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Doubles CAP Project thread! Stage 8: Stat Limits

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This is Torterra (75 base SpA)
252+ SpA Life Orb Torterra Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Rotom-W: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Torterra Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 317-374 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

if 103 base SpA
252+ SpA Life Orb Torterra Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Rotom-W: 229-273 (75.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Torterra Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 385-458 (100.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Torterra Earth Power vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Shuca Berry Heatran: 343-406 (101.7 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just ignore the leftovers, and imagine sitrus is there.
So basically, the toughest thing to deal with is not the special attack stat. putting it at a reasonable "Special Attacker worthy" number should solve many threats.
Increasing the special attack to beat the other tough threats: Aegislash and Scizor, would require racking up the special attack to insane levels though (over chandelure levels), which I am not yet sure is worthwhile. Scizor is a very different story though if this thing gets an ice/fire move, since that will allow HP ice+fire move/HP fire+ice move.

As for speed I want this thing to beat scarf Keldeo. It doesn't matter how rare that is because it will be important to kill. I get the feeling that I am not allowed to propose any base stat numbers here (?) but from calculations, at modest nature it will be extremely slightly above Kabutops. Which seems reasonable.

As for the bulk, I am torn between the choices of semi bulky nuker or super bulky threat killer. From using stoutland in singles (not sure if that is a fair comparison), I get the feeling that semi bulk nuker is much better, as threats are not the only thing you are killing. Putting not too much in HP is also good for gaining more from giga drain, though we could make it meet up to the 404 hp limit if anyone wants to build 252 hp sub build (?)

Oh and more physical defence than special. I like to hit my teammates in doubles so it would be good if this can take a few eqs from excadrill.

Therefore I propose Fantastic PT, Excellent ST, Poor PS, Excellent SS

Scarf Keldeo is entirely irrelevant, as is kabutops, as are 404 HP subs, as is stoutland, as is singles experience, as is tanking a partner drill's EQ, as is 252 HP Lando-T... do you even play doubles at all?

As for my personal numbers, I'm looking heavily at the ponies, because they have extremely strong attacks that we want to switch into, and because Terrakion's sandstorm boost means we'll need some power to KO it. Not even 135 SpA Modest with Life Orb guarantees an OHKO on Terrakion with Earth Power, so I think maybe we should force ourselves to use Leaf Storm. Defensively, we might want to be able to switch into Close Combats and Hydro Pumps from the ponies—but it would take a good amount of bulk. 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (95/90 custom) : 277-328 (83.6 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Notch that down a bit on the Special side, since HPump is slightly weaker. We'd need bulk higher than Terrakion's own to tank its hits, with a Speed also higher than Terrakion's. And it's pretty hard to overrate Speed. We might have to make sacrifices somewhere.

Consider this: Venusaur statistically only has "Good" special sweepiness (135), while Ludicolo is even just "above average" (115). However, the two of them also have additional important boosts that our much more straightforward CAP will not; Ludicolo gets Fake Out and Rain boost to his Hydro Pumps; Venusaur has Sleep Powder. So perhaps the best comparison for us would be Excadrill, who is also very straightforward and has a sweepiness of 190 (Excellent). It's worth noting that we have much better STAB coverage than Excadrill though, and indeed, probably won't even need HP Ice—252+ SpA Life Orb (110 SpA custom) Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 325-383 (101.8 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO. We could very feasibly run just our STAB coverage and a utility move as well.

Another thing to note is how the scenario could work out in battle. Things that are short of a KO for the CAP could very well be "chipped in" by Tyranitar who will basically just be spamming Rock Slide next to the CAP, discouraging any of its counters from actually switching in. This Rock Slide spam is a powerful dynamic which can be exploited to pseudotrap the opponent by making switching difficult—something that we can already see as the main strength in Sun teams between Zard's Heat Waves and Venusaur's Sleep Powder.

That was a bunch of completely disparate thoughts to perhaps jog discussion or at least give everyone something to think about. Between OHKOing Terrakion or Aegislash with Earth Power, switching into Terrakion, switching into Keldeo, we obviously want to be able to do all of these but are going to have to choose because being extremely fast is pretty fucking huge in itself. Right now I'm looking at PT and ST limits that will live the musketeer attacks and a SS limit that will allow a wide variety of Speeds and Special Attacks, but a pretty restrictive BSR to make sure that no one Pokemon can do it all.
 
The consensus overall has pretty clearly been a special attacker, and I can't see any particularly useful reasons to be a specially based mixed attacker, as there is basically nothing relevant for the CAP to hit on the physical side.
The reason I suggested a specially based mixed sweeper is that Earth Power can't OHKO terrekion in the sand, and leaf storm forces us to switch out. If it had passable base 90-110 Atk then it could kill it.
This is with base 110 attack (Torterra used because it has identical STABs)
60 Atk Torterra Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 324-384 (100 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The base 110 atk is on the high side, but it isn't unreasonable for a specially based mixed attacker if our SpA was 135 or so.
Edit: it has a (small) chance to OHKO Tyranitar if it holds a life Orb too, when EP would just be laughable, This is still base 110 atk and 60 EVs. 60 Atk Life Orb Torterra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 354-421 (87.6 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Also, with the life orb, then you need less attack investment / base attack to OHKO terrekion. It's only 90 base attack with no EVs and a life orb for it.
0 Atk Life Orb Torterra Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 335-398 (103.3 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Low base speed sand sweeper but enough to outspeed adamant scarf landoge was the General consensus and we want it to be a sand supporter and not an outright replacement and/or clutch to make sand not utter shit. Giving it durant level base speed or worse yet thund-I base speed is utter bullshit. Why the fuck does a sand rusher need 109/111 base speed is beyond me.

High special attack so it can Ohko terrakion in sand with earth power (or you could stop being pussies and just give it seed flare). You all already stated that 135 wasn't enoufh so lol.

Needs solid bulk above 95/90/90 so it can actually switch into shit since due to you all losing sight of what our CAP was supposed to initially check and bring in arbitrary stuff like muskedeers and other shit which wasn't our original goal. might as well give it the arceus gold standard at this rate.

Doesn't need attack so just give it attack similar to mega beedrill's special attack and we're gold. Zzzz

Edit: I like how pwnemon stated that the cap should be a supporter to sand and not something that should normally be used outside of sand but is proposing the cap to be fast + strong + not shitty defense/typing. But from the way it's headed it is simply headed in a way as a catch all check to everything as opposed to a sand exclusive thing.
 
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well, this cap has gotten dismal activity for a while, srk and i are in agreement that we should just shut it down. thanks to everyone who did participate:

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