Pokémon Delphox

[Upstart]

Magician will also not activate if the user hits the target with an attack on the same turn it consumes its held item, in this case Braixen consumed Normal Gem using Return and hit Florges holding Pixie Plate and Magician did not activate.

Unfortunately I believe this places the nail in the coffin as for the usefulness of magician.

On a happier note however,

fennekin can learn wish (deseo) for move egg with smeargle, so somewhere can learn psychic/fire move to smeargle

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Wish gives Delphox a way to differentiate itself a little with a fast wish. I honestly don't know how effective it will be with only average bulk but at the very least it has the option.

 

[The Great Gastly]

So after all that breeding... my timid, flawless Delphox with Magician won't work? D:

Is there any other way the ability can be successful? I can't think of any. :s

 

[Mattman324]

*Delphox is the best fire starter bar BeastKen, no doubt snip*

Sorry, Infernape isn't spelled that way. Really, thus far I haven't seen a single good reason it's any better than Infernape. GK? Infernape has it. Switcharoo to fuck with Chansey, TTar, and others? Infernape can straight up kill them.

 

[Aldrius]

So after all that breeding... my timid, flawless Delphox with Magician won't work? D:

Is there any other way the ability can be successful? I can't think of any. :s

It'll work. It's just a flawed ability and you'll need to be careful about how you use it.

Honestly, Switcheroo makes it at least a decent ability. Set it up with a choice-esque set. (Switcheroo, Fire Blast, Psyshock, Grass Knot) And then just spend a bunch of time messing with your opponent.

This way you're not stuck with a useless item if you make a mistake.

 

[Quaily]

ehh it might still be useful as you will have a held item after you steal one.

but if blaze is the dominant ability maybe there is the possibility of a subsalac set? infernape can run one but nasty plot is a more efficient stat booster than CM. fighting/fire is also better coverage

 

[EtherDrive]

the issue with sub-berry strats is that any priority attack will screw you.

 

[Quaily]

delphox resists bullet punch and mach punch.

 

[The Great Gastly]

It'll work. It's just a flawed ability and you'll need to be careful about how you use it.

Honestly, Switcheroo makes it at least a decent ability. Set it up with a choice-esque set. (Switcheroo, Fire Blast, Psyshock, Grass Knot) And then just spend a bunch of time messing with your opponent.

This way you're not stuck with a useless item if you make a mistake.

That's actually the exact moveset I'm using. :O

It's really a shame Magician doesn't work the same turn as the item consumption of a gem. :\

 

[Deiko240]

Ok fennekin can learn magic coat (capa mágica) and hypnosis for move egg

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[Jozan87]

Can someone confirm Hypnosis? That could be very cool and fun with Magician/Switcheroo.

 

[Icy_eagle]

What about using resist berries? That gives it slightly more survivability and lets it steal items?

 

[Kef]

Someone on reddit confirmed that Fennekin learns Wish as an egg move.

 

[skies]

Well, it gets Flame Charge for a set of Flame Charge | Fire Blast | Psyshock | Shadow Ball / Energy Ball, I have been using it and I like it, boosts its already good stat to very high levels, it is essentially a Choice Scarf boost in one turn, but with the ability to switch moves. I am also liking the idea of that item that boosts its Special Attack and Attack by +2, switch in on a weak SE attack, then proceed to steal their item at +2 >:3

 

[WildShot]

I don't know why we're even discussing this, this is obviously a ruse.

Of course it's a ruse. Anything that takes something as girly-looking as Fennekin and gives it the sacred name of ROY MUSTANG is obviously a ruse.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Sorry, Infernape isn't spelled that way. Really, thus far I haven't seen a single good reason it's any better than Infernape. GK? Infernape has it. Switcharoo to fuck with Chansey, TTar, and others? Infernape can straight up kill them.

there's this thing called "a deleted post" for a reason, geez, people will rag on my posts when they're not even there, showes such a great sense of a community doesn't it? I'm also not even going to bother how inacurate your post was anyways, I deleted my posts so I could stop this petty arguing, and I'm not going to let you drag me back into it

 

[Atherius]

Okay, I haven't tested this yet, but Magician might not be dead yet. We've established that, if you hold a Fire Gem and use a Fire attack, you can't use the item and steal in the same turn. But I think this is an important hint. Here's what I'm thinking: based on the timing of Fire Gem being used (before damage), the fact that Delphox doesn't steal the enemy item on the turn it's used suggests Magician activates BEFORE damage. This has implications. Consider:

Lead Ninjask. The universal hold item is Focus Sash. If, as I suspect, Magician kicks in before damage, this is what would occur. The Focus Sash would be stolen before the damage is done, and Ninjask is KO'd. This could apply to new things like Weakness Policy and Assault Vest, or old items like Eviolite, stealing these beneficial items before the damage is dished out. Again, this is untested, but if it does work this way, Magician could be devastating.

 

[MrEon]

Okay, I haven't tested this yet, but Magician might not be dead yet. We've established that, if you hold a Fire Gem and use a Fire attack, you can't use the item and steal in the same turn. But I think this is an important hint. Here's what I'm thinking: based on the timing of Fire Gem being used (before damage), the fact that Delphox doesn't steal the enemy item on the turn it's used suggests Magician activates BEFORE damage. This has implications. Consider:

Lead Ninjask. The universal hold item is Focus Sash. If, as I suspect, Magician kicks in before damage, this is what would occur. The Focus Sash would be stolen before the damage is done, and Ninjask is KO'd. This could apply to new things like Weakness Policy and Assault Vest, or old items like Eviolite, stealing these beneficial items before the damage is dished out. Again, this is untested, but if it does work this way, Magician could be devastating.

So use Magician Delphox without any item to screw with other 'mons?

 

[Aldrius]

Well, it was never dead. Just because you have to wait an extra turn to use it doesn't make it bad (though obviously it makes it more difficult to use well). And even if your opponent switches in a black sludge/choice band pokemon to take the hit... that's actually pretty great. Most pokemon that use those items take a ton of damage from Delphox's STABs anyway. (I'm thinking Tentacruel and Scizor as the main two examples of users of those items.)

However, yeah, being able to steal the item BEFORE damage calc is really awesome. Certainly against most of the BW UU pokemon that'd be fantastic.

 

[Alopex]

I just tried it out against wild luvdisks, and magician triggered after damage. Unfortunate. Also it didn't work when using status moves (tried toxic).

Just curious about how you worked that out with complete certainty? If the item steal message only appeared after the damage was displayed, it could still have activated before damage but the game script only had the message coded to appear after everything was done.

I would be really keen to see some results against a weak opponent holding Focus Sash.

 

[Atherius]

So use Magician Delphox without any item to screw with other 'mons?

If it can manage to steal an opponent's sash at the start and kill it in one hit, suddenly it gains the potential to take down an opponent's fragile lead and potentially take out a second with its newly acquired Sash. It may not be as beneficial as holding a Gem would have been, but it can still have a niche.

 

[Atherius]

Tested the ability with Focus Sash. It's...strange. If you hit hard enough where the Sash is used, it won't steal. If you hit to the point where Sash isn't immediately activated, it does steal. In essence, you can't get an instant KO against a Sash user. Because of this, I believe my original thought was wrong. Magician does, in fact, activate after damage.

 

[WingsOfMare97]

there's this thing called "a deleted post" for a reason, geez, people will rag on my posts when they're not even there, showes such a great sense of a community doesn't it? I'm also not even going to bother how inacurate your post was anyways, I deleted my posts so I could stop this petty arguing, and I'm not going to let you drag me back into it

I love the fire fox a lot too and I do see its bright points I mean magician/switcheroo can really screw some stuff up. take a life orb from a scizor after using a fire gem boost fire blast or flamethrower take your pick. Then switch it onto a snorlax or chasney for some leftovers. Delphox can fend off all those nasty poison and steel pokemon that may rise up. ((Lucario doesn't have anything outside of extremespeed to hit Delphox before getting fire blasted. Crunch but Delphox outspeeds it))

Then you have "beastkens" one of the few pokemon T-Tar straight up fears ((sandstorm+assault vest or mega can't save you from a close combat no matter how much sp.def you have :/ )) chasney wouldn't like that either let alone power up punches if its silly enough to stay.

they both have strong points but I can't help feel from were mattman is coming from with beastkens strength.

 

[RufflesPro]

Substitute + CM + Fire Blast + Psychic / Grass knot is not bad. The scarf/specs set was mentioned

This set would be good: Will-o-Wisp / Reflect / Light Screen / Fire Blast with Light Clay

Will-o-Wisp + Reflect + that speed makes up for his defenses, and then light screen with that special defense is nice! Fire blast just to use a bit of that SpA

 

[El Coqui]

Sorry, Infernape isn't spelled that way. Really, thus far I haven't seen a single good reason it's any better than Infernape. GK? Infernape has it. Switcharoo to fuck with Chansey, TTar, and others? Infernape can straight up kill them.

Lmfao way to destroy every idea he stands for. Infernape is overall more versitile than Delphox can ever be which is why it is the best fire starter (save Blaziken for obvious reasons). We can at least admit Delphox is better than the other 3 fire starters and the first since Charizard that can run a completely Special-set thatll work very well in UU. Ofcourse itll still have to fear Chandelures, Scarfers, and whatever new guys there are but it can be a decent fire sweeper

 

[mrglass]

I definitely think people are underestimating Delphox. Base 104 Speed is a huge deal for a Fire type. It basically allows Delphox to forgo a Choice Scarf and run Choice Specs without as much worry as say something like Chandelure.

I had been hoping that Trick could be used with an Assault Vest still on to completely cripple walls, but I guess I was wrong.

Delphox to me seems like a mix of some of the benefits of a Special Fire type with a baton pass Espeon on your team (I say this because I do it a lot. Espeon is a fantastic sun supporter). Minus Morning Sun and Magic Bounce. I was hoping Delphox'd get Magic Bounce or Magic Guard for it's HA, but that seems not to be the case. If it learned Morning sun though, it'd be able to pull off a fantastic boosting set. Maybe it will get it as an egg move.

I was thinking along the lines of:
@Salac Berry
Blaze
Timid Nature
Morning Sun
Calm Mind
Psyshock
Fire Blast