Cresselia Push

Astamatitos

Astamatitos

is a Tiering Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Cresselia Push​

First Glance:
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As you can see for yourself this not your ordinary offensive or defensive team. Actually, if you don't bother reading what's located below, you'll think this is just another team of 6 random Pokemon pulled together.

To begin with, this team utilises Lunar Dance Cresselia, taking advantage of Cresselias's signature move. Allow me to elaborate on how i decided to build this team..

What inspired me to build this team was the following thought process:
''Not many teams can counter Sword Dance Lucario and Dragon Dance Tyranitar more than twice.''
''What if there was a way to use each of this Pokemon twice in a team?''
''Wait?! Lunar Dance Cresselia anyone?!?!?''
lol.

New Additions/Comments in Bold.
Without further ado:

In Depth:

jirachi.png

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Trick
- Thunderpunch / U-turn
- Stealth Rock​

Scarf Jirachi is overally a really solid lead. It stops a huge array of leads, ranging from the suicide leads such as Azelf and Aerodactyl, to the more bulky ones, Swampert, Hippowdon and Bronzong.

Gameplay: Jirachi makes sure i get Stealth Rock down no matter what, while it always steals the advantage early off my opponent thanks to Trick. Iron Head can be deadly should i be playing on a lucky day. :>

I have changed U-turn to Thunderpunch as this gives me one more option to Revenge kill Gyarados if it has already managed to get a Dragon Dance.

cresselia.png

Cresselia (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 220 HP/124 Def/164 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Lunar Dance
- Psychic
- Reflect
- Light Screen​

Introducing Lunar Dance Cresselia.
Use only if you acquire surplus amounts of bawls!

This Pokemon is what keeps my team in line, which you will most probably witness as well after reading through the whole team.

Gameplay: The set is self explanatory and simple to use. Keep Cresselia in till late game, where either Lucario or Tyranitar are heavily damaged (they should of have taken down most Physical walls with them by then), bring this in, set up the two screens, and Lunar Dance for the sweep.
During mid game Cresselia can prove itself useful by serving my walling needs against Ground/Fighting attacks and generaly attacks that can't hit it for Super Effective damage.

lucario.png

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extremespeed​

Adamant Lucario still remains the number one physical threat. Period.
Defeats most stall teams with ease.

Gameplay: Lucario will attempt to sweep two times. The first time is when i want to crack my opponent's defenses. I will start unleashing attacks left and right, while snatching any opportunities to Sword Dance. I won't hesitate to let Lucario absorb any status effects such as Thunder Wave from Celebi as this will allow me to weaken said Pokemon next time Lucario attempts a sweep thanks to Lunar Dance.

tyranitar.png

Tyranitar (M) @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge​

Tyranitar, unexpectedly, is my MVP every match.
Nothing can safely counter Tyranitar.

Gameplay: Tyranitar works in a similar manner as Lucario. Babiri Berry is there because the first time i will attempt a sweep i'll need Tyranitar to take out any CB Scizors that attempt to Bullet Punch. Am sure all of you by now realised that Scizor is every DDtar's archnemesis, in the current metagame. Should this first step of taking out Scizor be achieved, Lunar Dance Cresselia will be waiting to heal Tyranitar giving it another chance to shine. This time with the exception of not having to face any Tyranitar counters assuming they have been weakened/taken out during the first DDTar attack.

suicune.png

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/164 Spd/92 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest​

I needed something to shrug off Fire Attacks launched at Jirachi and Lucario. I also needed something which would be Elementaly oriented, while also being able to beat Blissey. Suicune instantly sprung to mind.

Gameplay: Suicune is usually my early switch in to the likes of Heatran and Infernape. Modest is there because i need to hit Celebi and Zapdos as hard as possible, while still maintaining enough Speed to outspeed both of their bulky variants.

Definetely a Pokemon to look out for after it manages to get 2-3 Calm Minds under its belt.

gliscor.png

Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Ice Fang
- Roost​

Sword Dance on a bulky Gliscor is really deadly since not many Attacks pack the punch to hit it for enough damage.

Gameplay: In Gliscor i've found the best Fighting/Bug Defense someone can acquire in this game as well as a dedicated, hidden sweeper which benefits from what my other Physical hitters are trying to weaken. By the time i get this into the game i'll have probably weakened my opponent's bulky waters with Lucario and Tyranitar enough so that Gliscor picks up the trash at the very end.

Hyper Cutter accompanied with Stone Edge provide me with extra Gyarados support as they allow me to KO as it switches in on Sword Dance.

If Tyranitar/Lucario didn't manage to finish the game earlier, then this thing will.

Closing Words:

I have stayed undefeated using this team for 15+ games so far, giving me a rank boost from 1615 to 1645, if that says anything.

Besides that though, i am constantly scratching my head in order to think of a safe, quaranteed way to stop Gyarados which is pretty much what threatens this team the most.
Most of the times i was forced to work around it resorting to Stealth Rock, Sand Storm, Reflect and Lucario's Extremespeed. I'll need your opinion here.. =[

Art Resources Used:
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Threat List

Tyranitar: Tyranitar has never gave me trouble. Gliscor usually covers it, taking CB Crunch like a man. If it has managed to get a Dragon Dance up while Gliscor is weakened i might as well go to Jirachi and Iron Head/U-turn according to how much HP it has left.

Gyarados: :*( I'll need your opinion here, if you have missed mentioning Gyarados in first post then i pretty much need to find a more stable way to handle Gyarados besides playing it around it.

Infernape: Cresselia and Suicune can be used to take most hits. A Nasty Plot Infernape could be a huge problem, although i haven't faced one yet.

Azelf: Lead Azelfs are never trouble. Azelf can't really do anything to harm my team besides Exploding.

Electivire: Cresselia can get in on pretty much anything it can do, Reflect up, and laugh in front of it as it merely does any damage.

Heracross: Gliscor shrugs off any attack it can launch.

Salamence: 2 Steels, 2 Physical Walls and Suicune mean that Salamence won't really have an easy time on me. If i let it pick up lot of DDs under its belt, then i pretty much deserve to lose.

Lucario: Gliscor can stand a +2 Ice Punch, although most Lucarios have come to their senses and use Crunch/Stone Edge again.

Starmie: Starmie gives Cresselia one more opportunity to get in and setup Screens. Which ultimately nullifies any potential Starmie has/had to hurt my team.

Machamp: Cresselia and Gliscor cover this.

Zapdos: Tyranitar, Light Screen support, Gliscor partially, Tricking it.

Suicune: Giving it a Trick or forcing it to Sleep in order for Lucario to setup and cause it to flee. The offensive variants aren't as deadly against this team as Light Screen will cause it to lose precious health to Sand storm, hindering it's ability to sweep.

Breloom: Can't switch in on anything, and even then, i have it covered with Cresselia and Gliscor.

Metagross: Gliscor and Suicune can take its Attacks with ease, i will most probably go to Jirachi if i sense an Explosion coming.

Heatran: Suicune.

Jirachi: Tyranitar for special oriented variants, Gliscor for the Physical ones.

Mamoswine: Mamoswine does subpar damage to Cresselia, Suicune can take 3-4 Earthquakes and respond with a well directed Surf.

Kingdra: Indeed a problem, although not as terrible as Gyarados. With a Reflect up i'll usually force it to Outrage with Suicune, then finish it off with Lucario.

Scizor: Gliscor can absorb anything CB Scizor has. Tyranitar lures it in and finishes it off.
 
Four set-up sweepers seems a little extreme, don't you think? If you are having big problems with DDGyarados, why not try switching Gliscor out for TrickScarf Rotom-A? Timid 252 Speed + Scarf will always outspeed 1DD Gyara, and your electric attack of choice will tear him a new one. Overheat makes a nice secondary move to serve as a counter to opposing Lucario and Scizor. Your third move can be a Hidden power of your choice or Shadow Ball, depending what kind of coverage you want and what threats you want to check. The fourth move is obviously Trick.

Also, I disagree that Lucario is the number 1 physical threat, and that it can take out entire stall teams. Aforementioned Rotom-A shrugs off anything except Crunch, which it can live through easily if you spam it on the switch-in without a SD, and will easily OHKO back with Overheat. Many stall teams run that Rotom to check Scizor, Gyara, Lucario, and opposing Trickers.

I also disagree that Tyranitar cannot be countered. ScarfJirachi can easily knock him down with an outspeeding Iron Head, and even with Bibari weakening the first hit, he'll get a second 60% of the time due to the flinch chance. Swampert also lives 2 +1 Crunches, especially Jolly without Life Orb. Additionally, Skarmory can always live a +1 Stone Edge/Fire Punch and Whirlwind you out, and roost can keep him at enough health to keep doing this. Swampert and Skarmory lose to your lunar-dance plan, but unfortunately Jirachi does not. No matter what you do, unless you can get 2 dances in, Jirachi will almost always beat you down.
 
Rotom-A dies to crunch, so that is not a problem for luke
Scarfchi can be walled by Suicune
HP electric in suicune or T-punch in jirachi could work to stop gyara, but it can still hurt your team a lot
 
If Gyarados gives you trouble, give HP Electric over Ice Beam on Suicune a try. It also hits Vaporeon, who can come in on Surfs and laughs at even boosted Ice Beams. Bulkier Gyarados will probably Taunt you, so it could be quite effective to net a few free kills.

Also, on Gliscor, I would suggest the spread of 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd, as it allows him to outrun base 90s, like Adamant Lucario.
 
Gameplay: Suicune is usually my early switch in to the likes of Heatran and Infernape. Modest is there because i need to hit Celebi and Zapdos as hard as possible
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I think he wants Ice Beam for dealing with Zapdos and Celebi, i was thinking about HP Electric too, but then i saw this paragraph and i thought it wasnt a good idea, but it can be tested.

Very cool team ^^
 
Very Nice Offensive Team. I see that you have your weaknesses covered up nicely and I see the merit of Lunar Dance Cressy. Its bulky as hell and it helps to heal a damaged poke after the damaged poke has done battle.

A professional Entry Hazard Team can be annoying though. And although not common these days, TauntGyara really has a field day vs this team nullfying any Reflect you want to set up with Cressy. I prefer T-Punch over U-Turn. You can even put Stone Edge over Ice Fang on Gliscor. Only noteworthy thing Ice Fang does is the nice OHKOs on Flygon, Celebi, and some things on the switch.

Edit: Oh lol alot of ppl already mentioned Gyarados xD. Haha its also funny I had a similar team like this in the beginning of D/P with 5/6 pokes similarity and 3/6 poke Moveset similar
 
ReyScarface said:
I think he wants Ice Beam for dealing with Zapdos and Celebi, i was thinking about HP Electric too, but then i saw this paragraph and i thought it wasnt a good idea, but it can be tested.

Very cool team ^^
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Ah, nevermind then. I wasn't thinking about that.
 
wildfire393 said:
Four set-up sweepers seems a little extreme, don't you think?
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Not really, the screen support usually makes up for it. That and the fact that this team is all about weakening vital Pokemon to achieve its goal, each sweeper makes room for the other one. Note how they share common counters.

If you are having big problems with DDGyarados, why not try switching Gliscor out for TrickScarf Rotom-A? Timid 252 Speed + Scarf will always outspeed 1DD Gyara, and your electric attack of choice will tear him a new one.
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Yes, Rotom-H is an option, although running another Choice user might end up a Double Edged sword to me seeing as i can't really afford to switch out often, taking crucial damage on the process.
I will test this.

I also disagree that Tyranitar cannot be countered. ScarfJirachi can easily knock him down with an outspeeding Iron Head
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Now that's not the definition of a Tyranitar Counter is it? Revenge killing at best, which as you already stated is kinda problematic as Jirachi will have to get lucky.

Nonetheless no Pokemon is uncounterable, i was merely exaggerating. :P

greg3064 said:
If Gyarados gives you trouble, give HP Electric over Ice Beam on Suicune a try.
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The problem is that with Suicune having HP Electric i miss the super effective hit on most Pokemon am aiming to weaken in the first place.
I'll test it just in case.

LoveDestiny said:
Very Nice Offensive Team.
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Ty :)

I am considering of using Offensive Suicune > Current one although that will make me alot more susceptible to stall.

Thanks for the rates so far.
 
It's a good team and very original I'm safe to say Gyarados or TauntGyarados will ruin this plan. I think I might have a couple of ways to beat TauntGyarados which always carry Waterfall / Stone Edge for best coverage. You could fix the EV's to the more appropriate one on Jirachi to 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Sp, Jolly nature. Adamant is not needed unless you replace U-Turn for something. That being said you might want to consider or slip in Thunder Punch somewhere there to fend of Gyarados. Earthquake shouldn't be a problem and with 80 HP you should take waterfalls from Gyarados and they don't normally run 252 Atk on taunt. You also outspeed it after a DD boost which is great. If you are scared of Magnezone you could ditch Trick for U-Turn if you like but that's not your best option. If for any reason you get trapped adding HP [Electric] in place of Ice Beam on Suicune would be really good. It also gives you a chance to hit through SubPetaya Empoleon which is a problem. There really isn't much I could say, your rating for this team says it all. good luck
 
I think your really problem to gyarados stems from the switch in opportunities you allow it through your pokemon ie, gliscor without an SD Lucario, easily countered cresselia helpless suicune unable to touch it. In this case you need an extremely solid gyarados counter. I have some suggestions. One could change Gliscor to a bulky gyara of your own this alleviates the stress placed on suicune as right now it fills many roles. You could then chenge that suicune to a rest talk rotom set cos other wise metagross causes problems.

To continue it might be a good to swap the suicune to the friendly porygon2 one of my fave pokemons he can counter tran,mence and even your dreaded Gyarados to which he is easily the best counter for. p2 also works really well in conjuction with gliscor who will easily counter the fighting types and ttars aimed at him. Good Luck with the team.

I absolutely adore the idea behind this team. Pure Genius.
Well done Astamatitos another inspirational team.
 
I really like this team. I think it is a fantastic concept.

To help deal with Gyarados, I think Stone Edge over Crunch on Lucario would be a great change. Most people that use Gyarados rely on it as their Lucario counter. Thus, I think that if you can eliminate it with Stone Edge, you are primed for a late game sweep after a Lunar Dance. Also, you could give Gliscor Hyper Cutter and Stone Edge. He tends to lure in Gyarados as well.

Lastly, Suicune could be given HP Electric over Rest instead of Ice Beam like others have mentioned. You won't have a whole lot of time to recover your health anyway, and if you absolutely need your Suicune again, you still have Lunar Dance. If you do this, I wouldn't do a standard offensive 'cune. I'd run a spread of 172 HP / 120 SpA / 216 Spe with leftovers since you do still need him to take a lot of hits.

I can't see any weaknesses here other than the Gyarados weakness that you are already aware of.

Great job on this. I think I'll try something similar in UU with something like a Mesprit (Healing Wish).
 
use wish vaporeon over suicune with hp electric to take care of gyarados, that also enables you to not use lunar dance if you want with the wish support.
 
FM said:
use wish vaporeon over suicune with hp electric to take care of gyarados, that also enables you to not use lunar dance if you want with the wish support.
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Lunar Dance removes status, restores PP, AND restores HP, while also freeing up an entire turn for him after he uses screens. Wish takes a whole other turn to heal, and Lucario/Tyranitar might die if they are really low on health. I think his team is fine like it is.
 
Astamatitos said:
Now that's not the definition of a Tyranitar Counter is it? Revenge killing at best, which as you already stated is kinda problematic as Jirachi will have to get lucky.

Nonetheless no Pokemon is uncounterable, i was merely exaggerating. :P
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Jirachi doesn't need to Revenge Tyranitar, he can switch in on Dragon Dance and still outspeed to KO. Additionally, Ttar's +1 Fire Punch only does 58-68% to 80 HP/0 Def Jirachi (Choice Scarf Standard), meaning even if he misses the 60% Flinch chance, he will survive your attack all of the time even with Stealth Rock damage and get a second (lethal) hit off. Even with Cresselia waiting in the wings to refresh Ttar, you still need him to miss his Iron Head Flinch both on the first time he tries to counter you and on the second time when you're refreshed in order to get the two +1 Fire Punches in that you need to KO him. This makes Jirachi a 100% "Safe" DDTyranitar counter, which is something that DDtar's usual counters of Scizor and Swampert cannot boast.
 
wildfire393 said:
Jirachi doesn't need to Revenge Tyranitar, he can switch in on Dragon Dance and still outspeed to KO. Additionally, Ttar's +1 Fire Punch only does 58-68% to 80 HP/0 Def Jirachi (Choice Scarf Standard), meaning even if he misses the 60% Flinch chance, he will survive your attack all of the time even with Stealth Rock damage and get a second (lethal) hit off. Even with Cresselia waiting in the wings to refresh Ttar, you still need him to miss his Iron Head Flinch both on the first time he tries to counter you and on the second time when you're refreshed in order to get the two +1 Fire Punches in that you need to KO him. This makes Jirachi a 100% "Safe" DDTyranitar counter, which is something that DDtar's usual counters of Scizor and Swampert cannot boast.
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Swampert does a fine job of countering DD Ttar... He is 3HKOed by a +1 Crunch, while his EQ 2HKOs. He only has problems with CB Tyranitar, as he can't switchin.

Jirachi also has problems with EQ, but yeah, he can deal with Tyranitar.
 
@Wildfire393

You're relying on Tar DDing on the switch. All it has to do is EQ/Fire Punch on the switch and suddenly Jirachi is relying on a flinch to stop Tar the next time it switches in to DD. Not to mention just EQing/Fire Punching on the switch the next time too. If your opponent switches jirachi into your tyranitar it is pretty obvious it is scarfed and it isn't too wise to stay in if that's the case. Scarfjirachi also doesn't hit too hard so it is easy to switch into for pretty much the other 5 pokemon on his team (well maybe lucario would have trouble doing it more than once).
In comparison, Swampert can take pretty much anything nonboosted from tar for a while and force it out though Crunch on the switch twice and then DD crunch should be good for that too. As Astamatitos said...DDtar is challenging to 100% counter.


On the subject of the team...It looks kind of slow and frail. How do you deal with 100% offensive teams?
 
I would change a few things - I would lead with an Occa Metagross.

Meteor Mash/Grass Knot/Bullet Punch/Stealth Rock with OccaBerrywith 212 HP 100 Atk 118 Def 80 SAtk Adamant (or Naughty/Lonely if you want more power behind Grass Knot), in order to get Rocks up, suprise Swampert leads, take out Aerodactyl and Azelf without risking a Protect on your Explosion, and stay around to do further damage.

I would actually use Scarf Latias over CM Cune - gives a solid Infernape counter (which doesn't feel a NP Grass Knot, can hit hard behind 110 SAtk, and take hits with 130 SDef). Scarfcune could work too.

Ice Beam is better for this than Psychic, as a check to Salamence.

Maybe run 280 speed on Gliscor in order to beat Adamant Lucario. Stone Edge is better to hit Gyarados and Zapdos, and I would also prefer Hyper Cutter to avoid Intimidate, even though Gliscor benefits from Sand Veil.

to wildfire: Gliscor is going to beat Jirachi every time unless Jirachi gets horrendously lucky (which can happen!) or Jirachi has Ice Punch.
 
After looking at this team for a bit, I'm finding your team to have a somewhat big weakness to Gengar, who can hit most of your team very hard, even without Life Orb. If my analysis is correct, your best response to Gengar would have to be Jirachi, but Jirachi can only take 3-4 Shadow Balls, and without ways to secure a kill on Gengar, Gengar can easily accomplish this with time.

It is impossible to provide a direct change to your team since it would mess with the current synergy, but you can change around two Pokémon on your team to keep the same defensive synergy. My first suggestion is to replace Lucario for Scizor. By doing so, you can cover your Gengar weakness more effectively without much trouble to your team. The next thing would be to replace Gliscor for Salamence; in particular, MixMence would be your best option to deal with stall, and at the same time, provides the same exact synergy that Gliscor does.

If you decide to go for the suggestion I provided, it would be wise to replace U-Turn for Thunderpunch on Jirachi. U-Turn is pretty useless since Magnezone can easily trap you either way, and Scizor can scout for your team as well.
 
husk said:
@Wildfire393
On the subject of the team...It looks kind of slow and frail. How do you deal with 100% offensive teams?
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Cresselia can switch in on just so many things while Scizor is usually the only Pokemon they are willing to send on a potentially Thunder Wave Cresselia (always assuming it's a 100% offensive team), thus allowing me to get at least a Reflect up.
Reflect and Light Screen usually ruin it for the offensive teams i've faced.

I've faced a couple of Gengars today which were indeed problematic. Most other special oriented sweepers can be hindered by Cresselia's Light Screen, Gengar on the other hand is able to hit for SE.

I'll be testing the following Metagross set over Jirachi for now as Ancien convinced me already :)

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 212 HP/252 Atk/44 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Bullet Punch
- Stealth Rock

Lum Berry as it will provide me with some Gengar coverage.
Adamant Nature because i want to be hitting Skarmory/Hippowdon/Rotom as much as possible.

Replacing Jirachi with Metagorss also means that i'll be losing Speed as Jirachi was the only Pokemon with an above average Speed stat.

To make up for that i'll be also testing ScarfRotom over Gliscor.

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/216 Spd/40 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Trick

This is not final though as i haven't playtested the new team yet.
If those new changes are efficient i'll be changing the first post as well.
 
Only posting to say how interesting this team is to me.

Excellent makeup from what I can tell, kudos Asta.

I'm going to try my own version of a LD Cresselia sweep team now!

EDIT: Btw, I have to say I really don't like AR's suggestion at all! That Jirachi has a lot more utility against various threats than that Metagross! I would really recommend subbing U-turn for ThunderPunch and trying that out first!

As for the Gliscor change to Rotom, can you explain why you're thinking of that as well? I mean, tell me the obvious (I can guess those), but tell me what else you are thinking because I am struggling to see how the switch won't just open up other holes in the team.

EDIT #2: J7r brought up something on irc that I wonder as well. How do you deal with smart players using Taunt, and smart players using Skarmory? I can Jirachi screwing it over with Trick and Suicune doing maybe like 40% to it on a switchin surf (Luke will need an SD to threaten it), but otherwise I well played Spiking Skarm might give you fits (which is one reason why I think Jirachi holds more utility for you than Metagross)
 
Aldaron said:
As for the Gliscor change to Rotom, can you explain why you're thinking of that as well? I mean, tell me the obvious (I can guess those), but tell me what else you are thinking because I am struggling to see how the switch won't just open up other holes in the team.
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TTar now has no solid counters and can cause serios problems if dd or even just CB i really dont think is the right solution. And further opens you up to gengar who is now entirely fearsome.
 
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