Dhelmise Discussion

Between this thing and Tsareena, Gen 7 is the age of the Grass-Type Spinners, and alongside Decidueye also the Grass-Type spinblockers (Trevenant and Gourgeist welcome you). Seriously, they are trying to Grass-Types even more utility now, expanding on the Gen 6 powder-proofing, which is great!

As for Delmise in particular, it has Base 131 Attack, SD, and STAB Shadow Sneak, so that's a big "YES". Priority may have gotten some nerfing, but it's still good to have. Anchor Shot with its psuedo-STAB is rather nice, too. I honestly really like this thing, though I am confused as to why so many Mons without arms are getting Brick Break now...
Dhelmise doesn't learn Shadow Sneak.
 
i have a vague theory of its type... aside from being a wooden-possesed anchor x3
maybe its not coincidence that the only 2 adding-type moves (forest's curse and trick-o-treat) give grass- and ghost- type respectively. Maybe it was to prevent this for having cuadruple STAB
 
Dhelmise doesn't learn Shadow Sneak.
Sorry, I misread. That, or I'm going delirious and all these new movepools are blurring together. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me, with every other Mon getting Swords Dance or U-Turn.

Anyway, I wish Dhelmise got actual recovery, and not just Giga Drain. Honestly, Tsareena is looking to be the more viable Grass-Type Spinner to me, with Dhelmise coming ahead in power and offensive versatility, and it can spinblock, but Tsareena has better Special bulk, comparable Physical bulk, U-Turn, Aromatherapy, Dual Screens, High Jump Kick (which helps make up the difference in Attack), STAB that drops Attack, immunity to priority, and Synthesis.

Still, it's kind of wild that we got 2 pretty solid Grass-Type Spinner in a single Gen after never having had one before.
 
comparable Physical bulk
If you test it in the calculator, 72/98 bulk is a teeny tiny bit better than 70/100 bulk. So yeah, Tsareena is definitely the bulkier of the two.

These two plus Defog Decidueye really make it difficult for me to pick a hazard remover for my eventual competitive team.
 
If you test it in the calculator, 72/98 bulk is a teeny tiny bit better than 70/100 bulk. So yeah, Tsareena is definitely the bulkier of the two.

These two plus Defog Decidueye really make it difficult for me to pick a hazard remover for my eventual competitive team.
Yeah, they really are upping the support factor for Grass-Type this Gen, which is saying a lot considering how support oriented they already were.
 
I think this could be a BEAST competitively.

It has Rapid Spin, which is quite good, considering 70/100/90 defenses are most definitely usable. It gets great Grass STAB in Power Whip, and a choice of Shadow Claw and Phantom Force for Ghost STAB. It also has great coverage, including Brick Break for Dark types, Earthquake for Fire types, and Steelworker-boosted Gyro Ball or Anchor Shot to hit Ice types, and Rock Slide to also hit Ice, Fire and Flying types. However, it could have a 4MSS issue, considering it can only run coverage option after Rapid Spin plus dual STAB, or two if you remove Rapid Spin or one of the STABs. In addition to all of this, it gets 131 Atk. That's really freaking good. 40 Spe is not great, but allows it to run Gyro Ball and have it hit pretty powerfully.

My prediction is OU-UU.
 
Basically the Pokémon itself is the seaweed (think flabébé). It's Grass-type because the Pokémon isn't the anchor. The anchor is used as a weapon, therefore it has the ability Steelworker. I'm not sure how obvious GameFreak made this to other people but that's how I see it anyway.
 
Concept wise, I would like this more as a Grass/Steel Pokemon with a Water version of Steelworker with this movepool. We have too many ghosts types this gen and a lot fulfilling the same roles.

Anyway, does anyone know how much SteelWorker boost? It's like a fake STAB, right?
 
Everybody keeps asking why this pokemon isn't a steel type but the reasoning is in its flavor and the way its mechanics reflect that is very very clever.

Dhelmise is grass/ghost because that's really all it is. It's ghostly seaweed.

The anchor is nothing but a normal, actual anchor the seaweed has scavenged from the ocean depths and wields as a weapon.

So it doesn't have steel typing or suffer steel's weaknesses because the steel isn't a part of its true physiology/anatomy, but it's adept with it as an attack mechanism so it still benefits from steel STAB.
 
Basically the Pokémon itself is the seaweed (think flabébé). It's Grass-type because the Pokémon isn't the anchor. The anchor is used as a weapon, therefore it has the ability Steelworker. I'm not sure how obvious GameFreak made this to other people but that's how I see it anyway.
It's Grass type because it's made of wood, like the pirates' ships.
 
The question is: Why Grass/Ghost instead of Grass/Steel? Algae are pretty much alive, and since the anchor is just a weapon...
 
How come nobody has mentioned AV yet? This seems like an amazing AV user to me, resisting water and ground and also eating up moonblasts easily with AV's added bulk. Without EVs, the current Clef's unaware wall set does 25.6 - 30.2% damage and with max SpDef and HP EVs that turns into 16.5 - 19.4%. You probably don't need this much bulk, but I just wanted to highlight how specially bulky it can be. This thing hits hard too, potentially trapping another mon in the process so they can't get the double on you.

Scald burns could hurt, so it could use misty terrain support to be fully effective. It pairs pretty well with Tapu Fini anyways, resisting the grass and electric attacks that would be thrown at it, while Tapu Fini resists dark moves. Poison attacks can hurt, but a steel type could be used to fix that.

Also, if Tapu Bulu ends up being any good, you can potentially get passive recovery with Grassy Terrain as well. This thing could also tank knock off for Dhelmise as well, then you add Heatran to the team and have the fire and poison weakness mitigated.



Basically, this thing looks like it's going to be great with the newly added terrains. Can't wait to use it!
 
How come nobody has mentioned AV yet? This seems like an amazing AV user to me, resisting water and ground and also eating up moonblasts easily with AV's added bulk. Without EVs, the current Clef's unaware wall set does 25.6 - 30.2% damage and with max SpDef and HP EVs that turns into 16.5 - 19.4%. You probably don't need this much bulk, but I just wanted to highlight how specially bulky it can be. This thing hits hard too, potentially trapping another mon in the process so they can't get the double on you.

Scald burns could hurt, so it could use misty terrain support to be fully effective. It pairs pretty well with Tapu Fini anyways, resisting the grass and electric attacks that would be thrown at it, while Tapu Fini resists dark moves. Poison attacks can hurt, but a steel type could be used to fix that.

Also, if Tapu Bulu ends up being any good, you can potentially get passive recovery with Grassy Terrain as well. This thing could also tank knock off for Dhelmise as well, then you add Heatran to the team and have the fire and poison weakness mitigated.



Basically, this thing looks like it's going to be great with the newly added terrains. Can't wait to use it!
Yeah, since it has almost no support moves I can't really imagine anything other than Assault Vest.
 
I like it's move pool, stats and ability but I just can't seem to get behind the Pokemon's appearance. I like the lore of how the plant thing takes over an anchor but it just looks a bit clunky and ugly to me. I play competitively but I am all the more eager to use Pokemon I actually like. Decidueye is a very similar Pokemon and looks sooooo cool. The stats are worse on Decidueye in my thinking and it also gets the less desirable Defog instead of Rapid Spin, but in saying that Decidueye gets access to Roost and a slow U-Turn which I think make him awesome and possibly better.
 
I'm not really sold on this guy. As far as design, I'm okay with it being Grass/Ghost on the premise of the anchor being possessed but it bothers me because the seaweed/algae literally has no detail at all. It looks like a big green blob.

As far as viability goes, I can't see this guy going too far since Tapu Bulu is faster, bulkier, and has the same attack as Dhelmise. A Choice Band set is basically outclassed I would think, since the Grassy Terrain boost and CB mean that Wood Hammer can kill Latios while Dhelmise would need to flirt with being locked into Shadow Claw. The only thing CD Dhelmise has over CB Bulu is Switcheroo.

It does have some things over it, mainly Rapid Spin and a secondary STAB. I think you need to be using rapid spin on this or otherwise any strictly offensive set is better suited for Tapu Bulu.
 
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I'm not really sold on this guy. As far as design, I'm okay with it being Grass/Ghost on the premise of the anchor being possessed but it bothers me because the seaweed/algae literally has no detail at all. It looks like a big green blob.

As far as viability goes, I can't see this guy going too far since Tapu Bulu is faster, bulkier, and has the same attack as Dhelmise. A Choice Band set is basically outclassed I would think, since the Grassy Terrain boost and CB mean that Wood Hammer can kill Latios while Dhelmise would need to flurt with being locked into Shadow Claw. The only thing CD Dhelmise has over CB Bulu is Switcheroo.

It does have some things over it, mainly Rapid Spin and a secondary STAB. I think you need to be using rapid spin on this or otherwise any strictly offensive set is better suited for Tapu Bulu.
As far as an attacker goes, yeah Tapu Bulu is much better. Though it's unique quality should not be understated. This is the only spinblocker in the game that can also spin away hazards. Not only that, but it beats the best rapid spinner, Starmie. Though interesting enough Decidueye is also a spinblocker that can remove hazards, and really I think the battle really comes between these two. Do you want utility, or power and a one sided hazard clear?
 
I can really see this guy becoming one of the best Anti Spinners of the game honestly.

Ability: Steelworker
Nature: Relaxed (0 Speed IV)
EVs: 252 HP + 196 Def + 60 SpDef
Item: Assault Vest
Moves: Gyro Ball + Earthquake + Giga Drain + Rapid Spin

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Dhelmise: 144-172 (41.8 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Dhelmise Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 272-322 (75.3 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 146-174 (42.4 - 50.5%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Dhelmise Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 164-194 (63.3 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


And I'm not even talking about the other Spinners such as Kabutops, Donphan, Tentacruel, Hitmontop, ...

Now this is definitely not the most reliable Rapid Spinner due to its abysmal speed and lack of real recovery, but I really believe that his ability to counter pretty much any Rapid Spinner, and especially Excadrill and Starmie, might give him a niche in OU.
 
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