar countermeasures than usual, and sometimes you'll really miss having a second attack. I could see substitute getting a slash for either sacred sword or shadow sneak, but it can be so deadly when combined with toxic and KS. This aegislash can be very rewarding with how much play KS+Sub gives you and the reactionary way people often play against aegislash. If you're into bulky balance like I am, this would be a fun set to try out.
Screenasaur, born out of hatred for ability-reliant metagame staples like Manaphy that give my stall team hell.
The Blubbersack (Venusaur) (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef Calm
- Synthesis
- Light Screen
- Worry Seed / Leech Seed / Toxic
- Giga Drain / Toxic
No, I'm not joking. Those two moveslots really are dedicated to Light Screen and Worry Seed. Let me explain myself. With a Light Screen up, MV is capable of walling a great deal more threats than it used to be able to, such as Extrasensory Greninja. I also pass it to other team members to help them deal with special hits, too.
Worry Seed is there to give my team insurance against annoying things that won't fall to status or repeated weak hits. I use it most for preventing the use of Rest, nullifying the power boosts of Guts and Huge Power, and removing the positive effects of Magic Guard and Poison Heal. The Toxic damage counter actually continues increasing when Magic Guard or Poison Heal is removed, and many people don't realize this- it's hilarious to net a status OHKO on something like Clefable with a Worry Seed from the almighty Screeasaur.
It also enables me to somewhat-reliably take on Reuniclus, whom I hate with a burning passion. I can survive a Psychic by using Light Screen, or, if my walls are still intact, nullify its Magic Guard with Toxic. It's as if Screenasaur is a box of tools, just ready to be MacGyvered into any stituation.
The Blubbersack (Venusaur) (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef Calm
- Synthesis
- Light Screen
- Worry Seed / Leech Seed / Toxic
- Giga Drain / Toxic
No, I'm not joking. Those two moveslots really are dedicated to Light Screen and Worry Seed. Let me explain myself. With a Light Screen up, MV is capable of walling a great deal more threats than it used to be able to, such as Extrasensory Greninja. I also pass it to other team members to help them deal with special hits, too.
Worry Seed is there to give my team insurance against annoying things that won't fall to status or repeated weak hits. I use it most for preventing the use of Rest, nullifying the power boosts of Guts and Huge Power, and removing the positive effects of Magic Guard and Poison Heal. The Toxic damage counter actually continues increasing when Magic Guard or Poison Heal is removed, and many people don't realize this- it's hilarious to net a status OHKO on something like Clefable with a Worry Seed from the almighty Screeasaur.
It also enables me to somewhat-reliably take on Reuniclus, whom I hate with a burning passion. I can survive a Psychic by using Light Screen, or, if my walls are still intact, nullify its Magic Guard with Toxic. It's as if Screenasaur is a box of tools, just ready to be MacGyvered into any stituation.
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Umm Chesnaught can't touch venusaur, and some venusaurs have hp fire.
Chesnaught can set up Spikes and very few run HP Fire, and it's still a better counter than Tenta since they often run EQ.
As for a set,
Bisharp (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
SR Bisharp is pretty similar to Froslass. It can set up hazards and block Defog and Froslass blocks RS. But a big difference between the two is the fact that Bisharp offers a lot more utility and power. It can come in later and revenge kill with Sucker Punch or deal some good damage with KF. Sometimes you don't even have to waste the sash and it can come in later and get a kill or 2.
As for a set,
Bisharp (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
SR Bisharp is pretty similar to Froslass. It can set up hazards and block Defog and Froslass blocks RS. But a big difference between the two is the fact that Bisharp offers a lot more utility and power. It can come in later and revenge kill with Sucker Punch or deal some good damage with KF. Sometimes you don't even have to waste the sash and it can come in later and get a kill or 2.
Sanic (Aegislash) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 SAtk / 152 Spd / 48 HP / 56 Atk
Rash Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Autotomize
- Destiny Bond
I posted this awhile ago in the lures thread but I feel like posting it in here.
Aegislash is pretty versatile, and has tons and tons of sets. But I can say that this one, while possibly not the most effective of all of them, is certainly the most dickish.
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 SAtk / 152 Spd / 48 HP / 56 Atk
Rash Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Autotomize
- Destiny Bond
I posted this awhile ago in the lures thread but I feel like posting it in here.
Aegislash is pretty versatile, and has tons and tons of sets. But I can say that this one, while possibly not the most effective of all of them, is certainly the most dickish.
How is Chesnaught a counter to Mega Venusaur if all it can do is set up spikes on it? Do you even know what a counter is?
Anyway, that Tentacruel set that TheR3DX posted is in no way a counter to Mega Venusaur as it relies on that Mega Venusaur runs Leech seed and/or Giga drain so it can outstall itself. Also, 252+ Atk Mega Venusaur Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 192-226 (52.7 - 62%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery= Not even a check as it cannot kill it. Btw skilled swagplay
I was wondering that to... why are we discussing Tentacruel as a counter to Mega-Venu. Get a Psychic type that is immune to Leech Seed and resists Giga Drain. A SpD Celebi will probably do fine.
Only two things it can really do...
4 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 168-198 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery... may be a problem.
4 SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 76-90 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Celebi can...
4 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO. Being honest of the problem. I don't really see much running Sludge bomb as the prefer not to get walled by Steel types.(Maybe I am mistaken!)
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