Metagame Cross Evolution

smellslikememe said:
Regenerator
The council has decided not to take any action on Regenerator as we have not found it to be particularly broken nor centralizing. There is little precedent for a straight-up ban, and complex restrictions on the ability go against current OM tiering policy.
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I just built a team entirely around punishing Regenerator. Hazard stacking, Stakeout, Future Sight, the works. Guess what the only team it lost to was? Six. Fucking. Regenerators. I strongly suggest you reconsider your decision if this OM is to continue existing going forward. At least hold a vote so we can get some input from people who actually play in this meta.
 
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smellslikememe said:
Regenerator
The council has decided not to take any action on Regenerator as we have not found it to be particularly broken nor centralizing. There is little precedent for a straight-up ban, and complex restrictions on the ability go against current OM tiering policy.
Click to expand...


I have to take part in this discussion, considering that I have started to see more and more of these really degenerate 6x Regen-spam teams on the ladder. It really takes away all chances of having any interesting battles and interactions, when youre able to stack 6 possible switches to any possible threats while regen makes it stupidly free to do so. Many regen mons also carry scald to decrease the chance of the metas top physical threats from getting any traction, since on any turn of setup or a turn when you know you simply CANNOT OHKO an opposing mon, youre risking getting crippled and possibly losing the game from the 30% burn chance. For a regen team, there isnt such a weighted risk. Getting one mon tricked? its fine, it can still sponge hits and regen out. Taunting on a potential recovery move? No biggie, another mon can handle a hit and the mon switching out gets healthier again.

The council has to see that unrestricted Regenerator is plain uncompetitive in almost all OMs, with CE being no exception. I dont think an outright Regen ban is in order, but a 2 ability clause (which would in 99% of cases hit only the availability of Regen) would make the meta much more enjoyable and more diverse.
 
multibandit said:
The council has to see that unrestricted Regenerator is plain uncompetitive in almost all OMs, with CE being no exception. I dont think an outright Regen ban is in order, but a 2 ability clause (which would in 99% of cases hit only the availability of Regen) would make the meta much more enjoyable and more diverse.
Click to expand...

We've found this to be a valid argument, and with a decent portion of the community seeing Regenerator as an uncompetitive force, the council has unanimously decided to implement the 2-Ability Clause. I've mentioned that we are not looking to make any radical changes to the metagame as-is, and do not see 2-Ability Clause as impactful to the majority of the metagame. Tagging Kris to implement, thanks in advance!
 
well it was fun while it lasted
OOPS! ALL REGEN has gained another chapter in cross evolution
:ss/wailmer::ss/tangela::ss/ho-oh::ss/munchlax::ss/scyther::ss/dusclops:

toxapex (Wailmer) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

extremely standard set. helmet is great to chip stuff like carvanha, zac-c, etc.

eldegoss (Tangela) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Charm
- Rapid Spin

this mon goes hard (feel free to screenshot). charm is incredible tech against silly things like coil munchlax-milotic (you dont care about toxic cause you just switch to scyther).

say gg (Ho-Oh) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Impish Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Recover

standard ho-oh set. probably could use some re-eving but idk what good benchmarks are.

slowking (Munchlax) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Dragon Tail

this mon walls pretty much all special attackers bar specs ogre (which i surprisingly did not run into). it used to be flamethrower to hit ferroseed until i matched up against subcm haunter-gardevoir and instalost so lol

slowkinggalar (Scyther) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Knock Off
- U-turn

every regenspam team gotta have two regenvests. scyther does pretty good damage and also poisons things so you can pressure them harder. flamethrower is great against stuff like doublade.

reuniclus (Dusclops) @ Colbur Berry / Kasib Berry / Mental Herb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

pretty flexible slot, i dont use it much but theoretically it deals with physical scythers, zac-c kind of, etc. eq doesnt really hit anything (supposed to chip zac-c) so if youre real use focus punch to jumpscare chanseys

1646795121098.png

1646795173150.png

this had an outstanding run and kinda shows how having 6 regens really eases the amount of variability you have to face. good that 2 ability clause got implemented
 
smellslikememe said:
We've found this to be a valid argument, and with a decent portion of the community seeing Regenerator as an uncompetitive force, the council has unanimously decided to implement the 2-Ability Clause. I've mentioned that we are not looking to make any radical changes to the metagame as-is, and do not see 2-Ability Clause as impactful to the majority of the metagame. Tagging Kris to implement, thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I was instrumental on this achievement (gonna wear it with pride), so its only fair i do a team drop

https://pokepast.es/df75290f3d631458

:wailmer:
toxapex (Wailmer) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic

wailmer is a stolen set. Getting the least interesting out of the way to get to the somewhat more interesting part of the team (thanks Chazm for sending me ana's team when consulting about this)


:doublade:
Reuniclus (Doublade)
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Recover
- Toxic
- Sacred Sword

Dub blade doesnt get as hard of a dub this time. Dub is the only one without a direct way to beat setup, so it relied on killing stuff to make it not set up, hence sacred sword, to beat stuff like gallade klang. Itemless to shit on polt (sorry polt). Fattest thing physically in the team, so its cool for that too.


:shelmet:
amoonguss (Shelmet) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Spikes
- Foul Play
- Clear Smog

When i put dublade i said "i need a groud resist" and i originally wanted to hazard spam, so shelmet fit the bill for that. While that didnt pan out, spikes were important in keeping my sanity and giving me something more interesting to do than switching around until my oppo did smt dumb. Amoong evo gives it some sort of setup control but its a bit sus doing that bc foul play doesnt have stab and clear smog doesnt go through subs. In practice was the most expendable of the bunch


:scyther:
slowking galar (Scyther) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Yawn
- Defog

So originally scyther was the only mon that could learn any way of hazard control (i didn't find a way to fit eldegoss evo), so i sacrificed the AV to fit defog. With the laxking bulk and lack of investment I also realized that it struggled to keep stuff from setting up too, so i put in yawn (give gbro dtail gaimfrik ):< ). Its still meant to be my secondary check to special mons.


:vullaby:
slowbro (Vullaby) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Body Press
- Foul Play

Originally, this was spritzee as the dark type check, but i realized it had ass bulk. Plus i also realized this team got 6-0d by caly and psychics in general, so i got 2 birds with one stone and upgraded to vulla. It has iron press bc i fucking love iron press and i had the slots but its not very good at it bc its not that bulky, but it still works. Arguably more crucial to keeping me sane bc it actually hit stuff and engaged in setup wars to beat setup and it barely staves off stuff like dark type scyther (craw, ursh) so i have to think a bit more when using it.


:Munchlax:
slowking (Munchlax) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Body Slam
- Shadow Ball
- Seismic Toss

Its almost a stolen set. I had the foresight to add smt to hit ghosts but i ran into some sub volc tang qd set to which i couldn't break the sub, so i added stoss


Pretty sure half the team doesnt have the stat line for this but i didnt care bc i was Regen. Very fucking glad its gone

I will play a real team now sorry to everyone i bothered in ladder
 
Some HO sets

Ninetales-Alola (Scyther) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aurora Veil
- U-turn
- Defog
- Encore

Arguably best Aveil setter, with 149 base speed and stab u-turn. Could drop the utility moves for offense but hasn't that much of a coverage. Only problem is that you can't use another scyther.

Lurantis (Kubfu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Synthesis

Lurantis gives solid buffs to both defenses and attack, and you get a mon with 140 ATK and a boostable 90/125/115 bulk on the top of contrary.
Under Aveil/screens it can 6-0 teams without bulky ghosts/ haze users/ strong special wallbreakers with SE stab. Aveil and synthesis kinda clash but it isn't that much of an issue.

Accelgor (Wailmer) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Water Spout
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- Ice Beam

Better speed than scarf kyogre and roughly the same power without rain (while being stronger than origin pulse specs kyogre with rain on). But the main selling point is 160 base HP final gambit to remove special walls switching in.
Will die to literally any physical hit (1 def).
 
This is the team I'm currently using to lose on low ladder XD I'm posting everything because why not, but I am mainly going to talk about the last two mons.

Swoobat (Sinistea) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Heat Wave

This mon should be something else, probably something that resists water. I had it in the first iteration of the team and it's a relic of that era. I can't teambuild for my life so I didn't even bother to change it. Use it as a starting point for another team, because it's hella fun and really powerful. Needs hazards down on your side but, in my experience, hazards up on the opponent's side are useful only to break random multiscale/sash/sturdy stuff, not to transform 2hkos in OHKOs.

Hatterene (Rhydon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Play Rough
- Nuzzle

This is a set that was posted here ages ago. It's amazing. The recovery is lacking, yeah, but it hits decently hard, SR is always useful and Nuzzle is amazing. The typing is not awful at all.

Tsareena (Golbat) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Roost
- U-turn

I always forget about hazards removal when I'm searching for the last memeber of a team (and usually I have to change the team after a game because I realize during that first game that I forgot to put a HRemover somewhere); I also missed a special "wall". Queenly Majesty is nice to stop random priority. Knock Off ensures that ghosts will pay for having stopped the Rapid Spin. Another mon that should be changed with a better tool for the job, but for now it's decent enough. Iirc this was also a set posted here ages ago.

Gallade (Torracat) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Last set posted here from someone else. It's a really nice scarfer. Hits like a truck, the various moves hit whatever you need to hit. KOff can't kill that much stuff and Torracat is not that bulky, but it's still a nice mon. Watch out Blitz's recoil. Justified has been useless so far, but it's a decent enough mon that not having a real ability does not hinder it that much.

Zoroark (Abra) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- U-turn

One of the two reasons I built this team. The problems with illusion are 1) you have to build your team well, because it's stronger when the mon can kill something that would stay on other mons. 2) You have to understand which mon has the better chance to trick the opponent to stay in. NP is there to hit more like a truck, Dazzling Gleam so dark mons can't relly stay in and U-Turn to safely go away. Maybe Specs would be a better replacement, given that NP means that the illusion is bound to come off from a random switch-out move like U-Turn (we're weak to it!) or Flip Turn. Also, NP could become something to hit steel types, that are apparently much more common than dark types. It's a move from Zoroark, so something could be searched in its movepool.

Thievul (Archen) @ Choice Band
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Dual Wingbeat
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Last mon, the second reason I built this team. CB is necessary, no one ever switches out :( Tbh, given that fact it almost feels like Thievul is the wrong choice. I want to live the dream at least once, before retiring this team/mon. In theory it hits like a truck, in reality it has more 2hkos than ohkos that I have hoped for. Stabs are good, DW does not care about random sashes. KOff is there because I like it and to not be completely stopped by steel types, but it never hits THAT strongly, so I might replace it. Or maybe not, maybe it's a good move on this mon and I'm just terribad. U-Turn is mandatory because positioning well is the only way to win a game, lmao.

So, I guess that the main questions are: has anyone had luck with Zoroark and Thievul? Has anyone even tried them? Should I simply forget about them because they're just bad? Should I try harder to make them work, since they are the main and almost only reason I had a team idea for this meta? How would you change the sets or even the base mons, given than these two are the best offensive combinations that I found?
Try them and have fun, tbh! If possible, lmao.

A secondary question would be who should I replace Sinistea with.
 
Just got to 1400 with the following team:
:electabuzz: :excadrill: :zacian-crowned: :yveltal: :kyogre: :calyrex-shadow:
Orbeetle (Electabuzz) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Rapid Spin

Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Crunch

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Sucker Punch

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Calyrex-Shadow @ Leftovers
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock
I don't know how many people have realized this, but most cross-evolved mons are significantly weaker than Ubers. Some of the best crossed-evolved pokemons include Electabuzz-Butterfree and Rhydon-Dragonite - even these are arguably weaker than threats like Zacian-C and Calryrex-S. The ghost rider is especially busted since Yveltal is nowhere to be seen, which makes Astral Barrage very free most game.

The team above utilizes a grand total of 1 cross-evolved pokemon. Electabuzz-Orbeetle has 165 speed, fantastic for firing off Sticky Webs and Taunt. Regular Excadrill is used for Mold Breaker and spin. Specs Kyogre kills anything without Water Absorb. Yveltal smashes offense under webs. Zacian-C and Calyrex-S are giga broken. Since dark types are pretty rare, the set above for Calryrex destroys virtually every team. The ghost rider is only A- on the VR btw lol.
 
Senzumii said:
Just got to 1400 with the following team:
:electabuzz: :excadrill: :zacian-crowned: :yveltal: :kyogre: :calyrex-shadow:
Orbeetle (Electabuzz) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Rapid Spin

Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Crunch

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Sucker Punch

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Calyrex-Shadow @ Leftovers
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock
I don't know how many people have realized this, but most cross-evolved mons are significantly weaker than Ubers. Some of the best crossed-evolved pokemons include Electabuzz-Butterfree and Rhydon-Dragonite - even these are arguably weaker than threats like Zacian-C and Calryrex-S. The ghost rider is especially busted since Yveltal is nowhere to be seen, which makes Astral Barrage very free most game.

The team above utilizes a grand total of 1 cross-evolved pokemon. Electabuzz-Orbeetle has 165 speed, fantastic for firing off Sticky Webs and Taunt. Regular Excadrill is used for Mold Breaker and spin. Specs Kyogre kills anything without Water Absorb. Yveltal smashes offense under webs. Zacian-C and Calyrex-S are giga broken. Since dark types are pretty rare, the set above for Calryrex destroys virtually every team. The ghost rider is only A- on the VR btw lol.
Click to expand...
I like the team, but I think it has a bit of a Scyther weakness, or in general any Crossevo that is extremely fast. It only has Yveltal to revenge kill and Zacian-C to beat Scyther's STABs, when it can easily run coverage for Zacian.
 
Cuddly said:
I like the team, but I think it has a bit of a Scyther weakness, or in general any Crossevo that is extremely fast. It only has Yveltal to revenge kill and Zacian-C to beat Scyther's STABs, when it can easily run coverage for Zacian.
Click to expand...

Sticky Webs is an example of the playstyle Hyper Offense. Such a playstyle is "unreliable" - a simple mistake like simply allowing an opposing Pokemon to set up or letting your own Pokemon get chipped can be game-ending. HO teams are bound to have major weaknesses, some unavoidable even with great piloting.

I'm suprised that Scyther is the one you brought up out of all the threats. The team is extremely strong against Scyther; Excadrill has Sash to lower its speed via Rock Tomb, and Electabuzz easily outspeeds it - both of these put it in range of Yveltal's Sucker Punch (it is the player's job to prevent rocks from going up). The real threat to the team is Ditto. Excadrill and must be played extremely well to keep Sash in tact while getting off rocks, while Zacian must be played in a way that discourages Ditto from coming in. I also see fairy spam with Zacian and Xerneas being troublesome with good hazard control.
 
Some sets I came up with. Never really made it past the the 1200s but they might have some merit I'm not realizing yet.

Toxapex (Porygon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Teleport
- Haze
- Scald/Toxic

Really bulky on the physical side, does die easily to fighting moves but considering Porygon learns both Recover and Teleport naturally it is good in a vacuum with the 2 moves from evo max. Admittedly probably worse than Slowpoke due to Slowpoke's higher HP and even slower teleport but might have merit due to the normal typing and access to an extra move from Toxapex. Probably irrelevant if the two move limit is removed. Haze is still good though.

Ninjask (Trapinch) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics

One of my favorite builds even if it is unreliable. Protect to scout out moves and boost up speed, Swords dance on a strong move to proc focus sash and click EQ and Acrobatics until you inevitably die or sweep. Needs solid hazard removal but has enough merit to be useable.

Corviknight (Sliggoo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog/U-Turn
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt/Toxic/Protect

Inspired by Hisuan Goodra's Dragon/Steel typing. Really underwhelming but it has move slot variability and can be a decent pivot or hazard removal.
 
Longtime lurker first time poster. I've been having a lot of fun in this meta and I thought I'd share a team that is doing well for me (low 1400s on the ladder). The basic idea is to set up hazards and chip away until you've killed a counter for scyther or electabuzz, then go ham. If they don't have good counters for either, lead with Ferro, uturn out, and switch to appropriate threat. The first 4 are really the core of the team, if you can get rid of bulky ghosts and Gallade evolutions then Munchlax can sweep easily. I've had trouble with hardcore stall teams and boosted priority attacks, so the staryu is to have reliable hazard removal and a regen of my own, and is bulky enough to take a hit and pivot out. The Magneton is something I've been playing with - I stole the set from someone I played (don't remember who sorry!). I've experimented with dragonite Rhydon, Kyogre, and some others in the last slot, but this seems to be working well.

I'm posting partly because I haven't seen many rain teams, and Barraskewda and Ludicolo evos are both great options to abuse rain with decent coverage. This team is definitely not optimized and I'd love feedback, but its fun to play with.

https://pokepast.es/0cdf692aaf875bff

Pelipper (Ferroseed) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Roost

Barraskewda (Scyther) @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Dual Wingbeat
- Liquidation
- Close Combat

Ludicolo (Electabuzz) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Leaf Storm
- Thunder
- Volt Switch

milotic (Munchlax) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Facade
- Recover
- Coil
- Toxic

Toxapex (Staryu) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Impish Nature
- Flip Turn
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes

Clefable (Magneton) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steel Beam
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
 
I think Tangela -> Volcarona is being heavily slept on. You get a whopping base 185 SpA stat, respectable 95/125/90 bulk, and access to Quiver Dance. Giga Drain is a surprisingly strong move right now given all the Wailmer and Rhydon running around, and you can take your pick of fire type moves to deal with all those steel types. It also gives you recovery so you don't have to spend a moveslot on something like Roost for a bulkier set, and you're free to run your pick of Substitute, Sleep Powder, or a third coverage move. Also, unlike regular Volcarona, you're not locked into Heavy-Duty Boots and you're free to run another item.
 
haven't had much time to ladder/play recently, finals week slammed me and i still had stuff to do after the term ended. that said i still had some pretty good results from the first half of the month with a few decent teams. don't really have time to go into insane detail about them but i'll still post them with basic descriptions for posterity. also excuse any mistakes i'm on 2 hours of sleep lol

ladder rankings from a week ago, my alts highlighted:

1647908626340.png


the following three teams are the ones i generally got the best results with:

:Rhydon::Magneton::Zacian-Crowned::Scyther::Electabuzz::Pawniard:
team paste

:Scyther:
this is a pretty generic take on ho, with scyther-excadrill acting as a suitable lead in most scenarios. base 125 speed is quite good for a mold breaker lead, although some faster taunt leads like electabuzz and tapu koko can shut it down. mental herb is a possible item option to guarantee rocks in front of taunt users but in general sash is preferred.

:Rhydon::Magneton::Electabuzz:
rhydon + mag are decent wallbreakers that can take on many of the prevalent stall/balance cores and punch holes in most teams. if doublade or scyther are issues, ice punch can be swapped out for heat crash or some appropriate coverage move. magneton-nidoking is generally the most flexible member of the team - it synergizes well offensively with rhydon-gallade due to its offensive typing, power, and coverage options, but it can just as easily be swapped out for something else that can fulfill a similar role. electabuzz does not necessarily have the sheer power of rhydon or mag, but it can exploit common pokemon with sub/taunt and spread damage/status across bulkier teams or threaten ko's against offensive teams with its high power stabs, spa, and speed.

:Zacian-Crowned:
zac is one of the best pokemon in cross evolution, although its predictability renders it highly exploitable by teams that are prepared to handle it, with common pokemon such as rhydon, doublade, wailmer, and hippopotas capable of setting up on it, crippling it, or beating it 1v1. zac is a powerful multipurpose tool on this team as it can function as a wallbreaker, cleaner, and sweeper, so careful play is generally advisable.

:Pawniard:
pawniard-barbaracle is a powerful sweeper in the right scenarios, and is capable of handling common unawares such as dusclops as well as outspeeding/ohkoing zac with iron head at +2. however, to be honest, omanyte-espeon is probably the better choice as a sweeper, and the only reason it isn't included is because i never tried it.

this team's overall matchup spread is in its favor, but will struggle against certain styles of ho like weather and specific pokemon under terrain.
:Electabuzz::Wailmer::Chansey::Rhydon::Doublade::Vullaby:
team paste

:Electabuzz:
sub/taunt electabuzz-butterfree is back, but this time i more or less built the entire team around it. it outspeeds most pokemon and the threat of potentially a sleep powder or qd or even just throwing off a powerful stab hurricane/thunder is usually enough to force whatever electabuzz is in front of out. this is where the utility of substitute and taunt can be seen - substitute is a useful move for both exploiting switches/passive play as well as scouting, and taunt can shut down many checks that would otherwise consistently check electabuzz, such as hippopotas with whirlwind/roar.

:Wailmer::Chansey:
wailmer and chansey form a powerful regen core for the team that, while not necessarily absurdly bulky, has more than enough longevity to make up for it. they both serve other roles - wailmer is able to stop many setup sweeps with haze and pressure physical attackers with the threat of a scald burn, while chansey is a bulky pivot that can also set up rocks in front of the many pokemon it switches into. in addition, utility umbrella allows it to act as a kyogre check as well as a blanket check to special attackers under weather.

:Rhydon:
rhydon-gallade is, as usual, an extremely powerful wallbreaker. heat crash can be substituted in for ice punch to deal with doublade, but the ability to break past hippo and opposing rhydon is generally more appreciated. very few pokemon can comfortably switch into one of rhydon-gallade's stabs or coverage options and it is generally difficult to exploit by offensive teams should it be given an opportunity to switch in safely.

:Doublade::Vullaby:
speaking of rhydon, doublade-flygon is here to act as a blanket check to an incredible number of physical attackers in the meta. many popular physical attackers, not the least of which include zac, scyther, and rhydon, are easily checked by this defensive behemoth thanks to its 89/180 physical bulk, flying/steel typing, and levitate to round it out. while it lacks much offensive pressure, it can spread status with toxic and force switches with dragon tail and is extremely reliable in this regard. vullaby provides an extra layer of insurance with intimidate and decent physical bulk, and its ability to pivot means that rhydon and electabuzz can be potentially brought in safely on a wide host of pokemon that would otherwise not fear them. its mixed bulk is generally high and it also serves as the hazard removal for the team, but is not overly passive with stab brave bird coming off of base 170 atk, which can chunk opposing pokemon even uninvested.
:Tapu-Koko::Scyther::Magneton::Munchlax::Omanyte::Kyogre:
team paste

:Tapu-Koko:
other terrains struggle with having viable terrain setters, but tapu koko has a surprisingly high degree of utility for a pokemon whose sole directive would usually be to set up terrain and get out. it outspeeds all relevant excadrill evos and has access to taunt and defog, which allows it to keep hazards off the field fairly consistently, and has access to u-turn for pivoting as well.

:Omanyte:
omanyte-espeon plays a fairly important role in actively preventing hazards on your side of the field while also threatening to set up and sweep with shell smash. its +2 140 bp stored power is capable of 2hko'ing most common defensive answers to special attackers, such as chansey, and is even capable of 2hko'ing the likes of ferroseed-milo and unaware spdef dusclops-clefable. omanyte can effectively punish overly passive play, and due to holding a focus sash and the nature of the team, is almost always able to fire off an attack or get off a shell smash. because of this, i've found that it's best played aggressively at the start of games where it can either be used to punch holes in opposing teams or outright sweeping with the right matchup.

:Munchlax:
munchlax-arcanine is deceptively bulky after factoring in intimidate, and because of this, it ends up with ample setup opportunities. however, it also serves an important role as a revenge killer, and against more fragile teams, it does not necessarily need the belly drum boost. because of tapu-koko/omanyte, there is generally little need to worry about hazards, which serves to maximize munchlax's longevity.

:Kyogre:
specs kyogre is a powerful offensive tool that generally eliminates most defensive counterplay to this team. threats such as chansey, ferroseed, wailmer, and munchlax all take a sizable chunk of damage from its specs water spout/origin pulse, and for most of the metagame it outright ohko's on neutral and even resisted hits. unfortunately, its low speed can render it a liability when facing opposing offensive teams, but its ability to set up rain on the switch synergizes well with omanyte and magneton, so it doesn't necessarily drag the team down even in the event that it doesn't net a ko or two.

:magneton::scyther:
finally we have the pokemon meant to actually abuse terrain. the previous team members are able to serve specific offensive/utility roles, but the core offense capabilities of the team lie with magneton-raichu-alola and scyther-hitmonlee. magneton's rising voltage gets easy 2hko's or ohko's on most pokemon, and surf and psychic provide the appropriate coverage for the ground types and specific checks that usually like to switch in on it. magnet is preferable over choice specs/life orb, as the extra power is generally irrelevant and the flexibility/longevity is well-appreciated. scyther-hitmonlee outspeeds basically everything in the game after an unburden boost and koko/omanyte are able to keep rocks off the field almost 100% of the time, giving it a much easier time getting off a swords dance (which is not always necessary) and sweeping. generally a fairly solid sweeper and most of the team is built around facilitating scyther's cleaning/sweeping capabilities.

i had some other teams that i messed around with, but either i'm not happy with them or i don't consider them to be complete. i'll link them below for the sake of it.

:Lileep::Onix::Magneton::Doublade::Rhydon::Vullaby:
wacky sand balance

:Carvanha::Haunter::Scyther::Electabuzz::Rhydon::Wailmer:
i tried to build around carvanha-boltund

:Ferroseed::Carvanha::Zacian-Crowned::Kyogre::Magneton::Rhydon:
rain :vomit:

:Sandshrew-Alola::Electabuzz::Swirlix::Magneton::Zacian-Crowned::Rhydon:
failed webs
 
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Cuddly said:
Alright, but wouldn’t be better to use Heavy Duty Boots and have intimidate instead?
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In theory, almost definitely. However, in 1 days worth of practice, it really hasnt NEEDED either(idk if the team being so offensively slanted means fewer opportunities for my opponent to land rocks? and I do have a spinner).

I would like to reiterate: The main thing I'm really after here is finding the strongest beat up possible in CE. I am not a great battler and as much as I enjoy teambuilding, my lack of skill in battle limits my teambuilding capabilities. I imagine there are GLARING holes in most of my teams.
 
I thought I'd post some highlights from a team I've been running with moderate success - I'm somewhere in the 1300-1400s, and I find it extremely fun to play. The style is hyper offense with lots if switches. The highlight here is Liepard Gastly, but the rest of the team mostly puts in work. It needs strong defog support since I rely on sashes, but I enjoy that little puzzle.

Liepard Gastly (Pranskter)
Focus Sash
412 SpA / 319 Speed
Shadow Ball
Sludge Wave
Destiney Bond
Copycat

This thing puts in work and is so fun. It acts a a revenge killer/blanket check to most setups that the rest of the team can't handle. Decent SpA allows it to take out most things except special walls. With pranksters, Copycat is super helpful to get that second hit in when they outspeed you, or can be used situationally for some fun tech, i.e a passive mon uses recover and you steal it. Or volt switching out. Destiny bond is just there to get out of sticky situations. The big threat this faces is any Vullaby, it' can't do much to it besides switch out or hope they don't expect Destiny bond.

Golisopod Larvesta
Heavy Duty Boots
493 Atk/346 Def/413Hp
First Impression
Uturn
Flare Blitz
Sucker Punch

This thing is basically a stronger, bulkier fire type Golisopod with Flare Blitz instead of Liquidation. If you like playing with Goli, you'll like this guy. Massive attack stat melts most opposition with First Impression or Flare Blitz. Also, because of it's bulk you can bring it in multiple times per game. Emergency exit is also a fantastic pivot tool, sometimes I'll send it in purposefully to get chunked so I can safely switch in something else. It does struggle against Milotic mons and Salamence/Gyardos sets, but can usually chunk them then Uturn into something more threatening.

Butterfree Magneton (Compound Eyes)
Focus Sash
515 SpA/319 Speed
Quiver Dance
Thunder
Volt Switch
Hurricane

Not much to say here. If you get a quiver dance off you basically win the game. Most people seem to run scarf, which is great and all, but I prefer this set since so many Rhydon's and Gallade CEs are running around. This can one shot basically any Rhydon with Hurricane, and all Gallade variations are easy to handle. The drawback is it's super frail and not that fast without a Quiver Dance. So be smart when you bring it in.

Also, shoutout to Ushifu-S Scyther. Bug/Water is a great typing for hitting things neutrally and Surging Strikes is so good.
 
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InfinityX000 said:
I think Tangela -> Volcarona is being heavily slept on. You get a whopping base 185 SpA stat, respectable 95/125/90 bulk, and access to Quiver Dance. Giga Drain is a surprisingly strong move right now given all the Wailmer and Rhydon running around, and you can take your pick of fire type moves to deal with all those steel types. It also gives you recovery so you don't have to spend a moveslot on something like Roost for a bulkier set, and you're free to run your pick of Substitute, Sleep Powder, or a third coverage move. Also, unlike regular Volcarona, you're not locked into Heavy-Duty Boots and you're free to run another item.
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How does it handle Vullaby sets?
 
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