Torrent > Ghostship? There's not much else unless you combo with other heroes (like Shadow Demon's Disruption).
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Dota 2
- Thread starter Fishin
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I'm surprised no one is complaining about Huskar being terrible in competitive play...
Anyways, my main thoughts on the patch in no particular order:
-Naga's base damage got hit hard. She is going to suck at last hitting well into the early game.
-Morph cost increase should make Morphling a lot more susceptible to ganks and make it much harder to flee bad teamfights
-Leshrac's cast animation is now applied to Edict, meaning be able to focus down an enemy hero without help will be almost impossible
-PL might actually be usable?!
-SF's Ult passive might be really, really good
-Batrider got some definitely needed buffs to his Strength and Firefly.
-Sniper needs a complete skill reboot if wants any shot at being decent.
Every hero is decent in pubs... as an example, Huskar, like Temperantia said, is not used in competitive, but it's pretty much the #1 pubstomper. My point is that Icefrog's idea of nerfing the big boys and buffing underused stuff might not really change the meta because those heroes don't work the way they are now, they need skill reworks.
Try to not use X first. Landing a torrent alone is harder and you will miss a lot if you never really touched Kunkka, he's a hard hero to master anyway, but the payoff can be big.
Torrent slows a bit after the disable, so it eases a bit to land a ship, but the ship is not that fast (650ms or something), so targeting exactly where the enemies are is not always the wise idea. At last, having X for the aftermath is usually better imo since you can catch a fleeing enemy, break a channeling etc.
I agree in general, though I think that the nerf to lycan specifically will probably allow him to not be banned every game. His jungle game is severely weakened, which requires a lot less investment from the opposing team to stop. Additionally, although I think the nerfs to naga aren't super significant, she is more likely to make it through bans and she is a fantastic lycan counter.
And come on let's be honest meepo is pretty shit in pubs. And as much as I like playing chen he's a hero that needs a lot of team coordination.
Kunkka needs to lane with another hero to set up torrent. It's as simple as that. Shadow Demon is a fun one but any ranged support with a stun (or veno) works too.
from dotafire's guide to kunkka:
Also, if you're planning on carrying as him you need to make sure to get as much farm as possible to be even mildly effective.
HEROES NEW PLAYERS SHOULD PROBABLY PLAY
HEROES NEW PLAYERS SHOULD PROBABLY STAY AWAY FROM FOR A VERY LONG TIME
I'd recommend heroes with simple concepts: some STR heroes usually fit this, like Leoric/Sven/Dragon Knight, basically stunning and right clicking, but well if you wanna try all the roles, my thoughts would be Tidehunter for initiating, Ursa/Huskar for pubstomping carrying, those STR heroes I listed as tanks, Ogre Magi/Lich for support.
Basically avoid most hard carries, non-targeted disablers/gankers like Kunkka/Pudge/Mirana, micro-required heroes like Meepo/Chen/Visage and avoid Invoker for the greater good. There are a lot of good tutorials around the internet, but you'll learn more practing than reading.
Basically avoid most hard carries, non-targeted disablers/gankers like Kunkka/Pudge/Mirana, micro-required heroes like Meepo/Chen/Visage and avoid Invoker for the greater good. There are a lot of good tutorials around the internet, but you'll learn more practing than reading.
omg you can???? It is SO frustrating to learn how to cs and deny vs those fucking mechanically perfect things
Don't listen to those guys, play whoever the hell you want. Also don't bother practicing with bots, jump right into regular games (not captain's mode, though).
Also playing Invoker is way easier for some people than micro heroes like Visage or Chen. Depends on what you tend to be good at (memory and reaction time versus having five hands), really.
Also playing Invoker is way easier for some people than micro heroes like Visage or Chen. Depends on what you tend to be good at (memory and reaction time versus having five hands), really.
That's why a lot of people give up easily and that's why the MM games are usually one-sided. Playing with bots is absolutely necessary if you have no clue how the game works, you might not give a fuck if you lose since you are still learning, but you'll ruin a match for 9 people and that's not funny (plus you'll be a dead weight for your team if you don't know how your hero works) The dota community is not friendly to newcomers, especially if they think they know everything. Most people who started on dota 2 are cocky as hell just because they stomp with Huskar/Lycan/TA and don't listen to anyone.
It's a vicious cycle that keeps killing the community: veterans don't have patience, newcomers are too confident.
I kinda agree with Invoker being sometimes easier than micro heroes tho, I have a friend new to dota that learned Invoker on the beginning because he had past experiences with games like ragnarok which requires fast hands and stuff. He's pretty decent using him.
Wait people who just started dota 2 can stomp with TA? I have like 800 wins and I am shit with TA =(
Also as someone that plays both invoker and many "micro" heroes, invoker is hands down easier. It isn't even close. Not only is the micro required to play him not particularly intensive once you have memorized his skills, he is straightforward to play in terms of positioning and map awareness and is difficult to kill even if you don't go QW. Even if you aren't fantastic with him he is powerful enough that you can still dominate.
By pub standards I can play a pretty stellar chen, and the stuff you have to consider with him is miles away from every other hero. His micro is difficult in teamfights, it is easy to screw your team by sending someone home or using hand of god at a bad time, and you generally have to be in all the right places without using tp scrolls since your creeps are slow as shit. Not to mention that he is slow and fragile himself. IMO the only heroes more challenging than chen are visage and meepo, and visage is really only because it's difficult to click on the familiars (and hotkeying sucks because they are identical).
Also as someone that plays both invoker and many "micro" heroes, invoker is hands down easier. It isn't even close. Not only is the micro required to play him not particularly intensive once you have memorized his skills, he is straightforward to play in terms of positioning and map awareness and is difficult to kill even if you don't go QW. Even if you aren't fantastic with him he is powerful enough that you can still dominate.
By pub standards I can play a pretty stellar chen, and the stuff you have to consider with him is miles away from every other hero. His micro is difficult in teamfights, it is easy to screw your team by sending someone home or using hand of god at a bad time, and you generally have to be in all the right places without using tp scrolls since your creeps are slow as shit. Not to mention that he is slow and fragile himself. IMO the only heroes more challenging than chen are visage and meepo, and visage is really only because it's difficult to click on the familiars (and hotkeying sucks because they are identical).
Well she isn't exactly a very micro intensive hero. Once you get your farm, all you need to be doing with those illusions is a-clicking and having basic positioning for your riptides.
She is quite a simple carry, however, her ult has the potential to fuck over not only the enemy completely, but the your own team as well.
I have seen far to nagas make useless sk or enigma ults, usually through a lack of communication.
Well if your team gets you good farm (and they should) then radiance is a solid first item to get. In that case you should be sending illusions individually to jungle camps or to push lanes, which does take a little bit of micro. But the penalty for screwing it up isn't huge, you just don't farm as fast.
Naga overall is pretty easy to use as far as carries go since she's extremely difficult to kill after level 6. You dont need to micro illusions much in a teamfight, maybe if they have an sk or enigma send one out to find them so they can't blink on your whole team.
Most heroes' summons are not particularly difficult to use. I'd say besides chen and visage all the "micro-intensive" heroes really aren't difficult (or are difficult for reasons unrelated to their summons like furion)
Despite having similar purposes, Enchantress is much, much easier than Chen for a few reasons. One is that Enchant has a rather small cooldown, so fucking up what you wanted to do with your creeps isn't nearly as big of a deal. Another is that she doesn't really use her creeps to push (because of the time limit on them) but rather to spam their skills and jungle easily. In addition, her skills (Nature's Attendant, Untouchable and Enchant when used on an enemy) can make her insanely difficult to kill. Also, she can semi-carry pretty damn effectively with her tankiness and Impetus.
tl;dr: New players should pick Enchantress if they want to try/practice with a micro-intensive hero.
tl;dr: New players should pick Enchantress if they want to try/practice with a micro-intensive hero.
This is actually false. One of the reasons Enchantress can be better than Chen is because of pushing. She is able to control more creeps than Chen (for most of the early game), and her heal helps with this as well. The time limit (among other things) makes Enchantress lose its effectiveness past mid-game, meaning you'll have to try and fit her in a pushing lineup. Chen can fit in any lineup, and that's why we see him more than Enchantress.
Yeah, queuing the ult-blink-stun combo is really handy and sometimes stops you from accidently fucking up your channelling.
When I play SK I usually farm him as a 3. Being able to get that blink dagger really fast is devastating, but if the team composition requires it he can happily suicide lane as a 4 or a 5 (in this case don't bother getting treads or mana boots before blink, just stay in the lane and don't die).
Other than that, initiate from a safe distance or out of vision (the last thing you want is to have your ult cancelled with its massive CD), and don't get picked off or caught out of position. Positioning is so important when it comes to playing him.
Oh, and with lv 4 sandstorm and its ridiculously low CD, dodging most projectiles is quite possible. Kinda an advanced technique but really nice when used properly.
EDIT: Don't be afraid to play like a crazyman or die either (after you pop epicentre that is). Sometimes a suicide ult into the thick of a bunched up enemy team is worth the tradeoff. That, and risky plays are often the most fun.
When I play SK I usually farm him as a 3. Being able to get that blink dagger really fast is devastating, but if the team composition requires it he can happily suicide lane as a 4 or a 5 (in this case don't bother getting treads or mana boots before blink, just stay in the lane and don't die).
Other than that, initiate from a safe distance or out of vision (the last thing you want is to have your ult cancelled with its massive CD), and don't get picked off or caught out of position. Positioning is so important when it comes to playing him.
Oh, and with lv 4 sandstorm and its ridiculously low CD, dodging most projectiles is quite possible. Kinda an advanced technique but really nice when used properly.
EDIT: Don't be afraid to play like a crazyman or die either (after you pop epicentre that is). Sometimes a suicide ult into the thick of a bunched up enemy team is worth the tradeoff. That, and risky plays are often the most fun.
So I'm a noob. Quite literally as I have played all of 5 games.
I think I'm gonna stick with Chaos Knight, Lich, and Tide hunter until I'm bold enough to start trying carries. And by bold enough, I mean know what the hell is going on with builds. Does anyone have any advice on what items are great for certain roles? (besides what the game tells you for recommended builds.)
I've been poking around dotafire a bit, and seen a few other really great beginners guides, but the whole idea of getting your build together, when to buy what, etc is just kind of...intimidating.
Probably because I picked up the game and immediately met the cliff that it calls a learning curve. I'm spoiled by Leagues.
I think I'm gonna stick with Chaos Knight, Lich, and Tide hunter until I'm bold enough to start trying carries. And by bold enough, I mean know what the hell is going on with builds. Does anyone have any advice on what items are great for certain roles? (besides what the game tells you for recommended builds.)
I've been poking around dotafire a bit, and seen a few other really great beginners guides, but the whole idea of getting your build together, when to buy what, etc is just kind of...intimidating.
Probably because I picked up the game and immediately met the cliff that it calls a learning curve. I'm spoiled by Leagues.
chaos knight actually is a hard-carry, and a bit of a tricky one to master at that. But if you're finding him okay to play, go for it! Otherwise, Skeleton king fits the same role and is a bit more forgiving to beginners .
As for builds, just follow the highest rated dotafire one with little deviation. It may seem daunting, but just buying those items in order is usually the best way to go. If your team is kind enough, let them know youre still learning and ask what items you should be buying under the circumstances. Once you refine your other mechanics you can start making on-the-fly decisions and buying different items for different situations.
But basically, if you're a support, you want to make sure your team has observer wards up for most of the game, and a courier at the start (if youre lucky sometimes a semi-support may help you out with this!). Other than that, work towards building your boots, and a mek if your team doesn't already have one. Getting a pipe is also great if they deal a lot of magic damage.
For other roles, just follow dotafire guides or reccomended items (although some of valves suggestions are stupid, see double bracers on supports, windrunner and vengeful spirits reccomended etc).
Good luck!
As for builds, just follow the highest rated dotafire one with little deviation. It may seem daunting, but just buying those items in order is usually the best way to go. If your team is kind enough, let them know youre still learning and ask what items you should be buying under the circumstances. Once you refine your other mechanics you can start making on-the-fly decisions and buying different items for different situations.
But basically, if you're a support, you want to make sure your team has observer wards up for most of the game, and a courier at the start (if youre lucky sometimes a semi-support may help you out with this!). Other than that, work towards building your boots, and a mek if your team doesn't already have one. Getting a pipe is also great if they deal a lot of magic damage.
For other roles, just follow dotafire guides or reccomended items (although some of valves suggestions are stupid, see double bracers on supports, windrunner and vengeful spirits reccomended etc).
Good luck!
I would not recommend playing a hero like Chaos Knight, mainly because he is a very momentum-based hero. He's a carry hero, but his farming potential is pretty poor. To counteract this, he needs a good start (i.e. participate in fights) to become a threat in the later stages of the game. This makes him a much harder carry hero to play compared to an Anti-Mage or Morphling (heroes who have amazing farming potential).
Shift queue is something that should be written somewhere, nobody really told me back on the original DotA. It makes Puck the ultimate escaper with Phase Shift + Dagger, SK deadly as fuck and helps even for simple things like not wasting any second after a TP (and not cancelling by mistake) or sap/nightmare a foe right after ulting with Bane etc.
It's not that hard actually, for SK, just press the ult button, then the dagger button, then press and HOLD shift and finally left click where you wanna land (no need to hold shift after the left click). Works like magic.
As general advice, I like playing SK as full roamer/ganker since he's very item independent: with arcane/dagger/wand you can pretty much wreak havoc most of the match, so you can spend the rest of your gold warding the enemy jungle like a real motherfucker. And of course have the balls to initiate a teamfight, but make sure to warn your allies that you will jump or you might end dying alone.
A common mistake of new players is relying on strict builds. Don't do that. Of course there are a few items that you'll always see on some heroes like Travel on Tinker or Dagger and Mana Boots on Initiators, but all in all, it depends a lot on who you are facing and who your paired with. That said, the rec builds are pretty accurate (maybe one or a couple a bit misleading) and very noob-friendly if you never touched the hero. Basically, try to respect the role of the hero: if he's a damage whore (like Kunkka or Bounty Hunter), don't try to make him a dps hero, if he needs to survive in a teamfight to be effective (like Leshrac/Krobelus), have the luxury to focus on tankish items, if you work better as a dedicated support, aim for mek/pipe/force staff/wards, let the carry farm and so on.
As a common sense, late game luxury for each stat will be Heart/Butterfly/Sheepstick for Str/Agi/Int respectively, BUT there are exceptions (ie PA and Ursa don't fit with Butterfly due to PA's passive evasion not stacking/being more effective with straight damage items, Ursa's ult being based on her HP so Heart is better) and well, it's just common sense...
My best advice overall is to keep practicing, you'll learn a lot from each mistake you do.
Yeah avoiding strict builds is one of the things that I'm trying to carry over from my LoL experience. I definitely need to practice more, so that I can recognize what's coming at me. Kinda hard to figure out what to counter when I don't even recognize most of these champs yet haha.
Appreciate the advice guys! One of these days I wont feed.
Appreciate the advice guys! One of these days I wont feed.