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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
What is Doubles Ubers?
Doubles Ubers, sometimes abbreviated as DUbers, is exactly what it sounds like. It's a doubles metagame in which all Pokemon, even Mega Rayquaza, are allowed, while keeping the same clauses from Doubles OU.
Where can I play it?
You can find a game on the Showdown ladder, by selecting Doubles Ubers under SM Doubles formats. Alternatively, you can ask for a game in the Smogon Doubles room on Showdown, where you can battle more experienced players.
Some topics for discussion:
I'm going to need sample teams! Show me how high you laddered with a team or give me replays of it doing well vs good players/teams and I'll be happy to add your squad!
Discuss checks and counters to the tiers best Pokemon, such as Xerneas and Mega Rayquaza
The thread is open to discussion and you are welcome to post about why something should have a different rank. If you have good reasoning, especially if it's supported by replays, then it'll be more likely to change. Please don't bandwagon posts. All rankings are alphabetical.
Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
Pokemon which have broad applications on a variety of teams but are simply less effective than the Pokemon in the higher tiers. This also includes Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support but are still stronger than Pokemon in the tiers below.
Bronzong 3 -> 2: Great setter with accurate hypno, typing that can pretty much guarantee a set between kang, levitate, and pogre.
Solgaleo UR -> 3: Performs a similar role to aegi with wide guard, but trades a better tr matchup for speed, natural bulk, and psychic terrain synergy.
Pheromosa 3 -> UR: What's this doing here? It's already underwhelming in dou, and it doesn't have any redeeming support options outside of speed swap gimmicks.
Your Groudon matchup is way too bad and reliant on your own Groudon. You also don't have Intimidate anywhere!!!
I think you need Salamence over Kangaskhan and a more reliable way of beating Yveltal that doesn't involve sacrificing the Pokémon that support Xerneas, as that leaves you vulnerable to the combination of Yveltal+Roar.
[12:05] Checkmater: wtf is arceus steel supposed to do [12:05] Checkmater: get murked by primals 24/7? [12:05] qsns is hot: nothing [12:05] qsns is hot: its bad [12:05] qsns is hot: vranks are bad [12:05] Checkmater: why is it tier 2 [12:05] Checkmater: ? [12:05] qsns is hot: its really bad
[12:05] Checkmater: wtf is arceus steel supposed to do [12:05] Checkmater: get murked by primals 24/7? [12:05] qsns is hot: nothing [12:05] qsns is hot: its bad [12:05] qsns is hot: vranks are bad [12:05] Checkmater: why is it tier 2 [12:05] Checkmater: ? [12:05] qsns is hot: its really bad
I dont play this tier but if i had to guess its main function is to be a psychic resist and check for mence, magearna, ray.
I can see why you may want it to drop since its roles kinda overlap a lot with jirachis but it packs more bulk, more offensive presence, and not having a ghost and dark weakness. you can judge if it can find a place on teams with those perks over jirachi or if its not enough to justify it
the thing is, magearna does that already (with a dark resist to boot) and ends up being much more threatening in the course of the game, while also packing trick room as well. i'd really like to see arc-steel dropped, i haven't seen it used and it seems extremely meh.
Just to clear something up, these rankings are very much so a preliminary set of rankings, which you are meant to help us build and adjust. n10sit and I threw them together in one night and it's pretty likely we missed a Pokemon entirely or misrepresented a threat. If you feel like something is poorly ranked, just let us know instead of saying "VR is bad" or something along those lines, which kind of defeats the purpose of a communally agreed upon ranking of the Pokemon. Thanks.
Heyo what the heck happened to tier 1.5? That's kinda important.
Deoxys-A is pretty much a worse Mega Mewtwo Y. MM2Y has better bulk and is way more reliable cause it doesn't have to deal with pesky Psycho Boost drops. Hell you could even use regular Mewtwo over Deoxys. I'd bump MM2Y to tier 2 and drop Deoxys to UR.
Dialga should be tier 2. Checking Rayquaza and Kyogre at the same time is pretty neat. My favorite set is Dragonium Z with Draco Meteor / Trick Room / Protect / Filler. It's crazy good cause now it actually hits hard but can invest in bulk.
Bump Bronzong up to tier 1.5. With the addition of accurate Hypnosis, it's the best TR setter in the tier. Also Skill Swap plus a Primal is criminally good.
Controversial nom, but I feel Xerneas is a little overrated. It suffers from its own popularity so every (good) team has some hard stop to it, and the introduction of Magearna doesn't help it either. Drop to 1.5?
Zapdos and Lugia to tier 3. They're both niche Tailwind setters but are good enough to be ranked. Also Lugia with a Psychic or Misty Seed is fucking unkillable.
Bump Mega Gengar to tier 2 at least. Trapping is super useful in a metagame dominated by Primals, and it's also a great check to stuff like Xerneas, Kangaskhan, etc.
Crobat is bad. Pheromosa is bad. Mega Metagross is bad. UR pls.
And here's the team I've been using for the past while:
Started with Tapu Lele + MM2Y. Added Kyogre cause a Primal is mandatory in this format and fuck Groudon. Rayquaza was a natural next pick, allowing Kyogre to hit targets through harsh sun and also just hitting like a truck. Added Scarf Lunala cause I wanted another strong Psychic attacker and it catches Gengar off guard, who otherwise gives the team significant problems. Finally I wanted a reliable means of speed control so I added Zapdos. It helps versus Yveltal and can shut down TR or set up sweepers such as Xerneas. The team gets bodied by Dialga but otherwise it's pretty good.
I just got finished posting about how these were preliminary rankings and to please post with more than "__ is bad" and then you post that? Sorry man but I'm kinda confused here. We realize that many of our rankings might be off but there's a much better way to fix that than "lol what is this doing here" and "What the heck happened to Tier 1.5". To respond to a couple of what you feel our most egregious oversights were, here goes:
-Tier 1.5 is in Doubles OU because there are clear separations between the best mons and many viable Pokemon. DUbers has far fewer viable Pokemon and we only really needed three tiers, for which it doesn't make sense to have 1/1.5/2. These were the borders n10sit and I drew, as a good preliminary state for everyone to adjust as we all see fit.
-"Crobat is bad. Pheromosa is bad. Mega Metagross is bad. UR pls." setting aside the dismissive tone for a second, here's why we ranked each:
Crobat has Inner Focus, Haze, Tailwind, Super Fang, an accurate Hypnosis when under Gravity, and a generally good typing for the tier
Pheromosa is faster than Deo-A, can OHKO PDon or Xerneas with the right set, and is a solid emergency button check. Don't believe me, play n10sit
Mega Metagross is bulky and powerful, beating Xern/Mega Rayquaza/Amoonguss and others while appreciating Psychic Terrain
none of them are great, but that's why they're only tier 3.
In the future, please think and read before posting.
Been playing on ladder the last few days and I come with suggestions.
Magearna Tier 2 ----> Tier 1: I have a hard time thinking of a reason not to put it on a team. Once it gets a boost it becomes the opponent's priority to stop, which can be difficult barring Primal Groudon. It also works in both Trick Room and Tailwind.
Mega Gengar Tier 3 ------> Tier 2: To a certain extent this might seem like splitting hairs, but its easy to undervalue Mega Gengar. It's a trapper with some speed control in Icy Wind and can punish attempts to Xerneas cheese.
Solgaleo UR------> Tier 3: Echoing a sentiment from above. It's a good wide guarder, has great steel stab that breaks through multiscale and shadow shield, gets psychic stab for terrain support, and gets good coverage in flare blitz, rock slide and wild charge.
Solgaleo UR------> Tier 3: Echoing a sentiment from above. It's a good wide guarder, has great steel stab that breaks through multiscale and shadow shield, gets psychic stab for terrain support, and gets good coverage in flare blitz, rock slide and wild charge.
Arceus-Rock @ Stone Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Protect
A p cool team i made which has marshadow on it. started off with m ray + marshadow to snipe pdon with hp water. added amoong to redirect for sd ray. then magearna for a tr option. pogre has a decent matchup vs pdon so i dont have to rely on hp water, and arceus rock checks the occasional ho-oh and ep is nice for magearna and pdon. sd ray + cm arceus are cool wincons and amoong helps them. marshadow also checks xern by stealing its boosts and ekiller arceus.
think marshadow should be in tier 2 since its a really good check to a lot of threatening stuff in the meta. with sash you can take an attack from xern and steal boosts, you outspeed ekiller/mkang and ko with cc, and with hp water you beat pdon.
I really enjoyed playing this tier in the Doubles Ubers tournament. Since nearly all of my experience with Groudon, etc. comes from VGC 16, I think it's really interesting to note that this doesn't feel like VGC 16 at all. Here are some core differences from what I observed:
Like in other 6v6 doubles formats, each Pokemon is less valued than in 4v4. The Xerneas that could set up and 2HKO an entire team, for example, now realistically struggles to get off a couple hits before opposing Speed control is enforced. Additionally, the flexibility to run more than one Primal without being commited to an archetype means that you can generally control what weather you want at what time, though weather management still plays a key role in defeating both Primals.
Relevant newcomers compared to VGC 16 are Arceus, Magearna, the Tapus, and Lunala, as well as Solgaleo, Marshadow, and Seismic Toss Kangaskhan rounding things out. Even though Z-Trick Room + Hypnosis and Gravity Hypnosis are still definitely a thing, sleep feels much more underwhelming when Dark Void Smeargle kicked the bucket. A majority of the supporting cast from 2016 got nerfed or is simply not good enough to see regular use in Doubles Ubers, which were notably Speed control users.
This metagame is still heavily underexplored. I feel like nobody has quite figured out how to make Arceus-N work yet, which in a metagame with 0 Fighting-types should be devastating. Setup cheese also feels largely underexplored (Z-Geomancy Xerneas and Z-Celebrate Ho-Oh with Psych Up partners come to mind), and Magearna's flexibility means I think this tier could go a long way if it's pushed to its limits.
****
After playing for a few weeks in the DUbers metagame, I'd like to make some nominations for the Viability Rankings.
Magearna: Tier 2 -> Tier 1
This Pokemon is overwhelming good. Here's fundamentally how Soul Heart works:
-Magearna and threatening Pokemon A face against threatened Pokemon B + Pokemon C (where C is the counter to A)
-If A knocks out B, Magearna gets a boost. If C stops A from getting a KO and instead knocks out A, Magearna gets a boost.
My first game of my top 8 match against Demantoid somewhat shows what I mean. On turn 4, Demantoid's Kangaskhan threatened my own with Seismic Toss, while my Kangaskhan simultaneously threatened his Magearna with the same move. In this position, it's impossible for Demantoid to stop my Magearna from getting a boost if I want it to get one, so he instead makes the best of the situation, allowing his own Magearna to get a boost. However, the Trick Room afterwards, in tandem with the Icy Wind Speed drop, allowed Magearna to quickly put that boost to good use. And that's just fundamentally why Soul Heart is good; there are a number of plays, including Protect + sack a weakened ally, switching in Magearna on the same turn as you take a knockout, and, you know, just attacking once you've accumulated boosts, that allow well-positioned unchecked Magearna to easily steamroll games (example).
Soul Heart wouldn't be anything if Magearna wasn't able to abuse them, of course. However, Magearna is by far one of the most flexible Ubers Doubles has. Its defensive typing leaves it only weak to Ground and Fire, with a notable resistance to Flying and ExtremeSpeed. Magearna's wide movepool means it can run both purely offensive and support-oriented offensive sets to a high degree of success. For example, Trick Room Magearna underspeeds the Primals and has great offensive power once in the twisted dimensions, while Shift Gear allows Magearna to easily outpace Deoxys-A and Tailroom Primals and abuse Soul Heart-boosted Dazzling Gleams. Niche options include Helping Hand and Iron Defense (Iron Defense Magearna can make Groudon's Pblades a 3HKO). Typically though, you'd see a Fairy move, Flash Cannon, Speed control, and Protect. That makes Groudon a great initial switch-in, right? Here's what Trick Room Z-Fleur Cannon does to Groudon:
+2 252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Groudon-Primal: 379-447 (93.8 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Thinking that Magearna can't reasonably get to +2 Sp. Atk is more naive than my 2016 Worlds Salamence. It's not really necessary to have to guarantee that knockout either, as any chip will easily put it into necessary range. In addition to Z-Fleur Cannon, Magearna can justifiably run Z-Thunderbolt for Ho-Oh, Z-Focus Blast for Solgaleo / Arceus, and even Z-Grass Knot to guarantee that knockout on Groudon initially. Of course, these other Z-moves are niche options, but it nevertheless does not change the fact that Magearna has them.
Magearna's primary checks to its standard set (Fairy STAB + Steel STAB + Speed control + Protect) include Groudon, Amoonguss, Solgaleo, and Ho-Oh, with Wide Guard, Taunt, V-Create Mega Rayquaza Kyogre, and Marshadow acting as soft checks. The standard Kyogre-Lunala-Magearna core, especially with a sleep answer on Lunala, handily checks these standard answers to Magearna, for example. Realistically, the best way to stop Magearna is to deny the Soul Heart boost entirely by preventing either player from taking a knockout. It's because of this unique counterplay, Magearna's flexibility, and its ability to outright sweep teams that I think Magearna ought to be tier 1.
Xerneas: Tier 1 -> Tier 2
If you told me before I started this tournament that Xerneas was anything but tier 1, I would have laughed at you and told you that you were an idiot (in fact, Dawg told me just that! s/os to Dawg <3). Nevertheless, I just don't see that as the case. I only played 2 Xerneas in my Doubles Ubers tournament matches, and I never used Xerneas myself. I believe this is because of these factors:
Unlike in VGC 16, Xerneas boosted Fairy-type attacks are not nearly as overwhelming. Arceus, Magearna, Lunala, and Solgaleo all cause significant problems for the deer, and old answers in Groudon, Bronzong, Taunt, and Haze still make Xerneas's job as a sweeper difficult to pull off. Additionally, unlike in VGC 16, you are not restricted to just two Ubers with the rest being potentially Bronzong, and otherwise, Xerneas food.
Unlike in VGC 16, where Xerneas was far and away the most viable Fairy (arguably the only viable), Magearna, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Fini offer Fairy STAB strong enough to pressure Yveltal, Rayquaza, and Marshadow. Just like in VGC 16, it cannot run an item other than Power Herb (Fairum is a meme right now), limiting its flexibility. Additionally, almost all Magearna checks are Xerneas checks inherently.
Nevertheless, Xerneas is still an extremely potent lategame sweeper that commands respect in teambuilding and at Team Preview, so it shouldn't be ranked lower than tier 2 ever (1.5 would be a good place for it if we had 1.5).
Lunala: Tier 3 -> Tier 2
Honestly, I was really surprised this was in tier 3 in the first place. With Shadow Shield, Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike or heavily offensive Yveltal are required to stop Trick Room by force. With Wide Guard and Trick Room, it offers everything Kyogre wants for a Groudon-free experience, because standard Groudon cannot hit either Kyogre or Lunala with Precipice Blades or Fire Punch. It's the best Wide Guard user the tier has available, imo. An immunity to ExtremeSpeed and a solid STAB that chunks things into Primals range is definitely useful for a team, and it even gets other cool moves like Will-o-Wisp, Roost, and can do the Hypnosis stuff too.
Salamence-Mega: UR -> Tier 3
Salamence is way worse than it was in 2016, but it still definitely has a niche as the only Tailwind setter in the tier with a decent spread move, and actually having an Intimidate to weaken Groudon / Arceus-N / Rayquaza. Even though it faces competition with Rayquaza and support Arceus, Intimidate is useful enough that in a tier with only one other Intimidate user ranked, it can find its way onto a team that doesn't require extra weather control or V-create.
Zygarde-Complete: Tier 3 -> UR
I haven't seen this thing do anything useful. Thousand Arrows is like a worse Gravity for your own Primal Groudon. Its damage output just isn't there compared to Precipice Blades, and even in Complete Forme takes 10 million from bulky Kyogre's Ice Beam:
80+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 408-484 (71.2 - 84.4%)
Meanwhile, it needs max Attack to threaten a reliable 3HKO on 252 HP Groudon.
252+ Atk Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 134-158 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
It's also trivially easy to just double target it if you really don't want it to get Complete forme.
*****
Finally, here are some of my favorite teams that I used from the Doubles Ubers tour:
A fairly simple dual Primals balance team. Arceus-Ground and Lunala provide alternate forms of Speed control as the situation calls for it.
Arceus outspeeds Mega Ray and 2HKOes with Ice Beam ~90% of the time in Delta Stream, while ensuring Groudon's Adamant Pblades is a 3HKO and living Timid Xern's +2 Moonblast.
Magearna needs 220 Speed at a minimum with Shift Gear to outspeed Deo-A at +2, so I just pumped the rest in Speed to outspeed some Primals and min Speed Arceus.
Groudon's Speed is mostly for creeping other Primals, with 401 HP to make sure Kang's SToss fails to 2HKO. Stone Edge hits Yveltal for a nice chunk of damage.
Lunala underspeeds Magearna by a point and is otherwise bland because I was lazy and didn't EV it properly.
Kangaskhan survives Jolly Life Orb Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent, outspeeds Timid Tapu Lele, and Scrappy Fake Out + Crunch KOes Lunala.
Kyogre lives two Jolly Precipice Blades from opposing Groudon, while outspeeding Marshadow in Tailwind.
Electrium Magearna isn't probably optimal here, since I built this team to fight Demantoid and wanted a way to cheese a kill on Ho-Oh, which he liked to bring. I do like a Z-move in the Magearna slot though, as Groundium Z Arceus fails to hit very hard after using its Z-crystal imo.
A fairly basic Psychic Terrain hyper offense team. The fundamental logic for this team was that with Focus Sash Shift Gear Magearna in Psychic Terrain, the boosts you accumulate quickly become too much as Dazzling Gleam does 10 million to everything at +4 or whatever you get to.
Tapu Lele's bulk ensures it survives -1 Sash Marshadow's Spectral Thief 100% of the time. Shadow Ball is there to hit Lunala, Solgaleo, and Bronzong (this team's reliance on the opponent not getting Trick Room means offensive pressure is preferred rather than Taunting into Z-Trick Room or Mental Herb)
Mewtwo's Psychic Terrain-boosted Z-Psystike only has a 75% chance of OHKOing 252 HP Arceus, so be warned. Fire Blast in Sun OHKOes 252 HP Magearna 15/16 and non-Heatproof physDef Bronzong (depending on spreads). In general, it was used over Deoxys-A because of the consistency of Psystike and because Mewtwo doesn't die in a single hit.
Yveltal survives Life Orb Dragon Ascent from Jolly Mega Rayquaza, and also survives two hits of Life Orb recoil + Adamant Groudon's Fire Punch.
The premise of this team is that Primals are the usual answer to Magearna, which double Wide Guard and Kyogre help beat.
Magearna is Modest with 1 Speed IV so if opposing TR Magearna takes a KO in Trick Room, my Soul Heart boost will be active for the turn (similarly, I can avoid inadvertently giving opposing Magearna a Soul Heart boost out of order). This also lets me attack other Magearna out of Trick Room with more confidence, especially since Soul Heart reveals Speed order. Z-Fleur Cannon is used over Dazzling Gleam for the sheer damage output of the attack.
Hitmontop provides Intimidate, FO, Wide Guard, and Feint support, all of which are appreciated by each member of the team, giving the team some control element. Eject Button gives Hitmontop utility, switching in on attacks to lay down an Intimidate while retaining momentum with the Eject Button switch. -1 Adamant Precipice Blades is a 3HKO on Hitmontop, and it survives 252+ Kyogre's Origin Pulse 100% of the time. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack for extra damage against Arceus and Kangaskhan.
Unlike in VGC 16, Adamant Mega Rayquaza doesn't Speed tie with max Speed base 100s. Imo the only reason not to use Adamant Mega Rayquaza is if you value the Speed tie.
Arceus outspeeds the Primals, with max HP and an Attack dump. Having a bulky lategame sweeper with Mago Berry and Recover, in tandem with Wide Guard and / or Hitmontop support, makes Arceus tough to break and provides the team with a unique wincon.
Well this is an excellent trick room team which I normally use and it got me to No 1 in this tier and my rating is 1900+.
Ok so this team has 3 good Trick room setters(Arceus, Lunala and
Magerena).
Groudon
Groudon is really useful when used in trick room but if possible try to use hone claws before using precipice blades cause it can miss when you most need it!!!
Rayquaza
Rayquaza with choice band is a total demon when you arent using trick room. Its main objective is to KO as many mons as possible when not in trick room.
Arceus
Arceus can be used both in trick room and not in trick room. But all the same it is a trick room setter and I did give it some speed EVs because I normally start off with Arceus and Rayquaza.
Lunala
Lunala is also one of the 3 trick room setters. I gave it Psychium Z so it can use Shattered Psyche or Z trick room (if an opponent tries taunt).
Amoongus
Well Amoongus can also be replaced with Tapu Fini since it is also a good counter to Magearna and I do have some teams in which Tapu Fini is in instead of Magearna but however so far I think I prefer Amoongus. It has decent bulk and spore is a real nightmare for Magearna to face when in trick room. It can put mons to sleep as well as act as a decoy with Rage Powder(Priority move!!) and it is a very useful mon overall.
NOW WE COME TO THE MAIN ACT OF OUR TRICK ROOM TEAM. MAGEARNA!!!
With its insane ability SOUL HEART and its amazing movepool it is a demon in Trick Room. Ok I guess most people will ask me this question. Why have I put thunderbolt instead of Flash Cannon? Well the main reason for it is to counter Fire type mons especially HO-OH. Also I put Grass Knot to counter Groudon and Kyogre. At x2.5 Sp Atk power it can OKHO them easily. It is overall a very useful mon to have for Trick room based teams.
Hope you guys like this team and be sure to play doubles ubers because I find it to be a very interesting tier!!!
We've revamped the viability rankings following the conclusion of the DUbers tournament. Here's a summary of the most significant changes.
3 Tier System --> 4 Tier System
After the tournament, it was clear that a number of Pokemon stood head and shoulders above the rest of the competition. However, they didn't quite have the same level of prowess as the Pokemon in tier 1. Wanting to make this distinction clear, we decided to adopt a 4 tier system. I originally wanted to adopt a 5 tier system, but the rest of the viability team convinced me that there weren't enough relevant threats to justify one. Here lies Crobat, Palkia, and many others; may they find greener pastures wherever they might be.
--> 1
Magearna's ability to flip the tides of battle is unparalleled. On top of this, it's able to run a variety of Z moves to lure in and KO usual checks. It's a ridiculous pain to play against, since it essentially forces you to target it down. Otherwise, you run the risk of being swept faster than you can say "Soul-Heart is broken".
--> 2
Fantastic supportive options, great bulk due to Shadow Shield, and a good deal of versatility all cement Lunala's place in the upper echelon of the DUbers metagame. It can run a variety of sets, ranging from Z-Hypnosis to bulky Wide Guard to even Scarf. It also has fantastic offensive coverage by virtue of being a Ghost-type.
--> 2
Similar to Lunala, Yveltal's strengths lie in its good combination of offensive and supportive applications. Foul Play hits like a truck in a metagame defined by strong physical attackers, as do its other Dark STABs. It also has access to Tailwind, Roost, Taunt, Sucker Punch, and more, which make it a unpredictable threat.
--> 3
Marshadow received a drop because of its overall frailty and underwhelming damage output. Without a Focus Sash, it lacks longevity, and without Life Orb, it lacks power. Overall it's still a fine choose, especially being one of the few reliable checks to Arceus, but it fails to live up to its initial hype.
--> 4
All three of these saw notable enough success to be added to tier 4. None of them are fantastic, hence why they didn't rise any further.
If you have any nominations or questions about the VR, don't hesitate to ask!
With USUM just on the horizon, I wanted to do a dump of my favorite DUbers teams. Enjoy!
I guess I shall post some simple nominations then, even if it's not the right time to do so.
Necrozma Dusk Mane: Unranked -> Tier 2
Necrozma Dusk Mane is easily one of the premier trick room setters in Doubles Ubers with its amazing bulk, Prism Armor and having high firepower. I'm not exactly sure where Ultra Necrozma and Necrozma Dawn Wing should go. But...
Solgaleo: Tier 4 -> Unranked
With the arrival of Dusk Mane, there's barely anything Solgaleo going for over Dusk Mane now.
I do not know if I am on the right forum (which discusses mostly Viability Rankings) but I try. We note that there are extremely few viable pokémons in this format (which alone centralize more than 80% of matchs). And among the outclassed there is a large number of Uber: should not we create for them a "Tier 5" (or a "D-rank")? With this message for them: "technically DUber but strongly discouraged to use". Here is the list:
• lot of Arceus (Bug, Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Grass, Ice, Poison, Psychic, Rock and Water)
• Dialga
• Giratina
• Giratina-O
• Groudon (basic)
• Kyogre (basic)
• Kyurem-W
• Lugia
• M-Mewtwo X
• M-Mewtwo Y
• Necrozma-DM (I guess VRs are not up-to-date)
• Necrozma-DW
• Ultra-Necrozma
• Palkia
• Rayquaza (basic)
• Snorlax
• Reshiram
• Zekrom
• Zygarde-C
