Quality Control Deerling [QC 1/3]

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#1
[OVERVIEW]

  • Deerling's ability Sap Sipper provides it with a mostly unique and very good niche as an offensive check to Grass-types, mainly Snivy.
  • It is also blessed with a fantastic Speed tier, outspeeding the likes of Mienfoo, Cottonee, Onix, and most importantly Snivy.
  • Deerling also posses a unique STAB combination, only being resisted by Steel-types and certain Ghost-types, and even the former can be hit hard by Jump Kick.
  • However, Deerling's defensive type is horrible in Little Cup, leaving it with many weaknesses to common types, Fighting-, Flying-, and Poison-types being notable.
  • It also has incredibly poor defensive stats, meaning it can be easily KOed by even neutral attacks.
  • Deerling is completely walled by Ghost-types if it isn't running Feint Attack, leaving it vulnerable to a few common Pokemon namely Pumpakoo and Gastly.
  • Finally, even with a Life Orb, Deerling's Attack stat isn't really very powerful, so common bulky Pokemon like Vullaby, Ferroseed, and Mienfoo can easily wall it.


[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Return / Double-Edge
move 2: Seed Bomb
move 3: Jump Kick
move 4: Substitute / Baton Pass / Feint Attack
item: Life Orb
ability: Sap Sipper
nature: Jolly
evs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Return is a powerful STAB move and hits most Pokemon for neutral damage.
  • Double-Edge can also be used for some extra power, but the recoil can be quite troublesome in combination with Life Orb.
  • Seed Bomb is Deerling's other STAB attack and can hit the Rock-types that resist Return super effectively, Onix and Kabuto being the most common
  • Jump Kick hits Steel-types, namely Ferroseed and Pawniard.
  • Substitute allows Deerling to protect itself on forced switches and allows it to avoid revenge killers.
  • Baton Pass can help Deerling pass Sap Sipper boosts, as well as avoid Sucker Punch and generally pivot.
  • Feint Attack is an option to beat Ghost-types, namely a Gastly, although it is a Speed tie.
  • Wild Charge can be used to hit Archen and Vullaby, but its use is limited other than that.

Set Details
========

  • Deerling's Speed stat is maximized to give it a great 18 Speed tier, outspeeding Mienfoo, Snivy, and Drilbur, as well as Speed tying with Gastly and Salandit.
  • It also has 196 Attack EVs and a Life orb to help supplement its Attack stat.
  • The rest of its EVs are poured into its Defense and HP to help it survive attacks, although it is still quite frail.
  • Sap Sipper allows Deerling to be an offensive check to Grass-types, especially Snivy.

Usage Tips
========

  • Deerling should primarily be used as an early or mid game wall breaker, dealing heavy damage to opponents so its teammates can clean up later.
  • When trying to abuse Sap Sipper, be very careful, as nearly every relevant Grass-type has a way of crippling Deerling. Ferroseed has Thunder Wave, Foongus has Sludge Bomb, and Snivy has Hidden Power Ice and Glare.
  • Additionally, it should not be switched in directly in most cases, as it is incredibly frail. Instead, bring it in via a slow Volt Switch or U-turn user such as Chinchou or Mienfoo.
  • Similarly, removing hazards can help keep Deerling's help as high as possible as it wants to use its Life Orb to maximum efficiency.
  • Baton Pass should be used to avoid bad situations for Deerling, such as avoiding a Sucker Punch or pivoting out on slower threats like Pumpkaboo-XL or Larvesta.
  • It can also be used on predicted switches to give you an edge over your opponents by letting you switch after them.

Team Options
========

  • Pokemon that can set entry hazards can break opposing Sturdy users and many common Stealth Rock setters such as Onix, Pawniard, and Kabuto can also check Flying-types.
  • Additionally, Kabuto as well as Staryu and Drilbur can remove hazards for Deerling to help stop it being whittled down easily.
  • Water-types like Corphish and Chinchou can bait in Grass-types which Deerling can take care of if predicted correctly, as well as taking care of Fire-types.
  • Chnchou, Mienfoo, Vullaby, and Magnemite are all good pivots to pair with Deerling, as getting it in while taking minimum damage is important. If it is using Baton Pass, these pivots can also form a pivoting core with Deerling.
  • Torchic can also pair well with a Baton Pass set as it can pass along boosts to Deerling and other teammates.
  • Offensive checks to Fighting-types, such as Abra and Vullaby can remove Fighting-types for Deerling, while Mudbray can remove Fire- and Poison-types.
  • Deerling fits very well on Sticky Web teams, as it can check Snivy while also being able to keep an offensive presence and take advantage of Sticky Webs itself with its strong Attack.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

  • Due to recieving Headbutt from USM move tutors, Deerling can effectively run a paraflinch set with Serene Grace, Thunder Wave and Headbutt, although it is incredibly luck based and nerfs to paralysis make it less effective.
  • Aromatherapy can cure teammates of their status conditions, but it isn't suited to a defensive role, nor can its moveset afford it.
  • Deerling can run a full Baton Pass set with Work Up but its weak defensive stats, poor offensive typing, and the general unviability of Work Up over Calm Mind or Bulk Up make a Pokemon like Mime Jr and Munna a better option.
  • Thunder Wave can punish incoming switches, but many of Deerling's switch ins are slow bulky Pokemon anyways, and certain Pokemon like Timubrr can even capitalize off of Thunder Wave.
  • A Choice Scarf set can be used to make Deerling an even faster attacker, but it lacks the power to make full use of this, and limiting it to one move severely reduces its versatility.
  • A Z-Bounce set can deal heavy damage to incoming Fighting-types, but it lacks the power granted by Life Orb and is quite niche overall.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Ghost-types**: If Deerling lacks Feint Attack, Pumpkaboo and even Gastly can defensively wall it. Some sets of the former can set up a Z-Trick-or-Treat on Deerling, while the latter can set up a Substitute or just deal heavy damage to a switch in. Both of these Ghost-types also have common sets that run Will-o-Wisp, which can cripple Deerling heavily.

**Faster Pokemon**: Faster Pokemon such as Abra, Ponyta, and Ice Beam Staryu can all easily revenge kill Deerling. Choice Scarf Chinchou can also surprise Deerling, and although it commonly runs Hidden Power Grass, Cross Chop Elekid can score an easy KO. Other Choice Scarf Pokemon like Rufflet, Mienfoo, and Vullaby can also easily dispose of

**Bulky Pokemon with Super Effective Attacks**: Fire-types Ponyta and Larvesta can both take most hits from Deerling an easily KO it. They can also both burn it severely crippling its versatility. Bulky Fighting-types like Timburr, Mienfoo, and Croagunk can all take a hit and respond KO Deerling, and all three listed commonly carry priority moves. Poison- and Flying-types such as the aforementioned Croagunk, Alolan Grimer, Vullaby, and Archen also can easily take Deerling's attacks. However, if predicted correctly Deerling can take down these threats or at lest cripple them upon switch in.
 
Last edited:

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#4
Ok after 4 months tugs at collar I think this is ready, although I did the checks and counters section while very tired >_>
 

crusty

formerly Elec.
is a Pre-Contributor
#5
wait shouldnt it start at 1/3 since that was implemented afaik, guess ill do a not qc check while im here

overview, i dont think it is necessary to mention all of deerling's weaknesses, just list the most common types in lc its weak to.
mention that ghost types also wall it if it doesnt run feint attack.

moves, give examples of rock types, and mention it hits water and ground types harder
seed bomb is already used to hit rock types so just say that jump kick is only rly used for steels like you said
wild charge is mentioned both here and in other options, so remove one of the mentions (i think op kept it as a moves mention in the last thread so id remove the oo mention but idk let qc decide)

set details, i'd argue that 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe is a better EV spread on deerling since u get more use out of life orb, and it has more practical use overall.

usage tips, you could fit in the third point within the first point
i suppose you could mention about when you should use bp, which i know is already sorta covered in moves but it fits here too

team options, mention checks to fighters such as vullaby and abra since deerling doesnt like getting mach punched or vacuum waved. checks to mons that deerling is weak to like poisons or fires could also be mentioned.

other options, you could mention flyinium z bounce here cuz it can ohko mienfoo after rocks as well as foongus and timburr after some chip but u lose power from life orb and its just really niche overall

checks and counters, pump-xl can also burn deerling rendering it quite useless
mention more choice scarf mons here like mienfoo and rufflet

good shit
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#6
wait shouldnt it start at 1/3 since that was implemented afaik, guess ill do a not qc check while im here

overview, i dont think it is necessary to mention all of deerling's weaknesses, just list the most common types in lc its weak to.
mention that ghost types also wall it if it doesnt run feint attack.

moves, give examples of rock types, and mention it hits water and ground types harder
seed bomb is already used to hit rock types so just say that jump kick is only rly used for steels like you said
wild charge is mentioned both here and in other options, so remove one of the mentions (i think op kept it as a moves mention in the last thread so id remove the oo mention but idk let qc decide)

set details, i'd argue that 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe is a better EV spread on deerling since u get more use out of life orb, and it has more practical use overall.

usage tips, you could fit in the third point within the first point
i suppose you could mention about when you should use bp, which i know is already sorta covered in moves but it fits here too

team options, mention checks to fighters such as vullaby and abra since deerling doesnt like getting mach punched or vacuum waved. checks to mons that deerling is weak to like poisons or fires could also be mentioned.

other options, you could mention flyinium z bounce here cuz it can ohko mienfoo after rocks as well as foongus and timburr after some chip but u lose power from life orb and its just really niche overall

checks and counters, pump-xl can also burn deerling rendering it quite useless
mention more choice scarf mons here like mienfoo and rufflet

good shit
I didn't use the old one as a reference so no. Will implement asap (may be a few days for me >_>)
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#8
wait shouldnt it start at 1/3 since that was implemented afaik, guess ill do a not qc check while im here

overview, i dont think it is necessary to mention all of deerling's weaknesses, just list the most common types in lc its weak to.
mention that ghost types also wall it if it doesnt run feint attack.

moves, give examples of rock types, and mention it hits water and ground types harder
seed bomb is already used to hit rock types so just say that jump kick is only rly used for steels like you said
wild charge is mentioned both here and in other options, so remove one of the mentions (i think op kept it as a moves mention in the last thread so id remove the oo mention but idk let qc decide)

set details, i'd argue that 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe is a better EV spread on deerling since u get more use out of life orb, and it has more practical use overall.

usage tips, you could fit in the third point within the first point
i suppose you could mention about when you should use bp, which i know is already sorta covered in moves but it fits here too

team options, mention checks to fighters such as vullaby and abra since deerling doesnt like getting mach punched or vacuum waved. checks to mons that deerling is weak to like poisons or fires could also be mentioned.

other options, you could mention flyinium z bounce here cuz it can ohko mienfoo after rocks as well as foongus and timburr after some chip but u lose power from life orb and its just really niche overall

checks and counters, pump-xl can also burn deerling rendering it quite useless
mention more choice scarf mons here like mienfoo and rufflet

good shit
not QC but u can mention t-wave + headbutt + serene grace in OO or even its own set, 60% flinch is god tier
Updated a bit for USM and added these
 

Corporal Levi

ever seen a ninja with a dog?
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
Moderator
#9
Overview:
Deerling isn't completely walled by Ghost-types - at least Feint Attack catches Gastly.

Moves:
I think Double-Edge should be slashed after Return. The recoil may be annoying, but it really gives Deerling some OHKO power that it otherwise lacks, catching non-Eviolite Snivy/Croagunk/Ponyta from full and offensive Vullaby after Stealth Rock.

Usage Tips:
I don't think Deerling is a great cleaner, as 19 Speed Pokemon are still quite relevant and it loses to several priority/Choice Scarf users. It'd probably be better as an early/mid-game wall-breaker due to being quite difficult to switch into.
Mention Glare as something that Snivy can use to cripple Deerling.

Team Options:
Mention that Deerling is useful on Web teams for its ability to check Snivy, while also having the offensive presence to take advantage of Webs support.

Other Options:
Main issue with Work Up + BP isn't that Deerling is frail, it's that a) Deerling doesn't have many resistances and b) Work Up isn't that great.

Checks and Counters:
Mention that almost all of the bulky Pokemon are 2HKOed if Deerling predicts correctly.

Well done, 1/3
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#10
Overview:
Deerling isn't completely walled by Ghost-types - at least Feint Attack catches Gastly.

Moves:
I think Double-Edge should be slashed after Return. The recoil may be annoying, but it really gives Deerling some OHKO power that it otherwise lacks, catching non-Eviolite Snivy/Croagunk/Ponyta from full and offensive Vullaby after Stealth Rock.

Usage Tips:
I don't think Deerling is a great cleaner, as 19 Speed Pokemon are still quite relevant and it loses to several priority/Choice Scarf users. It'd probably be better as an early/mid-game wall-breaker due to being quite difficult to switch into.
Mention Glare as something that Snivy can use to cripple Deerling.

Team Options:
Mention that Deerling is useful on Web teams for its ability to check Snivy, while also having the offensive presence to take advantage of Webs support.

Other Options:
Main issue with Work Up + BP isn't that Deerling is frail, it's that a) Deerling doesn't have many resistances and b) Work Up isn't that great.

Checks and Counters:
Mention that almost all of the bulky Pokemon are 2HKOed if Deerling predicts correctly.

Well done, 1/3
implemented :)
 
#11
AMcheck since the actual QC team seems to be busy atm.
  • Remove all mentions of Torchic, since it's banned now.
  • Paraflinch set is kinda ass imo, it relies too much on luck especially with the paralysis nerfs and you lose the ability to check Snivy (which is kind of why you're using Deerling in the first place).
  • Add credits.
Otherwise, solid analysis.
 

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