Pet Mod Döppelgangers

Should we have Ubers slates?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 62.5%
  • No

    Votes: 12 37.5%

  • Total voters
    32
Approved by Aquaticpanic
Döppelgangers
Hello, welcome to Döpplegangers!
This mod attempts to make a counter for every pokemon, which will be used by their shiny forms. For example, a non-shiny Blissey would still be the same as the soft-boiling monster that we all know and love. But a shiny Blissey would no longer be a Blissey. It would be a Blissey killer. Probably a guts fighting type. Maybe something else. Its up to you!

Rules:
1. All countermons must have the same BST as their originals.
2. Type changes are allowed, and even encouraged.
3. Calculations are required in submissions, or will not be included during voting.
4. The amount of removed and new moves must be the same.
5. Shiny locking in any shape or form will be ignored, including shiny-exclusive moves (like Extreme Speed Genesect), unobtainable shinies (like Keldeo), and regular-exclusive moves.
6. There will be specified slates, so please don't post outside of allowed pokemon.
Pokemon:
New Stats:
New Typing:
New Moves:
Removed Moves:
Calcs:
Pokemon: Anti-Regieleki
New Stats: 90/120/110/80/90/90
New Typing:

New Moves: Earthquake, Earth Power, Iron Defense, Hammer Arm
Removed Moves: All electric moves, all flying moves.
Calcs:
0 Atk Regieleki Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Regieleki Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 166-196 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. Regieleki: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Submitting and Voting:
You may submit up to 6 anti-mons, but you may submit two different versions of an antimon, but name them Antimon-X and Antimon-Y (i.e, Regieleki-X and Regieleki-Y).
You may have up to half of your number of submissions self votes, rounded down. You may vote for up to 6 mons.
Council - Me, If anyone else wants to join, ask in the thread or message me.
 
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So I have questions here:
1. Is this based on National Dex or Regional Dex?
2. About the X and Y antimons. In voting phase, I can only vote 1 of them right?
3. Are there a Discord server to discuss this?
4. Are there a council (I mean other than yourself)?
 
The interaction with team preview sounds wack. Since shininess doesn't show up on team preview, you can't tell whether a mon is a countermon or not. So this:
:blissey::clefable::toxapex:
:corviknight::slowking-galar::garchomp:
can either be a stall team, a bulky offense team or whatever of countermons, or a balance team of half-normal Pokemon and half-countermons. Every mon basically becomes an Urshifu in some sort of way, since its forms have such drastically different playstyles and counters and might be hard to react to once revealed.
 
So I have questions here:
1. Is this based on National Dex or Regional Dex?
i asked if we could post and this question + how would alternate forms (i meant cases like meloetta) and mega forms be handled i got the reply 1 hour ago but only checked my messages 10 mins ago, i too have a series of questions to ask and will edit them into this post but for now here's the reply i got

"I thought that you could post already, this is my first mod, sorry. But I'm thinking probably regular Natdex, with the alternate forms being activated via making them shiny, and Mega-Shinies might work too."

here are some of my questions without elaborating on examples or suggesting solutions

will the preview issue zxg mentioned be fixed (its doable) or will it be taken advantage of to increase viability of a mon? (quick example: quagsire :psynervous: )

besides calcs there are other factors to making a counter, ie ghost/poison magic bounce blissey, can a sub avoid dqing by citing the factors that are used to shut down its target

will there be custom elements (ie shiny megas, different stat swaps for :meloetta-pirouette:)

will there be removal of elements (dynamax, z moves, megas ?)

what decides the slates ? will the focus of this mod be top tier threats or lesser used pokemon will get a chance somehow ?

besides movepool (that is also changeable), are all other factors changeable ?, besides visual feedback, how is that any different from creating a fakemon ? i believe changes should be more restricted

you briefly touched on abilities, could you be more specific on how those will be handled, can i give 3 abilities to a single ability pokemon like gengar ?

what is the scope of the mod ? will you cover all natdexou mons ? what about tiers below ?

if this ever becomes playable would all natdex mons be legal from the get-go or only pokemon that got a doppleganger?
 
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in regards to the preview shiny thing, could it be coded to show shiny-ness in team preview? This looks like a super cool mod and I think it’ll be super fun
I think coder probably just make shiny a legit different form, so that it will shown as different Pokemon.
 
So I have questions here:
2. About the X and Y antimons. In voting phase, I can only vote 1 of them right?
3. Are there a Discord server to discuss this?
4. Are there a council (I mean other than yourself)?
2. You may vote up to 6 mons, so you could vote ExampleSmogonUser1's Regieleki-X, ExampleSmogonUser1's Regieleki-Y, ExampleSmogonUser2's Regieleki, ExampleSmogonUser2's Regidrago, My Regieleki, My Regidrago
3. No
4. You can apply to signups. I'll add that to the OP.
 
I'm thinking of Some Anti-pokemons that counter other Antimons and Pokemons as well as their intended usage, or not work against the origional at all.
Say Anti-Cramorant (Yes IK this is a meme), It has to be electric type, and maybe Defiant or Big Pecks to stop the defence drop. Then it will DEFINITELY counter Gyarados and probably stuff like Pelipper. Some Antimons might end up being ten times more broken than the origional, which might be something like PU-tier. Also, Anti-Silvally? How does THAT work? Something like Anti-Dracovish would have Water Absorb and is faster, but that might still get OHKO'd by Earthquake. Some megas, like Diancie, is COMPLETELY different from the original, so there has to be two Antimons.
This meta is definitely going to be crazy
 
I'm thinking of Some Anti-pokemons that counter other Antimons and Pokemons as well as their intended usage, or not work against the origional at all.
Say Anti-Cramorant (Yes IK this is a meme), It has to be electric type, and maybe Defiant or Big Pecks to stop the defence drop. Then it will DEFINITELY counter Gyarados and probably stuff like Pelipper. Some Antimons might end up being ten times more broken than the origional, which might be something like PU-tier. Also, Anti-Silvally? How does THAT work? Something like Anti-Dracovish would have Water Absorb and is faster, but that might still get OHKO'd by Earthquake. Some megas, like Diancie, is COMPLETELY different from the original, so there has to be two Antimons.
This meta is definitely going to be crazy
For megas, there are mega antimons, so MegaDiancenot would have to counter MegaDiance, while regular Diancenot would counter regular Diance. As for them being the same, people are probably going to vote for the most original option, and similar pokemon are countered by similar pokemon, and you should try to make OU-Level mons, and the council will suggest edits for broken ones.
 
Please let me know if I am doing this right. EDIT: Removed Dragapult since it's banned in NatDex OU

Pokemon: Anti-Hawlucha
New Stats: 78 / 55 / 80 / 107 / 60 / 120 (500)
New Typing:
/

Abilities: Neutralizing Gas
New Moves: Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, Thunder, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Electric Terrain, Charge, Acid Armor, Recover, Belch, Toxic Spikes, Rising Voltage, Electro Ball, Thunder Wave
Removed Moves: Bulk Up, Cross Chop, Superpower, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Drain Punch, High Jump Kick, Brave Bird, Acrobatics, Dual Wingbeat, Fly, Sky Attack, Roost
Calcs: +2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Anti-Hawlucha: 204-240 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Anti-Hawlucha: 227-268 (76.4 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Anti-Hawlucha Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hawlucha: 372-440 (125.2 - 148.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Description: Very fast, bulky enough to take a single hit if needed and resists Hawlucha's STABs. Neutralizing Gas allows it to nullify the effect of Unburden, letting it revenge kill even if that has already activated. It can keep momentum with Volt Switch and hit would-be checks with Focus Blast and Grass Knot.

Pokemon: Anti-Rillaboom
New Stats: 100 / 90 / 125 / 60 / 85 / 70 (530)
New Typing:
/

Abilities: Poison Point / Sticky Hold
New Moves: Dual Wingbeat, Roost, Defog, Infestation, Toxic, Bug Bite, Poison Jab, Lunge
Removed Moves: Wood Hammer, Grassy Glide, Drum Beating, Leech Seed, Solar Blade, Frenzy Plant, Grass Pledge, Bullet Seed
Calcs: 252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Anti-Rillaboom: 105-124 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Rillaboom Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) (no one would use this) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Anti-Rillaboom: 287-338 (71 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Anti-Rillaboom Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 172-208 (50.4 - 60.9%) -- approx. 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Description: Anti-Rillaboom has good bulk, utility moves like Knock Off, Defog, and U-turn, and Sticky Hold so that it never loses its Boots, making it always able to switch in on Rillaboom. Alternately Poison Point can punish contact moves even harder. Although Bug / Flying is not an excellent typing, it's perfect for countering Rillaboom and gaining STAB on U-turn, letting it do a fair amount of damage while pivoting. It can also pivot in on physical attackers like Mega Lopunny. This mon can also be a bulky setup sweeper with Bulk Up, using Body Press or Earthquake to give it nice coverage.

Pokemon: Anti-Clefable
New Stats: 87 / 90 / 61 / 90 / 90 / 65 (483)
New Typing:

Abilities: Magic Guard / Limber / Justified
New Moves: Flash Cannon, Steel Beam, Iron Head, Shift Gear, Bullet Punch, Wild Charge
Removed Moves: Teleport, Wish, Heal Bell, Aromatherapy, Trick, Healing Wish
Calcs: +1 0 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Anti-Clefable: 105-125 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Anti-Clefable Steel Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 335-398 (85 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 0 SpA Life Orb Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Anti-Clefable: 265-312 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Clefable Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 393-463 (99.7 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Description: Although it has low stats overall, Anti-Clefable has much of regular Clefable's versatility and utility while being able to pose as a threatening setup sweeper thanks to Shift Gear. It's less initially threatening than Magearna but perhaps even more unpredictable, as it can hit hard physically with Meteor Mash being a powerful physical STAB and the threatening Magic Guard LO Steel Beam being a very powerful special option. Limber and Justified are kinda the more flavourful ability options but punish common Clefable tech in Thunder Wave and Knock Off respectively.

Pokemon: Anti-Keldeo
New Stats: 91 / 72 / 72 / 129 / 113 / 103 (580)
New Typing:
/

Abilities: Water Veil
New Moves: Shadow Ball, Hex, Psychic, Psyshock, Ice Beam, Haze
Removed Moves: Focus Blast, Secret Sword, Close Combat, Stone Edge, Hidden Power, Superpower
Calcs: 252 SpA Anti-Keldeo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 142-168 (43.9 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Anti-Keldeo: 120-141 (37.1 - 43.6%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Anti-Keldeo Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 318-376 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Description: Notably more specially bulky than Keldeo with a typing that makes it resistant to all of its moves save for the uncommon and exploitable Hidden Power Ghost. Water Veil makes it very safe to switch in on Scald, too. Access to Psychic or Psyshock as coverage lets it hit Keldeo very hard but also is useful against other targets like Amoonguss and Toxapex. If it comes to a CM war, it can generally win barring multiple unlucky crits, or Psyshock can simply be run on any variant to bypass CM boosts. All this comes at the cost of its good Fighting coverage, but it doesn't really need it as it generally sets up on Chansey/Blissey by virtue of typing.
 
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Still no definite answer on the team preview thing but ok

:ss/toxapex:
Pokemon: Anti-Toxapex
Type: Poison / Ground
Ability: Merciless / Limber / Storm Drain
Stats: 50 / 35 / 112 / 133 / 102 / 63
New Moves: Calm Mind, Earthquake, Earth Power, Mud Shot, Mud Slap
Removed Moves: Frost Breath, Haze, Hydro Pump, Knock Off, Smack Down
Absorbs tspikes, makes scald less free, and uses pex as setup fodder

252+ SpA Toxapex Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 242-288 (79.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Toxapex Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 27-32 (8.8 - 10.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Yeah sure it can't OHKO but anything that can ohko pex without boosts should really not exist


:ss/tapu lele:
Pokemon: Anti-Tapu Lele
Type: Psychic / Steel
Abilty: Telepathy / Bulletproof
Stats: 70 / 85 / 130 / 75 / 115 / 95
New Moves: Flash Cannon, Iron Head, Metal Burst, Metal Claw, Smart Strike
Removed Moves: Aromatic Mist, Charm, Dazzling Gleam, Moonblast, Play Rough
Takes very little damage from any move Lele has

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Lele: 76-90 (22 - 26.1%) -- 6.1% chance to 4HKO
 
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:swsh/ninjask:
Pokemon: Anti-Ninjask
New Stats: 61/45/160/90/50/50 BST: 456
Ability: Stamina HA: Infiltrator
New Typing: Rock/Poison
New Moves: Ancient Power, Power Gem, Venoshock, Venom Drench, Sludge Bomb, Corrosive Acid, Gastro Acid, Clear Smog, Acid Spray, Calm Mind
Removed Moves: Aerial Ace, Acrobatics, Bug Bite, Furry Cutter, Hone Claws, Leech Life, Skitter Smack, U-Turn, X-Scissor
Calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Anti-Ninjask: 74-88 (28.1 - 33.4%) -- approx. 0% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Anti-Ninjask: 65-77 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Anti-Ninjask Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ninjask: 544-648 (206.8 - 246.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Anti-Ninjask Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ninjask: 154-183 (58.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Explanation: None for now

:swsh/sylveon:
Pokemon: Anti-Sylveon
Abilities: Oblivious HA: Steelworker
New Stats: 65/110/95/60/65/130 BST: 525
New Typing: Steel
New Moves: Shift Gear, Iron Head, Metal Claw, Iron Defense, Steel Roller, Play Rough
Removed Moves: Dazzling Gleam, Disarming Voice, Draining Kiss, Fairy Wind, Misty Explosion, Moonblast
Calcs:
52+ SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 156-185 (57.5 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 242-286 (89.2 - 105.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0+ Atk Steelworker Sylveon Steel Roller (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 708-834 (179.6 - 211.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (with Misty Terrain Active)
0+ Atk Steelworker Sylveon Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 438-516 (111.1 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

:swsh/gallade:
Pokemon: Anti-Gallade
Abilities: Unaware/Trace HA: Psychic Surge
New Stats: 80/65/125/68/115/65 BST: 518
New Typing: Ghost/Flying
New Moves: Air Slash, Gust, Hex, Iron Defense, Trick-Or-Treat, Night Shade, Curse, Recover, Baton Pass, Dazzling Gleam, Tailwind, Disable, Encore
Removed Moves: Brick Break, Bulk Up, Close Combat, Confusion, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Low Kick, Low Sweep, Power-Up Punch, Revenge, Reversal, Rock Smash, Zen Headbutt
Calcs:
252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Gallade: 135-161 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb burned Gallade Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Gallade: 68-81 (22.5 - 26.9%) -- 26.3% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Gallade: 125-148 (41.5 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb burned Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Gallade: 62-74 (20.5 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 SpA Gallade Hex (65 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 92-110 (33.2 - 39.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Gallade Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 182-216 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
0 SpA Gallade Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 104-126 (37.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

:swsh/inteleon:
Pokemon: Anti-Inteleon
Abilities: Battle Armor HA: Magician
New Stats: 85/120/65/65/125/70 BST: 530
New Typing: Electric/Grass
New Moves: Nuzzle, Spark, Wild Charge, Thunder Punch, Bullet Seed, Grassy Glide, Petal Blizzard, Synthesis, Sleep Powder, Poison Powder, Stun Spore, Power Whip, Seed Bomb, Razor Leaf, Leaf Blade, Solar Blade, Sunny Day, Wood Hammer
Removed Moves: Aqua Jet, Aqua Ring, Dive, Hydro Cannon, Hydro Pump, Liquidation, Ice Beam, Ice Shard, Icicle Spear, Mist, Muddy Water, Scald, Snipe Shot, Surf, Waterfall, Water Gun, Water Pledge, Water Pulse, Whirlpool
Calcs:
252 SpA Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0+ SpD Inteleon: 146-172 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Inteleon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0+ SpD Inteleon: 64-76 (20.5 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 Atk Inteleon Nuzzle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Inteleon: 72-86 (25.6 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Inteleon Solar Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Inteleon: 446-528 (158.7 - 187.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

:swsh/regice:
Pokemon: Anti-Regice
Abilities: Drought HA: Solar Power
New Stats: 80/50/100/200/100/50 BST: 580
New Typing: Fire
New Moves: Fire Punch, Flame Charge, Fire Spin, Inferno, Will-O-Wisp, Burning Jealousy, Mystical Fire, Incinerate
Removed Moves: Aurora Veil, Hail, Blizzard, Frost Breath, Ice Beam, Ice Punch, Icicle Spear, Icy Wind
Calcs:
252+ SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 67-80 (22.2 - 26.5%) -- 19.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Regice Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 120-142 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0+ SpA Regice Inferno vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Regice in Sun: 354-416 (97.5 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0+ SpA Regice Fire Spin vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Regice in Sun: 128-152 (35.2 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and trapping damage

:swsh/aegislash:
Pokemon: Anti-Aegislash
Ability: Prankster
New Stats: 60/140/50/50/60/140 BST: 500
New Typing: Ground/Ghost
New Moves: Bulldoze, Earthquake, Drill Run, Shore Up
Removed Moves: Autotomize, Flash Cannon, Metal Sound, Steel Beam
Calcs:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 240-284 (91.9 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0+ Atk Aegislash-Shield Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 236-282 (72.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0+ Atk Aegislash-Shield Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 168-198 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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:ss/toxapex:
Pokemon: Anti-Toxapex
New Stats: 80/60/70/110/115/60 (495)
New Typing:
Iron Defense - Steel-type
Rest - Psychic-type

Ability: Storm Drain, Magic Guard
New Moves: Flash Cannon, Steel Beam, Iron Head, Psychic, Psyshock, Nasty Plot
Removed Moves: All water and poison moves
Calcs:
+2 252+ SpA Anti-Pex Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 422-498 (138.8 - 163.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Anti-Pex Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 212-252 (69.7 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Anti-Pex: 46-55 (13.4 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO
0- Atk Toxapex Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Anti-Pex: 88-104 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

:ss/garchomp:
Pokemon: Anti-Garchomp
New Stats: 90/80/120/130/75/105 (600)
New Typing:

Ability:
Levitate, Refrigerate, Pixilate
New Moves: Ice Beam, Blizzard, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Ice Shard
Removed Moves: All dragon and fire moves, brick break.
Calcs:
0 SpA Anti-Garchomp Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 556-660 (155.7 - 184.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Anti-Garchomp: 183-216 (63.7 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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