Dissection

Blissey_ODonnell

What are your opinions on dissection in school? I personally opposed to dissection in junior high/high school/etc. It seems like a waste of life, for such little value in return. Out of the hundred or so kids that may dissect a worm or frog in one junior high, only a handful, if any at all, will have a profession involving life science in any way, so I can't really see how seeing an animal's insides is useful in life. Plus, they could just as easily show them a video or slideshow or something, and learn the same things dissection would teach.


I made this topic because we're going to be dissecting worms in class on Friday. I really don't want to because of my moral objection, but also because I'm very squeamish, for whatever reason. I nearly passed out when they showed us a picture of a dissected dog's heart. I don't think I'll do anything about it, though, I'll probably just dissect it and get over it.


Discuss.
 
Most of the animals used for dissection are bred for that sole purpose in mind. I don't really care about dissecting frog, or worms as I really don't value a frogs life when it was bred for the purpose of dissection.

If we were mass harvesting frogs from the wild of course I would be against it. In this case however, we are not. We are using frogs that were made for nothing more than to be used for the dissection.
 
I would never dissect a dog or cat, or even a pig. (Some classes did) But worms, mice, and/or frogs, come on.

It doesn't seem like you have a moral objection, just uneasy about it.

I don't think I'll do anything about it, though, I'll probably just dissect it and get over it.

"Strong willed."


But yeah, I don't remember anything about the dissection(s), besides the frog tongue.

We're at the top of the food chain, we do whatever we want.
 
Its a friggen worm. Holy hell, have you seen how many billions and billions of worms there are? Get over it.

And what does slavery have anything to do with dissecting frogs and worms?
 
Blissey_ODonnell said:
I don't see how using slaves' children for slave work in the 1800s was better than kidnapping Africans for slave work.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. Are you one of those people that thinks a worm's life is as valuable as a humans?

Also if you want to get technical the African slaves were not forced to mate in order to breed more slaves. Even if they had been I still value a human way more than a fucking toad/worm.

Since you seem to be into extreme examples I will also give you one

I stepped on a snail yesterday by accident. According to what you just said what I did was no better than manslaughter. That is absolutely preposterous
 
I'm kinda neutral when it comes to Dissection. On one hand you get to study the anatomy of a specific type of animal, which is interesting to me for some reason (Idk, I'm fascinated with science) and on the other hand, you are cutting something open that used to be alive. IMO, I think it depends on the person's individual mentality.

In high school, I had to dissect a pig, a cat, and a rat. I really didn't mind doing the rat because he's a rat, there's thousands of them, but the pig and the cat were kinda a surprise to me because I didn't think classes used animals like them. But in the end you just have to suck it up and do it, otherwise you risk getting a failing grade in the class.
 
For the slavery argument, it's the principle that matters.

I don't see why people say "it's just a worm", because a life is a life in my eyes. Maybe you can say, "it's just a sponge", maybe you can say "it's just an insect", maybe you can say "it's just a rodent". But then you move further up the evolutionary scale, to things like cats, dogs, horses, monkeys. What justification can you give making a line to divide those animals that are "just a _____" and ones whose lives are valuable? It's purely arbitrary, unless you can provide a trait that the "valuable" animals have that the "invaluable" animals don't, and whether or not that trait is sole reason enough to justify to make killing acceptable or unacceptable.

And to make things clear, I definitely view a human's life as more important than a rat's or whatever. I just think that it shouldn't be acceptable to kill that animal's life that is less valuable than a human, for the sole purpose of "education" (glorified curiosity) unless that information would be valuable to the person obtaining it. Not to mention there are perfectly viable alternatives.

Pokerade said:
We're at the top of the food chain, we do whatever we want.
Click to expand...

"Might is right", right?
 
Blissey_ODonnell said:
For the slavery argument, it's the principle that matters.

I don't see why people say "it's just a worm", because a life is a life in my eyes. Maybe you can say, "it's just a sponge", maybe you can say "it's just an insect", maybe you can say "it's just a rodent". But then you move further up the evolutionary scale, to things like cats, dogs, horses, monkeys. What justification can you give making a line to divide those animals that are "just a _____" and ones whose lives are valuable? It's purely arbitrary, unless you can provide a trait that the "valuable" animals have that the "invaluable" animals don't, and whether or not that trait is sole reason enough to justify to make killing acceptable or unacceptable.
Click to expand...
If it was bred for the sole purpose of being killed later on in life, they would of already had a very cushy life then they would of had in the wild. Even if there just being picked up from some random field, there species is usually overpopulated in the region and killing a few off can have some benefits. There are so many goddamn frog were I live, I'd like to see a few die...
And to make things clear, I definitely view a human's life as more important than a rat's or whatever. I just think that it shouldn't be acceptable to kill that animal's life that is less valuable than a human, for the sole purpose of "education", glorified curiosity, unless that information would be valuable to the person obtaining it. Not to mention there are perfectly viable alternatives.
Click to expand...
Although they will probably never use the info again, a disection does help a student get an upclose look at an animal works, almost like a field trip.

Personally though, I'm not against or for disections, I don't like them. I cannot stand seeing blood oozing out of something without looseing my lunch. I also have this weird reaction to the sound of squeeking rubber, so I can't put on rubber gloves. :(
 
Blissey_ODonnell said:
What justification can you give making a line to divide those animals that are "just a _____" and ones whose lives are valuable? It's purely arbitrary, unless you can provide a trait that the "valuable" animals have that the "invaluable" animals don't, and whether or not that trait is sole reason enough to justify to make killing acceptable or unacceptable.
Click to expand...

The line is at humans, because you can't prove that anything else is sentient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
 
L said:
Most of the animals used for dissection are bred for that sole purpose in mind.
Click to expand...

And you're a little late to save their life since most of the main dissection animals (frogs, cats, etc) are already dead before you even lay eyes on them.

My AP Bio class actually had computers in it and we had the option when we got to dissecting frogs to use a computer simulation instead. Eventually I'm sure more schools will move toward using this approach to teach. I can't help but feel it's a bit lacking without being able to truly touch and see the insides, though.

Is dissection necessary? Probably not but it's a good hands on approach to getting a feel for anatomy and more kids are likely to pay attention to this versus a video or slide show.
 
CasMat said:
The line is at humans, because you can't prove that anything else is sentient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure there's little reason to label sentience as being the sole quality necessary to label an organism important. There are plenty of people who, despite being sentient, I can easily label as less important than some non-sentient creatures I know of.

That said, I'm pretty indifferent to dissection. I've done enough and I thoroughly disliked it all, but, also, I learned jack squat in all of the dissections I've done. There may be people who do learn better on that type of hands-on approach, even though I myself was simply annoyed with how much trouble it was and how I learned nothing from it. Even now, half way through medical school on my way to becoming a Pharmacist, I can't say that dissection was beneficial for me concerning the function or structure of living things.

I wouldn't be complaining if I were you. First of all, it's a worm; easy as hell to dissect and possesses next to no consciousness. Second, you don't seem to believe the morals you say you believe if you're just going to shrug them off because it's too much trouble.

I am against dissecting cats, because they're fuzzy.
 
Disection has, however, lead me to want to become a pathologist later in life, so cutting up those frogs and cats does have benefits.
 
Maybe this will come off as being crass, but whatever.

I've always really enjoyed dissection labs. In fact, I took anatomy during my senior year of high school just purely for the fact that we got to dissect things. Stuff I've dissected before include worms, frogs, fetal pigs, a pig's heart, lamb's eyeball, squid, cat, and a human cadaver. (Although to be specific, the human cadaver had already been thoroughly cut open- my biology class just got to poke around.) My favorite was probably the cat, although removing the skin/fur was pretty annoying, and my least favorite was probably the human cadaver just because the ventilation was really bad and I started to get really sick from the formaldehyde fumes.

Why do I like it? I just think it's really fun and exciting, and it's interesting to actually see with my own eyes all the organs inside and how they're organized. I don't have any qualms about dissecting animals because it's essentially the same as slaughtering them to be eaten- if they're being killed, then you might as well get something useful out of it. (And yes, I do realize that the cat was an exception since most people don't eat cats.) Furthermore, the human cadaver was from a donor, so the person had specifically wished for his body to be used for science after death.
 
If we were mass harvesting frogs from the wild of course I would be against it. In this case however, we are not. We are using frogs that were made for nothing more than to be used for the dissection.
Click to expand...

Unnecessary killing is unjust.

Don't let your outrage for injustice end where your selfishness begins my friend.
 
I actually agree with the OP in that it's a pretty needless waste of resources at the junior high / high school level. But for a real biology class...come on, it's necessary.
 
Unnecessary killing is unjust.
Click to expand...
QFT

I'm gonna say here that I feel very lucky I don't have to dissect anything except rat furballs (stuff the owls spit out after eating their prey). I personally dislike dissection because its unjust killing, and I encourage you to stand up to your teacher and say that its wrong right in his or her face without standing back.

If it's a dead worm then eh...just do it.
 
Ambitions said:
Unnecessary killing is unjust.

Don't let your outrage for injustice end where your selfishness begins my friend.
Click to expand...

It is not unnecessary. Dissections have led to numerous discoveries as to how the bodies of certain animals (including humans) work. It is far from useless, it allows us to get a very close hand-on look at the organs of an animal.
 
Ambitions said:
Unnecessary killing is unjust.

Don't let your outrage for injustice end where your selfishness begins my friend.
Click to expand...

I know the pig that I dissected in middle school were unborn fetal pigs: IE: they never would have lived anyway. I don't see how it was "unnecessary killing" when
1. They were already dead (in my case anyway)
2. Leads to scientific discovery as well as education

Its kinda like human dissection for those who go into med school: they were already dead. We don't kill humans to dissect them. The only difference is that the pig / cat doesn't decide whether or not they want to put their body up for a dissection...

-------------

The above only applies to the cats / pigs / humans of course. I find it hard pressed that anyone would care about worm dissections though... considering that the construction of your house, driveway, and sidewalk probably killed more worms than you'll ever dissect in your lifetime.
 
The above only applies to the cats / pigs / humans of course. I find it hard pressed that anyone would care about worm dissections though... considering that the construction of your house, driveway, and sidewalk probably killed more worms than you'll ever dissect in your lifetime.
Click to expand...
That's because they went murdered unnoticed.

It is not unnecessary. Dissections have led to numerous discoveries as to how the bodies of certain animals (including humans) work
Click to expand...
Except that the lab isn't gonna do anything but get the dissector a grade. The chances of a student discovering something extremely interesting in this lab that was never found before is ridiculous.
 
L said:
It is not unnecessary. Dissections have led to numerous discoveries as to how the bodies of certain animals (including humans) work. It is far from useless, it allows us to get a very close hand-on look at the organs of an animal.
Click to expand...

While that's most definitely true and I agree absolutely, it's still a bit useless in middle school or high school to be bothering. Most of the students participating seem to not get much out of it except an annoyance and a mess.

No way in hell am I going to claim that dissections are inherently bad or pointless, but in a setting that's not strictly medically-related, it seems a bit of a waste of both the specimen and most of the students' time to do something hands-on.

Although, the health curriculum in general of the vast majority of schools need to be overhauled, since the majority of people know nearly jack squat concerning their bodies after going through school, so this is probably a comparatively minor point.
 
Uh, well I did the whole fetal pig dissection in class a week or two ago, and it wasn't really as gross as I thought it would be (except breaking the jaw, that was really gross). I agree that its not really particularly necessary, especially in just your average highschool bio class, but I will defend it by saying that I walked away with a much more thorough understanding of anatomy than I had before, so yeah while it may be a little unnecessary, it definitely does reinforce what you learn in bio in a way that not much else can. Either way, I doubt dissection will really be around for too much longer, considering the advent of all these computer simulated versions
 
I agree that people actually studying biology should get the chance to dissect, because they actually learn from it and it will be far more useful to them than a simulation or whatever, unlike the high school freshman.
 
Jibaku said:
Except that the lab isn't gonna do anything but get the dissector a grade. The chances of a student discovering something extremely interesting in this lab that was never found before is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Everyone has to start somewhere, even if the final result doesn't originate from the school lab. That dissection might serve as the first step on a longer journey of many dissections and dead animals that will produce a result. The real question is whether that's worth the cost in animal life.

For me it's subjective. If you ask me to dissect a worm, no prob. Fetal pig? I felt bad for a sec, and then started cutting. Same with a cow lung and frog's eyeball. If someone asked me to dissect a gorilla, I'd object heavily. Now, I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, but I know I don't value all organisms equally. Policy towards animal dissection will probably be formed from a similar standard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top