Pokémon Donphan

[nkhlshnd99]

You know what does all of that and more? Excadrill. Its Mold Breaker Earthquake easily beats Gengar and Aegislash, not to mention Rotom-W, the most common Pokemon in the metagame. What can Donphan do to Rotom-W? That's right, nothing! Plus, get this. Excadrill is actually useful outside of Rapid Spin! Imagine that! Excadrill actually has offensive presence, isn't complete setup fodder, and has a decent Speed tier. Donphan has literally nothing worthwhile over Excadrill.

Also, "useful priority"?

-1 0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 80-96 (20.99 - 25.19%) -- possible 5HKO

Please. It can't even guarantee a 5HKO on a 4x weakness. If you want a Ground-type with Rapid Spin, use Excadrill. If you want a Ground-type without Rapid Spin, use Hippowdon. Or Landorus-T. Or Garchomp. Or Landorus-I. Or Gliscor. Anything but Donphan, the laughingstock of the OU tier.

Don't forget mamoswine who's ice shard is much stronger than donphans even guaranteeing ohko's on dragons.

 

[JackTheGordie]

Sure, Donphan is bulky. But that begs the question, "Why not just use Hippowdon?" Hippowdon is far bulkier than Donphan (especially in terms of special bulk), has Whirlwind to prevent itself from being major setup bait, and, most importantly, reliable recovery. This allows it to function as a far better wall than Donphan ever could. Yes, Donphan has Rapid Spin, but it is bad on offensive teams because it has very little offensive presence, and it is mediocre on defensive teams because it has no recovery and is straight-up outclassed as a wall by Hippo. Offensive teams would much, much rather use Excadrill or Starmie if they needed to remove hazards for obvious reasons, whereas defensive teams have Defog Skarmory and Mandibuzz to remove hazards without wasting a slot on an otherwise bad Pokemon in Donphan. Donphan is outclassed in any role it can perform on both offensive and defensive teams.

And to the guy who mentioned using Gunk Shot, Thunder Fang, or Bounce on Donphan: No. Just no.

I disagree about very little offensive presence. STAB EQ coming off base 120 attack? It can hurt what it needs to. Priority is good and useful aswell. Knock off let's it beat some spinblockers while also providing utility aswell. Also here's how i look at donphan against the pokes that "outclass him"

Hippowdon
Bulky:Yes
Spinner:No

Excadrill/Starmie
Bulky: -___- Do i have to answer this?
Spinner:Yes

Donphan
Bulky:Yes
Spinner:Yes

Donphan fits in mostly as a jack-of-all-trades while the others are kings of a trade, 8's of another. And as for defoggers, skarm could probably doing better things like spiking, taunting, BBing, roosting, phaizng etc. And for people who don't want to lose their own hazards like myself, i try staying away from defog as much as possible.

 

[rachet67]

Don't forget mamoswine who's ice shard is much stronger than donphans even guaranteeing ohko's on dragons.

Just for some perspective on just how game breaking donphan's ice shard is:

0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 34-41 (9.9 - 12%)
0 SpA Sunkern Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 33-40 (9.6 - 11.7%)

I disagree about very little offensive presence. STAB EQ coming off base 120 attack? It can hurt what it needs to. Also here's how i look at donphan against the pokes that "outclass him"

Donphan has no offensive pressence because it can't afford to invest in attack if its going to stay alive, especially with no recovery. Not to mention that earthquake/ice shard or earthquake/knock off is pretty pathetic coverage. Just because its not completely eclipsed doesn't mean its a good pokemon by any means. Thats why it is viable as a last resort.

 

[JackTheGordie]

Just for some perspective:

0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 34-41 (9.9 - 12%)
0 SpA Sunkern Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 33-40 (9.6 - 11.7%)

That's not even a fair comparison. Sunkern is a top tier offensive threat, whereas donphan is a defensive wall. No seriously you're never gonna use ice shard against something like that unless you're a. About to die
Or b. Have it within ~10% HP anyway. Otherwise you'll just be KO/EQ spamming. Only time where you'll be really be using ice shard other than that is against a 4x weakness or ground resist.

 

[Magnemite]

I disagree about very little offensive presence. STAB EQ coming off base 120 attack? It can hurt what it needs to. Priority is good and useful aswell. Knock off let's it beat some spinblockers while also providing utility aswell. Also here's how i look at donphan against the pokes that "outclass him"

Hippowdon
Bulky:Yes
Spinner:No

Excadrill/Starmie
Bulky: -___- Do i have to answer this?
Spinner:Yes

Donphan
Bulky:Yes
Spinner:Yes

Donphan fits in mostly as a jack-of-all-trades while the others are kings of a trade, 8's of another. And as for defoggers, skarm could probably doing better things like spiking, taunting, BBing, roosting, phaizng etc. And for people who don't want to lose their own hazards like myself, i try staying away from defog as much as possible.

Donphan's bulkiness doesn't make up for its flaws when comparing it to other spinners. It's rather weak when you don't invest into its offenses, and it's not very bulky when you do. Do you really need your spinner to be bulky? Especially on offensive teams, where using Donphan is pathetically weak and kills your momentum like there's no tomorrow? Also, offensive teams can use Latios, Latias, or Scizor as fantastic offensive defoggers. (Not on hyper offense, obviously, spinners are better in that case, but certainly not Donphan) If you need a bulky hazard remover for defensive teams, there are simply better options available. Defoggers are much better than spinners on stall because Defog can't be blocked and stall teams are bulky enough to be able to set SR up multiple times a match. I acknowledge that Donphan has a small niche, but is that a big enough niche for it to be OU, let alone for it to be OU instead of fantastic Pokemon like Manaphy, Latias, Keldeo, Terrakion, or Deoxys-S? Absolutely not.

Also, more fun with 4x super effective Ice Shard:
0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 244 HP / 40+ Def Gliscor: 100-120 (28.4 - 34.09%) -- possible 5HKO

 

[rachet67]

That's not even a fair comparison. Sunkern is a top tier threat offensive threat, whereas donphan is a defensive wall. No seriously you're never gonna use ice shard against something like that unless you're a. About to die
Or b. Have it within ~10% HP anyway. Otherwise you'll just be KO/EQ spamming. Only time where you'll be really be using ice shard other than that is against a 4x weakness or ground resist.

I wouldn't call donophan a wall really, as with no recovery, all it can really do is slow physical attackers down until its overwhelmed. Even against 4x weak mons, ice shard can't KO.

0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 148-176 (46.2 - 55%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO

That's pretty much the most you'll ever see it do.

 

[LoDart210]

Sure, Donphan is bulky. But that begs the question, "Why not just use Hippowdon?" Hippowdon is far bulkier than Donphan (especially in terms of special bulk), has Whirlwind to prevent itself from being major setup bait, and, most importantly, reliable recovery. This allows it to function as a far better wall than Donphan ever could. Yes, Donphan has Rapid Spin, but it is bad on offensive teams because it has very little offensive presence, and it is mediocre on defensive teams because it has no recovery and is straight-up outclassed as a wall by Hippo. Offensive teams would much, much rather use Excadrill or Starmie if they needed to remove hazards for obvious reasons, whereas defensive teams have Defog Skarmory and Mandibuzz to remove hazards without wasting a slot on an otherwise bad Pokemon in Donphan. Donphan is outclassed in any role it can perform on both offensive and defensive teams.

And to the guy who mentioned using Gunk Shot, Thunder Fang, or Bounce on Donphan: No. Just no.

Because donphan is a bulky utility mon. He's a hazard clearer as well as a spinner who can get the spin off more than excadrill.

Yes, excadrill has mold breaker eq which can wreck gengar.... As can donphan's knock off, while also being able to take a focus blast.

Why do you bother mentioning rotom at all? Donphan's job isn't to deal damage, but set up hazards, clear them, and tank certain Pokemon. Donphan does an excellent job of taking out deadly Pokemon that underestimate it:

4 Atk Donphan Rock Slide vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 340-400 (106.5 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As for dragonite...
4 Atk Donphan Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 67-79 (20.6 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Then

4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 144-172 (44.4 - 53%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO

Meanwhile...

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 141-166 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And we all know dragonite rarely runs adamant.

Oh, about that quad weakness you mentioned earlier (you used lando-t who donphan has no business staying in on because if a lando t is sent in on donphan its to put up rocks which donphan can reliably do while tanking any attack lando sends its way)

Here's garchomp

4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 144-172 (40.2 - 48%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Meanwhile...

252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 84-99 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Double the damage out put after a SD and you got a possible KO but no luck there because ice shard will wreck.


My point is you scorn donphan because it doesn't have the offensive presence of excadrill nor the bulk or utility to rival hippowdon, which, physically it does.

Excadrill is an offensive speedy spinner, compare it to starmie, not donphan.

As for hippowdon, your claims of it having better utility is laughable.

Donphan gets roar to match whirlwind.... As well as rocks, rapid spin, sandstorm, sunny day, endeavor, knock off, AND priority and sturdy as a safety cushion.

C'mon. This hatred toward donphan is because he isn't flashy, isn't new, and doesn't command the scene but works tirelessly to do the mundane work that needs to be done, a true tank tread.

 

[Magnemite]

As for hippowdon, your claims of it having better utility is laughable.
Donphan gets roar to match whirlwind, rocks, rapid spin, sandstorm

Right, because it's not like Hippo can set up Sandstorm or anything... >.> The only utility Donphan has over Hippo is Rapid Spin, which I acknowledged. Hippo has reliable recovery and better defenses, both of which make it a much better wall that Donphan and its pathetic little Ice Shard could ever dream of being.

 

[JackTheGordie]

I wouldn't call donophan a wall really, as with no recovery, all it can really do is slow physical attackers down until its overwhelmed. Even against 4x weak mons, ice shard can't KO.

0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 148-176 (46.2 - 55%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO

That's pretty much the most you'll ever see it do.

Ok but it's not about the fact that it doesn't OHKO things it's the fact that it's there to pick off weakened mons when it has to. And still like i said earlier it's more of a jack of all trades pokemon. Are there things that can perform donphan's individual roles better than donphan? Yes there's no denying that. Are there things that can perform everything donphan can in one set? No. That's why it's in OU. Why would i use hippo for a defensive SR setter and wall AND use excadrill or starmie or any defogger as a hazard remover when donphan does both? If you have team slots to work worth than ok but if not, donphan fits pretty well as an all-in-one defensive mon most of the time.

Edit: Magnemite doesn't hippo not get Knock Off? Another advantage donphan has over other bulky grounds/spinners

 

[LoDart210]

Right, because it's not like Hippo can set up Sandstorm or anything... >.> The only utility Donphan has over Hippo is Rapid Spin, which I acknowledged. Hippo has reliable recovery and better defenses, both of which make it a much better wall that Donphan and its pathetic little Ice Shard could ever dream of being.

I only mentioned sandstorm because I wanted to say how donphan could match hippowdon. And stop trying to say it sucks because ice shard is weak. Get over that, no one said its a nuke.

I hope you don't think nitpicking things like sandstorm and ice shard means you've proved anything.

 

[Baharoth]

Honestly whats the point of comparing donphan with hippo? Nobodys going to use donphan without rapid spin on it and hippo doesnt get rapid spin so that comparision is so completely useless. Donphan is a SR setter and Rapidspinner with solid physical bulk and nothing else. If u need something like that on ur team, donphan is a very solid choice. If not go for one of the other spinners around. His offensive presence is just fine even without attack investment, eq does solid dmg anyway same with his utility/coverage moves.

Honestly whats the reason of all that ridicuolus donphan hate here? If u dont like it, dont use it.

 

[skies]

Honestly whats the point of comparing donphan with hippo? Nobodys going to use donphan without rapid spin on it and hippo doesnt get rapid spin so that comparision is so completely useless. Donphan is a SR setter and Rapidspinner with solid physical bulk and nothing else. If u need something like that on ur team, donphan is a very solid choice. If not got for one of the other spinners around. His offensive presence is just fine even without attack investment, eq does solid dmg anyway and his utility/coverage moves also do their job.

Honestly whats the reason of all that ridicuolus donphan hate here? If u dont like, dont use it.

Except that Donphan lacks recovery, while Hippo does, Hippo has better bulk. Hell, Mandibuzz outclasses it, Defog is too easy to come by.

Hide

I am a firm believer of Donphan going to RU, as I thought it always should have.

EDIT - just saw the "don't like it don't use it", that is a very bad way to convince someone to use a Pokemon, people don't want to use it and are trying to get people not to use it because it is plain horrible.

 

[Baharoth]

Except that Donphan lacks recovery, while Hippo does, Hippo has better bulk. Hell, Mandibuzz outclasses it, Defog is too easy to come by.

Honestly whats the point of comparing donphan with hippo?

Did u even read the first sentence of my post before u quoted it? I recommend u do.

EDIT - just saw the "don't like it don't use it", that is a very bad way to convince someone to use a Pokemon, people don't want to use it and are trying to get people not to use it because it is plain horrible.

There is no need to convince anyone to use it. Obviously there are more than enough players out there that understand how good donphan is. Whether or not the rest understands it as well is not my problem.

I read it, but I'm explaining to you why people are comparing them, they're very similar.

No they are not -_-

Before everything else donphan is a rapidspinner, again, NOBODY will EVER use it without rapid spin. And hippo doesnt get Rapidspin or Defog so they fill COMPLETELY different roles.

 

[skies]

Did u even read the first sentence of my post before u quoted it? I recommend u do.

I read it, but I'm explaining to you why people are comparing them, they're very similar.

 

[LoDart210]

This may be a far fetched opinion coming from someone who actually likes donphan, but I'd like him to drop down to UU.

I'm just arguing that he is OU viable, and can certainly hold his own against the OU titans

 

[JackTheGordie]

Ok here's the rough summary of hippowdon vs donphan for everyone in this thread before this turns into crawdaunt vs azumarill:

Hippowdon
Better overall bulk
Recovery
Argueably better ability

Donphan
Rapid Spin
Better utility(Knock Off access)
More coverage options+Priority
Slightly higher attack stat=more offensive presence.

 

[rachet67]

While I think that donphan is niche in OU, and shouldn't be used over other spinners in most situations, people need to stop comparing hippowdon and donphan. Donphan is used first as a spinner and second as a "wall" (not a terrific one). Hippowdon is used as a wall and phazer, not a spinner. Comparing them is completely irrelevant to how viable donphan is. Donphan's numerous flaws stand for themselves. It's certainly viable in OU, just as a last resort.


And goddamnit, do you know how hard it is to write about donphan, when spell check automatically changes it to "dolphin" everytime.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

Donphan's niche as a bulky spinner is not nearly enough to justify it's higher usage over Terrakion, Landorus-I, Keldeo, Latias, Kyurem-B, Starmie, Deoxys-S, Tornadus-T and Bisharp. There are just so many better ways to remove entry hazards than using a Donphan. Excadrill, while more frail physically, has better special bulk, more power, isn't slow as all hell, and a Mold Breaker EQ that comes in extremely handy for dealing with Levitate users like the most common pokemon in OU, Rotom-W. It also has 8 resistances and 2 immunities, which especially with an Air Balloon will give Excadrill plenty of opportunities to spin hazards. Starmie is the fastest spinner in the game barring Sand Rush Excadrill, and while it struggles to get through the most common ghost type in Aegislash it still is super fast, and harder to revenge kill than a Donphan. Hell, even Tentacruel is an option that lot of utility in it's decent speed, typing, special bulk and utility in Knock Off + Toxic Spikes. That's just Rapid Spinners; that doesn't even get into the amount of Defoggers which can also function as a better wall than Donphan. Mandibuzz, Mega-Scizor, Latias, Skarmory. All of which, unlike Donphan have reliable recovery as well as much better options to support their team.

Secondly, stop acting like Donphan can use 252 EVs in every stat, as well as Earthquake, Rock Slide, Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Seed Bomb, Roar, Ice Shard, Play Rough and Toxic in one set. Donphan needs each one of those moves either for utility or to not be walled by another top threat (Ice Shard, Gliscor/Landorus-T. Seed Bomb, Rotom-W. Rock coverage, Charizard-Y/Talonflame). If it runs Adamant, then it's 2HKOed by top threats like Banded Talonflame and if it goes bulky then it becomes incredibly weak and becomes setup bait for a variety of pokemon that don't mind it's weak, uninvested coverage moves. Donphan is also pathetically frail on the Special side and is almost useless against teams that mostly uses Special attackers. As much as I'm shitting on Donphan right now, it's not completely useless. It has good utility in it's Physical bulk and movepool but it should only be used as a last resort if absolutely no other method of removing hazards work for a SR weak team. UU is in desperate need of more viable spinners right now, which is why I'd really like to see Donphan, Tentacruel and Forretress drop; there are much better options in OU for all 3 that aren't going to be a huge liability a good chunk of the time.

For the person who posted the Rock Polish Donphan set..just no, Landorus-I still does that much better.

 

[Bunnelby]

Something happened and messed up my post. Ignore this.

 

[midend]

If everyone is arguing that
1. Its bulk pales in comparison
2. Lacks offensive presence without investment
Why not do both? I've seen quite a number of competitive people run this:

Phantastic sturdy abuser@custap
252atk/252def or hp/4spD adamant
knock off/shard/roar
SR/Shard
EQ/tomb
RS

Terrible. Look at that 4msss. Donphan abusing custap/sturdy gives it a shitload of options.
1. Should i nail my opponent with a fast powerful EQ before i go down?
2. Do i need those rocks up?
3. Spin away those hazards?
4. Lower the foe's speed so my teammate can come in in a better position?
5. Roar away a deadly setup sweeper with 1hp to spare?
6. Nail pesky dragons with 4x ice shard for the win?
7. Knock off an item, potentially crippling an enemy?

This thing still gets shit on by priority users as custap does not bypass priority over stages.
I like this set because donphan isnt dead weight, still possess offensive presence and custap practically makes it "king of last ditch effort" but yes, phanphan is a uu poke, which struggles in ou yet used because of rapid spin. It is by no means bad, just that excadrill does its job generally better, and defog is always an option.
Also, bisharp is uu isnt it? time for Donphan to check some mate there

 

[Toljik]

Sunkern is a top tier threat offensive threat
Sunkern is a top tier threat offensive threat
...Yeah.

No opinion on Donphan, but you're pretty bad at reading sarcasm.

 

[Bunnelby]

It's really easy to read sarcasm over then internet when you can't even hear their tone of voice.
Either way, bleh :C

 

[midend]

No opinion on Donphan, but you're pretty bad at reading sarcasm.

it rivals magikarp's flail! Kern4uber

 

[skies]

Donphan's niche as a bulky spinner is not nearly enough to justify it's higher usage over Terrakion, Landorus-I, Keldeo, Latias, Kyurem-B, Starmie, Deoxys-S, Tornadus-T and Bisharp. There are just so many better ways to remove entry hazards than using a Donphan. Excadrill, while more frail physically, has better special bulk, more power, isn't slow as all hell, and a Mold Breaker EQ that comes in extremely handy for dealing with Levitate users like the most common pokemon in OU, Rotom-W. It also has 8 resistances and 2 immunities, which especially with an Air Balloon will give Excadrill plenty of opportunities to spin hazards. Starmie is the fastest spinner in the game barring Sand Rush Excadrill, and while it struggles to get through the most common ghost type in Aegislash it still is super fast, and harder to revenge kill than a Donphan. Hell, even Tentacruel is an option that lot of utility in it's decent speed, typing, special bulk and utility in Knock Off + Toxic Spikes. That's just Rapid Spinners; that doesn't even get into the amount of Defoggers which can also function as a better wall than Donphan. Mandibuzz, Mega-Scizor, Latias, Skarmory. All of which, unlike Donphan have reliable recovery as well as much better options to support their team.

Secondly, stop acting like Donphan can use 252 EVs in every stat, as well as Earthquake, Rock Slide, Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Seed Bomb, Roar, Ice Shard, Play Rough and Toxic in one set. Donphan needs each one of those moves either for utility or to not be walled by another top threat (Ice Shard, Gliscor/Landorus-T. Seed Bomb, Rotom-W. Rock coverage, Charizard-Y/Talonflame). If it runs Adamant, then it's 2HKOed by top threats like Banded Talonflame and if it goes bulky then it becomes incredibly weak and becomes setup bait for a variety of pokemon that don't mind it's weak, uninvested coverage moves. Donphan is also pathetically frail on the Special side and is almost useless against teams that mostly uses Special attackers. As much as I'm shitting on Donphan right now, it's not completely useless. It has good utility in it's Physical bulk and movepool but it should only be used as a last resort if absolutely no other method of removing hazards work for a SR weak team. UU is in desperate need of more viable spinners right now, which is why I'd really like to see Donphan, Tentacruel and Forretress drop; there are much better options in OU for all 3 that aren't going to be a huge liability a good chunk of the time.

For the person who posted the Rock Polish Donphan set..just no, Landorus-I still does that much better.

Best post in this entire thread, nominating it for most intelligent post 2000 + 14.

 

[probationsmack]

All I'm gonna say is that assault vest donphan is a pretty cool guy. I think I just make him impish and max out his special defense and hp evs. At that point he's got decent stats all the way around bar a special attack you'll never need to use. Makes a good wish recepient. If he's at like, 75ish health he can usually get a spin off when the other player was expecting to ko him with a water move or whatever. Nice surprise factor. Also takes those stupid random hp ices or whatnot very well. Knock off is just extra gravy. The only qualm is what to put in the fourth slot, but I usually default to stone edge.