Double Battle Metagame.

[Gymdude]

What about pairing Toxicroak with a Damp Pokemon to ensure survival in the case of an Explosion lead?

Not many of the Pokemon with Damp have the ability to really sweep in RD. They're more of support Pokemon, so if they did have a damp Pokemon with Toxi, it'd kind of be more of stall which does not work well in doubles.

 

[MegaKick]

Would a Pain Split being used with Shedinja in toe work to your advantage?

I'm Thinking a Trick Room team with a low HP Pokemon, like Dusknoir:

Dusknoir: @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
(+Def, - Spe)

Trick Room
Pain Split
Earthquake
Rock Slide

Shedinja: Focus Sash
252 Attack, 252 Special Attack
(+Atk, - Spe)

Protect
X-Scissor / U Turn (*This allows Shedinja to stay in long enough for Pain Split to work, but to damage and escape before its in danger)
Sucker Punch
Shadow Claw / Hidden Power Fire (*Pursuit Scizor)

By not adding HP to Dusknoir, Pain Split hurts your foes as much as possible, especially factoring in Shedinja's 1 HP, lowering the average of all 4 Pokemon's (your team and your foe's) HP even more.

Trick Room makes them both fast, allowing Shedinja to kill off your weakened opponents after Pain Split, also Shedinja works great being Immune to common attacks like Fake-out, Earthquake, Discharge, Surf, etc. Hidden Power Fire handles Scizor who may try and use Pursuit, although Dusknoir would probably need to use Earthquake just to make sure it dies. Pain Split will inevitably heal up Dusknoir alot for having such low HP compared to many other Pokemon, plus like its other 2 attacks, it hits both targets.

Shedinja supports Dusknoir by handling other Ghost types that are weak to Sucker Punch or Shadow Claw, and X-Scissor can deal with Dark types that go after Dusknoir or Shedinja. Focus Sash prevents Sucker Punch from killing Shedinja right away.

*Alternatively you can simply have Shedinja Protect turn 1, and U-turn turn 2 after DUsknoir has used Pain Split, allowing Shedinja to do damage, and switch out after Pain Split has already significantly weakened both of the foes, as you send in another Trick Room abuser to better finish off the foes. Make Shedinja faster than Dusknoir, (or slower in Trick Room), by lower Dusknoir's Speed IVs more than Shedinja.

Now to make this a super cool gimmick, give shedinja mimic. mimic pain split and have shedinja pain split to bring the foe down low. Works better with endeavor

 

[Casanova]

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Modest Nature(+Sp.A,-Att)
252 Spe / 252 Sp.A / 4 HP
-Heat Wave
-Dragon Pulse
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power[Ice] / Hidden Power[Grass]

Infernape @ Life Orb
Naive Nature(+Spe,-Sp.D)
252 Spe / 180 Sp.A / 76 Att
-Flamethrower
-Close Combat
-Stealth Rock / Stone Edge
-Hidden Power[Grass] / Hidden Power[Ice]

Use Infernape's fire move on Heatran,and boost Heat Wave's power.Sweep with Heatran.Moves are for coverage.

Another combo:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Calm Nature(+Sp.D,-Att)
252 HP / 252 Sp.D / 4 Sp.A
-Follow Me
-Air Slash
-Thunder Wave
-Wish

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Timid Nature(+Spe,-Att)
252 Spe / 252 Sp.A / 4 HP
-Nasty Plot
-Agility
-Thunderbolt
-Surf / Grass Knot / Hidden Power[Ice]

Togekiss uses Follow Me,while Pikachu sets up.With (436x6) Sp.A,Pikachu can do a very good sweep.Thunderbolt for the usual STAB,Surf / Grass Knot / HP[Ice] for coverage.*NOTE:Any set-up sweeper can do this;Pikachu was just an example I used because he could boost both Speed and Special Attack.(Others can be Agilitygon-z,Nastyplotagilitygon-z,Bellydrumlax,BellydrumLinoone,BellydrumPoliwrath,etc.)

Ubers:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Timid Nature(+Spe,-Att)
Hydration Ability
252 Spe / 252 Sp.A / 4 HP
-Skill Swap
-Thunder
-Tail Glow
-Heart Swap

Kyogre @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Calm Nature(+Sp.D,-Att)
Drizzle Ability
252 Spe / 252 Sp.A / 4 HP
-Rest
-Calm Mind
-Ice Beam / Surf / Water Spout / Hydro Pump
-Thunder

Skill Swap Hydration onto Kyogre,and Kyogre's Rest are 1-turn Rests.Calm Mind helps boosts its base 140 and 150 Sp.D and Sp.A into greater heights.Thunder is for hitting opposing Kyogres,Palkias,etc.Ice Beam helps you to hit Garchomps,Salamences(to an extent),Rayquazas,Lugias,Skymins,Latios,etc.Surf,Water Spout or even Hydro Pump can be placed over Ice Beam if you desperately want a STAB move.As for Manaphy,Thunder receives 100% Accuracy in rain.Surf is a good STAB move and Kyogre resists it.Tail Glow for immediate Sp.A boost.Skill Swap is well,obvious.

 

[Casanova]

Give Manaphy Heart Swap over Thunder (does Man. even learn Thunder?). Give Manaphy Grass Knot over Skill Swap.

Give Kyogre Shell Bell + Surf, Thunder, Ice Beam, Hydro Pump

This way Kyogre will be healing alot from Shell bell as Surf is hitting multiple targets, and Manaphy will be boosting Kyogre's stats with Tail Glow and Heart Swap.

The point is that Kyogre is supposed to get Hydration from Manaphy.Thus,Skill Swap cannot be replaced.

[SURF] changed to [Heart Swap]
[CALM MIND] changed to Water Spout[since its resting most of the time].

 

[Riverside]

Typhlosion (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Solarbeam
- Focus Blast

Latias (F) @ Heat Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse / Recover
- Psychic / Recover

 

[Casanova]

Psych Up

Regigigas and Cradily

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Psych Up
-Rock Slide
-Return
-Earth Quake

Cradily @ Lansat Berry
Impish or Careful
252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
-Stockpile
-Swords Dance
-Substitute
-Seed Bomb

First 5 turns -> Stockpile + Swords Dance while Gigas Psych Ups
6th - 8th turns ->Sub till Lansat activates
8th turn -> Gigas Psych Ups
9th turn onwards -> Sweep

Bellynoone

Linoone @ Salac Berry
Jolly or Adamant
Gluttony
24 HP IVs
252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 Def
-Belly Drum
-Seed Bomb
-Extremespeed
-Shadow Claw

Clefable @ Toxic Orb
Impish or Careful
44 Att / 212 Def / 252 SpDef
-Cosmic Power
-Belly Drum
-Facade
-Follow Me

Clefable's follow me while Linoone drums;Clefable cosmic powers 6 times,and Drums.Proceed to sweep.

Double Drum
Drum with Full HP

Poliwrath @ Salac Berry
252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 Def
Water Absorb
Jolly or Adamant
-Belly Drum
-Hypnosis
-Reversal
-Waterfall

Politoed @ Wide Lens
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Damp
Modest or Timid
-Hypnosis
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power[Grass]

Turn 1->Double Hypnosis
Turn 2->Wrath Drums,Toed Surfs
Turn 3->Wrath sweeps,Toed surfs

Now you have a Belly Drum with full HP.Turn 4->Proceed to sweep necessarily.

 

[theamericandream38]

Psych Up

Regigigas and Cradily

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Psych Up
-Rock Slide
-Return
-Earth Quake

Cradily @ Lansat Berry
Impish or Careful
252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
-Stockpile
-Swords Dance
-Substitute
-Seed Bomb

First 5 turns -> Stockpile + Swords Dance while Gigas Psych Ups
6th - 8th turns ->Sub till Lansat activates
8th turn -> Gigas Psych Ups
9th turn onwards -> Sweep

Hahahahahahaha you actually expect this to work? I'm sorry, but you're not going to have 9 turns to set up, especially in doubles. Incredibly poor strategy, trash it.

Bellynoone

Linoone @ Salac Berry
Jolly or Adamant
Gluttony
24 HP IVs
252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 Def
-Belly Drum
-Seed Bomb
-Extremespeed
-Shadow Claw

Clefable @ Toxic Orb
Impish or Careful
44 Att / 212 Def / 252 SpDef
-Cosmic Power
-Belly Drum
-Facade
-Follow Me

Clefable's follow me while Linoone drums;Clefable cosmic powers 6 times,and Drums.Proceed to sweep.

Again, 6 turn set up? Linoone gets set up right away but has very weak defenses anyway, allowing it to be killed quickly. Moves that hit both pokemon destroy your strategy, as do faster pokemon than Linoone. Not very likely to work.

Double Drum
Drum with Full HP

Poliwrath @ Salac Berry
252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 Def
Water Absorb
Jolly or Adamant
-Belly Drum
-Hypnosis
-Reversal
-Waterfall

Politoed @ Wide Lens
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Damp
Modest or Timid
-Hypnosis
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power[Grass]

Turn 1->Double Hypnosis
Turn 2->Wrath Drums,Toed Surfs
Turn 3->Wrath sweeps,Toed surfs

Now you have a Belly Drum with full HP.Turn 4->Proceed to sweep necessarily.

Finally, a strategy that isn't completely worthless! You're relying on two Hypnosis hits here, as well as hoping that neither of the opponent's leads have Lum/Chesto. You are also hoping that your two can survive whatever a faster pokemon does to them turn 1, which is very unlikely in some cases. At least you have Damp to help beat Explosion, but most players are going to be smart enough to wait to use Explosion until after one or both of these two is dead (if they see Water Absorb, they will only wait to kill Politoed). Certainly better than the first two strategies, but not outstanding either.

 

[Tagrineth]

Sleep Clause also ruins the double drums strategy.

 

[Chinese Dood]

@Casanova: I agree with theamericandream38. The first 2 combos are pretty ridiculous. You cannot possibly count on surviving 5 or 6 turns while you set up. Your opponent isn't going to just sit there doing nothing for a few turns. The last one is somewhat interesting though. Belly Drum plus instant recovery on the same turn sounds interesting, regardless of whether it will work in reality or not. I was thinking something more like:

Poliwrath @ Sitrus Berry (or Leftovers)
Water Absorb / Adamant or Jolly
- EV: even HP, probably max attack and some speed
- Belly Drum / Protect / 2 attacks

Politoed @ Lum / not too important / whatever works
- EVs: defensive, some speed, but just a wee bit slower than wrath.
- Icy Wind (and/or Mudshot) / Surf / Fillers

If opponents are clearly faster, then Protect + Icy Wind (Jolly Poliwrath would let it outspeed nearly everything after Icy Wind), otherwise, let's say it's vs a TR team, then just Belly Drum, sitrus restores 25%, then surf restores Poliwrath back to 100%. Of course, Fake out would ruin it, and probably some other stuff. Leftovers on wrath would allow for longer survivability if it manages to survive the first couple turns after drumming, since Protect could always gain back that little bit of health.

 

[Casanova]

Wobbuffet and Darkrai

Wobuffet @ Leftovers
Careful,Calm,Bold or Impish
252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 HP
-Counter
-Mirror Coat
-Encore
-Safegaurd

Darkrai @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Wide Lens
Timid or Modest
4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SAtk
-Dark Void
-Nasty Plot
-Dark Pulse
-Hidden Power Fighting / Focus Blast

Wobbuffet traps while Darkrai Dark Voids.Nasty Plot till +6 SAttack.Dark Pulse and HP[Fighting] gives unresisted coverage in ubers.Leftovers allow optimal recovery,Life Orb allows more damage while Wide Lens ensure Dark Void gets higher accuracy.Focus Blast is preffered to be used over HP[Fighting] if you use Wide Lens.

 

[Vhind]

Casanova, you have more ridiculous ideas than hhjj, and at least his make sense now. lolz.

 

[Squishy]

Darkrai @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Wide Lens
Timid or Modest
4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SAtk
-Dark Void
-Nasty Plot
-Dark Pulse
-Hidden Power Fighting / Focus Blast

Wobbuffet traps while Darkrai Dark Voids.Nasty Plot till +6 SAttack.Dark Pulse and HP[Fighting] gives unresisted coverage in ubers.Leftovers allow optimal recovery,Life Orb allows more damage while Wide Lens ensure Dark Void gets higher accuracy.Focus Blast is preffered to be used over HP[Fighting] if you use Wide Lens.

If you are going to Nasty Plot to +6, you definatly want Timid.

 

[drcossack]

Wobbuffet and Darkrai

Wobuffet @ Leftovers
Careful,Calm,Bold or Impish
252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 HP
-Counter
-Mirror Coat
-Encore
-Safegaurd

Darkrai @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Wide Lens
Timid or Modest
4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SAtk
-Dark Void
-Nasty Plot
-Dark Pulse
-Hidden Power Fighting / Focus Blast

Wobbuffet traps while Darkrai Dark Voids.Nasty Plot till +6 SAttack.Dark Pulse and HP[Fighting] gives unresisted coverage in ubers.Leftovers allow optimal recovery,Life Orb allows more damage while Wide Lens ensure Dark Void gets higher accuracy.Focus Blast is preffered to be used over HP[Fighting] if you use Wide Lens.

This is terrible (in the execution, not the idea)

Wobb sucks in doubles, since it can just be ignored. Your opponent will probably use something that will OHKO Darkrai as one of their leads (ie Scarf Kyogre with Water Spout), then Wobb dies to the other (if Spout doesn't kill it)

More importantly, people will use both Sleep-curing Berries in doubles. If that's the case, what do you do after losing Darkrai? It seems that your whole strategy relies on incapacitating 1/3 of your opponent's team, but I don't see how you can handle something that stops it.

 

[Jio]

Hi everyone. I'd like to get someones opinion on this doubles combo I've come up with recently. I'll admit first that I have not tested this yet. So if I'm wrong somewhere please help me.

Mr.Mime @ LumBerry
Ability: Filter
Ev Spread: 252Speed/252Spdef/4Def
Nature: Timid
-SkillSwap
-TrickRoom
-Psychic
-Reflect/Lightscreen/Thunderbolt/Roleplay

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: SandStream
Evs Spread: 252Hp/ 40 Def/ 216 Sp.Def
Nature: Careful
-Curse
-RockSlide
-Crunch
-Protect

Strategy
First I protect with Tyranitar and proceed to set up Trick Room. Then I skill swap Filter over to Tyranitar and then I can use Curse from there to raisie my stats. For those who dont know Filter is an ability that reduces the damage you take from supereffective attacks. So with Curse and Filter ability Tyranitar will be able to stay alive for a long time. Mr.Mimes last move is hard to choose, but Role play will allow me to copy Filter back onto Mr.Mime.

Please give me your opinion on this. I already know that Taunt and Fakeout can mess me up, but like I said I haven't really tested this yet, so I would appreciate someones help with this. Thank you.

 

[False [old]]

It's unique, but it's difficult to say exactly how much time 'a long time' would be for Tyranitar. Filter multiplies super effective damage by .75, so 2x damage becomes 1.5x, and 4x becomes 3x. 3x from a fighting attack is still a lot, so Tyranitar would probably be wanting a Chople Berry.

Also, Mr. Mime isn't really a great choice for a Trick Room team. Yes, no one would see it coming, but he can't really do much once the Dimensions are twisted, since he's too fast even with a -Speed nature and 0 Speed IVs.

 

[ChronoSquare]

Here's a question. Does Follow Me protect the second combatant from being by double-attacking moves such as Explosion, Heat Wave, Surf, etc? Also, how often do people use multi-attack moves in Doubles (outside of Earthquake, Surf, and Explosion, that is.)

 

[Chinese Dood]

Double- and multi-target moves will bypass Follow Me. The three multi-target moves you listed are the most common multi-target moves that you'll see the most. There's also Discharge that is seen somewhat often with Zapdos + ground type combo. There aren't even that many multi-target moves. Other than the ones mentioned, there's basically only lava plume (only useful on flash fire partner... otherwise heat wave outclasses), selfdestruct (Snorlax), and Teeter Dance (not seen often, risky even if partner has own tempo).

 

[theamericandream38]

Double- and multi-target moves will bypass Follow Me. The three multi-target moves you listed are the most common multi-target moves that you'll see the most. There's also Discharge that is seen somewhat often with Zapdos + ground type combo. There aren't even that many multi-target moves. Other than the ones mentioned, there's basically only lava plume (only useful on flash fire partner... otherwise heat wave outclasses), selfdestruct (Snorlax), and Teeter Dance (not seen often, risky even if partner has own tempo).

Icy Wind deserves a mention, as it lowers speed and hits both opponents. Other than that, there is Rock Slide, Eruption, and a few others, but not much.

 

[Chinese Dood]

I thought he was only asking about multi-target moves, not double-target ones, but yah, I love Icy Wind in Doubles.

EDIT:
List of all moves that are double-target:
Acid, Air Cutter, Blizzard, Bubble, Captivate, Dark Void, Eruption, Growl, Heal Block, Heat Wave, Hyper Voice, Icy Wind, Leer, Muddy Water, Powder Snow, Razor Leaf, Razor Wind, Rock Slide, String Shot, Sweet Scent, Swift, Tail Whip, Twister, Water Spout

List of all moves that are multi-target:
Discharge, Earthquake, Explosion, Lava Plume, Magnitude, Selfdestruct, Surf, Teeter Dance

The ones seen most often for double target are probably Blizzard (for hail teams only), Dard Void (Smeargle), Eruption (k, not that often, but there's Typhlosion or rarely TR Camerupt), Heat Wave, Icy Wind (sometimes?), Rock Slide. If you see a Wailord (or Kyogre) of course you'd probably expect to see Water Spout.

 

[picklesword]

This might be slightly obvius except one thing I think should be used more in doubles

Vaporeon @ Lum Berry
Nature: Relaxed
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spatk
Attacks:
- Rain Dance
- Icy Wind
- Hydropump / surf or brine for lvl 50
- Helping Hand

Ludicolo @ Sitrus Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: modest
EV"s 252 speed / 252 spatk / 4 hp
Attacks:
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Fake Out
- Protect

Kind of simple, Vaporeon is hard to OHKO. The slower your wheather move, means it should go off in case they have a wheather user. Also helps against TR teams just in case. Ludicolo fake outs things that could OHKO vaporeon as it rain dances. Ludicolo now is really fast and has a powerful surf, so vaporeon makes it even more stronger and uses Helping hand. so it gets a
x 3.375 boosted surf. Thats pretty strong. In the case that they have a gengar or something that can taunt that is immune to fake out, you can use icy wind which will still make ludicolo faster than most things unless its scarf. Then you can hit stuff hard with Helping hand surf, which is the same power as if rain dance was out.

 

[Dalevl]

Nice, my only opinion is to try and be more cunning with leads, maybe instead of using those two as leads leave them as the last two and use a Rain Dance Brozong + Unused Surfer that knows Taunt or fake out?
This way if your opponent assumes you will run TR, they themselves won't set up, expecting you to, already giving you an adcantage or Focus on Stopping Brozong while the other pokemon Stops them from setting up, basically ensuring your set up. The Suprise of the Partner using Surf will also work to your advantage, especially with Vaporeon.

 

[Vhind]

Nice, my only opinion is to try and be more cunning with leads

I second that opinion! Nowadays, especially in the new doubles subforum, most people are posting ideas that veterans have known for a long time.
Much like the singles format has become, we must be more "cunning" with our ideas to keep others on their toes.

Nice word choice, Dalevl. :]

 

[viperGTS]

Kingdra @ Wet Rock
Swift Swim
252 Spa/242 HP/16 Spe and Modest
~ Rain Dance
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Dragon Pulse

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Dry Skin
252 Att/ 240 Speed/18 HP and Jolly
~ Substitue
~ Focus Punch
~ Sucker Punch
~ Stone Edge

Toxicroak WILL NOT DIE in double battles. Dry Skin (Rain Dance + Surf) + Black Sludge = 3 / 8 recovery a turn. So you can Sub up, and get healed immediately. I've tested it and Surf does NOT mess up Focus Punch. Kingdra need almost need speed EVs to outspeed everything, and if it kills one of the opponents, then Toxicroak will be able to get off his Focus Punch with out worrying about being ganged up on.

i know this post is old, but there is 1 thing i would like to comment on this. it's a great combo, but kingdra should never be setting up the rain; that's what ludicolo is for. kingdra is for sweeping, and ludicolo is much bulkier to set up rain as well. sorry if this has already been brought up.

 

[False [old]]

While being cunning is a great idea, there's a limit to that sort of thing. Yes, they'll probably never guess that Gengar is going to use Trick Room, but after he does it, he's kind of a lame duck.

My suggestion is to open with two pokemon that could be mistaken for a 'goodstuffs' team, and then switch in the pokemon that will perform the setup later on. Infernape has been great for me while doing this.

 

[VashTheStampede]

@hhjj: So your using 3 Pokemon just to -hopefully- kill 2 Pokemon and -hopefully- incapacitate the other 2? Way too many risks and assumptions, imo.

Firstly, you assume that Dark Void hits both opponents AND that neither of them have Lum/Chesto berries. Not to mention, Smeargle has a Scarf, locking it in...
Secondly, you assume that, even if both sleeps work, that the opponents will bring out their only 2 fresh Pokemon against Licky, who obviously carries Explosion. The list goes on, but I'll stop there.

Berries, Taunt, Trick, and Fighting moves ruin your strategy. The standard taunting Gengar and Azelf leads could whoop this team, not to mention Priority users and Fake Out. :(