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Doubles Overview, Benchmarks, and Q&A Thread—Read before asking!
- Thread starter kamikaze
- Start date
I thought of this too, but doubles is so underrated and only ou has CAP so far.so I'm not sure
Pwnemon probably has a better answer after he watches the movie
I'm figuring either he's gonna be super excited or super snarky or both.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
Ok I'm back:
What we can't do is work within the existing CAP framework, at least not at this moment, to create a Doubles CAP. This point is settled. We had a PR thread about it recently, and the only reason DougJustDoug would even entertain the idea of a non-OU cap is to attract more regulars to OU CAP, and only then if we could maintain acceptable levels of activity compared to an OU CAP. Given the relatively small amount of Doubles players compared to OU players and the fact that many of the upper tier doubles players are not also interested in ou, i can't see this happening. I'm just tagging doug to see if i'm horribly misinterpreting what was decided in that pr thread. Even if we were able to work within CAP, I'm not sure I would want to. Given how the average flyby CAP voter thinks about OU, I'm sure we'd end up making a CAP that explores the effects of Skill Swap and Discharge on the metagame, and has the ability Truant.
What we can do: make our own CAP, right here in the doubles subforum, if we were so to choose. If we had people committed to seeing the project through (or were able to recruit enough people to keep up a steady blood flow), we could absolutely do it. The only two concerns I have are first: getting zarel to implement our Pokemon and set up a playtest ladder for it, and secondly: getting enough artists involved that we are reasonably assured of having at least one piece of art and one sprite for it. Other than that, I /believe/ I have enough experience with the CAP project to facilitate a smooth running if others are up for contributing. The question is do we have people willing to participate? A Doubles CAP is something that's never crossed my mind before today but I'm not going to lie, it sounds really fucking fun if others are up for it.
I'm sure if we offered the proper incentives, we could absolutely get this going, especially if we could get the "bloodflow" as you put it.
One of the main issues I've personally been having with my own Teambuilding projects is the lack of ideas beyond the First CCAT round (we had like eleven billion nominations, and then we had trouble getting 2 by the end.)
I think mainly the reason for this is that people are only really giving doubles a passing glance. Something fun to play with for a bit before going back to OU. We lack the "hook" so to speak that OU has to really draw a crowd, which is unfortunate as many of us that are invested in the metagame really try to pump it up as much as possible. I know I personally post links to the doubles overview thread in PS Chat once or twice a day at minimum, but we are having personnel issues I think mainly because people don't see a reason to hang around and get serious with it.
OU (and Singles in general) has multiple tournaments, badge opportunities, large events, etc.
We have (recently) SPL, doubles Circuit, a few Teambuilding/Thoerymon threads, and a very quiet (by most standards) PS room.
Edit: What if we got some of the CAP projects leads and some of the artists together (Bummer likes us I think) and pooled ideas about how to get something like this going?
One of the main issues I've personally been having with my own Teambuilding projects is the lack of ideas beyond the First CCAT round (we had like eleven billion nominations, and then we had trouble getting 2 by the end.)
I think mainly the reason for this is that people are only really giving doubles a passing glance. Something fun to play with for a bit before going back to OU. We lack the "hook" so to speak that OU has to really draw a crowd, which is unfortunate as many of us that are invested in the metagame really try to pump it up as much as possible. I know I personally post links to the doubles overview thread in PS Chat once or twice a day at minimum, but we are having personnel issues I think mainly because people don't see a reason to hang around and get serious with it.
OU (and Singles in general) has multiple tournaments, badge opportunities, large events, etc.
We have (recently) SPL, doubles Circuit, a few Teambuilding/Thoerymon threads, and a very quiet (by most standards) PS room.
Edit: What if we got some of the CAP projects leads and some of the artists together (Bummer likes us I think) and pooled ideas about how to get something like this going?
I just want to make sure I am interpreting this correctly: In Smogon Doubles, the pokemon are auto-leveled to 100. Does that mean a lvl 78 pokemon will auto up to 100? Or do the pokemon have to actually be lvl 100 in the first place? Sorry if it sounds like dumb question, just want to make sure since I got a "smogon doubles" tournament i am gonna try and enter next week.
Yea I was asking about in game, not showdown. Sorry, they must just mean they are using Smogon Rules for the event so the leveling wouldn't matter. Apologies for the confusion, but thanks for the reply. Hopefully in future my questions/input won't be so uninformed.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
if you're going to an irl tournament using smogon doubles rules—well first, that's the first i've ever heard of this and im pumped to hear that we're now popular enough to be the format of an irl tournament (though i'd check to make sure you didn't mishear and it's just a smogon rules (i.e. ou) tournament).
Secondly, there is no auto-level to 100 function in X and Y so if they are indeed using level 100 pokemon you will need to either get them there manually via le wow or trade them up from non-xy games where it was easy to Action Replay yourself 999 rare candies. Levelling WILL be a concern (again, only if the pokemon need to be level 100, which i'd check again to make sure because that's a pain in the bum hole)
Of all the times to be worried about the activity of doubles, right now is not one that i'd choose. Lately ive been seeing high caliber tournament players playing Doubles with the same respect they'd play any tier in Grand Slam with, our PS userbase is becoming active on irc, and the forum is as active as ever. I've talked to some people on irc and would not mind taking the reins of a doubles CAP project if we think it's a good idea, but i'd run it by pocket first of course.
laga, nollan, audio, mizu, me, joim, darkmalice, arctic, level-51, the variety of people who got tc or closer to tc from our suspect tests, metal sonic got contrib in no small part from our analyses, etc. yes we don't give out the cc badge like candy but if you want to write doubles smog articles, vote in doubles suspect tests, do doubles analyses, rate doubles teams, tutor doubles well (dependent on getting non shit tutees x_x) or post well in the doubles subforum, you can get a badge.
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Yea I was expecting regular VGC rules but they did in fact decide to go with Smogon Rules. I am newer to true competitive battling and figured this would be a good place to ask and thanks for the clarifications. The people did respond back that it is your rules and like you said, the auto lvl 50 feature will be used. So thanks again!
Going off of the whole "can we do a Doubles CAP" discussion, could we just start a thread asking about interest for doing a doubles CAP? If there is enough interest, we can actually try to start it up.
All of my badges save TC came from other places, but you can add lucariojr to that list (he was an OM CC nom for Doubles before we got our own forum). I personally have a couple users I've been keeping a close eye on recently, but considering what happened the last time I made a major CC nomination I highly doubt anything is happening soon.
note for those not in the know: I am very bad at doing things in a timely fashion
In South Australia, most of the irl tournaments are Doubles format without VGC rules i.e. choose your 6 best Pokemon, and it's been like that since 4th Gen. The banlists have varied though. Before Smogon Doubles, the best banlists have been either the same as VGC or the Smogon OU banlist - every time someone tries making up their own banlist based on what they think is banworthy or not, it is worse than the VGC or OU banlist because the tournament holder has a bad understanding of what is uber or not. For example, Landorus-I before BW2 was released, a Legendary Clause where you could not have >1 legendary on your team, and a Moody Clause in which you could not have >1 Pokemon on your team with Moody because somehow he thought that one Moody Pokemon was fine but not two. With the release of Smogon Doubles, in 6th gen, many of the Doubles tournaments are using Smogon rules which helps.
Keep in mind that most of the Doubles tournaments in South Australia are relatively small and casual. The only big ones are:
-official Nintendo Pokemon tournaments. We get one a year most, and they are typically VGC or close to VGC rules.
-AVCon. Which use their own Doubles ruleset (they had the Landorus-I ban, but they are not as bad as some of the other rules).
In saying all this, all the tournaments have Pokemon autoleveled to 50. No one can be bothered leveling up to lvl 100 when there is no need to.
Is it worth investing into Shiftry's bulk if he's running Focus Sash? -1 BB from Talonflame 2hko's with full HP investment, so I was just wondering.
He won't be run under sunlight, but he'll have Chlorophyll (in case of Mega Char Y). Would it even be worth investing into speed if I'm not taking advantage of weather?
He won't be run under sunlight, but he'll have Chlorophyll (in case of Mega Char Y). Would it even be worth investing into speed if I'm not taking advantage of weather?
Stratos
Banned deucer.
This is a bit harsh, but I can't think of a single reason to run shiftry in general. What exactly were you thinking to do with it? Maybe i can help you find a less frail replacement.
Haha, my friends and I do this thing where we draw a random number, and whatever it is in the dex, we train one and use it in battle. I got Shiftry.
I wanted to work it into doubles AMAP, even if it's outclassed.
Anyway, I was thinking special attacker w/ Leaf Storm, Dark Pulse, HP Rock (maybe mixed w/ Rock Slide?), and either Protect or something else. Cholorophyll but without sunlight (not crazy about weather). Since he's frail but isn't being run under sun, I wasn't sure how to split the EV's that aren't going into Sp Atk.
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You're probably better off running max SpA and Speed with Focus Sash. I'd also recommend a Modest nature - you won't be OHKOing Char-Y without Life Orb but you might as well pump up Leaf Storm.
Modest is probably your best choice, as Arcticblast said. Shiftry isn't exactly in a speed tier where a boost is necessary anyway; 80 spe can only go so far and even with 252+ you won't be outspeeding much. Might as well bank on power and the possibility that you face a Mega Char Y (or, you could bring one yourself; dk how your battling thing works lol)
Side note; even if you do run it with a Focus Sash, bulk investment won't be very useful as you'll still be frail and you'll be pulling away valuable investment towards other stats.
Good luck with your battle!
Side note; even if you do run it with a Focus Sash, bulk investment won't be very useful as you'll still be frail and you'll be pulling away valuable investment towards other stats.
Good luck with your battle!
Thank you, guys. I put the rest in speed. The battles were a wash though - Leaf Storm missed 3 out of 5 times >.< I'm still determined to put this thing to use though!
How does sucker punch work against attacks that hit both pokemon? Say I use Surf with a faster pokemon and rock slide with a slower pokemon. Who will get hit by SP?
Also does Pressure stack? If both my pokes have Pressure, how much PP is used for opponents moves?
Also does Pressure stack? If both my pokes have Pressure, how much PP is used for opponents moves?
i think it does, or at least i remember this scenario from the battle maison. if two pokemon have pressure and you use a spread move, the move will lose 3 pp.
Confirming lucario jr's statement
I fought a pressure team one time in a vgc regional. You do not lose *4 pp, but rather simply 3 pp. It is because pressure is +1 to pp usage, not *2. So +2 with pressure stacking, not *4.
So for moves with 8 pp, you get to use 3 times, not just 2 :]
I fought a pressure team one time in a vgc regional. You do not lose *4 pp, but rather simply 3 pp. It is because pressure is +1 to pp usage, not *2. So +2 with pressure stacking, not *4.
So for moves with 8 pp, you get to use 3 times, not just 2 :]
It's viable if paired with Zard Y:
252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Modest
Chlorophyll
Focus Sash
-Fake Out
-Tailwind
-Leaf Storm
-Dark Pulse
It's got a number of perks over Venusaur. Venusuar is more offensively orientated and can spam Sleep Powder, Shiftry functions more as a team support that can also deal damage, and we all know Grass-types pair well with Zard Y. Fake Out and Tailwind are good support and pair brilliantly with Zard Y's hard hitting Heat Wave. Shiftry may not need Tailwind, but Zard Y especially and hopefully the rest of the team will love it. Tailwind enables you to surprise your opponent who think they can Sucker Punch a Shiftry whose down to 1 HP thanks to Sash. STAB Dark Pulse for a STAB without the drawbacks of Leaf Storm. It can also hit Cress hard with her enormous special bulk. Leaf Storm for power to compensate for the lack of LO, and it's good for a last ditch option, as with its bad bulk and multitude of weaknesses, you're not hanging around long. Giga Drain's recovery isn't going to be helpful.
You can also run Low Kick if you really need an answer to Tyranitar and Heatran, two Pokemon who trouble sun teams.
bearcanine I recommend against using Shiftry without sunlight. It's a frail Pokemon with many weaknesses; it needs speed to pull its weight. 90 base SpA will not compensate for this.
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