Cross Evolution (now with Viability Rankings!)

Yup. I wonder if there are any other broken mons like that :P
Eh. I did a small research on random ones that can be good:

So, Gyarados is more to create a fast offensive mon with an usable Sp. Def boost. Gains Flying type (Which kinda sucks defensively but eh). Gains access to Dragon Dance, which is really nice. Gives Moxie and Intimidate.

Lickitung ===> Gyarados: Stats:165/170/99/105/155/31 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Normal/Flying
Axew ===> Gyarados: Stats:121/202/84/75/120/58 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Dragon/Flying
Scyther ===> Gyarados: Stats:145/225/104/100/160/106 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Bug/Flying
Sneasel ===> Gyarados: Stats:130/210/79/80/155/116 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Dark/Flying

Mantyke
===> Gyarados: Stats:120/135/74/105/200/51 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Water/Flying
Archen ===> Gyarados: Stats:130/227/69/119/125/71 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Rock/Flying
Doduo
===> Gyarados: Stats:110/200/69/80/115/76 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Normal/Flying
Golett ===> Gyarados: Stats:134/189/74/80/130/36 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Ground/Flying
Gligar ===> Gyarados: Stats:140/190/129/80/145/86 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Ground/Flying

Munchlax ===> Gyarados: Stats:210/200/64/85/165/6 Abilities:Intimidate/Moxie Type:Normal/Flying


Just some ideas


Gyarados' Counterpart. Boostings are 75/45/59/110/70/1 if I did the calcs correctly. No new type, has rather meh abilities (Competitive/Marvel Scale/Cute Charm). Access to Recover and Scald are the ones mostly worth mentioning. Creates bulky stalls and tank offensive.

Misdreavus ===> Milotic: Stats:135/105/119/175/155/86 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Ghost
Ferroseed ===> Milotic: Stats:119/95/150/114/156/11 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Grass/Steel
Mantyke ===> Milotic: Stats:120/65/109/150/190/51 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Water/Flying
Solosis ===> Milotic: Stats:120/75/99/195/120/21 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Psychic

Wailmer ===> Milotic: Stats:205/115/94/160/105/61 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Water
Slowpoke ===> Milotic: Stats:165/110/124/130/110/16 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Water/Psychic
Bronzor ===> Milotic: Stats:132/69/145/114/156/24 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Steel/Psychic
Nosepass ===> Milotic: Stats:105/90/194/135/160/31 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Rock
Chingling ===> Milotic: Stats:120/75/109/155/120/46 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Psychic (Cosmic + Stored Power)
Frillish ===> Milotic: Stats:130/85/109/155/155/41 Abilities:Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm Type:Water/Ghost
 
So, Gyarados is more to create a fast offensive mon with an usable Sp. Def boost. Gains Flying type (Which kinda sucks defensively but eh). Gains access to Dragon Dance, which is really nice. Gives Moxie and Intimidate.
just going to point out a few things about this, Gyarados' Speed base stat boost is only +1 so the only real way it creates fast offensive 'mons is through Dragon Dance. Flying isn't really a bad defensive typing from my experience in Cross Evolution since it does resist a very prominent offensive typing in Fighting, though the weakness to Ice is a bit unfortunate thanks to the prevalence of things like Sneasel and the Rock weakness, like in most metas, is generally a pain. The more important thing to point out regarding Gyarados adding a Flying-type is that it doesn't come with a good Flying STAB move; it has Bounce which has a nice chance of paralysis, but it's also fairly inaccurate and the fact that it executes over two turns generally isn't preferable. in addition, +75/+80 special bulk isn't just "usable"; I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure it's the highest boost to special bulk for any possible cross evolution (even higher than Milotic which you've already covered)

all of these factors combined make Gligar far and away the best choice for cross-evolving into Gyarados; its starting defensive stats (65/105/65) complement Gyarados' defensive gains (+75/+24/+80) very well in conjunction with Intimidate, not to mention comes pre-loaded with a solid Flying STAB in Acrobatics which, while it requires Gligar to run itemless in order to make full usage of it, is generally better than what Gyarados, or even many other potential candidates for evolving into Gyarados, can offer up, and with base 190 attack (Gligar's 75 plus Gyarados' +115) it doesn't really need to hold a boosting item to be threatening offensively. Gligar also has reliable recovery in Roost (another critical lack in Gyarados' movepool if you'd choose to use it for defensive purposes) plus three very useful utility moves in U-turn, Knock Off, and Stealth Rock, which make Gligar very suitable for the role of a tank or utility pivot. Gligar's base Speed of 85 is still decent enough to allow it to run viable Dragon Dance sets even with Gyarados' pitiful Speed gain; I'd recommend a bulky Dragon Dance set as it's been very useful for me during the times I've used it, and while offensive Dragon Dance sets might be a bit outclassed by other Gligar evolutions such as Gligar x Barbaracle (Shell Smash) it still might be worth a shot.

I'd honestly consider Gligar x Gyarados to be the equivalent of Ubers Primal Groudon; while it doesn't exert the same impact on the metagame as Primal Groudon does with regards to rendering other Pokémon (aside from those in direct competition for its slot) unviable, its support and offensive sets are capable of improving nearly any team to the point that unless you're running hyper offense there's very little reason not to run it. While other Gyarados evolutions such as Scyther may be good, Gligar just outdoes them in so many ways that I'd say its only real competition for its slot is if Gligar would rather benefit from evolving into another Pokémon (Barbaracle being a particularly good choice for an offensive set, I'm not really sure about others). To put this into context, Gligar x Gyarados would near-completely outclass Primal Groudon if not for Primal Groudon's immunity to Water, less cost for running Thunder Wave (Gligar x Gyarados gets it too but its support sets can't always afford to run it), access to powerful or otherwise useful Fire moves like Lava Plume, and the fact that Gligar and Primal Groudon complement each other pretty well typing-wise (namely Gligar's immunity to Ground and PDon's immunity to Water, each of which the other is weak to).

tl;dr golett is bad don't use it

also the milotic part I mostly agree with but I'd list Chinchou and Spritzee and unlist Chingling and maybe Solosis (idk haven't really used it)
 
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Might be irrelevant, but will these meta ever get a Viability Ranking? with 16 pages of discussion and a sizable playerbase I'm surprised it doesn't have one already. It could help players get into this meta and see the potential evolution options easier.
 
Might be irrelevant, but will these meta ever get a Viability Ranking? with 16 pages of discussion and a sizable playerbase I'm surprised it doesn't have one already. It could help players get into this meta and see the potential evolution options easier.
there's a VR in production but progress on it is going pretty slowly, not much work has been done on it so far
 
tl;dr golett is bad don't use it

also the milotic part I mostly agree with but I'd list Chinchou and Spritzee and unlist Chingling and maybe Solosis (idk haven't really used it)
Agreed with what you said about Gyarados tbh. As for Golett, eh, it was really juat a random thing that I thought maybe it would work.

Chingling is there just to Cosmic Power then Stored Power, out of all chingling evos I thing this works the best. And Solosis has a high Sp. Atk and ok defs (You can use Abra for same Sp. Atk but more fragile and faster). Chinchou isn't there bc I'm pretty sure everyone knows about it at this point. Haven't tryed Spritzee tho.
 
Agreed with what you said about Gyarados tbh. As for Golett, eh, it was really juat a random thing that I thought maybe it would work.

Chingling is there just to Cosmic Power then Stored Power, out of all chingling evos I thing this works the best. And Solosis has a high Sp. Atk and ok defs (You can use Abra for same Sp. Atk but more fragile and faster). Chinchou isn't there bc I'm pretty sure everyone knows about it at this point. Haven't tryed Spritzee tho.
RestTalk Marvel Scale Spritzotic is an absolute b e a s t. can 6-0 unprepared teams. rest/talk/cm/moonblast is a hella good set, fairy is solid both offensive and defensive. slurpuff is another option, mostly outclassed but a bit faster and has better coverage options if you wanna take a more offensive route, like subcm or something.

edit: tournament is in the queue and waiting for approval! lets get this vr going ladies and gentlemen

to generate some discussion, how should the rankings be organized? should we have one for bases and one for evolutions? or just one that lists both together (ie i nominate scyther for s rank vs doublade x dragonite for S rank)? Are we going with the standard S/A+/A/A-/B+ rankings? are we gonna do Tier 1, tier 2, etc like dubs? I think standard letters with all mons listed together (so milotic x chinchou would be separate from milotic x spritzee and also separate from chansey x chinchou).
 
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since the same Pokémon can have wildly different viability based on what Pokémon it evolves into, I think the most comprehensive way of constructing a VR for Cross Evolution would be to structure it similarly to a sets VR, with a "primary rank" assigned to that Pokémon's best evolution option and have its other viable options assigned lower ranks (or in cases with Pokémon with two or more evolution options that are on par, the same rank) to correspond more accurately with their viability. that said I can see that being a pain to maintain, so a solution like what Mix and Mega does has merit as well

as far as what to use to denote the ranks specifically, it doesn't really matter but I'd say go with letter ranks since those are the most widely used
 
since the same Pokémon can have wildly different viability based on what Pokémon it evolves into, I think the most comprehensive way of constructing a VR for Cross Evolution would be to structure it similarly to a sets VR, with a "primary rank" assigned to that Pokémon's best evolution option and have its other viable options assigned lower ranks (or in cases with Pokémon with two or more evolution options that are on par, the same rank) to correspond more accurately with their viability. that said I can see that being a pain to maintain, so a solution like what Mix and Mega does has merit as well

as far as what to use to denote the ranks specifically, it doesn't really matter but I'd say go with letter ranks since those are the most widely used
100% agree with you, thats the best way to go. just gonna take a lotta time to maintain.
 
Cross Evolution Viability Ranks

Special thanks to lightninging sin(pi) FALCOWNPAUNCH! Stocke OriolesFan52 for their help
(in alphabetical order)

S-rank
S+
Gligar (Gyarados, Hariyama, Barbaracle)

S
Magmar (Serperior, Gallade, Nidoking/queen)
Scyther (Breloom, Crawdaunt, Excadrill, Escavalier, Gyarados, Mienshao)

A-rank
A+

Doublade (Dragonite, Flygon)
Munchlax (Quagsire, Arcanine, Hitmonlee, Breloom)
Sneasel (Breloom, Aurorus, Crawdaunt)
Spritzee (Milotic)

A
Chinchou (Milotic)
Magneton (Vivillon, Flygon, Hydreigon)
Rhydon (Beedrill, Gallade)


A-
Arceus-Normal
Electabuzz (Greninja, Vivillon, Nidoking/queen)
Finneon (Milotic, Chansey)
Groudon-Primal
Honedge (Hitmontop)
Pumpkaboo-Super (Chansey)
Salamence-Mega
Seadra (Vivillon)
Tangela (Volcarona, Chansey)
Xerneas

B-rank
B+

Ho-Oh
Klang (Gallade)
Kyogre-Primal
Litleo (Noivern, Exeggutor/Sunflora)
Porygon2 (Gardevoir)

B
Lucario-Mega
Squirtle (Chansey)
Taillow (Sylveon)

B-
Archen (Hitmonlee)
Darkrai
Rufflet (Hitmonlee)

C-rank
C+

Cranidos (Whimsicott, Hitmonlee)
Deoxys-Speed
Doduo (Linoone)
Pancham (Whimsicott)

C
Ditto
Kyurem-White
Staryu (Jolteon)

C-
Genesect
Golbat (Reuniclus)
Krabby (Beartic, Ninjask)
Hippopotas (Hitmontop)

D-rank
Gengar-Mega
Groudon
Houndour (Exeggutor/Sunflora)
Kyogre
Larvesta (Leafeon)
Shaymin-Sky

TBD:
While these Pokémon are viable, they're not properly ranked yet.
Abra (Espeon, Sylveon)
Axew (Bibarel)
Deoxys-Attack
Dusclops (Gallade, Clefable, Chesnaught)
Ferroseed (Whimsicott, Milotic, Chansey)
Frillish (Umbreon, Accelgor)
Haunter (Vivillon)
Lickitung (Chansey, lots more)
Misdreavus (Lucario)
Murkrow (Fletchinder)
Omanyte (Sylveon, Swoobat)
Pawniard (Barbaracle)
Porygon (Noivern, Milotic, Chansey)
Tirtouga (Hitmonlee)
Togetic (Clefable)
 
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I'd add Omanyte and Tirtouga for solid Shell Smash users somewhere (I mentioned some sets above), as well as Solosis and Duosion for high Spa that is not fragile like Abra. Hauter-Vivillon might go somewhere as well. But overall, really great rankings
 
I'd add Omanyte and Tirtouga for solid Shell Smash users somewhere (I mentioned some sets above), as well as Solosis and Duosion for high Spa that is not fragile like Abra. Hauter-Vivillon might go somewhere as well. But overall, really great rankings
Cross Evolution has a huge range of viable mons because there are many possibilities when mix and matching base mons - cross evolutions. This VR isn't even close to covering them all, so if something's missing, please make your nom.
With that said, not sure about Solosis and Duosion since they're still frail AND slow, but adding the rest to TBD rank. Misdreavus as well deserves a place in the VR.
 
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Special thanks to lightninging sin(pi) FALCOWNPAUNCH! Stocke OriolesFan52 for their help
(in alphabetical order)
alphabetical order my ass we all know im your favorite dsm.

so that this isnt a shit post, heres a nom:

Magmar should have vivillion and gallade listed as potential evolutions. Not only that, but it should be S imo. The sheer variety of its possible sets is amazing, ranging from wallbreaker to sweeper, both physical and special. Mag x Gall has a very respectable spdef stat, and can easily get off a belly drum versus stall/defensive balance and even against offense with basic voltturn support. From there, it can go to town, as its dual stabs (some combination of drain punch/fire punch/close combat/flare blitz) and knock off have fantastic coverage. Common stall/balance staples like doublade x dragonite, pump x chansey, spritzee x milotic, and scyther x escavilier (tbh scyther x anything) all get nailed by it.

+6 252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 396-466 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
(396, 400, 405, 410, 414, 419, 424, 428, 433, 438, 442, 447, 452, 456, 461, 466)

252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Munchlax x Quagsire: 284-336 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee x Milotic: 654-769 (128.2 - 150.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Not only that, but spritz is setup bait for mag x gall: 0 SpA Spritzee x Milotic Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magmar: 54-63 (16.2 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Finneon x Chansey: 694-817 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chinchou x Milotic: 500-589 (99.2 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Furthermore, anything weak to its STABS is obviously gonna die.
update: I did these calcs without CC having stab,,, it's considerably stronger than these calcs show!


Mag x Gall also has access to fire punch and drain punch; while these obviously sacrifice a fair bit of power, they also make it vastly harder to revenge kill. Adamant over Jolly is another decision to be made, but if youre running cc/flare blitz you get all the kills you want with Jolly, so it does fine.

Mag x Serp is one of the oldest crossevo threats, but also one of the strongest. It was probably the root of the now infamous munchlax x quagsire, as spdef walls which could handle fire/grass/dragon/ground coverage were few and far between. Pretty much everyone knows what this monster does. However, its not quite as predictable as you might assume; although the standard Lo AoA set is still very effective, I have also seen/used variations such as scarf and subseed. Usual checks can get outsped/stalled out, allowing for a sweep later on. Furthermore, glare is a really cool tech to have. Who doesnt love yellow magic?

Mag x Nidoking, as well as its sister Mag x queen, are more immediate wallbreakers who bring amazing immediate power to the table, as well as amazing coverage. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, mag x nido can also set SR or even toxic spikes. It's got a decent speed tier and the movepool of a beast. IMO the best set is far and away a simple wallbreaker:
nidoking (Magmar) @ Life Orb
Type: Fire/Ground
Ability: Sheer Force
Stats: 85/125/77/130/105/113
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Will-o-Wisp/Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes
- Thunderbolt


Mag x Nido has very very few switchins; with any kind of prediction, the vast majority of balance, BO, and stall switchins are killed, or at worst 2hkod and outsped.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou x Milotic: 273-322 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Finneon x Chansey: 330-390 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gligar x Gyarados: 220-261 (45.5 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 221-263 (54.8 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Spritzee x Milotic: 234-277 (45.8 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Going to modest can get most of those same kills against more heavily spdef invested foes.
update: bc i'm a dumbass, earth power doesnt have stab. regardless, it still kills shit.


WoW lets it cripple offensive switchins and be a general nuisance. Like mag x gall, this mon can thrive with simple voltturn and hazard support, features which are common on most offense and balance teams.

The final crossevo I'd like to include is Magmar x Vivillion, a deadly quiver dance sweeper.

vivillon (Magmar) @ Life Orb
Type: Fire/Flying
Ability: Compound Eyes
Stats: 100/125/47/163/105/153
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]


While this cross evolution does have a tricky time setting up due to that nasty SR weakness, it is incredibly deadly when it gets in:
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gligar x Gyarados: 484-572 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 406-477 (100.4 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Spritzee x Milotic: 352-415 (78.7 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Finneon x Chansey: 452-532 (75 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

meanwhile...0 SpA Finneon x Chansey Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Magmar: 66-78 (19.9 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Multiscale Doublade x Dragonite: 382-450 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

For god's sake it 1hkos max spdef doublonite THROUGH MULTISCALE


Magmar's intense offensive presence, variation in roles, and ability to work around its counters effortlessly showcases its viability, which is surely deserving of S rank.
edit: I gtg rn but ill be back later to talk about how mag lures its checks. unless yall get it then i wont.
edit 2: xern to top of B+.
 
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sin(pi)

lucky n bad
cool post but some thoughts:
From there, it can go to town, as its dual stabs (some combination of drain punch/fire punch/close combat/flare blitz) and knock off have fantastic coverage.
It also gets Mach Punch through Magmar, which is nice for smashing though offense.

Not only that, but spritz is setup bait for mag x gall: 0 SpA Spritzee x Milotic Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magmar: 54-63 (16.2 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
update: I did these calcs without CC having stab,,, it's considerably stronger than these calcs show!
Since you forgot about CC STAB, you also didn't account for the resist here :P real calc is:
0 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magmar: 108-127 (32.5 - 38.2%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO

Mag x Serp is one of the oldest crossevo threats, but also one of the strongest. It was probably the root of the now infamous munchlax x quagsire, as spdef walls which could handle fire/grass/dragon/ground coverage were few and far between. Pretty much everyone knows what this monster does. However, its not quite as predictable as you might assume; although the standard Lo AoA set is still very effective, I have also seen/used variations such as scarf and subseed. Usual checks can get outsped/stalled out, allowing for a sweep later on. Furthermore, glare is a really cool tech to have. Who doesnt love yellow magic?
It wasn't' originally for that, but this was a very nice side effect. I remember trying to find and abuse broken abilities + good stat gains, and Quag was one of the best.

Mag x Nidoking, as well as its sister Mag x queen, are more immediate wallbreakers who bring amazing immediate power to the table, as well as amazing coverage. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, mag x nido can also set SR or even toxic spikes. It's got a decent speed tier and the movepool of a beast. IMO the best set is far and away a simple wallbreaker:
nidoking (Magmar) @ Life Orb
Type: Fire/Ground
Ability: Sheer Force
Stats: 85/125/77/130/105/113
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Will-o-Wisp/Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes
- Thunderbolt


Mag x Nido has very very few switchins; with any kind of prediction, the vast majority of balance, BO, and stall switchins are killed, or at worst 2hkod and outsped.

update: bc i'm a dumbass, earth power doesnt have stab. regardless, it still kills shit.
EP does (or at least should) get STAB.

Mag is def v strong though, S may be a stretch but it's super strong and versatile.

e: didn't mean to lay into you at all don't take it personally :[
 
cool post but some thoughts:

It also gets Mach Punch through Magmar, which is nice for smashing though offense.


Since you forgot about CC STAB, you also didn't account for the resist here :P real calc is:
0 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magmar: 108-127 (32.5 - 38.2%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO


It wasn't' originally for that, but this was a very nice side effect. I remember trying to find and abuse broken abilities + good stat gains, and Quag was one of the best.


EP does (or at least should) get STAB.

Mag is def v strong though, S may be a stretch but it's super strong and versatile.

e: didn't mean to lay into you at all don't take it personally :[
yah i was being dumb and mixed up some calcs, my bad guys lol. anyway, on account of sheer versatility, good speed, somewhere between good and passable bulk (depending on the set)+the fact that it has 0 counters, i stand by magmar for S.

also, rufflet x hitmonlee for b+. it is brutal.
 
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You ranked P-orge higher than P-Don, explanation on that? Otherwise I'm confused. P-Don is one of those mons, like gli, "Absolutely no reason to use anything else over this mon" Specifically ground types variant and even some fire types. I mean seriously, literally only gligar x Gyara (defensively AND offensively ) is its only worthy competition. And don't try to say rhydon please, no one uses that phat dinosaur for defensive purposes, literally only its crit sets are comparable due to crit not caring about burn. Oh, but wait, P-Don doesn't care either thanks to the fire typing, to top that off it it gets a 50% to its fire stabs the ENTIRE time it's in. Smh, it can set up TOOONS easier than any ground( and some fire mon)type mon you can think of(except of course gligar), thanks to water immunity, and neutralize to ice(which is huge for a ground type in general). My point is, P-Orge is not a "There's absolutely no reason not to use" mon.



As a matter of fact, majority of the mon In B+ rank is not even on P-Dons' level. A or A- rank imho is more like it. Ffs chinchou is in A rank and it's LITERALLY set up bait smh
 
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What about Haunter ?
Maybe it has been mentionned before (if so, sorry), but I'm just surprised Haunter is not ever mentionned in the VR.

Vivillon (Haunter) @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Shadow Ball
- Hurricane
- Hypnosis

80/80/35/178/75/155
I guess it's outclassed by Electabuzz-Vivillon but still...spam Hypnosis till you win.
 
Magmar should have vivillion and gallade listed as potential evolutions. Not only that, but it should be S imo. The sheer variety of its possible sets is amazing, ranging from wallbreaker to sweeper, both physical and special. Mag x Gall has a very respectable spdef stat, and can easily get off a belly drum versus stall/defensive balance and even against offense with basic voltturn support. From there, it can go to town, as its dual stabs (some combination of drain punch/fire punch/close combat/flare blitz) and knock off have fantastic coverage. Common stall/balance staples like doublade x dragonite, pump x chansey, spritzee x milotic, and scyther x escavilier (tbh scyther x anything) all get nailed by it.

+6 252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 396-466 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
(396, 400, 405, 410, 414, 419, 424, 428, 433, 438, 442, 447, 452, 456, 461, 466)

252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Munchlax x Quagsire: 284-336 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee x Milotic: 654-769 (128.2 - 150.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Not only that, but spritz is setup bait for mag x gall: 0 SpA Spritzee x Milotic Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magmar: 54-63 (16.2 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Finneon x Chansey: 694-817 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chinchou x Milotic: 500-589 (99.2 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Furthermore, anything weak to its STABS is obviously gonna die.
update: I did these calcs without CC having stab,,, it's considerably stronger than these calcs show!


Mag x Gall also has access to fire punch and drain punch; while these obviously sacrifice a fair bit of power, they also make it vastly harder to revenge kill. Adamant over Jolly is another decision to be made, but if youre running cc/flare blitz you get all the kills you want with Jolly, so it does fine.

Mag x Serp is one of the oldest crossevo threats, but also one of the strongest. It was probably the root of the now infamous munchlax x quagsire, as spdef walls which could handle fire/grass/dragon/ground coverage were few and far between. Pretty much everyone knows what this monster does. However, its not quite as predictable as you might assume; although the standard Lo AoA set is still very effective, I have also seen/used variations such as scarf and subseed. Usual checks can get outsped/stalled out, allowing for a sweep later on. Furthermore, glare is a really cool tech to have. Who doesnt love yellow magic?

Mag x Nidoking, as well as its sister Mag x queen, are more immediate wallbreakers who bring amazing immediate power to the table, as well as amazing coverage. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, mag x nido can also set SR or even toxic spikes. It's got a decent speed tier and the movepool of a beast. IMO the best set is far and away a simple wallbreaker:
nidoking (Magmar) @ Life Orb
Type: Fire/Ground
Ability: Sheer Force
Stats: 85/125/77/130/105/113
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Will-o-Wisp/Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes
- Thunderbolt


Mag x Nido has very very few switchins; with any kind of prediction, the vast majority of balance, BO, and stall switchins are killed, or at worst 2hkod and outsped.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou x Milotic: 273-322 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Finneon x Chansey: 330-390 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gligar x Gyarados: 220-261 (45.5 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 221-263 (54.8 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Magmar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Spritzee x Milotic: 234-277 (45.8 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Going to modest can get most of those same kills against more heavily spdef invested foes.
update: bc i'm a dumbass, earth power doesnt have stab. regardless, it still kills shit.


WoW lets it cripple offensive switchins and be a general nuisance. Like mag x gall, this mon can thrive with simple voltturn and hazard support, features which are common on most offense and balance teams.

The final crossevo I'd like to include is Magmar x Vivillion, a deadly quiver dance sweeper.

vivillon (Magmar) @ Life Orb
Type: Fire/Flying
Ability: Compound Eyes
Stats: 100/125/47/163/105/153
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]


While this cross evolution does have a tricky time setting up due to that nasty SR weakness, it is incredibly deadly when it gets in:
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gligar x Gyarados: 484-572 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 406-477 (100.4 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Spritzee x Milotic: 352-415 (78.7 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Finneon x Chansey: 452-532 (75 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

meanwhile...0 SpA Finneon x Chansey Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Magmar: 66-78 (19.9 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magmar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Multiscale Doublade x Dragonite: 382-450 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

For god's sake it 1hkos max spdef doublonite THROUGH MULTISCALE


Magmar's intense offensive presence, variation in roles, and ability to work around its counters effortlessly showcases its viability, which is surely deserving of S rank.
edit: I gtg rn but ill be back later to talk about how mag lures its checks. unless yall get it then i wont.
In my opinion, Scyther and Magmar should be S, while Gligar should be moved to S+. Gligar is far and away the best Pokémon in Cross Evolution. Stocke already explains in this post Gligar's traits. Gligar can run scary offensive sets such as Barbaracle Shell Smash + Acrobatics + White Herb, and Hariyama sets if you'd rather have it as a special wall with reduced Ice weakness and a new Fire resistance (notably allowing it to take a +0 and a +2 Overheat from Magmar, then OHKO back). Gyarados variants can go DD, physically defensive and specially defensive. It forces a lot of Pokémon, such as Sneasel, Rhydon, Magmar, Porygon2 to run Ice coverage for it. Physically defensive variants can even take Ice attacks, live to tell the tale, and reply with EQs coming from >400 Attack (uninvested!).
Gligar is not short on the movepool department. It gets U-turn, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Roost, Taunt and Defog, and can take moves from Gyarados (Roar, Thunder Wave, Dragon Tail) or Hariyama (Whirlwind).
Gligar improves any team but straight HO, which still can run Barbaracle or DD sets.
TL;DR: Magmar and Scyther should be S, and Gligar should be S+ as it is far and away the best Pokémon in Cross Evolution with no competition (since it is almost invalidated by Gligar), great stats, versatility, and extreme splashability.
edit 2: xern to top of B+.
Rankings are in alphabetical order. xerneas is already in B+. Ideally we could order the mons in a certain rank by viability, but that's p much impossible.

yah i was being dumb and mixed up some calcs, my bad guys lol. anyway, on account of sheer versatility, good speed, somewhere between good and passable bulk (depending on the set)+the fact that it has 0 counters, i stand by magmar for S.

also, rufflet x hitmonlee for b+. it is brutal.
What does Rufflet have over Archen? I get it, Reckless dual STABs, but neither Brave Bird nor Double-Edge match the power of Archen's Head Smash. If anything it should go to B- together with Archen, they p much do the same, if we rank it at all. Archen is also faster and has a much higher Attack stat (197 vs 168).
You ranked P-orge higher than P-Don, explanation on that? Otherwise I'm confused. P-Don is one of those mons, like gli, "Absolutely no reason to use anything else over this mon" Specifically ground types variant and even some fire types. I mean seriously, literally only gligar x Gyara (defensively AND offensively ) is its only worthy competition. And don't try to say rhydon please, no one uses that phat dinosaur for defensive purposes, literally only its crit sets are comparable due to crit not caring about burn. Oh, but wait, P-Don doesn't care either thanks to the fire typing, to top that off it it gets a 50% to its fire stabs the ENTIRE time it's in. Smh, it can set up TOOONS easier than any ground( and some fire mon)type mon you can think of(except of course gligar), thanks to water immunity, and neutralize to ice(which is huge for a ground type in general). My point is, P-Orge is not a "There's absolutely no reason not to use" mon.



As a matter of fact, majority of the mon In B+ rank is not even on P-Dons' level. A or A- rank imho is more like it. Ffs chinchou is in A rank and it's LITERALLY set up bait smh
Primal Groudon has one problem in Cross Evolution: Gligar exists. Gligar is on any non-HO team for a reason, and it generally outdoes Primal Groudon defensively (and Gligar also gives it competition offensively with its Shell Smash Acro sets). Primal Groudon does not have recovery and has a much weaker Special Defense. When taking physical hits, Gligar's Intimidate also makes it bulkier. Primal Groudon is not a "There's absolutely no reason not to use" mon. Not in Cross Evolution. This title belongs to Gligar, and you need Primal Groudon's unique traits to even justify its use over Gligar in the first place (Water immunity, strong Fire STAB, spreading burns, pairing Gligar with it). And yes, Rhydon does give Primal Groudon competition offensively. Of course no one uses Rhydon defensively. But Rhydon x Gallade can run the same Double Dance sets Primal Groudon can run, and it is stronger and can hold an item. So again, before slapping a DD Primal Groudon on your team, you have to think if Rhydon is a better option or not.
Meanwhile, Primal Kyogre is (arguably) the best offensive Water-type in Cross Evolution. It's nº 1 counter, Primal Groudon, it's nowhere close to its Ubers popularity. Meanwhile, defensive Gligar sets (and offensive prior to set-up) are checked by Primal Kyogre which easily OHKOes them all with either Origin Pulse or Ice Beam. Primal Kyogre can also outspeed and beat special walls such as Ho-Oh (obviously), Scyther x Escavalier, Finneon, Pumpkaboo... few attacks match the power of rain-boosted Origin Pulse.
What about Haunter ?
Maybe it has been mentionned before (if so, sorry), but I'm just surprised Haunter is not ever mentionned in the VR.

Vivillon (Haunter) @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Shadow Ball
- Hurricane
- Hypnosis

80/80/35/178/75/155
I guess it's outclassed by Electabuzz-Vivillon but still...spam Hypnosis till you win.
We need to rank this as well.
 

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