Crisis in CK9++ City [Serial Killer Wins]

Jalmont wagon.
ohhh
I read your post as "day one"
I didn't try to save jalmont because he had SK equity. I strongly felt that he wasn't on the wolf team tho (hence me saying "jalmont sk if anything") due to some amount of DADV and jalmont's tone.
(something that I probably wouldn't have done if I was the sk once again)
you can complain about hypotheticals all you want but you're gonna be complaining a lot because I can't talk about being a serial killer without bringing up hypotheticals, since I'm y'know not
 

HeaLnDeaL

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Jalmont wagon.
It's not like I wanted to lynch Jalmont specifically. Day 1 and Day 2 I very much wanted an explosion gone. Day 1 I defended against jalmont. Day 2 no one wanted explosion lynched still, and the lynch was between two townies (heury and jalmont) (again after I wanted the scum an explosion gone and no one would listen to me), so I just had to choose a side, and at first I chose to lynch Heury. (Also note that in the middle of this day, explosion got subbed out for UTO, which sorta made them off the table( Heury claimed, I was still notably suspicious because it wasn't a confirmed claim from a mechanical point of the game and it seemed like survival, but I still wasn't going to risk lynching our bodyguard. Also, on day 1, I think smogon was the only other person to vote an explosion, and he did it far after I did. We didn't get any more traction on it though.

Last note about jalmont, he prolly played a bit more than TBZ did, but not much. I'm kinda pissed at him too for us being in the current situation rn. When we have multiple townies just not try, it becomes a less enjoyable game and much harder to solve.

I think overall it's really false for smogon to say that I didn't have a towny mindset and that he did, especially for him to just say that without real reasoning, which just looks lazy. He was townread heavily day 1, but he actually met a notable amount of resistance as the thread developed; iirc cancer thought he was scum for a while.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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And I still really can't wrap my head around the idea that smogon wouldn't have been following all of the format/mechanic deducing posts in the thread, many of them posted by panic. smogon just saying "oops, I don't understand the game's format" is kind of a blatant level of lying. Many posts about the format were made, if he was town and legit didn't understand the format he would have asked people like panic enough questions until he did understand.
 
I think overall it's really false for smogon to say that I didn't have a towny mindset and that he did, especially for him to just say that without real reasoning, which just looks lazy. He was townread heavily day 1, but he actually met a notable amount of resistance as the thread developed; iirc cancer thought he was scum for a while.
it's not possible for you to have had a towny mindset, cut the crap
And I still really can't wrap my head around the idea that smogon wouldn't have been following all of the format/mechanic deducing posts in the thread, many of them posted by panic. smogon just saying "oops, I don't understand the game's format" is kind of a blatant level of lying. Many posts about the format were made, if he was town and legit didn't understand the format he would have asked people like panic enough questions until he did understand.
I asked questions when they mattered
I skimmed over the bullcrap "if we have x and y we're in a b roll worlds" because that crap doesn't matter until it's confirmed that we have x and y. When things did matter, I asked: see me asking if heury was scum, classic example
if someone is figuring out the setup for me, I don't have to, so I won't. I literally said as much early day 1.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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it's not possible for you to have had a towny mindset, cut the crap

I asked questions when they mattered
I skimmed over the bullcrap "if we have x and y we're in a b roll worlds" because that crap doesn't matter until it's confirmed that we have x and y. When things did matter, I asked: see me asking if heury was scum, classic example
if someone is figuring out the setup for me, I don't have to, so I won't. I literally said as much early day 1.
when did you ask if heury was scum? All I see is you asking to lynch him, no discussion on what his alignment actually was.

Also at that point in the game, it was also a question not even of just the setup but on the lack of a counterclaim. You wanted to lynch heury after heury had a PR claim that no one countered. You just don't do that kind of stuff as town.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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Even if someone as clearly invested as you in the thread didn't understand mechanics (which itself seems unlikely), you should have at least understood claims/counterclaims.
 
when did you ask if heury was scum? All I see is you asking to lynch him, no discussion on what his alignment actually was.

Also at that point in the game, it was also a question not even of just the setup but on the lack of a counterclaim. You wanted to lynch heury after heury had a PR claim that no one countered. You just don't do that kind of stuff as town.
hey
when you don't know if the setup is guaranteed to have a bodyguard
a bodyguard claim doesn't mean crap
I feel like you're just bringing up old talking points that I already stomped into the ground because you don't actually have any real defense
Even if someone as clearly invested as you in the thread didn't understand mechanics (which itself seems unlikely), you should have at least understood claims/counterclaims.
I understand that you don't lynch a bodyguard claim and I was one of the people who said we shouldn't lynch him when he first claimed
but after he was told to bodyguard cancerous and cancerous died anyway, the only logical conclusion I saw was that heury had been lying.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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zzz, I feel like this is a really big point, and you don't keep stomping it into the ground, all you do is try to ignore or dismiss it without actually addressing it. you keep pounding your chest trying to say "I'm right and heal is wrong because I said so!"

The logic is very clear. You wanted a final day with 3 unconfirmed towns of you, me, and tbz to better your odds today, and in order to do that you had to find a way to lynch a confirmed town. If I was SK, I would have sat there and just salivated at your attempt to lynch a confirmed town and would have supported the move. But no, I turned your lynch suggestion down as fast as I could.

Even yesterday you spent time shading me without even pointing to a single reason, and you barely contributed because you wanted to lower your profile. Yesterday you were 100% setting your end game up instead of trying to scum hunt at all.
 
No. I have a question I want both of you to answer first.

Out of all 13 players that have been in this game, which three do you think are most capable of playing a perfect SK game?
Stupid question, I don't know any of the players that well and serial killer is really hard to play well to begin with

Who is most capable of winning as sk?
Obviously heal, then maybe jalmont and you I guess
 
(yesterday meaning the day in the game, not the day irl)
You're being really insistent on me trying to lynch heury. I don't think you can in good faith that was me trying to lynch him at all. There wasn't even a vote for Pete's sake
You're glossing over the information I'm providing in order to actually make it seem like you had a point.
Calling it shading yesterday is also very much not in good faith. If you can't bring anything new to the table at the very least please don't recycle fake arguments that I already established as such
 

HeaLnDeaL

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HeaLnDeaL Waiting on your answer.
I don't know a lot of people in this game, there's been overlap with past games but tbh this is uh a "lesser names game." If apricity was in, he'd definitely be the most capable serial killer. I fully disagree with smogon that jalmont would be good SK. I think jalmont would be near the bottom of the list due to his activity coupled with his general grumpy attitude, and I don't see that changing across alignments.

I think Cancerous would probably be near the top of my list, but I fully admit that this is because he's one of the bigger names, and this is coupled with the part where he lied to town about his role and still got everyone to believe it. I think smogon is obviously a top contender too, but this is largely because of what he did this game and I can't really strike it from my memory. He beautifully set up with his position from the beginning.

I say this as no offense to panic, but I'd prolly only put you in the middle (maybe even middle-bottom) of the list. Even as town you weren't viewed by a lot of people as super towny until you literally got mason confirmed, so I don't think you'd be able to fake town for so long if you didn't show it naturally.

I'd put myself maybe near the middle. In full transparency, what I consider my best scum performance was one where I was paired with an absolutely annoying scumbuddy and so I was a really active member of his lynch and bussed him hard against his will, which made me the last scum standing but gave me tons of town credit to basically get away with all of it for the rest of the game. From there it was a solo game of literally just guessing which townie had which role and killing them at the best time, and I was able to get to the end with two townies who trusted me more than they trusted themselves. But I think the biggest reasons why this game paid off for me was that 1) I was genuinely pissed off at how my scum buddy was acting, 2) this anger made it easy for me to fight against him in the thread and 3) I looked very good after the lynch because of the bussing. As a serial killer, bussing isn't an option and I don't think I'd be able to get very far. Oh, and after searching for an finding the thread, another point that I forgot is that I started out as town (which means I started out the game with a town role card), but scum suicide converted me in the very early game on n1 , basically turning it into a 6 person game, where I then bussed my scumbuddy because he was the most annoying noob ever. That game also lasted only like 7 pages.

tldr I have some solo experience through being paired with someone I hated and bussed against their will, but I have no real serial killer experience.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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So, top 3 I would give to Cancerous, Smogon by default due to this game, and then uhhhh.... third idk, it's hard. Maybe Fenrir because he's so even and calm? I mean if he didn't slank early on quite as much I think Fenrir had real potential.
 
You're forgetting that the sk needs to avoid drawing the nightkill as well
they have to play like an anti-pr where they're in that same space of too towny to lynch and not towny enough to nightkill
Let's argue about something even more irrelevant than hypotheticals smile
 

HeaLnDeaL

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You're forgetting that the sk needs to avoid drawing the nightkill as well
they have to play like an anti-pr where they're in that same space of too towny to lynch and not towny enough to nightkill
Let's argue about something even more irrelevant than hypotheticals smile
ye and I think cancerous fits that to a T, then you, then fenrir. :rolling_eyes:

jalmont I think is cursed with being unable to assert his towniness enough to avoid the lynch. he can avoid the nightkill sure but not the lynch. tbz is in the same boat.

you, smogon, prolly are one who has trouble avoiding the nk, and yet you sit here claiming to be a towny that avoided two nk's every night...
 
ye and I think cancerous fits that to a T, then you, then fenrir. :rolling_eyes:

jalmont I think is cursed with being unable to assert his towniness enough to avoid the lynch. he can avoid the nightkill sure but not the lynch. tbz is in the same boat.

you, smogon, prolly are one who has trouble avoiding the nk, and yet you sit here claiming to be a towny that avoided two nk's every night...
I was literally threadspewed [not wolf] so me not getting nightkilled was on the wolf team. I think I was probably a viable NK option this game since I didn't overtly out myself as not PR at any point before the massclaim afaik
I wouldn't say exactly I was trying to get nightkilled, but I would have been much more valuable to town as a vt flip than someone who sussed two PRs (and two wolves admittedly) and who was pretty wimpy about saving his town reads from the noose
cancerous will never avoid getting nightkilled with how he plays. He literally brought all attention onto himself with janky posts right from the start. I wouldn't call that perfect SK play by any stretch.
I may just have a higher opinion of jalmont's play than you do
he played a pretty good game when he was willing to help fill up on NSM (and actually I think he did get lynched because he asked everyone to claim to him (it was ootc) but that's cause NSM is pretty noobish) where he sounded super towny and he was very much an aggressive leader of town so I think it comes down to whether or not jalmont is willing to apply himself and this game he just wasn't cause he doesn't enjoy NOC games I guess
thanks for helping fill the game tho jalmont
 

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