Dear Susan (BW II RMT), Peaked #5

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
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I love you

Introduction

Yea, its been ages since I posted a RMT, and while I had some good BW1 teams, I kinda felt that Nuclear Warfare was the best way for me to say goodbye to BW1. Anyway, BW2 hit the metagame, and I needed a team so I could test the new shit out. I really really wanted to use Meloetta cos its just gorgeous so I made this team, and then named it “Dear Susan” after Susan Coffey cos both are amazing :). Team has been pretty successful in my laddering which was pretty neat. Everyone likes ladder peaks so umm, I hit 21st on the ladder, but then it trolled me giving me +0 every time I won a game so lol got no further and played on alts for a bit after that since everyone started stalking me. Its o.k tho, cos got a screenshot of the awesome peak, here it is:



At a Glance



THE TEAM



Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Perish Song
- Toxic
- Refresh

Politoed is obviously essential to my team, since it does rely quite heavily on Rain for it to be effective. The team can function outside of rain, however it’s riskier, and Keldeo loses quite a significant amount of power. In choosing Politoed for my team, I knew that I wanted something bulky, so that I could win weather wars such as against Sun, which traditionally gives Rain a little bit of trouble due to the common grass types that are used on those sorts of teams. As such, I went towards a physically bulky spread, so I could have something to take physical hits, as well as switch into Tyranitar with little problems. The attacks I picked seem a little random, but they covered everything I wanted, Scald for general STAB as well as crippling any physical attackers with a burn, Toxic to cripple Jellicent and Gastrodon, both common switch ins to Politoed, Perish Song to fuck up Baton Pass, as well as phase out frustrating set up sweepers such as Sub DD Nite, and Sub CM Jirachi. Refresh seems a little odd, but I didn’t want Chesto Rest, didn’t want to be forced into sleep if I wanted to get rid of an annoying status, since it kills momentum, and so I went with Refresh. Refresh allows me to not really give 2 shits about Jellicent and Gastrodon (we both Toxic each other and I laugh and refresh it off next turn), as well as not worried about Ninetales burning or Toxicing me. It also is a big “fuck you”, to Sub Toxic Gliscor, since I can scald to break its subs, refresh off Toxic, and use Perish Song to phase the fucking thing out.

All in all, Politoed is kinda like the glue of my team. Its reliable, it does a good job at handling what I need it do, and its rarely a “deadweight” like some people consider it to be. It doesn’t really let me down, and I don’t really have any problems with the moves it runs, although perhaps there might be a better EV spread somewhere since I forgot what the 32 speed EVs were supposed to outspeed.



Meloetta @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / Spd 252
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Meloetta is just awesome, it’s to me what Chloroform is to Frizy, what Shaymin is to jumpluff, what Bloo is to Haunter and what pi is to Earthworm...

[13:04:51] <Earthworm> hmm
[13:04:55] <Earthworm> id better revise my pi
[13:05:14] <Earthworm> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058
[13:05:48] <Earthworm> 2097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664
[13:06:48] <Earthworm> 70938446095505822317253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659
[13:07:04] <Earthworm> 3344612847564823378678316527120190914564
[13:07:20] <Earthworm> ok
[13:07:32] <Earthworm> now i will check for errors
[13:08:35] <Earthworm> ok
[13:08:37] <Earthworm> it looks right
[13:08:39] <Earthworm> reading over it
[13:08:50] <Earthworm> now ill compare it to a website
[13:09:11] <Earthworm> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679
[13:09:11] <Earthworm> 8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196
[13:09:11] <Earthworm> 442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564
[13:09:24] <Earthworm> vs
[13:09:32] <Earthworm> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679
[13:10:25] <Earthworm> 8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196
[13:10:36] <Earthworm> 442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564
[13:11:04] <Earthworm> =]
[13:11:05] <Earthworm> no errors
[13:12:09] <Earthworm> i did it flawlessly
[13:12:16] <Earthworm> i guess that shows
[13:12:25] <Earthworm> to revise at some interval


Anyway, Meloetta is one of the most underrated pokemon in the entire game, and yet, it can be very threatening to a lot of teams. I don’t actually know why people insist on Shadow Balling it with Zam / Gengar but regardless, Meloetta really is a key member of this team. For starters, it’s almost a perfect partner to Jirachi, in that both are excellent Calm Mind users, that soften up each others counters for a sweep. Jirachi, for example, can tear off chunks of health from CB Scizor with Thunder, weakening it for a +1 FB to KO. In turn, Meloetta nails Heatran and Tyranitar, as well as Gliscor and Hippowdon, putting them under enough pressure for Jirachi to try and sweep later in the match.

Meloetta originally was Relic Song Mixed, however, the LO recoil was really draining me, and I wanted something that could take a hit a bit better, so I turned to the CM set and never looked back. Meloetta sort of acts like a mini wallbreaker, switching in and threatening quite a lot with its initial power. I don’t really need a Calm Mind boost for Meloetta to do its job, but if I do get a CM boost (usually against slower, more bulkier teams), then Meloetta becomes very, very threatening, easily getting KO after KO. Usually ill just send it in when I get a free switch, let it kill / cripple stuff, and then let my main sweepers do the rest. It’s really simple to use, it hits like a goddamn nuke, and it’s an important part of this teams overall strategy. Usually, I use Meloetta as almost my “first strike” sweeper. It has excellent bulk, and people have no idea how to handle it, so it can usually soften up the team, for my other sweepers. The exception, of course, is if I can see a possible Meloetta sweep in the team preview, in which case I will prolly use something else.

I run Modest over Timid cos I favour the initial power, and have never, ever regretted missing out on that extra speed. Its fast enough to outspeed what I need it to, and that’s what counts. Psyshock was used over Psychic because Meloetta lures in special walls and I can handle most physical walls with Shadow Ball after a CM boost anyway. It also makes beating Blissey / Chansey much easier.



Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nasty Plot

Yea, this is the main destroyer on my team. Again, like Meloetta, this thing doesn’t need to set up in order to the threatening, so against faster teams, I can just spam Thunder and kill shit fairly easily. Thundurus-T is actually fairly important on this team, since it turns the game into a mindgame if my opponent has Jolteon, Rotom W or a Thundurus. Often, many of these pokemon will throw out a coverage move in order to predict the Thundurus-T switch in, I can exploit this by playing accordingly, such as bringing in Meloetta on a Jolteon Shadow Ball, and setting up a free Calm Mind. While having that cool presence to dissuade Volt Switching, Thundurus also pretty much wrecks any slow team, and as such, serves as a pretty potent wallbreaker. It’s also a bitch to stall teams, since with a little bit of prior damage, it can clean sweep (which is often), or it can nuke down the stall team, crippling special walls for Keldeo / Meloetta / Jirachi to sweep . The best part is, even when im facing an offensive team, I can abuse my excellent 101 base speed and pretty much kill everything with a LO.

On a practical level, Thundurus-T is also pretty important as a fighting resist and ground immunity. I usually play pretty carefully with it because of this, as so long as I have it alive on my team, it discourages my opponent from freely spamming those moves, for fear that Thundurus-T forces a KO in exchange.



Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Bulldoze

Ferrothorn is kinda weird in that, yep, its running 3 attacks. The moveset looks weird as fuck so I will explain. Firstly, I had Power Whip for STAB against waters, I don’t use it often but its cool to have, then I have Bulldoze for the obvious Heatran / Infernape switches, as well as helping my handle CM Raikou, and CM Jirachi. Lowering my opponent speed 1 stage is also pretty neat since it means I don’t have to use my revenge killer, and instead use something like Meloetta. Bulldoze works pretty well, it also stops those gay Magnezone trying to Charm Beam on my ass. Gyro Ball + Bulldoze looks odd, but I am only using it on Flying types like DD Dragonite / Salamence / Tornadus –T and I like being able to hit them hard. Stealth Rock is Stealth Rock, I need it to cripple all the SR weak shit in this metagame, and leaving home without it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Ferrothorn serves as my best check to powerful water moves that fly around, as well as taking Electric Attacks, if I don’t want to risk the mindgame with Thundurus-T. It gives me a dragon resist, which is fairly nice, and it just fills so many holes on my team, so I am pretty happy with it. I guess I am open to opinions on his moveset, as occasionally I find myself wishing I had Leech Seed on there somewhere, or Thunder Wave.



Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Substitute

Jirachi is basically the main sweeper. Enough RMTs in this forum harp on about how good it is in BW2, and I don’t really feel like repeating them, but yea, its pretty neat. I run Psyshock on my Jirachi (which is non standard) so I can better beat shit like Gastrodon / Amoonguss / Latias and stuff. Having Psychic STAB is fairly useful with all the fighting types around, and Psyshock means that I should run most CM wars.

Jirachi serves as my main check to Tornadus-T. While not a perfect one, its pretty good on an offensive team such as mine, and I can cripple it with Thunder, aiming for a paralysis or something. When using Jirachi, quite often I will throw out a few Thunder from time to time, since slowing certain pokemon down makes it easier for Meloetta to sweep. Usually, either Jirachi or Meloetta will be sweeping depending on the team I am facing, so I will usually throw one of them at my opponent’s team, cripple the defensive core, then send in my other Calm Mind sweeper and clean up. Jirachi is my second steel type, giving me a second switch to Dragons which is pretty neat, and it often can set up a Sub on Ferrothorn, giving me a solid platform for a sweep.

If I were to make a change to Jirachi, it would prolly be Water Pulse over Psyshock. The only reason I dislike Water Pulse, is because it leaves me open to the stuff I use Psyshock for, but on the plus side, it threatens Cele / Tran a little more, which can be a real bother if they are running Specially Defensive Celebi (I ran into a few recently, its really annoying).



Keldeo-Resolution @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Flying

And finally, we have Keldeo. I am sure that many of you expected Specs, a lot do when looking at the team preview, however, I discovered that my team was weak to fast sweepers, and thus I needed a revenge killer. Everything on my team was working so I just chucked on a Scarf on Keldeo and thought “what the hell”, then went out and laddered. I suspect I am not the only person using Scarf Keldeo, however, it’s pretty rare, and I really think it should be used more. Under Rain, Hydro Pump still hits fairly hard on a lot of things, and its pretty successful at sweeping late game. I guess that I usually use Keldeo as a cleaner, since its going to outspeed pretty much everything late game, and Secret Sword / Hydro Pump is strong enough to take out weakened targets late game.

Asside from cleaning, Keldeo is also my revenge killer, letting me handle threats such as Tornadus-T, Genosect, or Jolteon if things don’t quite go my way. Quite often however, this requires a little bit of clever play. Usually, I will bring Keldeo in on something low on health and slower than Keldeo (as if I was using Specs), and then go for a kill with Hydro Pump. My opponent then brings in Jolteon or Tornadus-T, expecting to revenge, and then get owned by Hydro Pump, giving me Keldeo 2 KOs and still on full health. When battling, I usually take a look at what water resists are active on the team, what I need to do in order to sweep, etc etc. Latios and Celebi can usually be lured in and crippled by Meloetta, in fact, Meloetta handles most of the Keldeo checks anyway.

The moveset looks dumb, so I think ill explain it. Firstly, Hydro / SS are pretty standard, they are the moves you will most be using, and are pretty darn important. The last 2 slots are (imo) rather filler, since you don’t use them that much. I went with Icy Wind because I wanted to go with a Hidden Power to hit Grass types like Venusaur, as well as nail Croak / Virizion / Breloom. I might go back to Surf but the last two slots really are filler so I don’t mind too much.

Conclusion

So basically, this has been one of my more successful teams, and I really think it highlights how good Meloetta and Scarf Keldeo really are. The team itself, has problems against teams that have a large amount of fast pokemon, such as Latios / Thundurus / Terrakion all on the same team (for example). Teams such as this force me to rely on Keldeo a bit more than I would like, and can usually get momentum better than I can, making it harder to take down the water resists. Using Agility on Thundurus-T would fix this problem I think, however stall becomes harder so I think it’s more of a “pick your poison” kind of thing. I don’t see either team style enough to fully warrant an actual moveset change, since I tend to see balance a little more and NP is more effective against that. Anyway, feel free to rate, hate, steal, provide advice etc etc. Thank you all for reading and I hope you all enjoyed my RMT!

Importable

Bojangles (Politoed) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 32 Spd / 252 HP / 224 Def
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Perish Song
- Toxic
- Refresh

Amelie (Meloetta) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Storm (Thundurus-Therian) @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nasty Plot

Thorn (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Bulldoze

Seabiscuit (Keldeo-Resolution) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Celeste (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Substitute


EDIT

As of very recently this peaked 5th and I honestly think I should retire this team, it did what it needed too, it was awesome fun, it showcased CM Meloetta, NP Thundurus and Scarf Keldeo to the world, and im proud of what it achieved.
 

Lavos

Tournament Banned
is a defending SPL Championis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
Hi ginganinja,

When I initially saw this team it took me a while to even pinpoint any major weaknesses. I went over some big threats in my head - Tornadus-T, Mamoswine, Sun, Sand, Volt-Turn - but you seem to have almost all of them addressed in one way or another.

The few big things I'm seeing that threaten the success of your team are Technician Breloom, Choice Band Terrakion, and hazards. Breloom can set up on Politoed, Ferrothorn, and sometimes Keldeo, then OHKO the majority of your team with Adamant LO Mach Punch after Stealth Rock. With a couple layers of Spikes up, it's even worse, as Keldeo and Jirachi will no longer be able to survive the Mach Punch. If it's Thundurus-T's second time switching in on rocks, he, too, will fall to a Mach Punch. Terrakion's CB Close Combat can 2HKO anything on your team. If he gets a free switch into Meloetta, Thundurus-T, or Ferrothorn, something is going to take a huge hit. Hazards help make the above two even more of a threat, and annoy every single member of your team minus maybe Ferrothorn, depending on the number of Spikes that are down.

To solve these issues, I propose two Pokemon changes. First, Meloetta seems to be the most useless member of your team as of now. I suggest you use Tornadus-T in place of it. The big bird can effectively wall Breloom, even taking a +6 Mach Punch, while also deterring Terrakion from spamming CC all day. It even provides nice offensive momentum with U-Turn, allowing you to scout out opponents and get Thundurus-T / Jirachi in easier to set up. Second, I would use Forretress over Ferrothorn, since it does basically everything that Ferrothorn does, plus Rapid Spins, which your team really needs as I've already mentioned. Gyro Ball can OHKO Terrakion, 2HKO Landorus (another somewhat big threat I forgot to mention), and scare out other stuff like Mamoswine. As an added plus, Forretress gets Volt Switch, allowing you to create more offensive momentum in tandem with Tornadus-T, the signature Volt-Turn combo. Sets are below.

Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-Turn
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Superpower / Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Ice]

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball


The choice of last move on Tornadus-T is yours. Personally, I prefer Grass Knot to OHKO Gastrodon and Hippowdon and kill weakened Tyranitars when you don't want to rely on 70% Focus Blast accuracy. Superpower is cool, too, for a guaranteed OHKO on non-Chople Tyranitar and some nice damage on Heatran, Hydreigon, etc., while Hidden Power Ice will get a guaranteed OHKO on Dragonite after rocks, Landorus, Salamence, and Flygon (lol).

Please consider the changes I suggested. Nice team, Luvdisc'd.
 
Hey, nice team Ginganinja. I remember facing it once. First off, I definitely recommend using Surf over HP Flying on Keldeo. If you can clean up weakened foes late game without Hydro Pump's added power, Surf does wonders as you do not have to rely on an 80% accurate move to do so. Fighting-types such as the ones you mentioned get smacked by Psyshock from Jirachi and Meloetta anyways. Now that your Hidden Power is free, I suggest using Hidden Power [Ice] over Icy Wind as the difference in damage definitely shows. Another suggestion I have is for you to change Meloetta to Celebi. As Lavos Spawn stated, Meloetta seems to be the weakest member. If you also decide to use his suggestion of Forretress over Ferrothorn, you need a Pokemon capable of taking hits from Rotom-W, who can be somewhat annoying.


Celebi @ Life Orb
EVs: 232 HP / 240 Special Attack / 36 Speed
Modest Nature
Moves:
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Recover


Celebi grants you a nice fighting-type resist and allows you to effectively take them out with Psychic. Celebi's amazing typing of Grass/Psychic allows it to resist both of Breloom's STABs, who you were pretty weak to. Celebi can also defiitely help out your other members such as Thundurus-T and Jirachi with Thunder Wave. Thundurus-T often finds himself getting outsped, but with Thunder Wave crippling opposing Pokemon, Thundurus-T can be used to his fullest outspeeding and KO'ing your opponent's Pokemon with ease. Celebi also provides you with a nice check to opposing rain teams and especially helps you take on Rotom-W effectively, sponging Volt Switches all day and healing back any huge damage taken from Recover. Hope I helped and good luck.

Oh and Susan Coffey is very pretty.
 
Hello, ginganinja. The first thing which I'd like to get out of the way is congratulating your success with this team. Nowadays, it's a refresher to see a great rain team that doesn't rely on meathead-esque tactics. As for the team itself, I can see a rather large weakness to Mamoswine. While Mamoswine is pretty uncommon, it can quickly place this team in a bad position with Stealth Rock support backing it; one switch-in to Stealth Rock places Thundurus within Ice Shard's KO range. This means that with proper team support, Mamoswine can cause this team trouble with Earthquake spam. I'd reccommend using Bronzong instead of Nattorei to fix this problem. While Bronzong may seem like a questionable choice here, it's very much capable of pulling its weight on this team. Bronzong would be able to serve as a very good secondary check for Tornadus-T and defense against CM Jirachi which appears to give your team some problems as well. Moreover, Bronzong can, like the variant of Nattorei you're using, defeat Charge Beam Magnezone with Earthquake. To make up for the loss of Bulldoze, you could also replace Jirachi with Latias. Latias can check the aforementioned offensive threats while remaining at an acceptable amount of HP through the use of Recover. Latias is also capable of destroying specially based Lando-I, which is gaining more popularity.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Substitute / Thunder
- Recover

The choice of less risk using Latias overall vs quickly defeating steels is completely up to you.
 
Hey ginga, cool team.

Like everyone else said, Breloom and Keldeo are problems. Other non-Choiced Thundurus also look like they could give you a headache; if the LO Agility set manages to set up anywhere it just needs a bit of residual damage on your bulky mons and it's gg. Mamoswine could also be a bit of dick (as usual) since it gets a free switch on Jirachi and can just spam Earthquake; most of the time you should be able to play around it by luring Ice Shard though and your whole team is stacked with checks for it anyway. Finally, you look pretty weak to Sun. You don't have anything on your team which can really trouble the standard Sun without rain up.

Basically, I think you need to replace Meloetta with some form of Lati twin, even though it means losing a lot of originality. I don't really want to suggest CM Latias, because you don't have anything which wants to switch into CB Scizor (or Tyranitar, even, seeing as sending out Scarf Keldeo midgame with Sand up is just asking to be swept). I guess just pick which set you like best lol; LO Rain support Latias with Wish could make a fantastic partner to Jirachi though. You could even put Dragonite there, but then your lack of a spinner starts to get concerning.

Nice to see another of your teams pop up in this forum, anyway :)
 

Birkal

We have the technology.
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnus
CAP Head Mod
Hey ginga, love the team and congrats on your success with it!

Meloetta is clearly the sexiest member of your team, but its also unfortunately the weakest. You clearly make use of its excellent bulk and initial power, but it leaves you vulnerable to more faster paced teams, since Meloetta is rather slow against them, and cannot abuse its initial power as effectively. As other raters have pointed out, you do need something that perhaps can switch into fighting attacks more easily, as well as give you a bit more speed on the team, so I suggest you running a Life Orb Latios on your team over Meloetta. Latios gives your team a second fighting resist, and can cripple Celebi with a powerful Draco Meteor. The choice of moveset is up to you, however since HP Fire is useless on a rain team, try HP Fighting, to hit Ferrothorn, as well as Tyranitar switching in on your Latios. In this way, you can lure in a big threat to your rain team, and eliminate it thus winning the weather war.

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Recover
 

PDC

enuma elish
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Hello ginganinja, this is a very solid team you got here.

Like everybody else really suggested, I think you should give Life Orb Latios a try over Meloetta to give you more speed, a Breloom Check, and something against Keldeo. This is the most obvious Choice I can give you, even though it takes away some originality from the team. It is for this reason that you now have a Rotom-W check you should switch to Forretress which your team would really appreciate. It is basically what Ferrothorn does, but provides a better answer to Landorus and Terrakion. Thundurus - T and Jirachi both appreciate hazards being removed when facing stall.

Latios @ Life Orb | Levitate
EVs : 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Recover

Forretress @ Leftovers | Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

0 Speed IV


Good luck and luvdisc!
 

TGMD

ƧÏÐÈ¥¯ÏĈ¼Á°¿±³´µ¶·¸¹º»ŤûŠť²ØéŋŌ
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hey ginga, really awesome team!

Alot of people have suggested rather large changes already so I'm just going to focus on some smaller ones. I recommend changing Jirachi's EV spread to: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd and Keldeo's to: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe. As you may have noticed these changes are just moving 4 EV points into Special Defense, the reason for this is so that Genesect can't download a SAtk boost from Keldeo or Jirachi, which it could do before and cause some trouble. You also wondered what your speed EVs on Politoed were for, and although I've never ran those speed EVs before, I think they're to outspeed standard Choice Band Tyranitar and Expert Belt Abomasnow.

Anyway, I hope those 2 very small changes helped, thanks for all your help and support for team Oceania in the WCOP this year, and GL with the team! Luvdisc'd :)
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hi ginganinja,

When I initially saw this team it took me a while to even pinpoint any major weaknesses. I went over some big threats in my head - Tornadus-T, Mamoswine, Sun, Sand, Volt-Turn - but you seem to have almost all of them addressed in one way or another.

The few big things I'm seeing that threaten the success of your team are Technician Breloom, Choice Band Terrakion, and hazards. Breloom can set up on Politoed, Ferrothorn, and sometimes Keldeo, then OHKO the majority of your team with Adamant LO Mach Punch after Stealth Rock. With a couple layers of Spikes up, it's even worse, as Keldeo and Jirachi will no longer be able to survive the Mach Punch. If it's Thundurus-T's second time switching in on rocks, he, too, will fall to a Mach Punch. Terrakion's CB Close Combat can 2HKO anything on your team. If he gets a free switch into Meloetta, Thundurus-T, or Ferrothorn, something is going to take a huge hit. Hazards help make the above two even more of a threat, and annoy every single member of your team minus maybe Ferrothorn, depending on the number of Spikes that are down.

To solve these issues, I propose two Pokemon changes. First, Meloetta seems to be the most useless member of your team as of now. I suggest you use Tornadus-T in place of it. The big bird can effectively wall Breloom, even taking a +6 Mach Punch, while also deterring Terrakion from spamming CC all day. It even provides nice offensive momentum with U-Turn, allowing you to scout out opponents and get Thundurus-T / Jirachi in easier to set up. Second, I would use Forretress over Ferrothorn, since it does basically everything that Ferrothorn does, plus Rapid Spins, which your team really needs as I've already mentioned. Gyro Ball can OHKO Terrakion, 2HKO Landorus (another somewhat big threat I forgot to mention), and scare out other stuff like Mamoswine. As an added plus, Forretress gets Volt Switch, allowing you to create more offensive momentum in tandem with Tornadus-T, the signature Volt-Turn combo. Sets are below.

Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-Turn
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Superpower / Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Ice]

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball


The choice of last move on Tornadus-T is yours. Personally, I prefer Grass Knot to OHKO Gastrodon and Hippowdon and kill weakened Tyranitars when you don't want to rely on 70% Focus Blast accuracy. Superpower is cool, too, for a guaranteed OHKO on non-Chople Tyranitar and some nice damage on Heatran, Hydreigon, etc., while Hidden Power Ice will get a guaranteed OHKO on Dragonite after rocks, Landorus, Salamence, and Flygon (lol).

Please consider the changes I suggested. Nice team, Luvdisc'd.
Thanks for your in depth rate. Choice Band Terrakion is indeed a fairly large problem, usually I need to play aggressively and snatch a KO back until Keldeo can eventually sweep. I don't see Breloom as much of a threat, due to not actually having much difficulty against it. It usually tries to set up against Toed Turn #1, and I have Keldeo / Thundurus-T / Jirachi all available to revenge if needed. Later in the game with hazards up, I can have Keldeo / Jirachi / Meloetta / Thundurus-T put enough pressure on the opponents team in order to prevent a set up, so its never been a problem. I can see the threat however, and am willing to fix the slight weakness.

Despite agreeing with you in regards to Breloom and Terrakion, I have never really had trouble with hazards. Deoxys D is annoying I guess, although I can set up with Thundurus-T and go for a Thunder which limits it to just Stealth Rock. The problem I feel, with hazard teams against me, is that I don't give them free opportunities to set up. I take care not to make heavy use of Ferrothorn and Politoed (prolly the most Spike fodder I have on the team) and again, use Meloetta, Jirachi and Thundurus in order to not give them opportunities to spike up. Basically, offensive pressure limits the chances they get to set up Spikes, especially when setting up a layer can give me a free turn to set up with my special sweepers.

As far as your solution goes, I have to say that while dropping Meloetta for Torandus-T could work (Meloetta :( ), I would hate having 2 pokemon weak to SR. Adding Forretress over Ferrothorn, just makes me massively electric weak. Thundurus-T is my only answer, which means that against Rotom W, Starmie, Jirachi (which can now set up on Forretress easily), Jolteon, Thundurus-T can all freely spam Thunder, and turns every match into a coin flip where I have to switch in on the electric attack, knowing that if I fuck up its game over. Dropping Ferro for Forretress also gives me one less water resist, so powerful water attacks are harder to stomach. I will test your suggestions, but I think they just make me weaker to more stuff. In addition, they don't really help me against CB Terrakion, since it can still spam Close Combat (Forry gets 2KOed by CC with rocks up) and while I guess Tornadus-T can take a CC (+ SR -_-) it can only really do so once, since next time it switches in CC + Rocks will KO it. Maybe im missing something obvious, but I just think I am open to more threats with your changes than I am with no changes.

The team is pretty good. Perhaps try surf over hydro pump on Keldeo if you don't like missing. It's pretty powerful already.
Ty for the rate man. Hydro missing really sucks, so i will think about what you said, but I think I need Hydro Pump to OHKO a few key targets Surf misses out on. I might try HP Ice over Icy Wind, and Surf in the last slot which might work better.

Hey, nice team Ginganinja. I remember facing it once. First off, I definitely recommend using Surf over HP Flying on Keldeo. If you can clean up weakened foes late game without Hydro Pump's added power, Surf does wonders as you do not have to rely on an 80% accurate move to do so. Fighting-types such as the ones you mentioned get smacked by Psyshock from Jirachi and Meloetta anyways. Now that your Hidden Power is free, I suggest using Hidden Power [Ice] over Icy Wind as the difference in damage definitely shows. Another suggestion I have is for you to change Meloetta to Celebi. As Lavos Spawn stated, Meloetta seems to be the weakest member. If you also decide to use his suggestion of Forretress over Ferrothorn, you need a Pokemon capable of taking hits from Rotom-W, who can be somewhat annoying.


Celebi @ Life Orb
EVs: 232 HP / 240 Special Attack / 36 Speed
Modest Nature
Moves:
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Recover


Celebi grants you a nice fighting-type resist and allows you to effectively take them out with Psychic. Celebi's amazing typing of Grass/Psychic allows it to resist both of Breloom's STABs, who you were pretty weak to. Celebi can also defiitely help out your other members such as Thundurus-T and Jirachi with Thunder Wave. Thundurus-T often finds himself getting outsped, but with Thunder Wave crippling opposing Pokemon, Thundurus-T can be used to his fullest outspeeding and KO'ing your opponent's Pokemon with ease. Celebi also provides you with a nice check to opposing rain teams and especially helps you take on Rotom-W effectively, sponging Volt Switches all day and healing back any huge damage taken from Recover. Hope I helped and good luck.

Oh and Susan Coffey is very pretty.
Hey thanks for the rate Shining Latios!!

I remember that game too, I really hate Volt Turn :(

Anyway, as for as the moveset suggestion on Keldeo, scroll up a tiny bit, I decided ill test it but thanks for recommending the change!
As far as the Celebi suggestion goes, I don't like it, since it leaves me pretty Celebi weak if I drop Meloetta. I have no aversion to change Meloetta (well, id be guttered since I wanted to show how cool it was but im smart enough to make choices based on what's best for the team), however, I do want its replacement to be able to attain similar coverage, as well as bulk. Its why I would prefer Tornadus-T in this case, since it actually handles opposing Celebi, which your suggestion cannot fix as I usually use Meloetta to cripple it with Shadow Ball, it will switch out after, but Keldeo can usually pick it off with Hydro Pump then.

Hello, ginganinja. The first thing which I'd like to get out of the way is congratulating your success with this team. Nowadays, it's a refresher to see a great rain team that doesn't rely on meathead-esque tactics. As for the team itself, I can see a rather large weakness to Mamoswine. While Mamoswine is pretty uncommon, it can quickly place this team in a bad position with Stealth Rock support backing it; one switch-in to Stealth Rock places Thundurus within Ice Shard's KO range. This means that with proper team support, Mamoswine can cause this team trouble with Earthquake spam. I'd reccommend using Bronzong instead of Nattorei to fix this problem. While Bronzong may seem like a questionable choice here, it's very much capable of pulling its weight on this team. Bronzong would be able to serve as a very good secondary check for Tornadus-T and defense against CM Jirachi which appears to give your team some problems as well. Moreover, Bronzong can, like the variant of Nattorei you're using, defeat Charge Beam Magnezone with Earthquake. To make up for the loss of Bulldoze, you could also replace Jirachi with Latias. Latias can check the aforementioned offensive threats while remaining at an acceptable amount of HP through the use of Recover. Latias is also capable of destroying specially based Lando-I, which is gaining more popularity.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Substitute / Thunder
- Recover

The choice of less risk using Latias overall vs quickly defeating steels is completely up to you.
lol hey Chill, thanks for rating, I am very glad that you liked the team! (srry for refusing to publish it in C&C). Mamoswine is actually a bit of an anti meta problem. It usually comes in on Jirachi behind a sub and I can Psyshock it, or Ferrothorn Whips it, or Toed Scalds it, but yea, switching into Earthquakes is hard for me. I will defiantly try Bronzong although again, I hate how it leaves me vulnerable to water and electric attacks. I will try Latias over Jirachi to fix the problem. Will test.

Hey ginga, cool team.

Like everyone else said, Breloom and Keldeo are problems. Other non-Choiced Thundurus also look like they could give you a headache; if the LO Agility set manages to set up anywhere it just needs a bit of residual damage on your bulky mons and it's gg. Mamoswine could also be a bit of dick (as usual) since it gets a free switch on Jirachi and can just spam Earthquake; most of the time you should be able to play around it by luring Ice Shard though and your whole team is stacked with checks for it anyway. Finally, you look pretty weak to Sun. You don't have anything on your team which can really trouble the standard Sun without rain up.

Basically, I think you need to replace Meloetta with some form of Lati twin, even though it means losing a lot of originality. I don't really want to suggest CM Latias, because you don't have anything which wants to switch into CB Scizor (or Tyranitar, even, seeing as sending out Scarf Keldeo midgame with Sand up is just asking to be swept). I guess just pick which set you like best lol; LO Rain support Latias with Wish could make a fantastic partner to Jirachi though. You could even put Dragonite there, but then your lack of a spinner starts to get concerning.

Nice to see another of your teams pop up in this forum, anyway :)
Good rate bubbly, you pretty much labelled the main problems I have (along with the other raters), and yea, I have been thinking of replacing Meloetta with a Latias. I miss that initial power which would be really annoying, but it does seem to handle what I am weak to. Will test LO Offensive Latias which seems to be a sort of middle ground I guess between power and bulk. Reflect CM Latias might also be worth looking into.

General Note

Some of you have suggested changing Meloetta, and as shown above I have been a little resistant to the idea. I feel kinda guilty for this as I dislike not being welcoming to advice, and therefore take full blame for this. I clearly did not give a full description as to what I use Meloetta for, which I intend to fix now.

Basically, Meloetta is prolly the best pokemon I have to use against Sun. Psyshock 2KOs Ninetales, prevents Venusaur switching in, threatens Volcarona, while its coverage moves cover other pokemon on sun. Therefore, if I drop Meloetta, I would like the replacement to also do rather well against sun. I also use Meloetta as something that hits hard initially, not needing to set up in order to be powerful. This makes Torandus-T a good choice, since it doesn't need to set up in order to hit hard.

EDIT

Got 3 new rates, will read and post after someone else so i don't double post
 
Amazing team ginganinja. It looks like a typical ginganinja team with the offensive flavor in it. Just posting so that ginganinja can make a post with an importable so we can use the team apart from the pat on the back.
 
This is a brilliant team, and I don't see any flaws. Seems typical of the offensive fire that being redheaded creates in a person.
Hopefully after this post we can finally get an importable so I can steal it and actually play OU without the trouble of having to make another one of my mediocre teams.
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
While I do really like this team, there are a few things about it that I find very frustrating. You'll be glad to here that I finally beat a sun team with it, but the guy was using parashuffler dragonite. Of course he was going to lose...

I think you need to use some more accurate moves on your team. You definitely need Surf on your Keldeo, because Hpump lost me a quite amazing number of games. The reliance on Focus Blast to beat stuff like Ferrothorn can also prove extremely annoying. And should the opponent set sun up, you basically can't hit them at all except with Psyshock. If they have something that resists it you're basically screwed.

Meloetta is definitely the most replaceable member of your team, because its role is too similar to that of jirachi, and frankly it does it less well. If you're going to keep it I'd consider using LO because Meloetta doesn't really have the physical bulk to set up a lot. It'll still have better longevity than the relic mixed set.

As for stuff to replace it with, I think you could probably do with a Latios, to properly fend off Keldeo, to whom you lack even a decent check at the moment. You have said to me that your Keldeo can revenge it, but it only 2HKOes while the opponent could deal 85% or so with a Specs Hydro Pump. If it's a +1 LO CM Keldeo it'll OHKO. Alternatively, Gothitelle is a great partner for your own Keldeo because it can trap and eliminate most of its counters, as well as taking a large chunk out of Ninetales. I usually use Specs myself but I suppose Calm Mind could work too. You just need to tailor the set to take out troublesome Pokemon. Both of these provide a good Fighting resistance which should help you to deal with Terrakion too.

Sorry that I couldn't help that much, but I want to help identify the team's most glaring weaknesses for everyone else who's rating the team. Sun, innacurate moves, and fighting-types (keldeo, terrakion, breloom and lucario especially) are by far the biggest problems at the moment.
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hey ginga, love the team and congrats on your success with it!

Meloetta is clearly the sexiest member of your team, but its also unfortunately the weakest. You clearly make use of its excellent bulk and initial power, but it leaves you vulnerable to more faster paced teams, since Meloetta is rather slow against them, and cannot abuse its initial power as effectively. As other raters have pointed out, you do need something that perhaps can switch into fighting attacks more easily, as well as give you a bit more speed on the team, so I suggest you running a Life Orb Latios on your team over Meloetta. Latios gives your team a second fighting resist, and can cripple Celebi with a powerful Draco Meteor. The choice of moveset is up to you, however since HP Fire is useless on a rain team, try HP Fighting, to hit Ferrothorn, as well as Tyranitar switching in on your Latios. In this way, you can lure in a big threat to your rain team, and eliminate it thus winning the weather war.

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Recover
lol ty Birkal, don't normally see you in RMT so its rly great to have you post a good rate. Latios had been something I had been thinking of for a while (I tried CM Latias but it just lacked an initial punch that I was looking for), and I guess the loss of a small amount of bulk and power is offset by the speed I now get making it not a bad trade off. HP Fighting is nice, since Meloetta crippling Tyranitar was really cool (and under Rain I don't need HP Fire either). I might run Psyshock somewhere on Latios tho, since then I still retain the ability to hurt Blissey / Chansey. Other options im thinking of is Rain Dance (Rain Dancing on a switch to Tar, then hitting it with a Surf is a cool idea Shrang had), or Calm Mind (I lose a coverage move but I guess I mimic Meloetta more?

Anyway, it would suck losing Meloetta, especially as nothing can technically "take its place" but I guess Meloetta / Latios might be good switch since offensive teams are really common on the ladder, and the speed Latios gives me would help a lot with that. TY man!

Hello ginganinja, this is a very solid team you got here.

Like everybody else really suggested, I think you should give Life Orb Latios a try over Meloetta to give you more speed, a Breloom Check, and something against Keldeo. This is the most obvious Choice I can give you, even though it takes away some originality from the team. It is for this reason that you now have a Rotom-W check you should switch to Forretress which your team would really appreciate. It is basically what Ferrothorn does, but provides a better answer to Landorus and Terrakion. Thundurus - T and Jirachi both appreciate hazards being removed when facing stall.

Latios @ Life Orb | Levitate
EVs : 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Recover

Forretress @ Leftovers | Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

0 Speed IV


Good luck and luvdisc!
Thanks PDC, a second person suggesting Latios made me give greater reflection on the change over Meloetta. Most of what I would say I already covered above in replying to Birkal, so I will just touch on Forry, basically, I tested it over Ferrothorn, and found it sub par. It lacked the resistances that Ferrothorn had, and tbh it was sub par at spinning, especially when any good hazard stacking team controls momentum to discourage spinning. It also made me more weak to Jirachi, and I felt that it didn't really help me with Terrakion and Landorus (I never found Landorus a problem anyway).

Hey ginga, really awesome team!

Alot of people have suggested rather large changes already so I'm just going to focus on some smaller ones. I recommend changing Jirachi's EV spread to: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd and Keldeo's to: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe. As you may have noticed these changes are just moving 4 EV points into Special Defense, the reason for this is so that Genesect can't download a SAtk boost from Keldeo or Jirachi, which it could do before and cause some trouble. You also wondered what your speed EVs on Politoed were for, and although I've never ran those speed EVs before, I think they're to outspeed standard Choice Band Tyranitar and Expert Belt Abomasnow.

Anyway, I hope those 2 very small changes helped, thanks for all your help and support for team Oceania in the WCOP this year, and GL with the team! Luvdisc'd :)
Hey thanks man! Its good to have you in #ocn and stuff, your a good player and grats on repping #ocn this year! Thanks for your EV spread changes, sometimes im unsure if the ones I end up using are worth it lol.

I might keep Jirachi's EV spread as it is however, I don't mind Genosect getting a +SpA boost as much, Since most U-Turn on Jirachi anyway, and I don't want anything taking a stronger U-Turn than usual. It sounds silly but in practise, I just prefer the stronger SpA rather than the stronger U-Turn on Genosect vs Jirachi, I think its a playstyle thing.

Amazing team ginganinja. It looks like a typical ginganinja team with the offensive flavor in it. Just posting so that ginganinja can make a post with an importable so we can use the team apart from the pat on the back.
Importable Added, ty for the rate man

This is a brilliant team, and I don't see any flaws. Seems typical of the offensive fire that being redheaded creates in a person.
Hopefully after this post we can finally get an importable so I can steal it and actually play OU without the trouble of having to make another one of my mediocre teams.
lol @ redheaded jab. Again, see above.

While I do really like this team, there are a few things about it that I find very frustrating. You'll be glad to here that I finally beat a sun team with it, but the guy was using parashuffler dragonite. Of course he was going to lose...

I think you need to use some more accurate moves on your team. You definitely need Surf on your Keldeo, because Hpump lost me a quite amazing number of games. The reliance on Focus Blast to beat stuff like Ferrothorn can also prove extremely annoying. And should the opponent set sun up, you basically can't hit them at all except with Psyshock. If they have something that resists it you're basically screwed.

Meloetta is definitely the most replaceable member of your team, because its role is too similar to that of jirachi, and frankly it does it less well. If you're going to keep it I'd consider using LO because Meloetta doesn't really have the physical bulk to set up a lot. It'll still have better longevity than the relic mixed set.

As for stuff to replace it with, I think you could probably do with a Latios, to properly fend off Keldeo, to whom you lack even a decent check at the moment. You have said to me that your Keldeo can revenge it, but it only 2HKOes while the opponent could deal 85% or so with a Specs Hydro Pump. If it's a +1 LO CM Keldeo it'll OHKO. Alternatively, Gothitelle is a great partner for your own Keldeo because it can trap and eliminate most of its counters, as well as taking a large chunk out of Ninetales. I usually use Specs myself but I suppose Calm Mind could work too. You just need to tailor the set to take out troublesome Pokemon. Both of these provide a good Fighting resistance which should help you to deal with Terrakion too.

Sorry that I couldn't help that much, but I want to help identify the team's most glaring weaknesses for everyone else who's rating the team. Sun, innacurate moves, and fighting-types (keldeo, terrakion, breloom and lucario especially) are by far the biggest problems at the moment.
Thanks man for taking the time to give my team a rate man. Your pretty busy doing lots of stuff around the site so it means a lot. Anyway, sorry that Hydro Pump and Focus Blast kept missing for you, I think I was just a lucky bugger whenever I used this team, which makes up for the shitty luck I would always get on PO. Anyway, I already discussed the Latios replacement, although I personally think Meloetta / Latios fare about the same vs Sun. Additional security vs Keldeo would be nice, usually I just predict a Hydro Pump / SS, study damage output, and go from there. LO CM I have yet to see (should prolly test tho xD but I agree that it would be threatening. I would never run Life Orb on Meloetta tho, I tested it early on, and the recoil just killed me. I cannot actually find many examples, but just in general testing I know that I never missed the extra power, and the recovery offered by Leftovers was really enjoyed. If I had to swap the item, I would prolly give Expert Belt a go, but I really am happy with Leftovers.

I add another luvdisc for this great team you made ginganinja !! :) gj
Thanks man, coming from one of the top battlers in BW2, your praise means a lot, thanks =]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to rate and luvdisk, means a lot so thanks again!
 
To answer your question ginjaninja, people use shadow ball on meloetta because they aren't aware that:

1.She's Part Normal

2.Not aware that the Normal hybrid cancels out Ghost moves >.>

people don't know that, because prior to Meloetta's Release , the only other poke with its typing is Girafarig......something nobody uses.

Anyways i love the team. Cheers ^_^
 

michael

m as in mancy
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Having used this team for a while on the ladder, I'm finding Leech Seed over Bulldoze on Ferrothorn works out well. Scarfzone, and other non-boosted/boosting variants, will struggle to 4HKO after Rocks, whereas with Leech Seed you can heal up and wear it down with Power Whip. It also lets you rack up 25% on entering Infernape/Heatran given Stealth Rock is already up.

Hidden Power Flying has been fairly useless for me, as in Rain, Hydro Pump hits harder, and in Sun, +Speed Venusaur will outspeed. Those Modest variants are not even close to OHKOed by HP Flying and will smack you with a super effective Giga Drain. I would replace Hidden Power Flying with Surf, as it gives you a reliable backup STAB to use to sweep or clean-up late game.

Other than the slight EV tweaks you've mentioned you didn't like much, that's all I've got. Great team and I've ludviks'ed it, just for you.

@xRedx, "luvdisc" button is at the top right, next to "Search this thread". It's basically equivalent to "like"ing a post or upvoting a subthread (or whatever, I'm not on Reddit).
 

chimpact

fire nation
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Why not go Thunder over Shadow ball on Meloette? It works well with Serene Grace and the paralysis will definitely help take pressure off of Keldeo revenge killing every fast threat on the opponent's team. In addition it can give you a few free turns to set up a Calm Mind with Jirachi or Meloetta itself. The only problem that I can immediately think of would be Celebi if you do replace Shadow Ball.

great team overall
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Having used this team for a while on the ladder, I'm finding Leech Seed over Bulldoze on Ferrothorn works out well. Scarfzone, and other non-boosted/boosting variants, will struggle to 4HKO after Rocks, whereas with Leech Seed you can heal up and wear it down with Power Whip. It also lets you rack up 25% on entering Infernape/Heatran given Stealth Rock is already up.
Leech Seed is something I have considered for a long time, the extra recovery would be much enjoyed. That said, dropping Bulldoze just makes it slightly trickier to handle Sub CM Jirachi. When Jirachi drops in usage, maybe ill give it more thought, but as for now, I just like Bulldoze.

Oh thanks. Can I luvdisc anything I want?
Yep

Why not go Thunder over Shadow ball on Meloette? It works well with Serene Grace and the paralysis will definitely help take pressure off of Keldeo revenge killing every fast threat on the opponent's team. In addition it can give you a few free turns to set up a Calm Mind with Jirachi or Meloetta itself. The only problem that I can immediately think of would be Celebi if you do replace Shadow Ball.
You pretty much answered your question lol but yes, I like Shadow Ball for hitting Reunclus / Latios / Latias / Deoxys D / Celebi / Mew / everything else as opposed to using Thunder for ummmm Gyarados and Politoed I guess? Serene Grace Thunder is cool, but Meloetta (and I) really like having super-effective coverage to hit things with, especially Celebi which as I explained earlier, can be a little annoying.
 

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