The Zangoose in question isn't the Swords Dance set, it's the four attacks version. Neither member of your core can switch in on Zangoose since unboosted Close Combat does 154.07% minimum to Liepard and Night Slash 2HKOs and has a 25% chance to OHKO after Toxic Orb activates. Moreover, if you fodder Frillish to get Liepard in safely, you can only sub+protect stall five or six times before you no longer have enough HP to continue doing so, and you can't stall out both Zangoose and Liepard before that happens.
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Crisis Core Revival! Round Five
- Thread starter Raseri
- Start date
The Zangoose in question isn't the Swords Dance set, it's the four attacks version. Neither member of your core can switch in on Zangoose since unboosted Close Combat does 154.07% minimum to Liepard and Night Slash 2HKOs and has a 25% chance to OHKO after Toxic Orb activates. Moreover, if you fodder Frillish to get Liepard in safely, you can only sub+protect stall five or six times before you no longer have enough HP to continue doing so, and you can't stall out both Zangoose and Liepard before that happens.
My mistake. Ignore what I have for Liepard. If you guys want, feel free to use Frillish...
Just to make sure, reserving muk and sawsbuck
But if you think in worst case scenario logic, couldn't Haunter just get hit by Night Slash on the switch? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure I quite understand what you completely mean.
EDIT: Ah, okay. Thanks FLCL.
For EBeast's core, the worst case scenario would be that the opponent switches out Zangoose when Gurdurr is in, forces it out, and double switches back into Zangoose as EBeast brings Ludicolo in. Now I'm not too sure if Gurdurr will be forced out by Samurott or not and I'm not going to get into the specifics, but that would be an example of a worst case scenario. Haunter switching into a Night Slash is also an example, and has a much higher chance to happen than a double switch.
k im going to be quick about updating points and stuff, so no hide tags :)
Round 2(Altaria + Torterra) points:
cbb - yep 2 points*
Xei Won Toh - 2 points for you as well*
Django - A 50/50 is really pushing it, a well played Torterra wins! 0 points*
Annoyer - 1 point*
FLCL - 1 point
Chaotica_Mortis - I've seen worse gimmicks. 2 points*
NuclearMedicineT - 1 point
BROstime - Stone Edge. 0 points*
Fun_With_Knives - 1 point*
breh - Champion Bronzor. 2 points*
drakon136 - grass types doing work, 2 points*
Yonko7 - cbb has a point. 0 points
Lady Shinki - I like it, 2 points
melvni - 2 points*
Alex Arthur - 1 point*
Also, it appears that your Hidden Powers were to difficult for you to find! Any core relying on it has 1 point subtracted from its gain. The following users gained points and were uneffected: FLCL, Lady Shinki, NuclearMedicineT. Every other person who gained points gains 1 less.
Time for Zangoose + Samurott:
drakon136 - I don't see why not. 1 point*
Annoyer - cbb discussed it. 0 points
FLCL - poor shedinja. 1 point*
cbb - sure 1 point*
melvni - 1 point i like it
Yonko7 - 1 point
Ebeast - 1 point
Flashrider57 - 0 points
And just to annoy you guys even more, cores where one pokemon does nothing but die lose 1 point! Since we don't believe in killing Pokemon without letting them fight. melvni's electrode does not fall under this since it does lots of damage in its situation
New Leaderboard:
FLCL - 4
melvni - 4
Sweet Jesus - 2
Lady Shinki - 2
CrashinBoomBang - 3
Battlestar - 1
Django - 1
Keiran - 1
Annoyer - 1
ShuckleKing87 - 1
Ebeast - 1
Yonko7 - 1
Xei Won Toh - 1
Chaotica_Mortis - 1
breh - 1
NuclearMedicineT - 1
drakon136 - 1
OK next round:
@ Heat Rock
Trait: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Roost
@ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- Growth
- SolarBeam
- Weather Ball
Here Come's the Sun! Can you handle the heat? If not get out of the thread!
Also on a completely unrelated note, I'm looking for a cohost, someone who will help me with updates and making sure I don't slack off. It shouldn't take to much free time, if you're interested drop me a PM on the forums telling me why you'd like to help :)
Round 2(Altaria + Torterra) points:
cbb - yep 2 points*
Xei Won Toh - 2 points for you as well*
Django - A 50/50 is really pushing it, a well played Torterra wins! 0 points*
Annoyer - 1 point*
FLCL - 1 point
Chaotica_Mortis - I've seen worse gimmicks. 2 points*
NuclearMedicineT - 1 point
BROstime - Stone Edge. 0 points*
Fun_With_Knives - 1 point*
breh - Champion Bronzor. 2 points*
drakon136 - grass types doing work, 2 points*
Yonko7 - cbb has a point. 0 points
Lady Shinki - I like it, 2 points
melvni - 2 points*
Alex Arthur - 1 point*
Also, it appears that your Hidden Powers were to difficult for you to find! Any core relying on it has 1 point subtracted from its gain. The following users gained points and were uneffected: FLCL, Lady Shinki, NuclearMedicineT. Every other person who gained points gains 1 less.
Time for Zangoose + Samurott:
drakon136 - I don't see why not. 1 point*
Annoyer - cbb discussed it. 0 points
FLCL - poor shedinja. 1 point*
cbb - sure 1 point*
melvni - 1 point i like it
Yonko7 - 1 point
Ebeast - 1 point
Flashrider57 - 0 points
And just to annoy you guys even more, cores where one pokemon does nothing but die lose 1 point! Since we don't believe in killing Pokemon without letting them fight. melvni's electrode does not fall under this since it does lots of damage in its situation
New Leaderboard:
FLCL - 4
melvni - 4
Sweet Jesus - 2
Lady Shinki - 2
CrashinBoomBang - 3
Battlestar - 1
Django - 1
Keiran - 1
Annoyer - 1
ShuckleKing87 - 1
Ebeast - 1
Yonko7 - 1
Xei Won Toh - 1
Chaotica_Mortis - 1
breh - 1
NuclearMedicineT - 1
drakon136 - 1
OK next round:
Trait: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Roost
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- Growth
- SolarBeam
- Weather Ball
Here Come's the Sun! Can you handle the heat? If not get out of the thread!
Also on a completely unrelated note, I'm looking for a cohost, someone who will help me with updates and making sure I don't slack off. It shouldn't take to much free time, if you're interested drop me a PM on the forums telling me why you'd like to help :)
EDIT: LOL THIS FAILED.
Reserving Gardevoir. I'm also going to assume that since both Pokemon are running Sunny Day that Sun isn't actually up yet.
Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Trace
EV's: 94 HP / 68 SpAtk / 252 SpDef / 96 Spe
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Trick
Well, I had to come up with a funky EV spread to do it, but Gardevoir can effectively beat this core with just Psychic.
Relevant Calculations:
Charizard:
68 SpAtk Gardevoir (+SpAtk) Psychic vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 52.68% - 62.42%
2 hits to KO
252 SpAtk Charizard Fire Blast vs 94 HP/252 SpDef Gardevoir: 42% - 49.33%
3 hits to KO
0 SpAtk Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs 94 HP/252 SpDef Gardevoir: 74.33% - 88%
2 hits to KO
Victreebel:
68 SpAtk Gardevoir (+SpAtk) Psychic vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 137.09% - 161.92%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 94 HP/252 SpDef Gardevoir: 56% - 66%
2 hits to KO
If Charizard is in first:
If Victreebel is in first:
Well damn it, Raseri threw in Stealth Rocks before I could switch Gardevoir in, so Charizard actually kills me. If I switch into Fire Blast I get 2HKO'd before I can manage to beat 'Zard. If my opponent has Victreebel out first and uses Sunny Day, Gardevoir will lose when 'Zard switches in, avoids being OHKO'd, and OHKO's Gard with Fire Blast. Oh well, I'll try and come up with another Pokemon.
Reserving Gardevoir. I'm also going to assume that since both Pokemon are running Sunny Day that Sun isn't actually up yet.
Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Trace
EV's: 94 HP / 68 SpAtk / 252 SpDef / 96 Spe
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Trick
Well, I had to come up with a funky EV spread to do it, but Gardevoir can effectively beat this core with just Psychic.
Relevant Calculations:
Charizard:
68 SpAtk Gardevoir (+SpAtk) Psychic vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 52.68% - 62.42%
2 hits to KO
252 SpAtk Charizard Fire Blast vs 94 HP/252 SpDef Gardevoir: 42% - 49.33%
3 hits to KO
0 SpAtk Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs 94 HP/252 SpDef Gardevoir: 74.33% - 88%
2 hits to KO
Victreebel:
68 SpAtk Gardevoir (+SpAtk) Psychic vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 137.09% - 161.92%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 94 HP/252 SpDef Gardevoir: 56% - 66%
2 hits to KO
If Charizard is in first:
- Uses Sunny Day: Gardevoir comes in safe,Traces Solar Power, and then OHKO's Charizard the next turn with Psychic. After Charizard faints, Victreebel comes in, does max 66% to Gardevoir, and is OHKO'd by Psychic.
- Uses Fire Blast: Gardevoir comes in, tanks the hit like a boss, and proceeds to 2HKO 'Zard. Victreebel comes in and proceeds to be outsped and OHKO'd.
If Victreebel is in first:
- Uses Sunny Day: Gardevoir comes in for free, traces Chlorophyll, outspeeds Victreebel and gets the OHKO. Charizard comes in and is outsped and 2HKO'd.
- Uses SolarBeam: Gardevoir comes in for free and kills it before it can attack. Charizard comes in and gets 2HKO'd without being able to take Gardevoir down.
Well damn it, Raseri threw in Stealth Rocks before I could switch Gardevoir in, so Charizard actually kills me. If I switch into Fire Blast I get 2HKO'd before I can manage to beat 'Zard. If my opponent has Victreebel out first and uses Sunny Day, Gardevoir will lose when 'Zard switches in, avoids being OHKO'd, and OHKO's Gard with Fire Blast. Oh well, I'll try and come up with another Pokemon.
Altaria @ Life Orb
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
Offensive Altaria counters this core so hard it's not even funny. With Cloud Nine negating the effects of Sunny Day, a double resistance to Grass and a single resistance to Fire, the biggest attacks it can expect to switch into are Charizard's Fire Blast or Victreebel's unboosted Weather Ball. Look at these calcs:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) Weather Ball vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Altaria: 21,99% - 25,77% (4-5 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Charizard Fire Blast vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Altaria: 28,52% - 33,68% (3-4 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Charizard Fire Blast vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Altaria: 28,52% - 33,68% (3-4 hits to KO)
Do these look like safe switch-ins to you? They look like safe switch-ins to me. Switching in on either of these attacks, Altaria can Roost up to put herself outside of 2HKO range barring critical hits, and boost up with Dragon Dance. One Dance is enough to outspeed and OHKO either opponent.
252 +1 Atk Life Orb Altaria (+Atk) Outrage vs 4 HP/0 Def Charizard: 115,1% - 135,91% (Guaranteed OHKO)
252 +1 Atk Life Orb Altaria (+Atk) Outrage vs 4 HP/0 Def Victreebel: 131,46% - 154,97% (Guaranteed OHKO)
252 +1 Atk Life Orb Altaria (+Atk) Outrage vs 4 HP/0 Def Victreebel: 131,46% - 154,97% (Guaranteed OHKO)
Thus, outside of switching into a critical hit Fire Blast from Charizard, Altaria can switch into the core and handily counter it.
What other possible ways could the scenario go?
It could switch in on Sunny Day. Because Cloud Nine negates it, it's a free switch-in. Altaria's victory is trivial.
It could switch in on Solar Beam from either opponent. This gives a free turn to set up after taking pitiful damage from a 4x resisted attack. Victory is trivial.
I'm not even going to comment on switching in on Charizard's Roost.
It could switch in on Victreebel's Growth. This gives us a new calculation:
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) Weather Ball vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Altaria: 32,65% - 38,14% (3-4 hits to KO)
And we see that this is no contest either. As Victreebel uses its +1 Weather Ball, Altaria Dragon Dances. After SR, she'll have no less than (25+38,14=36,86)% HP. She then outspeeds and OHKOs the core with Outrage, without dying to LO recoil.
Apart from hax (critical hits, or Charizard's Fire Blast getting a Burn), Altaria is a foolproof counter, as far as I can see.
Reserving Flareon. This one will definitely work.
Flareon @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 SpDef
Careful Nature
-Wish
-Protect
-Flamethrower
-Hidden Power Rock
If Charizard is in first, Flareon can come in on any of its attacks and OHKO it with HP Rock. If Victreebel is in first, Flareon can come in on any of its attacks and OHKO it with Flamethrower. Wish + Protect are there if you're really worried about not having enough HP. Victreebel would have to get to +4 before Flareon came in for it to be able to OHKO it with SolarBeam, and that's really the best shot this core has at defeating Flareon.
Flareon @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 SpDef
Careful Nature
-Wish
-Protect
-Flamethrower
-Hidden Power Rock
Charizard:
252 SpAtk Flareon (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Rock vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 104.7% - 123.49%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Charizard SolarBeam vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 15.81% - 18.75%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 111 - 119 (40.81% - 43.75%)
6-7 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Victreebel:
252 SpAtk Flareon (+SpAtk) Flamethrower vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 138.08% - 162.91%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 31.99% - 37.5%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 155 - 170 (56.99% - 62.5%)
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) Weather Ball vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 18.01% - 21.32%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 117 - 126 (43.01% - 46.32%)
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 +4 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 94.85% - 111.4%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 326 - 371 (119.85% - 136.4%)
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Flareon (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Rock vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 104.7% - 123.49%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Charizard SolarBeam vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 15.81% - 18.75%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 111 - 119 (40.81% - 43.75%)
6-7 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Victreebel:
252 SpAtk Flareon (+SpAtk) Flamethrower vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 138.08% - 162.91%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 31.99% - 37.5%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 155 - 170 (56.99% - 62.5%)
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) Weather Ball vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 18.01% - 21.32%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 117 - 126 (43.01% - 46.32%)
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 +4 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Flareon: 94.85% - 111.4%
Entry hazards damage: 68
After entry hazards: 326 - 371 (119.85% - 136.4%)
Guaranteed OHKO
If Charizard is in first, Flareon can come in on any of its attacks and OHKO it with HP Rock. If Victreebel is in first, Flareon can come in on any of its attacks and OHKO it with Flamethrower. Wish + Protect are there if you're really worried about not having enough HP. Victreebel would have to get to +4 before Flareon came in for it to be able to OHKO it with SolarBeam, and that's really the best shot this core has at defeating Flareon.
reserving shelgon lol
Shelgon @ Eviolite
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Atk
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
Charizard's Fire Blast in sun: 43.41 - 51.19%
Victreebel's SolarBeam: 26.34 - 30.83%
+2 Victreebel's SolarBeam: 52.09 - 61.37%
+1 Shelgon's Rock Slide vs Charizard: 129.29 - 153.53%
+1 Shelgon's Outrage vs Victreebel: 90.39 - 106.62% (KO after Life Orb Damage)
If vs Charizard:
Turn 1: Sunny Day or Fire Blast
Shelgon takes Fire Blast like a man, sets up DD
Turn 2: KOes with Rock Slide
Turn 3: Even if sun is up, and Victreebel chooses to Growth, it's dead next turn due to LO. It does not kill Shelgon! Outrage does 90%, meaning turn 4, if it happens, gg victreebel.
If vs Victreebel:
Turn 1: It does whatever, Shelgon sets up +1
Turn 2: basically turn 3 vs Charizard.
Shelgon @ Eviolite
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Atk
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
Charizard's Fire Blast in sun: 43.41 - 51.19%
Victreebel's SolarBeam: 26.34 - 30.83%
+2 Victreebel's SolarBeam: 52.09 - 61.37%
+1 Shelgon's Rock Slide vs Charizard: 129.29 - 153.53%
+1 Shelgon's Outrage vs Victreebel: 90.39 - 106.62% (KO after Life Orb Damage)
If vs Charizard:
Turn 1: Sunny Day or Fire Blast
Shelgon takes Fire Blast like a man, sets up DD
Turn 2: KOes with Rock Slide
Turn 3: Even if sun is up, and Victreebel chooses to Growth, it's dead next turn due to LO. It does not kill Shelgon! Outrage does 90%, meaning turn 4, if it happens, gg victreebel.
If vs Victreebel:
Turn 1: It does whatever, Shelgon sets up +1
Turn 2: basically turn 3 vs Charizard.
Rapidash @ Expert Belt
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 220 Spd / 36 SDef / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
252 SpAtk Expert Belt Rapidash Hidden Power Rock vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 101.68% - 121.21%
252 SpAtk Expert Belt Rapidash Flamethrower vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 203.32% - 239.2%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 0 HP/36 SpDef Rapidash: 49.82% - 58.3%
252 SpAtk Expert Belt Rapidash Flamethrower vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 203.32% - 239.2%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 0 HP/36 SpDef Rapidash: 49.82% - 58.3%
Rapidash cannot be KO'ed by Victreebel even after switching into Stealth Rocks as it sets up Sunny Day and Solarbeams. Any other situation just results in the core being outsped and OHKO'ed. Charizard cannot touch Rapidash since it has to set up Sunny Day first in order to be able to hit it.
Reserving Lampent.
Goddamnit I thought I calc'd with SR included.
Anyways:
Mantine @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 8 Def / 248 HP / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Air Slash
- Scald
Gorebyss @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Shell Smash
No matter what, Mantine will live two hits and get Rain up (assuming no crits). After it dies, Gorebyss can take over.
252 SpAtk Life Orb Gorebyss (+SpAtk) Surf vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 234,34% - 275,76% (Guaranteed OHKO)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Gorebyss (+SpAtk) Ice Beam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 135,1% - 158,94% (Guaranteed OHKO)
Goddamnit I thought I calc'd with SR included.
Anyways:
Mantine @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 8 Def / 248 HP / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Air Slash
- Scald
Gorebyss @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Shell Smash
252 SpAtk Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs 248 HP/252 SpDef Mantine (+SpDef) : 33,03% - 39,04% (3 hits to KO) (in the sun)
252 SpAtk Solar Power Charizard SolarBeam vs 248 HP/252 SpDef Mantine (+SpDef) : 29,73% - 35,14% (3 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 248 HP/252 SpDef Mantine (+SpDef) : 39,94% - 47,15% (3 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Solar Power Charizard SolarBeam vs 248 HP/252 SpDef Mantine (+SpDef) : 29,73% - 35,14% (3 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SpAtk) SolarBeam vs 248 HP/252 SpDef Mantine (+SpDef) : 39,94% - 47,15% (3 hits to KO)
No matter what, Mantine will live two hits and get Rain up (assuming no crits). After it dies, Gorebyss can take over.
252 SpAtk Life Orb Gorebyss (+SpAtk) Surf vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 234,34% - 275,76% (Guaranteed OHKO)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Gorebyss (+SpAtk) Ice Beam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 135,1% - 158,94% (Guaranteed OHKO)
Grumpig (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 64 SAtk / 192 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
vs Charizard:
- Can easily switch in on Sunny Day or Fire Blast, proceed to set up as many Calm Minds as it likes while Resting when necessary.
- The fact a Sun boosted Fire Blast only does 37-44% means this is pretty trivial. SolarBeam does even less.
- Even at only +1, Grumpig does enough damage to comfortably 2HKO meaning charizard cannot rest it off.
- If switching in on Charizard, Grumpig beats the core with ease.
252SpAtk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Fire Blast in Sun vs 252HP/194SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Grumpig (+SpDef): 37% - 44% (138 - 162 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
64SpAtk +1 Grumpig (Neutral) Psychic vs 4HP/0SpDef Charizard (Neutral): 54% - 64% (163 - 193 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
64SpAtk +1 Grumpig (Neutral) Psychic vs 4HP/0SpDef Charizard (Neutral): 54% - 64% (163 - 193 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
vs Victreebel
- Switches in on Sunny Day easily (Victreebel has to use this turn 1 to have any chance).
- Psychic has a 74% chance to OHKO, while it will certainly KO through Life Orb Recoil. Relying on this damage roll once is reliable enough imo, its more accurate than Focus Blast.
- After two rounds of Leftovers, Stealth Rocks damage will be gone, so the worst health Grumpig will be at is 47% if it is hit with a max roll SolarBeam on the turn it uses Psychic against Victreebel.
- The maximum damage Chzarizard can do with Fire Blast is 44%, so Grumpig can easily survive this and Rest off the damage after being hit. This leaves Grumpig at 100% with 3 turns of Sun left.
252SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel (+SAtk) SolarBeam in Sun vs 252HP/194SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Grumpig (+SpDef): 45% - 53% (165 - 195 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 1% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
64SpAtk Grumpig (Neutral) Psychic vs 4HP/0SpDef Victreebel (Neutral): 95% - 113% (288 - 342 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 74% chance to OHKO.
64SpAtk Grumpig (Neutral) Psychic vs 4HP/0SpDef Victreebel (Neutral): 95% - 113% (288 - 342 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 74% chance to OHKO.
vs Charizard after beating Victreebel:
- We have a 100% Sleeping Grumpig vs Charizard with 3 turns of Sun left. Assuming average damage, Grumpig will be left at 30% after two turns. If it can roll Calm Mind while using Sleep Talk on either of those two turns then it will survive the final Fire Blast with a minimum of 1%:
- 252SpAtk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Fire Blast in Sun vs 252HP/194SpDef Leftovers +1 Thick Fat Grumpig (+SpDef): 25% - 29% (92 - 108 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
- The odds of hitting Calm Mind on either turn is about 5/9. Not great I know, but consider this: Charizard also has to hit 3 Fire Blasts in a row. The odds of this happening is ~0.61. So we have two events which have to happen in order for Charizard to win, the 4/9 (~0.44) of Grumpig not hitting Calm Mind over two turns, as well as the 0.61 of hitting 3 Fire Blasts. The chance of both these happening is ~0.27, meaning Grumpig has a 0.73 chance of winning. This is practically the same as the chance of Grumpig OHKOing Victreebel, so if we assume it there then we can safely assume it here.
- The only problem is Grumpig has to hit both these chances, having an overall 54% chance to win. Not ideal I know but its better than 50/50, and I spent too long on this so thats all idc anymore :)
Reserving Volbeat and Ludicolo.
Volbeat @ Occa Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Rain Dance
- Thunder Wave
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
With the listed EV spread and an Occa Berry, Volbeat is able to switch in on any of Charizard's attacks outside of sun, only being 2HKO'd by Fire Blast and Air Slash.
Air Slash: 188-224 (56.45 - 67.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Fire Blast: 151-178 (45.34 - 53.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Afterwards, Volbeat can just use Rain Dance as Charizard KOes it, giving a chance for Ludicolo to sweep.
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
Ludicolo can easily 2HKO Charizard and Victreebel with Surf and Ice Beam respectively, while outspeeding them due to Swift Swim.
Surf vs. Charizard: Surf: 584-690 (196.63 - 232.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ice Beam vs. Victreebel: Ice Beam: 348-410 (115.23 - 135.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Volbeat @ Occa Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Rain Dance
- Thunder Wave
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
With the listed EV spread and an Occa Berry, Volbeat is able to switch in on any of Charizard's attacks outside of sun, only being 2HKO'd by Fire Blast and Air Slash.
Air Slash: 188-224 (56.45 - 67.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Fire Blast: 151-178 (45.34 - 53.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Afterwards, Volbeat can just use Rain Dance as Charizard KOes it, giving a chance for Ludicolo to sweep.
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
Ludicolo can easily 2HKO Charizard and Victreebel with Surf and Ice Beam respectively, while outspeeding them due to Swift Swim.
Surf vs. Charizard: Surf: 584-690 (196.63 - 232.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ice Beam vs. Victreebel: Ice Beam: 348-410 (115.23 - 135.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Champion Heatmor
Heatmor
@ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 84 SAtk / 176 SDef
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Taunt
- Giga Drain
Heatmor
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 84 SAtk / 176 SDef
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Taunt
- Giga Drain
- Lol, they can't touch Heatmor out of Solarbeam that is a 3hko with those evs at best.
- Hidden Power Rock has good chances of OHKOing Charizard after a single round of solar power unless it goes for lol roost first turn.
- Flamethrower obviously OHKOes Victreebel sun or not.
- Taunt is there just in case you want to prevent Charizard from roosting.
SolarBeam: 87-103 (23.32 - 27.61%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock. Charizard
SolarBeam: 118-139 (31.63 - 37.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock. Victreebel
Hidden Power Rock: 264-312 (88.88 - 105.05%) -- 25% chance to OHKO. Heatmor vs Charizard.
Flamethrower: 350-414 (115.89 - 137.08%) -- guaranteed OHKO. This is against Victreebel without sun.
SolarBeam: 118-139 (31.63 - 37.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock. Victreebel
Hidden Power Rock: 264-312 (88.88 - 105.05%) -- 25% chance to OHKO. Heatmor vs Charizard.
Flamethrower: 350-414 (115.89 - 137.08%) -- guaranteed OHKO. This is against Victreebel without sun.
Simisear (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
Basically, the only attack that can even hope to inflict enough damage to Simisear to kill it in time is Victreebels Solarbeam, and even that doesn't do enough. The best option for the core would be to Sunny Day with Victreebel while Simisear comes in and then use Solarbeam while dying. Charizard is outsped and OHKO'd most of the time by Hidden Power [Rock] after that. If Charizard is in first the same thing happens: Charizard either attacks which means that Victreebel won't outspeed Simisear or set up Sunny Day which means that Solarbeam won't KO Simisear.
Victreebels Life Orb boosted Solarbeam against Simisear:
328 Atk vs 162 Def & 291 HP (120 Base Power): 169 - 200 (58.08% - 68.73%)
Charizards Fire Blast against Simisear:
317 Atk vs 162 Def & 291 HP (120 Base Power): 126 - 149 (43.30% - 51.20%)
Simisears Flamethrower against Victreebel:
295 Atk vs 156 Def & 301 HP (95 Base Power): 386 - 456 (128.24% - 151.50%)
Simisears Hidden Power [Rock] against Charizard:
295 Atk vs 206 Def & 298 HP (70 Base Power): 292 - 344 (97.99% - 115.44%)
I could use something like Expert Belt or ROCK PLATE to guarantee the OHKO against Charizard, but I feel like Leftovers is a more viable item and a ~90% chance to win should be more than enough.
Ok so I just realized that in order for my counter to work Emboar needs to hit with three straight Stone Edges. While this is certainly doable, statistically it's only going to happen about 50% of the time, and I'd rather have a harder counter. Because of this, I'm replacing Emboar with Magmar who is much more solid.
Magmar@Eviolite
Trait:Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 SpAtk
IVs: 31/31/30/30/31/30
Calm Nature
~Flamethrower
~Hidden Power Rock
~Flame Charge
~Rest
If Charizard is out, it has to set up sun to be able to do any damage and will die anyway before getting Magmar low enough for Victreebel to finish it off if it does set up sun (if it sets up sun, Magmar will be at 38.17% min; if it just attacks, Magmar will be at 42.06% min).
If Victreebel is out, it can...
(1) set up sun, do next to nothing to Magmar (leaving it at 53.14% min), and die to Flamethrower
(2) spam Weather Ball twice (leaving Magmar at 49.86% but without sun up so Charizard can't even 2HKO due to needing a third turn to set up sun in order to turn Fire Blast into a 2HKO) and die to Flamethrower
(3) set up sun and switch out to Charizard (leaving Magmar at 75% and ensuring Charizard will die after a single Hidden Power Rock (unless it Roosts and dies to two instead) and ensuring Charizard will be unable to get Magmar low enough for Victreebel to finish it off)
(4) attack (leaving Magmar at 62.43% min), set up sun, and die to Flamethrower
(5) spam Weather Ball and switch out to Charizard (leaving Magmar at 62.43% and Charizard without Sun and unable to (a) set it up without dying to the combination of Hidden Power Rock and Solar Power recoil due to the damage from Flamethrower and (b) get Magmar low enough for Victreebel to finish it off)
(6) switch out to Charizard (leaving Magmar at 75% and Charizard without sun, essentially the equivalent of Charizard being out first and using Roost turn one for no reason)
The worst case scenario is that Victreebel is out and decides to go with option (1) or (4), as Charizard can 2HKO with Fire Blast and HP Rock doesn't always OHKO in conjunction with Solar Power recoil. In that case, Magmar can just use Flame Charge to deal enough damage to Charizard to ensure that HP Rock can KO next turn (when combined with Solar Power recoil) and ensure that Magmar outspeeds Charizard on turn 2. I believe that in option (1) you can also Rest on the turn Charizard comes in as, after Victreebel sets up sun and dies, there are only three turns of sun left and thus sun will wear off after the second "Magmar is fast asleep" turn and either with Charizard in KO range of HP Rock and Charizard needing to set up sun again to finish Magmar off or Charizard in danger of being 2HKO'd by HP Rock and needing to set up sun to 2HKO Magmar. However, whether or not I'm right about that doesn't matter as you can just win with Flame Charge + HP Rock anyway.
Emboar@Choice Scarf
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 140 Atk / 156 SpDef / 212 Spd
Adamant Nature
~Stone Edge
~Flare Blitz
~Superpower
~Wild Charge
Emboar takes 74.24-87.26% from Victreebel's +2 Solarbeam (meaning it cannot OHKO) and 37.4-43.77% from one at +0 (meaning that, yes, there is a one in 256 chance that Victreebel will get two straight max damage roles and 2HKO but that is 32 times less likely than me getting a crit on my first Stone Edge and winning anyway), which is the most any of them can do to it since Charizard is outsped and OHKO'd by Stone Edge which does 175.08% min.
If Charizard is out and attacks, Fire Blast does 32.41% max, Stone Edge OHKO's, and Victreebel has the option of using a 50 power unboosted Weather Ball, setting up sun and doing not enough with Solarbeam, or doing nothing and dying.
If Charizard is out and sets up the sun, the worst case scenario I outlined above happens, but it doesn't matter because Charizard is outsped and KO'd and Victreebell is 2HKO'd by Stone Edge (50.17-59.14%) while failing to OHKO at +2 or 2HKO (255 times out of 256, the same amount of the time I believe a 100% accurate move hit in Gen I) at +0 with Solarbeam.
If Victreebel is out and attacks, it isn't going to do enough in the two turns it requires to kill it with Stone Edge, and Charizard is still outsped. Even if it sets up sun it won't be able to do anything to stop me.
Magmar@Eviolite
Trait:Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 SpAtk
IVs: 31/31/30/30/31/30
Calm Nature
~Flamethrower
~Hidden Power Rock
~Flame Charge
~Rest
Flamethrower (no sun) vs. Victreebel: 102.32% min
Hidden Power Rock vs. Charizard: 77.85-92.62% (enough to always OHKO after two turns of Solar Power recoil and sometimes after one)
Flamethrower (no sun) vs. Charizard: 19.8-23.15% (enough to put it low enough for Hidden Power Rock to KO due to Solar Power recoil if Charizard sets up sun on the same turn)
Flame Charge (sun) vs. Charizard: 14.09-17.11% (and gets Magmar to 330 speed, two more than Charizards 328)
Rest is just there because this is a specially defensive Pokemon who seems like it would appreciate recovery, Magmar has no other form of recovery, and I only need three moveslots to beat this core.
Charizard Fire Blast vs. Magmar: 13.77-16.47% (5-6 hits to KO)
Charizard Solar Power and Sun Boosted Fire Blast vs. Magmar: 31.14-36.83% (3 hits to KO after Stealth Rock and after Sun is set up)
Charizard SolarBeam vs. Magmar: 9.28-11.08% (5-6 hits to KO)
Charizard Solar Power Boosted SolarBeam vs. Magmar: 13.77-16.47% (5-6 hits to KO)
Victreebel Weather Ball vs. Magmar: 10.78-12.57% (6-7 hits to KO)
Victreebel Sun Boosted Weather Ball vs. Magmar: 15.57-18.26% (5 hits to KO)
Victreebel +1 Weather Ball vs. Magmar: 15.87-18.56% (5 hits to KO)
Victreebel SolarBeam vs. Magmar: 18.56-21.86% (4-5 hits to KO)
Hidden Power Rock vs. Charizard: 77.85-92.62% (enough to always OHKO after two turns of Solar Power recoil and sometimes after one)
Flamethrower (no sun) vs. Charizard: 19.8-23.15% (enough to put it low enough for Hidden Power Rock to KO due to Solar Power recoil if Charizard sets up sun on the same turn)
Flame Charge (sun) vs. Charizard: 14.09-17.11% (and gets Magmar to 330 speed, two more than Charizards 328)
Rest is just there because this is a specially defensive Pokemon who seems like it would appreciate recovery, Magmar has no other form of recovery, and I only need three moveslots to beat this core.
Charizard Fire Blast vs. Magmar: 13.77-16.47% (5-6 hits to KO)
Charizard Solar Power and Sun Boosted Fire Blast vs. Magmar: 31.14-36.83% (3 hits to KO after Stealth Rock and after Sun is set up)
Charizard SolarBeam vs. Magmar: 9.28-11.08% (5-6 hits to KO)
Charizard Solar Power Boosted SolarBeam vs. Magmar: 13.77-16.47% (5-6 hits to KO)
Victreebel Weather Ball vs. Magmar: 10.78-12.57% (6-7 hits to KO)
Victreebel Sun Boosted Weather Ball vs. Magmar: 15.57-18.26% (5 hits to KO)
Victreebel +1 Weather Ball vs. Magmar: 15.87-18.56% (5 hits to KO)
Victreebel SolarBeam vs. Magmar: 18.56-21.86% (4-5 hits to KO)
If Charizard is out, it has to set up sun to be able to do any damage and will die anyway before getting Magmar low enough for Victreebel to finish it off if it does set up sun (if it sets up sun, Magmar will be at 38.17% min; if it just attacks, Magmar will be at 42.06% min).
If Victreebel is out, it can...
(1) set up sun, do next to nothing to Magmar (leaving it at 53.14% min), and die to Flamethrower
(2) spam Weather Ball twice (leaving Magmar at 49.86% but without sun up so Charizard can't even 2HKO due to needing a third turn to set up sun in order to turn Fire Blast into a 2HKO) and die to Flamethrower
(3) set up sun and switch out to Charizard (leaving Magmar at 75% and ensuring Charizard will die after a single Hidden Power Rock (unless it Roosts and dies to two instead) and ensuring Charizard will be unable to get Magmar low enough for Victreebel to finish it off)
(4) attack (leaving Magmar at 62.43% min), set up sun, and die to Flamethrower
(5) spam Weather Ball and switch out to Charizard (leaving Magmar at 62.43% and Charizard without Sun and unable to (a) set it up without dying to the combination of Hidden Power Rock and Solar Power recoil due to the damage from Flamethrower and (b) get Magmar low enough for Victreebel to finish it off)
(6) switch out to Charizard (leaving Magmar at 75% and Charizard without sun, essentially the equivalent of Charizard being out first and using Roost turn one for no reason)
The worst case scenario is that Victreebel is out and decides to go with option (1) or (4), as Charizard can 2HKO with Fire Blast and HP Rock doesn't always OHKO in conjunction with Solar Power recoil. In that case, Magmar can just use Flame Charge to deal enough damage to Charizard to ensure that HP Rock can KO next turn (when combined with Solar Power recoil) and ensure that Magmar outspeeds Charizard on turn 2. I believe that in option (1) you can also Rest on the turn Charizard comes in as, after Victreebel sets up sun and dies, there are only three turns of sun left and thus sun will wear off after the second "Magmar is fast asleep" turn and either with Charizard in KO range of HP Rock and Charizard needing to set up sun again to finish Magmar off or Charizard in danger of being 2HKO'd by HP Rock and needing to set up sun to 2HKO Magmar. However, whether or not I'm right about that doesn't matter as you can just win with Flame Charge + HP Rock anyway.
Emboar@Choice Scarf
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 140 Atk / 156 SpDef / 212 Spd
Adamant Nature
~Stone Edge
~Flare Blitz
~Superpower
~Wild Charge
Emboar takes 74.24-87.26% from Victreebel's +2 Solarbeam (meaning it cannot OHKO) and 37.4-43.77% from one at +0 (meaning that, yes, there is a one in 256 chance that Victreebel will get two straight max damage roles and 2HKO but that is 32 times less likely than me getting a crit on my first Stone Edge and winning anyway), which is the most any of them can do to it since Charizard is outsped and OHKO'd by Stone Edge which does 175.08% min.
If Charizard is out and attacks, Fire Blast does 32.41% max, Stone Edge OHKO's, and Victreebel has the option of using a 50 power unboosted Weather Ball, setting up sun and doing not enough with Solarbeam, or doing nothing and dying.
If Charizard is out and sets up the sun, the worst case scenario I outlined above happens, but it doesn't matter because Charizard is outsped and KO'd and Victreebell is 2HKO'd by Stone Edge (50.17-59.14%) while failing to OHKO at +2 or 2HKO (255 times out of 256, the same amount of the time I believe a 100% accurate move hit in Gen I) at +0 with Solarbeam.
If Victreebel is out and attacks, it isn't going to do enough in the two turns it requires to kill it with Stone Edge, and Charizard is still outsped. Even if it sets up sun it won't be able to do anything to stop me.
Didn't want to use a Fire-type, didn't want to use a Dragon-type, didn't want to use a 2-pokemon core.
Lunatone @ Rindo Berry
160 HP/64 SpAtk/108 SpDef/176 Spe
Timid / Levitate
Rock Polish
Psychic
Hidden Power [Rock]
Baton Pass
Best case scenario for either opposing pokemon is using Sunny Day as Lunatone switches in. 2nd turn, they hit with Solarbeam or Fire Blast. Rock Polish after surviving due to the Rindo berry, then outspeed and 1hko each with your stab move. Baton Pass out after fucking them up.
Calcs:
Modest LO Victreebel SolarBeam (rindo factored in): (73.83% - 87.23%) (1 HP left after max damage roll)
Timid Charizard +1 SolarBeam (rindo factored in): (54.83% - 64.80%)
Timid Charizard +1 Fire Blast: (61.68% - 72.59%)
HP Rock vs. Charizard: (120.81% - 142.28%)
Psychic vs. Victreebel: (100.33% - 118.27%)
Lunatone @ Rindo Berry
160 HP/64 SpAtk/108 SpDef/176 Spe
Timid / Levitate
Rock Polish
Psychic
Hidden Power [Rock]
Baton Pass
Best case scenario for either opposing pokemon is using Sunny Day as Lunatone switches in. 2nd turn, they hit with Solarbeam or Fire Blast. Rock Polish after surviving due to the Rindo berry, then outspeed and 1hko each with your stab move. Baton Pass out after fucking them up.
Calcs:
Modest LO Victreebel SolarBeam (rindo factored in): (73.83% - 87.23%) (1 HP left after max damage roll)
Timid Charizard +1 SolarBeam (rindo factored in): (54.83% - 64.80%)
Timid Charizard +1 Fire Blast: (61.68% - 72.59%)
HP Rock vs. Charizard: (120.81% - 142.28%)
Psychic vs. Victreebel: (100.33% - 118.27%)
The Mighty Duck
Golduck (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 144 SAtk / 224 SDef / 140 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Psychic
- Protect
Golduck (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 144 SAtk / 224 SDef / 140 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Psychic
- Protect
Golduck can actually counter this core. Since I'm lazy and bad with English I'll just post battle replay and a few needed calcs.
The Replay
Calcs:
144 SpAtk Expert Belt Golduck Surf vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Charizard: 115,77% - 136,24%
100% chance to OHKO
252 SpAtk Charizard SolarBeam vs 0 HP/224 SpDef Golduck: 71,76% - 85,05%
2 hits to KO
252 SpAtk Charizard Fire Blast vs 0 HP/224 SpDef Golduck: 26,91% - 31,89%
4 hits to KO
144 SpAtk Expert Belt Golduck Ice Beam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Victreebel: 100% - 118,21%
100% chance to OHKO
And for lulz:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Victreebel SolarBeam vs 0 HP/224 SpDef Golduck: 145,51% - 171,43%
100% chance to OHKO
So, the worst case scenario is switching into Charizards 2 turn Solarbeam, which does 85% max. And in the turn I took Solarbeam, Charizard is OHKOed by Surf. Victreebel is outsped and OHKOed by Ice Beam, while it can't do anything back. So yeah, guess that works. You judge, people ^^
If you switch in on Victreebel as it uses Sunny Day, it will outspeed and OHKO with Solarbeam next turn. So unfortunately, unless someone proves me otherwise, Golduck does not counter the core.
EDIT: There's ALWAYS something I forget when thinking about these cores. Thanks Django.
I should probably start thinking before I post while watching a video.
EDIT: There's ALWAYS something I forget when thinking about these cores. Thanks Django.
I should probably start thinking before I post while watching a video.
aww yeah.
used Honko's calc. Assuming max damage for core, and minimum for me =[
Lampent @ Eviolite
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Pain Split
- Trick Room
Lampent takes this core down, and then shows then how to really use Fire attacks. With Flash Fire, Charizard's Fire Blast does mute, and SolarBeam is weak, even with Solar Power boost. With Hidden Power Rock, Lampent can take down Charizard. If Charizard wants to Roost stall, then Trick Room lets Lampent go first, and KO before Roost. Victreebel is also in the same boat, as Lampent won't let it use Growth, and Solarbeam does poop, while Flamethower can OHKO. If Lampent is weakened anything, use Pain Split and heal up.
I'm assuming Sunny Day is up, and Lampent is at 33.52% following situation 1.
I tried to be it look nice. = )
used Honko's calc. Assuming max damage for core, and minimum for me =[
Lampent @ Eviolite
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Pain Split
- Trick Room
Lampent takes this core down, and then shows then how to really use Fire attacks. With Flash Fire, Charizard's Fire Blast does mute, and SolarBeam is weak, even with Solar Power boost. With Hidden Power Rock, Lampent can take down Charizard. If Charizard wants to Roost stall, then Trick Room lets Lampent go first, and KO before Roost. Victreebel is also in the same boat, as Lampent won't let it use Growth, and Solarbeam does poop, while Flamethower can OHKO. If Lampent is weakened anything, use Pain Split and heal up.
Now if Charizard is in, it can either set up Sunny Day or predict the switch-in and use Solarbeam, but that takes a turn to set-up so that's even worse then setting up Sunny day. [ :P]
- Turn 1: Lampent comes in on Stealth Rock, and Charizard uses Sunny Day. 100% - 25 = 75% = Lampent | Charizard = 100%
- Turn 2: Charizard uses Solarbeam (SolarBeam: 57-67 (17.64 - 20.74%)). Lampent uses Hidden Power Rock (Hidden Power Rock: 224-268 (75.16 - 89.93%)). 75 - 20.74 = 54.26% = Lampent | Charizard = 100 - 75.16 = 24.84 %
- Turn 3:
- Situation 1: Charizard attacks again and Lampent KOs with HP Rock.
Charizard uses Solarbeam (SolarBeam: 57-67 (17.64 - 20.74%)). Lampent KOs with Hidden Power Rock (Hidden Power Rock: 224-268 (75.16 - 89.93%))
54.26-20.74 = 33.52% = Lampent | Charizard = KO = 24.84-75.16
- Situation 2: Charizard uses Roost, and I use HP Rock again.
Charizard uses Roost (loses Flying-type). Lampent uses Hidden Power Rock (Hidden Power Rock: 112-134 (37.58 - 44.96%))
Lampent = 54.26% | Charizard = 29.88 = 24.84 + 50 - 44.96
*Now Charizard can stall with Roost, so if it does so use Trick Room to outspeed and KO with Hidden Power Rock*
*I know that didn't account for Solar Power recoil, but that doesn't matter too much anyway*
I'm assuming Sunny Day is up, and Lampent is at 33.52% following situation 1.
- Turn 1: Victreebel uses Solarbeam (SolarBeam: 76-90 (23.52 - 27.86%)). Lampent uses Flamethower (Flamethrower: 446-528 (147.68 - 174.83%)).
*Note that Flamethower is boosted by Sunny Day. Heres an unboosted Flamethower: Flamethrower: 300-354 (99.33 - 117.21%).
I tried to be it look nice. = )