Metagame Doubles Ubers

DaWoblefet · Dec 16, 2022

Welcome to Doubles Ubers! Like all official Smogon tiers, Doubles Ubers is restricted to Pokemon that are currently obtainable in Scarlet and Violet.

Doubles Ubers is a 6v6 doubles format with no Pokemon banned. Otherwise, it mirrors most clauses from Doubles OU, such as Species Clause and Evasion Clause (notably, Gravity Sleep clause is not present). You can play DUbers on Pokemon Showdown, usually through the Doubles Ubers ladder. You can also ask for challenges in the Smogon Doubles room for battles with experienced players. Feel free to discuss DUbers in this thread, the Smogon Doubles room, or the #dubers channel in the Doubles Discord.

Bring 6 Pokemon, Doubles. Players can use only and all Pokemon obtainable in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.

Endless Battle Clause: Anything capable of intentionally creating an endless battle is banned.
Evasion Moves Clause: Players cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize.
OHKO Clause: Players cannot use the moves Horn Drill, Guillotine, Sheer Cold, or Fissure.
Species Clause: Players cannot use two Pokemon with the same Pokedex number on the same team.

Viability Rankings
Doubles Ubers tiering is done by DaWoblefet, Lord Death Man, Yuichi, Smudge, zee, Arcticblast and laptops. Within tiers, Pokemon are ordered alphabetically. Feel free to suggest nominations in this thread!

>>Tier 1<<

Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.

Arceus

Calyrex-Shadow
:Koraidon:

Koraidon

Miraidon

>>Tier 2<<

Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.

Calyrex-Ice
:Tornadus:

Tornadus

Zacian-Crowned
:Zamazenta-Crowned:

Zamazenta-Crowned

>>Tier 3<<

Pokemon that are generally strong, but less powerful than those in Tier 2 or Pokemon that require a decent amount of support or a specific team style to function well, but are defining pieces to said archetypes.

Arceus-Fire
:Arceus-Ground:

Arceus-Ground
:Chien-Pao:

Chien-Pao

Grimmsnarl
:Groudon:

Groudon

Indeedee-Female
:Magearna:

Magearna

Sableye

>>Tier 4<<

This tier contains either Pokemon that have broad applications on a variety of teams, but are simply less effective than those in higher tiers, or are only particularly useful for certain team styles.

Amoonguss

Arceus-Dark
:arceus:

Arceus-Fairy
:Arceus-Ghost:

Arceus-Ghost
:Arceus-Water:

Arceus-Water
:armarouge:

Armarouge

Chi-Yu

Cresselia

Dondozo

Eternatus

Flutter Mane
:Iron Bundle:

Iron Bundle
:Iron Hands:

Iron Hands
:iron-moth:

Iron Moth

Iron Valiant
:Kyogre:

Kyogre

Palkia

Rayquaza

Rillaboom

Tatsugiri

Ursaluna

Stay tuned for sample teams!

tyo · Jan 11, 2023

Screen_Shot_2023-01-11_at_3.23.33_PM.png

Team
(click above for the paste)

The idea behind this team came from Doubles OU World Cup where I topped ladder and won my week 1 vs Z Strats with this team.

It felt really strong and I really enjoyed playing it. However Tatsugiri soon got banned and I found other teams to use in DOU. Recently I saw that the Doubles Ubers ladder was up and I wanted to try the team out again. I quickly learned that the team made for DOU could not handle Miraidon well so I changed my Flutter Mane to be as fast as possible since even with the bulk, it gets one shot by the dragons. I also wanted to try the DUbers mons so I replaced Arcanine with Koraidon. I initially had Koraidon with AV and Snarl like Arcanine but the more I played, the more I felt I wasn't using it to its maximum potential. Hence I added a choice band to make it as strong as possible.

Using this team is very simple. Almost every game I lead Dragonite Chien-Pao and take as many quick kills as possible. Particularly if the opponent has Murkrow, I aim to kill it within the first few turns as once Murkrow dies, Dondozo usually just wins against everything not named Miraidon. Keep in mind that Tera Normal Extreme Speed next to Chien Pao does not kill Miraidon or Koraidon in one shot so you have to also sucker punch to make sure you kill it without losing the speed tie.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me and I hope you try out and enjoy the team!

tyo · Jan 18, 2023

Screen Shot 2023-01-18 at 7.10.46 AM.png

Team

I really enjoyed this format so I played a bit more and updated the team a bit from my previous post. Choice Band Dondozo really wasn't the move since I tera'd Dragonite almost every game and then Miraidon just beat me which wasn't great as I believe Miraidon is the best Pokemon in this format currently. Hence, I changed Dondozo to Tera Ground and also made Tatsugiri the speed variant as one order up will allow me to outspeed Miraidon. I also managed to match against some of the higher rated opponents so I will drop some replays below.

VS DoerreKong
VS DoerreKong again
VS N1
VS k25Greeza
VS kekker3

Les2BG · Jan 20, 2023

https://pokepast.es/ad0a698d5191313e
Since I have top1 of the ladder with only one team I think this one is viable and deserves to be posted here
The principle of the team is simple, we will often lead on chiyu and flutter mane to force the opponent to take damage on miraidon, put his tailwind early.... With Icy wind, you can take control of the opponent's speed to allow Chi-yu to overtake a flutter mane for example. Taunt on Chi-yu allows to improve the Trick Room matchup and to prevent too annoying protect of the opponent
Then a Miraidon/Iron Hands core set but a little subtlety on Iron Hands, it has enough speed to overtake with the Tailwind all 405 speed base (Miraidon/Flutter Mane/Koraidon/Chien Pao....)
And finally Chien Pao and Murkrow, Chien Pao is mostly used to rk/inflict small damage to big threats like miraidon (tera fairy) he can also clean up game ends. Murkrow will be used to set tailwind and control the speed of the game, Thunder Wave allows that in case of tailwind on both sides we can still take the speed advantage
If you want more details on the use of the team or anything else feel free to pm me or send me messages on discord at LSDA#3908

FerahgoTheGreat · Jan 26, 2023

I am AzaraTheGreat and I used this team to consistently fight in the top 10 on the leaderboard. I am 1-0 against tyo and 3-1 against Les2BG (if I am remembering right) out of the players currently in the top 10.
I've never really grinded any leaderboard besides hackmons before, but gen 9 doubles ubers has some ridiculous power/speed creep that looked fun.
My philosophy for this team is: outspeed everything and one-shot everything.

The star is choice specs miraidon. Edrift obliterates almost everything, but I find myself clicking dazzling gleam most of the time. Fairy is incredibly strong at the moment, and even resists have trouble taking more than two hits from tera fairy dgleam. Draco does good chip if I think they will tera ground dondozo if I lost murkrow somehow.

The most important member is obviously murkrow. Scarfed chi-yu and iron moth are super helpful for dealing with logjam of speed ties at 405, but murkrow is the ideal speed controller, that can also counter enemy tailwinds and deal with +speed flutter mane. This team loses without speed control (only if the enemy gains speed control, it tends to win if the tailwinds get tied). Sacking chi-yu or another threat is often my play to preserve this thing for another tailwind that almost always seals the game.

Scarfed Iron moth is my third most used pokemon. It outspeeds the 405 logjam, and very few mons like switching into SpA boosted heat wave. If they don't have a tailwind setter, miraidon dgleam + imoth hwave wipes just about everything. Dazzling gleam is just useful, and energy ball is a relatively safe bet to spam dondozo with if I lose murkrow.

Scarfed Chi-yu is my least useful mon so far. It is really nice to ensure the SpA attackers on the team can obliterate anything, but it doesn't have as many useful options as iron moth except the spammable heat wave. Tera ghost is useful for hitting specific mons (sand boosted houndstone, or non-sun boosted fluttermane), but I've never really used it.

Banded koraidon is much less useful than miraidon, but one good physical threat is nice. Tera fire is predictable, but far too synergistic for me to chose something else even if my team has an overabundance of fire. There are a lot of interesting moves that could be slotted in instead of these 4.

Flutter mane was my newest addition. I tried out scarfed sandy shocks but found it to be mostly just good against pokemon I had no trouble dealing with, I brought in iron bundle as a flutter mane outspeed, but it didn't do enough damage. Flutter mane is just a speed tie with flutter mane, so it puts a lot of pressure on murkrow to ensure the speed control. Fmane threatens almost everything, and specs helps bring up its power level to the rest of the team. Tera water is unexpected, but not super useful so far. Some moves and the tera can be swapped.

Things the team is good against:
Slow teams: Pretty much anything that can't gain speed control cant survive enough hits to make an impact.
Similar teams. The plethora of choice items helps bring a significant advantage against fellow tailwind-setting 405-speed spamming teams. I tend to get many surprise outspeeds with scarfes that opponents cant recover from, and even in speed ties, specs/band generally come out on top. The power level is so high, I don't even have to worry about opponents outplaying the choiced items in most cases since resisted switch ins still get nuked.

Things this team must be wary of:
Trick room. troom must be stopped at all costs. I haven't gotten around to figuring out an indeedee follow me counter yet, but that consists of most of my losses so far.
Priority/more speed boosts: My team is built to defeat all the strong fast teams, but if they outmaneuver your tailwind/have more scarfs (unlikely), there are relatively few defensive options.

As someone who doesn't do much competetive team crafting, I have been very happy with how well this team is doing. There are some versatility issues, but I have been beating top teams regardless. In an open team sheet, I would guess this team would struggle more, but all the choice items really help win most matchups and catch many opponents off guard.

Piunicoulours · Jan 30, 2023

Hello,

I am Piunicoulours. I am currently ranked 2nd and 10th on the Ladder Double Uber. Les2BG convinced me to present my Team, even though it looks like theirs since we built it together. We also created a French document. If you have any ideas or suggestions, feel free to contact us.

Team Creation,

The team is a Tailwind Hyper Offence based on special attackers. It consists of a demonic quartet of Miridon (mostly : Tera Fairy), Chi-Yu, and Fluttermane and Iron Bundle. The goal of these Pokemon is simply to do as much damage as possible and it works. Honestly, using double Dazzling Gleam from Miridon and Fluttermane is a lot of fun. The other two Pokemon serve as utility. The Murkrow is used to set up Tailwind and deal with potential shenanigans with Haze. Iron Hand serves as support and helps against strong leads like Dragonite and Chien Pao or Grimmsnarl and Murkrow.

Team,

	Miraidon @ Aguav Berry Ability: Hadron Engine Tera Type: Fairy EVs: 24 HP / 228 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature - Protect - Electro Drift - Dazzling Gleam - Taunt	The Aguav Berry is here to give Miraidon more time to shine. The Tera is Fairy boost Dazzling Gleam. The Evs repartition is here to be sure to tank an Extreme Speed from Dragonite boosted by Sword of Ruin. Protect and Taunt is here to stop the Tricky Room and to stall.
	Iron Hands @ Aguav Berry Ability: Quark Drive Tera Type: Fighting EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spe Jolly Nature - Fake Out - Thunder Punch - Drain Punch - Protect	The Aguav Berry is here to give Iron Hands more time to shine and to help to tank two Dazzling Gleam from Fluttermane. The EVs repartition is here to allow IH to out speed under the Tailwind all the 405 pokemon even the Iron Bundle if they are not boost. Max in HP to tank the rest in atk.
	Iron Bundle @ Life Orb Ability: Quark Drive Tera Type: Ice EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Freeze-Dry - Hydro Pump - Icy Wind - Protect	Very easy set here. Icy Wind to help the other to outspeed. Freeze-Dry and H Pump for the stab. Life Orb for more damage.
	Flutter Mane @ Focus Sash Ability: Protosynthesis Tera Type: Ghost EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Dazzling Gleam - Shadow Ball - Icy Wind - Protect	Same ultra classic set. Focus Sash is a Les2BG set and it's work. Some times I use Tera Ground.
	Chi-Yu @ Weakness Policy Ability: Beads of Ruin Tera Type: Ghost EVs: 200 HP / 156 Def / 16 SpA / 136 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Protect - Dark Pulse - Heat Wave - Taunt	This set comes from the 1v1 but a little change. 136 Spe allow CY to outspeed the 85 base speed like Indeedee-F. The HP and the Def are here to allow to survive a Sacred Sword from Chien Pao. The rest in SpA. Taunt and Protect are here to break the Tricky Room. Tera Ghost is here to not be hit by Extreme Speed.
	Murkrow @ Eviolite Ability: Prankster Tera Type: Ghost EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD Impish Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Tailwind - Foul Play - Protect - Haze	Same as Flutterman it's the commun set for him. Haze could be change by T-Wave.

Thank you for reading.
I wish you the best. If you find any errors or anything else, do not hesitate to contact me.

AIRedzone · Jan 31, 2023

I am waiting for the day when DUbers expands beyond the same 10 mons shuffled around
Don and Ogre bouta go hard

Piunicoulours · Feb 1, 2023

AIRedzone said:
I am waiting for the day when DUbers expands beyond the same 10 mons shuffled around
Don and Ogre bouta go hard

This Day is Coming
This Day is Coming
Tell the world, this day is coming
Let the rain wash away the pain of yesterday.
All these moments will be lost in time... like... tears in the rain
I know your number one court is waiting for you, and we'll be behind you.
No, really, I'm done parodying (I'm Coming Home ft. Skylar Grey) because normally around spring they'll release Pokemon Home. And I don't have any more information but I think they're going to bring back pokemons like Arceus, Rayquaza, Zacian etc...

Les2BG · Feb 2, 2023

After having tried to build teams on a lot of pokémon that were not played much but had potential I'm going to post here one of my coolest

I used two pokémon that were not used much Iron Valiant and Skeledirge
iron valiant is a good focus sash user a bad speed but access to moves like wide guard, destiny bond, helping hand, skill swap, taunt
Skeledirge has a good type giving him answers to many physical pokémon, has torch song, wow, hex, helping hand, earth power, slack off
the team : https://pokepast.es/26ae14f5679191e5
Iron valiant classic wide guard is used to prevent dazzling gleam/heat wave mainly and can be very cost effective if used at the right time ( the mon doesn't have much more useful than that in this team)
Iron hands full spdef the distribution can surely be improved but as I had no idea for that I left it like that
Miraidon with flash cannon allows you to take kills on Chien Pao for example even if wide guard is used by the opponent the rest is classic
Nothing to say about Iron bundle and Chien Pao
Skeledirge with tera fairy allows us to kill a Chien Pao easily if he uses crunch on us
and it helps us to improve the match up against trick room otherwise a bit difficult
If you want more details on the use of the team or other do not hesitate to pm me or send me messages on discord to LSDA#3908

Piunicoulours · Feb 2, 2023

Les2BG said:
After having tried to build teams on a lot of pokémon that were not played much but had potential I'm going to post here one of my coolest View attachment 488820 View attachment 488821 View attachment 488822 View attachment 488823 View attachment 488824 View attachment 488825
I used two pokémon that were not used much Iron Valiant and Skeledirge
iron valiant is a good focus sash user a bad speed but access to moves like wide guard, destiny bond, helping hand, skill swap, taunt
Skeledirge has a good type giving him answers to many physical pokémon, has torch song, wow, hex, helping hand, earth power, slack off
the team : https://pokepast.es/26ae14f5679191e5
Iron valiant classic wide guard is used to prevent dazzling gleam/heat wave mainly and can be very cost effective if used at the right time ( the mon doesn't have much more useful than that in this team)
Iron hands full spdef the distribution can surely be improved but as I had no idea for that I left it like that
Miraidon with flash cannon allows you to take kills on Chien Pao for example even if wide guard is used by the opponent the rest is classic
Nothing to say about Iron bundle and Chien Pao
Skeledirge with tera fairy allows us to kill a Chien Pao easily if he uses crunch on us
and it helps us to improve the match up against trick room otherwise a bit difficult
If you want more details on the use of the team or other do not hesitate to pm me or send me messages on discord to LSDA#3908 (edit : the pictures are really ugly sorry ;-; )

Yo pour les images tu peux directement les copier coller depuis le pokepast.
[Et utiliser la fonction Thumbnail, pour reduire la taille]

Les2BG · Feb 2, 2023

Piunicoulours said:
Yo pour les images tu peux directement les copier coller depuis le pokepast.

thank you it's already more fun to watch

Piunicoulours · Feb 3, 2023

Hi there ... Piunicoulours here.
Some time ago I made a promise to Les2BG. I have to make a post every 2 weeks about the meta.
My first post will be about one of the most striking and dangerous duos. The first one that really hurt me.
Let me introduce you to the famous, the fabulous, the so familiar dynamique duo : Chien-Pao & Dragonite.
If we look at the uses of its pokemons for the month of January, we can see that the Dragonite was the 5th and Chien-Pao was the 7th most popular pokemon.

Dnite Sword of Ruin

Explanation of the Duo's strength :
This core is based on the "Extreme Speed" attack of Dragonite which can take advantage of the teracrystallization "Normal" (for the S.T.A.B) and of the use of Chien-Pao's talent "Sword of Ruin" which lowers the defense of 25 % of each pokemon on the field.

Core set :

	Chien-Pao @ Focus Sash Ability: Sword of Ruin Tera Type: Ghost EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Sucker Punch - Ice Spinner - Ice Shard - Sacred Sword	The set here is simple, we want to hit hard and fast. You can use Crunch instead of Sacred Sword to use the STAB and to attack "Indeedee-F", "Armarouge" if you are under the psychic terrain. You can use "protect" to stall or "Haze" to by pass the Dondozo. The Tera Ghost is here to lure the "Fake Out".
	Dragonite @ Choice Band Ability: Inner Focus Tera Type: Normal EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant Nature - Extreme Speed - Iron Head - Rock Slide - Dragon Claw	This set is also simple, we want to hit hard and to tank. The rest in Speed are here to outspeed the other Dragonite. Iron Head is here for some Fairy mon. Rock Slide to beat up both oppenents at the same time. And D-Claw is here for the natural STAB. But you can run Fire Punch, Facade or even Earthquake instead. Depends on what you want to do. Inner Focus is here to not be flinch or intimidate.

To better understand the power, here are some calculations :

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme
Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 294-346 (86.2 - 101.4%) – 12.5% chance to
OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme
Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 294-346 (86.2 - 101.4%) – 12.5% chance
to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme
Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Koraidon: 261-307 (76.5 - 90%) – guaranteed
2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme
Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dondozo: 261-307 (59.1 - 69.6%) – guaranteed
2HKO

Coupled with Chien-Pao's attacks, this duo is a huge threat to teams that don't have a playable counter.

Some counters :

Personally I use "Fake out" - Iron Hands and Fairy - Miraidon. The goal is to flinch the Chien Pao with Iron Hands hand after destroyed him/her with Dazzling Gleam. Then you protect on the Miraidon and use Drain Punch to finish the Dragonite with your Iron Hands.

You can also use a Ghost - Chi Yu and a FS -Flutter mane. The goal here is to use protect on the Flutter man to avoid a possible sucker punch from Chien Poa and to tera your Chi Yu and to use heat wave. Then you protect your Chi Yu and you use Dazzling Gleam with your Flutter Mane.

Conclusion :
This duo is very dangerous and you need to be ready to defend yourself. They force you to play sets with some EVs in HP or Def to avoid getting OHKO early in the game.
This duo if played well can finish games.
I invite you to innovate to defend yourselves and to innovate to make sure that it will always be as successful in the future.

If my English is not good, I invite you to tell me and correct me.
If you want me to add things, don't hesitate to do so. Every little step can make this tier more playable.
Have a good one and thanks you for the view.
---------------
Piunicoulours

Piunicoulours · Feb 12, 2023

Hi there Piunicoulours ... strick back (Yes I know I'm not the 2nd or the 10th in the ladder but I promise to get my crown back.)
First of all, I would like to remind you that : "The French room “Arcade” on PS is hosting a doubles Ubers tournament on Feb 12th at 21:00 GMT +1". They call it D.U.F.O (Doubles Uber French Open).
For my second post, I would like to focus on the whale and the weird thing in the 9 generation. The well known and well played duo in medium ladd [1 & 2]. The famous new Laurel and Hardy, Tatsugiri and Dondozo.

The New Laurel & Hardy [3]

Explanation of the Duo's strength :
The power of this duo lies in the talent of Tatsugiri : "Commander", If this Pokemon is a Tatsugiri and a Dondozo is an active ally, this Pokemon goes into the Dondozo's mouth. The Dondozo has its Attack, Special Attack, Speed, Defense, and Special Defense raised by 2 stages. During the effect, the Dondozo cannot be switched out, this Pokemon cannot select an action, and attacks targeted at this Pokemon will be avoided but it will still take indirect damage. If this Pokemon faints during the effect, a Pokemon can be switched in as a replacement but the Dondozo remains unable to be switched out. If the Dondozo faints during the effect, this Pokemon regains the ability to select an action.

This literally means that you have a huge dondozo at +2 in all its stats but you lose the interest of the duo.

There is a particular way of playing this duet that turns it into a trio. If the Tatsugiri dies of death, it can be replaced by a Flamingo with the costar talent. This gives you 2 fully boosted pokemons.

Core set :
This duo can be played in many different ways. If you want to be strong, tanky, have a second mon with ya.
For the Tatsugiri :

	Tatsugiri @ Choice Scarf Ability: Commander Tera Type: Dragon EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Draco Meteor - Muddy Water - Icy Wind - Dragon Pulse	This set is based on the speed of the mon. The goal is to allow him to outspeed almost every other mon without a boost. He will have 433 Spe. You can use a specific Tera Steel, to tank the Fairy attack and to attack Fairy-Miraidon and Flutter Mane.
	Tatsugiri @ Toxic Orb Ability: Commander Tera Type: Grass EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe Mild Nature IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD - Draco Meteor - Muddy Water - Endure - Protect	The goal here is to make him died from Toxic. And then use an other mon to destroy the adverse team with a +2 all Dondozo.

For Dondozo :

	Dondozo @ Leftovers Ability: Unaware Tera Type: Ground EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD Adamant Nature IVs: 0 SpA - Substitute - Earthquake - Order Up - Protect	Here you have a very bulky mon. The goal is to protect and use a sub to tank the attack. Tera Ground is here to not be touch by Miraidon and to give a powerfull stab to the Earthquake. Order Up is here to give more Atk to the mon. You can run Tera : Grass to tank the Meowscarada and to tank the Miraidon. You may want to use a more powerfull Dondozo with this spread : 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD and in this case you can run Wave Crash insteed of Order Up.
	Dondozo @ Leftovers Ability: Unaware Tera Type: Ground EVs: 72 Atk / 252 SpD / 184 Spe Careful Nature IVs: 0 SpA - Sleep Talk - Wave Crash - Order Up - Rest	You can run earthquake insteed of Sleep Talk
	Dondozo @ Choice Band Ability: Unaware Tera Type: Ground EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe Adamant Nature IVs: 0 SpA - Wave Crash - Liquidation - Order Up - Earthquake	This is normal Choice Band set

All the set could be find here [3]
Some counters :
The ultimate goal of the counter is to destroy Dondozo as Tatsugiri is a silent pokemon. So you need to focus your attack only on the whale.

	Meowscarada @ Choice Band Ability: Protean Tera Type: Grass EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Flower Trick - Sucker Punch - Knock Off - U-turn	Here the goal is to use Flower Trick on the Dondozo. This does a lot of damage on a non tera Dondozo. 252 Atk Choice Band Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo on a critical hit: 300-354 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
	Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet Ability: Effect Spore Tera Type: Water EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Clear Smog - Protect - Rage Powder - Pollen Puff	Here, the goal is to use Clear Smog to clean the Dondozo's boosts.
	Murkrow @ Eviolite Ability: Insomnia Tera Type: Ghost EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD Impish Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Foul Play - Haze - Protect - Tailwind	Here, the goal is to use Haze to clean the Dondozo's boosts.
	Miraidon @ Magnet Ability: Hadron Engine Tera Type: Electric EVs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature - Electro Drift - Dazzling Gleam - Protect - Taunt	Here the goal is to use Electro Drift on the Dondozo. This does a lot of damage on a non tera Dondozo. 232 SpA Magnet Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift (133.3251953125 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dondozo in Electric Terrain: 432-510 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

All the set could be find here [4]
Some teams :
Here you will find some team. I don't built them myself, I test them. But to be honnest, I don't really like this duo.
cruisinconnor2: https://pokepast.es/a09567150fadaa12
cruisinconnor2: https://pokepast.es/64033d2e0cee7c63
mdecker4: https://pokepast.es/a23236e2cf36dc4c Tips : I usually just make it the sweeper for end game Just kind of comes in at the right time
Les2BGs: https://pokepast.es/1e9748c05beaa886
How the Les2BGs' team was built
dondozo has the spread for a +2 (with wholesale order) exceed chi-yu
tera grass preferred here to tera ground for resistance to flower trick
Guss who can well tempo miraidon/meowscara because we will not want to slam our tera on dondozo all the time
rocky helmet especially to punish fake out but can also be used against maushold population bomb even if it's meh
miraidon because otherwise the team lacked damage, classic set with volt switch to be able to activate dondozo + tatsugiri more easily
kingambit which helps a lot vs tr which otherwise is a bit impossible to manage
classic set the spread is not used to tank something in particular we just want to do good damage with it
flutter mane sash tera dark (especially for taunt) with trick room to be able to fire a tr easily

Conclusion :
For the record, I want to give a special thanks to Cruisinconnor, mdecker4 and Les2BGs for his team and also to Wolfe Glick a youtuber who do some pokemon stuff. Feel free to change the set.
This duo can be very strong when you have shot down the opponent's countermeasures. But its big worry is Miraidon who can just destroy the core because Dondozo has a spD worry.
So I recommend you to destroy the pokemons listed above to play the duo effectively.
Another negative point is that this duo goes against the principle of a duo. Indeed in the end we have only one pokemon against all the others without being able to switch.
I don't recommand you the Toxic Orb se for the Tat cause it's a dead weight.

If my English is not good, I invite you to tell me and correct me.
If you want me to add things, don't hesitate to do so. Every little step can make this tier more playable.
Have a good one and thanks you for the view.

Don't worry my next bill while be more professional.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piunicoulours
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Sources :
[1] : https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-01/gen9doublesubers-0.txt
[2] : https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-01/gen9doublesubers-1500.txt
[3] : https://pokepast.es/96c00b39dd4de167
[4] : https://pokepast.es/77586f72a9fbb692

Actuarily · Feb 14, 2023

After playing Dubers in Maushold Cup I wanted to give my thoughts on the tier.

Everything is weak to Fairy. This makes the fairy mons insanely good, giving value to stuff like Iron Valiant, Sylveon, and Hatterene that you wouldn’t expect to be good. It also means things that resist fairy are very worthwhile, such as Iron Treads and Glimmora.

Focus Sash is a great item. There’s a lot of glass cannons in the tier, which results in most teams running like 3+ focus sashes. You can either try to play around this, or set up hazards or use something (like sand) to break sashes.

Trick Room is really good - if you can get it up. So many of the teams in the tier are something like Murkrow + Flutter + Box Legends + two fillers. These teams often just lose if you’re able to position an offensive fairy or something similar in TR you can just do so much damage that you’ve basically won by the time TR is done.

Next, my Dubers Tierlist (likely missing something). Tiers 1 & 2 are ordered.

Top Mons Explanations:
:Flutter Mane:

Flutter is the best mon in the tier by a lot. Almost everything in this tier is weak to fairy, and with its speed + protosynthesis, it outspeeds and gets big damage on everything. It’s so versatile, can be an offensive TR mon, a fast focus sash mon with icy wind support, or a bulky offensive mon. You can often just lead it and let it do like 200% its health in damage, or can use it late game as a cleaner. Some calcs to be aware of:
252 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Miraidon: 284-336 (83 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Flutter Mane: 210-248 (83.3 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

:Miraidon:

Miraidon is the second best mon in the tier, with a ridiculous ability that both enables partners and itself, alongside box legend stats and a broken move in electro drift. You can run specs or LO and just kill everything, or can go with scarf or sash and still do crazy amounts of damage. It also gets stuff like dazzling gleam and overheat to check its checks.

:Koraidon:

When I first started, I thought Koraidon was pretty mid, just something that enables protosynthesis mons. Then I found its best set: AV Tera Fire with Flame Charge. This thing beats everything in the tier other than like Dondozo. This is probably the best user of Tera in the tier, its natural typing is very bad, but once you Tera fire, you just have to flame charge once to outspeed Iron Treads, and the game is basically won. If you want you can try to fit drain punch, but it needs Adamant to really ohko Iron Treads:
252+ Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 318-374 (99 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

:Iron Hands:

Iron hands is the 4th best mon in the tier, might be T1 worthy. AV is insane, it can eat hits from all the top threats in Flutter Mane & Miraidon, and hit them back hard. Fake out is obviously great utility, and it’s a solid TR check. Play Rough should always be on this mon, as it beats the dragons & allows you to hit hard on opposing Iron Hands. Some calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 257-304 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 252-297 (100.3 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

:Murkrow:

Murkrow is here for two reasons, prankster tailwind & Haze. Speed control is super important in a tier with so many glass cannons, and so prankster tailwind is king. Haze is the easiest counter to Dondozo & Tatsugiri, and since Murkrow gets both its a top 5 mon.

:Iron Treads:

When I first started looking at the tier, the thing that immediately stood out to me was how good a ground/steel type would be. Immediately realized Iron Treads has the perfect typing & ability for the tier. It beats the top two mons, provides a valuable fairy resist, and is still solid into a lot of the Pokémon on the periphery. Just a classic case of a Pokémon being perfect into the top threats in an Ubers format, despite it being very mediocre in OU. One thing to note is that you need attack quark drive boost to ohko Miraidon, so you run 180 speed EVs jolly, or choose to not ohko it and instead outspeed it.

252 Atk Life Orb Quark Drive Iron Treads Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 374-445 (109.6 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Treads Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 289-343 (84.7 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

:Chien-Pao:

Another great haze & focus sash user, with great offensive typing & priority moves. It does have a bit of 4 move slot syndrome though, since it wants to run each of haze/ice spinner/ice shard/sucker punch/protect.

:Iron Bundle:

Good speed control in icy wind, but it doesn’t do much damage on its own, especially since sun is so frequently up, making hydro pump almost worthless. But being faster than all the 135 base speed mons and having icy wind is enough. Just run sash next to miraidon and spam icy wind + electro drifts.

:Dondozo:

&

These 2 can absolutely win games at the dubers level, but there is so much haze murkrow around it can get tough to sweep. In my mind, the best way to use these two is to either try to lure and ko the opposing haze murkrow before you set up the Dondozo (either through using tatsugiri to hit Murkrow, or by setting your own tailwind and forcing them to get murkrow on the field to respond), or to use these two to take out their murkrow, and then win while the opponent's speed control is neutered. That being said, even getting a boosted Dondozo isn't an automatic win like it nearly was in DOU, as the power level here is quite higher with stuff like Miraidon being able to OHKO a boosted non-tera'd Dondozo, while also preventing rest variants with electric terrain.

Some Teams: (Just click the mons for the paste)

This team is all about setting up hazards with Glimmora to break focus sashes and then setting tailwind to win with the goodstuffs. My first real Dubers team, I got to #1 on the ladder with it in like only 3 losses.. but most hardcore ladderers are ready for it now.

A fun little weakness policy + bulldoze Oranguru team. Idea is to try to self-activate weakness policies on either Iron Hands or Iron Moth and sweep as much as you can under trick room, and after that Flutter + Miraidon + Chien-pao can win in the end. The speeds are all set up so that Oranguru will go first under Trick room to use bulldoze, and then after that Iron Hands and Iron Moth are slower so you can use an attack + instruct. Leading Iron Hands + Oranguru pretty much always gets TR up.

Les2BG · Feb 21, 2023

Since Actuarily made a tierlist of the tier and I don't agree with him on some pokémon I'm coming to expose my opinion on the meta with the pokémon I met on the ladder

Since I don't have the courage to describe my entire tierlist, I'll just explain why some pokemons are in the top third when you'd think they'd be bad (I'm not talking about the pokemons below because it's rarely usable)

Amoonguss is for me very good in the tier, good bulk, access to interesting attacks like Rage powder or pollen puff, resists miraidon

Kingambit is just super strong in the current meta, a good double type, tera fly very strong on him, a priority and a good special bulk with AV. His only flaw for me is that he can get cheap very easily and when without an amoonguss to heal himself he quickly loses some of his usefulness but otherwise he's a great value

Meowscara is quite inflexible but excellent in his role, with a scarf he can take a ko on just about any pokémon in the tier with Play rought, flower trick, knock off, brick break/low kick.....

Rain + Jet Punch tera water band is just insane

Skeledirge allows you to tank a lot of physical pokémon while being able to hit hard and boost yourself

Iron moth specs with sun and quark drive is devastating

I finish with him, a poké that I personally find very bad but since he is present in the meta and we have to be prepared for it I place him here. but pls don't play him it's just.... meh

If you want me to explain my opinion on one or more pokemon, feel free to send me a message on smogon/discord (LSDA#3908) Yes, I was a bit rough sorry :(

Les2BG · Feb 21, 2023

To show how Kingambit and play as I think many don't play/see him I'm going to show you a team that I really like with him team : https://pokepast.es/2acbd4048e7611e0

The principle of this team is simple: Kill all the opposing pokémon using the toxic spikes that Glimmora makes appear thanks to its talent
We have a

glimmora scarf, with 164+ in speed that allows us to exceed Iron Bundle full speed, the rest goes in spa and hp

Amoonguss classic full spdef Tera dark to prevent taunt and occa bery to be able to tank a Flare Blitz from Koraidon

Miraidon is here to do most of the team's damage and to prevent it from being too passive: Classic set with Parabolic Charge to be able to have another way of recovering hp a by the bay but it can also be replaced by calm mind for example

Grimmsnarl to lay the walls nothing to say in particular the set is standard

Maushold support with Friend Guard to minimize the damage the team takes with Super Fang to make it easier for the team to pass Amoonguss

and finally Kingambit, with his AV set he is extremely threatening and hard to kill if you hit him on the special and it's not super efficient : 252 SpA Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kingambit in Electric Terrain: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Classic set with Tera blast and tera fly we gain a good defensive type and we can put big damage to Amoonguss
If you want more details about the use of the team or anything else feel free to pm me or send me messages on discord at LSDA#3908 ( this is going to be my signature phrase ;-;)

AIRedzone · Feb 21, 2023

Les2BG said:
Since Actuarily made a tierlist of the tier and I don't agree with him on some pokémon I'm coming to expose my opinion on the meta with the pokémon I met on the ladder View attachment 493950
Since I don't have the courage to describe my entire tierlist, I'll just explain why some pokemons are in the top third when you'd think they'd be bad (I'm not talking about the pokemons below because it's rarely usable)
View attachment 493951Amoonguss is for me very good in the tier, good bulk, access to interesting attacks like Rage powder or pollen puff, resists miraidon
View attachment 493952Kingambit is just super strong in the current meta, a good double type, tera fly very strong on him, a priority and a good special bulk with AV. His only flaw for me is that he can get cheap very easily and when without an amoonguss to heal himself he quickly loses some of his usefulness but otherwise he's a great value
View attachment 493954Meowscara is quite inflexible but excellent in his role, with a scarf he can take a ko on just about any pokémon in the tier with Play rought, flower trick, knock off, brick break/low kick.....
View attachment 493955 Rain + Jet Punch tera water band is just insane
View attachment 493956 Skeledirge allows you to tank a lot of physical pokémon while being able to hit hard and boost yourself
View attachment 493957 Iron moth specs with sun and quark drive is devastating
View attachment 493958 I finish with him, a poké that I personally find very bad but since he is present in the meta and we have to be prepared for it I place him here. but pls don't play him it's just.... meh

If you want me to explain my opinion on one or more pokemon, feel free to send me a message on smogon/discord (LSDA#3908) Yes, I was a bit rough sorry :(

Amoonguss can't really do much against Miraidon since electric terrain blocks spore, and it can threaten a KO with Overheat (which is uncommon). It loses to Koraidon and Iron Bundle too, but has decent matchups into Flutter Mane and Iron Treads. Overall, in the offense-focused meta, it has some value with rage powder and pollen puff but its main functionality being shut down by electric terrain really hurts its viability.

Meowscarada similarly loses to the top threats: dazzling gleam from Miraidon and Flutter Mane, Fire moves from Koraidon, Ice moves from Bundle, and Fighting moves from iron hands. Scarf play rough is interesting and can hit both the dragons, but they typically tera or don't die in one hit, limiting its value.

Sun is everywhere in this meta, so unless you're using manual rain on Murkrow, palafin's utility is limited. I'm also unconvinced about Kingambit, but I'll try it out on a team perhaps and see for myself.

Overall, I think Actuarily's VR is pretty solid (I'd maybe move bundle up into t1 because it edges out the top 3 in speed).

Home pls come quick thx

Les2BG · Feb 22, 2023

AIRedzone said:
Amoonguss can't really do much against Miraidon since electric terrain blocks spore, and it can threaten a KO with Overheat (which is uncommon). It loses to Koraidon and Iron Bundle too, but has decent matchups into Flutter Mane and Iron Treads. Overall, in the offense-focused meta, it has some value with rage powder and pollen puff but its main functionality being shut down by electric terrain really hurts its viability.

Meowscarada similarly loses to the top threats: dazzling gleam from Miraidon and Flutter Mane, Fire moves from Koraidon, Ice moves from Bundle, and Fighting moves from iron hands. Scarf play rough is interesting and can hit both the dragons, but they typically tera or don't die in one hit, limiting its value.

Sun is everywhere in this meta, so unless you're using manual rain on Murkrow, palafin's utility is limited. I'm also unconvinced about Kingambit, but I'll try it out on a team perhaps and see for myself.

Overall, I think Actuarily's VR is pretty solid (I'd maybe move bundle up into t1 because it edges out the top 3 in speed).

Home pls come quick thx

Amoonguss loses viability without spore but he is still very good and to compensate for his weaknesses you can play an occa/yache berry as he doesn't really need an item, he remains extremely flexible

Meowscara forces the opposing tera which is already very appreciable as you said but especially the pokemon is fast without investment. With a scarf and 0 ev in speed, it is much faster than Iron Bundle which allows you to play it full atq and to give it a little extra bulk which allows you to tank a lot of moves if you get stuck on the right attack with protean

That's what's cool about Palafin and rain, you can block a lot of the meta with rain, you prevent protosynthesis from boosting and you reduce the damage of fire attacks so you can play amoonguss yache berry for example while boosting yourself

You won't be disappointed by Kingambit ^^
I think Iron Bundle is good where it is as hpump misses too often and you often have to play your games on a one miss/no miss bet

Piunicoulours · Feb 23, 2023

Hi there ... Piunicoulours here.
For my new post, I had considered presenting strategic sets for Miraidon, but something hit me (and no it's not a bus [deso pas deso 94260LC]).

A Monster :
For those who don't know who Miraidon is, let's just say he's a monster... But not the kind of monster that you drink and throw under the bed to scare the kids... It's more like the kind of monster that intimidates kids to steal their sandwiches and money (sorry Timy the bug catcher, your pokemon was underlevel for my Miraidon but thanks for the money).

So Miraidon is child moles ... a dragon, a big dragon with an almost perfect STAB.

Great STAB & Great Moves :
I mean the combot of electric and dragon S.T.A.B is only resisted by all the pokemons whose cartesian product starts from the set ground, plant and electric and the set fairy and steel what represents six double types (to which we add the dragon/fairy). So 7 duo of types for 24 pokemons (with Altaria-Mega and Shedinja). But in Doubles Uber for the moment we find none of these 24 pokemons except Iron Treads. Yes it has only one check to its double type. [1]

But this is just the beginning as a box legend pokemon, Miraidon has access to a small set of moves, but their effectiveness is matched only by the dictionary as a word register.

Look at this : "Drago Meteor" et "Electro God Damm Drift" for the primary S.T.A.B. The Dragon move is 130 bases powers attacks and the Electric move is a 100 bases powers but that can be multiplicated by 1.333 if the move is supereffectives. So yes begin a poker party with this is awsome, but we are double poker player and for us this just great.
But, he haves acces to Dazzling Gleam the powerfuller move in the actual meta because it's can hit both of the foes it's 80 bases power and because it's a Fairy move. He also haves acces to Parabolic Charge an Electic move with 65 bases power that can hit everyone but which gives him back 50 percent of the HP he takes.
This is a great hand, but he haves more to offer. He gets "Overheat", "Flashcannon" and "Power Gem" for the coverage and "Volt Switch" for the momentum. He even got "Snarl" this is not very powerfull but it can lower the special attack of the foes which is always great ...

He can also control the time of "Trick Room" and "Tailwind" with "Protect", stop other Pokemon from using those moves with "Taunt" . He can boost himself with "Calm Mind", protect the other with both of the "Screen" even if it's not usefull, he can use "Substitues" and even "Thunder Way". He is a little army of its own like the Suisse army I don't know if she had one.

Great Talent :
Normally arrives here I should showcase some calcs to expose in full light his beastly power, but I will just talk about his ability : Hadron Engine. You remeber Zacian's ability Intrepid Sword right ? This ability is for sure now the best. First, it's summons "Electric Terrain" which activates the talents of pokemons with Quark Drive in Duo this is a freaking great advantage, and it's also boost the electric attack by 1.333 and prevents the pokemon to fall asleep. And secondly cause yes that was just the first, that boost the special attack of Miraidon by 1.333.

If you hung up when I wrote "Radiateur" know that I did not write it. Let's go to the calc.

Offense and Defense :
Offense :
1) 252 SpA Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane in Electric Terrain: 225-265 (89.6 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
2) 252 SpA Hadron Engine Miraidon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Koraidon: 480-568 (140.7 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
3) 252 SpA Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift (133.3251953125 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dondozo in Electric Terrain: 366-432 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Defense :
1) 252 SpA Flutter Mane Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Miraidon: 240-284 (70.1 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
2) 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 294-346 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Now, let's get to the reason why I don't have a special set.
ID Card [2] :

As you can see on this ID card whose inspiration is obviously Smogon and Fall Out.
He is still played as Timid which is funny because I can imagine a dragon the size of a bear and the power of an H-bomb, being embarrassed in public and trying to swat away flies with a tiny hand movement.

Conclusion :
This pokemon is for me the best pokemon of this tier. And it's because he is really powerfull. I cann't imagine a powerfuller pokemon for the 10 gen. Maybe Cthullu ?

Too finish it in beauty as we write in my own language, I have some sets and some counter and ally for Miraidon, so I'll probably make a new pos soon. But, what I really want is to have a very detail set like you can see in the 1v1 set. For that, I'll ask a moderateur in the Arcade Room in order to do a 2v2-DUbers with tera and sash. Where the goal, is to think of the menace and the way to counter it. If some set can be played in DUbers, be sure that I will write them.
If you think this is a great idea, feel free to write your own 2v2-DUbers teams.

If my English is not good, I invite you to tell me and correct me.
If you want me to add things, don't hesitate to do so. Every little step can make this tier more playable.
Have a good one and thanks you for the view.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piunicoulours
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources :
[1] : https://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage
[2] : https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-01/moveset/gen9doublesubers-1630.txt

Piunicoulours · Mar 9, 2023

Hi there champs and bigs champs ... Piunicoulours here again.

First let me reassure you, I claimed and received my crown.
(And I will try to get the 1v1 one, I would be honored to fight against you lucario (not the real one)).
This post will be quite short I'm still on my 2v2 - Ubers project.

So without further ado, let's begin.

Dazzling Gleam :

Dazzling Gleam in the current meta (09/03/23) is like bringing a big rock into a fight against two birds. It's violent, it's bloody but it's ... legal (at least if you can prove that the birds attacked you first like in that bird movie the birds).
In this metaphor, the rock is Dazzling Gleam. It's a damage-dealing on the special with 80 Bases Power Fairy-type move, with no side effects exepted that it hits both opponents in Double Combat.

At this point, you may ask yourself a question: "Why does he say it's a big rock" and not "Why did I write "Radiateur""?
Because the trick is, the birds are really tiny. Still in this metaphor, the foes are the tiny bird (you get it now).

If we take into account the first VR of Les2BG (down), we can notice that for the 43 mons here, 16 mons are weak to this attack for only 8 mons that resist (This gives us 80% of mons that are weak or neutral) and for all those in row S are weak and in row A, there are only 3 resistances.

If now we take the first VR of Actuarily (down), we can notice that for the 44 mons here, 15 mons are weak to this attack for only 9 mons that resist (This gives us still 80% of mons that are weak or neutral) and for all the usable mons we have 40% of mons that are weak for 14% of mons that resists. This is insane.

If now we take last VR of Les2BG (down), we can notice that for the 42 mons here, 15 mons are weak to this attack for only 10 mons that resist (This gives us 76% of mons that are weak or neutral) and for the mon in rank S they all are weak or normal and in the rank S and A only 7 mons resists for 23 mons.

Protect :

When I first begin the tier, I wasn't aware of the utility of this move. Indeed, this is a perfect move to stall the turn of the Tailwind, Tricky Room, and the effect of the terrain like the Electric and Psychic one, and even the sun or the rain. It's also serve to by pass the fake-out which allows to keep the focus sash and to use Earthquake or Sludge Wave (one uses the move the other protect) without taking any damages.

Conclusion :
You can also see the evolution of the meta.
If you play the tier, please use Dazzling Gleam and Protect in your team.

In my next post (I'll no more have the tournament pressure), I'll post the speed tier and the 2v2 - Ubers Set Compendium.
Next time, it will be a good and a fat one.
If my English is not good, I invite you to tell me and correct me.
If you want me to add things, don't hesitate to do so. Every little step can make this tier more playable.
Have a good one and thanks you for the view.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piunicoulours
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piunicoulours · Mar 21, 2023

Hi there champs and bigs champs ... Piunicoulours here again.
The thread of today will be about the Speed Tiers. This article is based on the two VR presented above.

So without further ado, let's begin.

Speed	Pokemon	Sprite	Base Speed	Nature	Evs	Boost	Tailwind
700	Iron Moth		110	Spe+	252	+2 Aglilty	1400
612	Iron Bundle		136	Spe+	252	Quark Drive (Without 408)	1224
612	Flamigo		90	Spe+	252	Dondozo +2 (without 276)	1224
607	Flutter Mane		135	Spe+	252	Protosynthese (Without 405)	1214
607	Koraidon		135	Spe+	252	Scarf (Without 405)	1214
574	Dragapult		142	Neutre	252	Scarf (Without 383)	1148
568	Meowscarada		123	Spe+	252	Scarf (Without 379)	1136
556	Iron Bundle		136	Neutre	252	Scarf (Without 371)	1112
555	Roaring Moon		119	Spe+	252	Protosynthese (Without 370)	1110
553	Flutter Mane		135	Neutre	252	Scarf (Without 369)	1106
553	Chien Pao		135	Neutre	252	Scarf (Without 369)	1106
553	Koraidon		135	Neutre	252	Scarf (Without 369)	1106
552	Flamigo		90	Neutre	252	Dondozo +2 (without 276)	1104
546	Iron Valiant		116	Spe+	252	Quark Drive (Without 364)	1092
529	Maushold		111	Spe+	252	+1 with Tidy Up	1058
525	Iron Moth		110	Spe+	252	Quark Drive	1050
522	Walking Wake		109	Spe+	252	Protosynthesis (without 348)	1044
517	Meowscarada		123	Neutre	252	Scarf (Without 345)	1034
516	Houndstone		68	Spe+	252	Sand Rush +2	1032
513	Iron Treads		106	Spe+	252	Quark Drive (without342)	1026
505	Iron Leaves		104	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 337)	1010
499	Garchomp		102	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 333)	998
496	Iron Valiant		116	Neutre	252	Scarf (Without 331)	992
496	Sandy Shocks		101	Spe+	252	Protosynthesis (without 331)	992
492	Chi Yu		100	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 328)	984
492	Tauros-Paldea-Aqua		100	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 328)	984
492	Palafin		100	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 328)	984
475	Arcanine		95	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 317)	950
470	Houndstone		68	Neutre	252	Sand Rush +2	940
460	Iron Leaves		104	Neutre	252	Scarf (without 307)	920
459	Annihilape		90	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 306)	918
448	Chi Yu		100	Neutre	252	Scarf (without 299)	896
448	Tauros-Paldea-Aqua		100	Neutre	252	Scarf (without 299)	896
448	Palafin		100	Neutre	252	Scarf (without 299)	896
433	Tatsugiri		82	Spe+	252	Scarf (without 289)	866
421	Dragapult		142	Spe+	252		842
408	Iron Bundle		136	Spe+	252		816
405	Flutter Mane		135	Spe+	252		810
405	Miraidon		135	Spe+	252		810
405	Koraidon		135	Spe+	252		810
405	Chien Pao		135	Spe+	252		810
400	Iron Thorns		72	Spe+	252	Dragon Dance +1	800
386	Talonflame		126	Spe+	252		772
383	Kilowattrel		125	Spe+	252		766
379	Meowscarada		123	Spe+	252		758
370	Roaring Moon		119	Spe+	252		740
370	Dondozo		31	Spe+	252	+2 Dondozo + Tatshi	740
369	Chien Pao		135	Neutre	252		738
369	Koraidon		135	Neutre	252		738
369	Flutter Mane		135	Neutre	252		738
364	Iron Valiant		116	Spe+	252		728
364	Tyranitar		61	Spe+	252	Dragon Dance +1	728
353	Maushold		111	Spe+	252		706
353	Scream Tail		111	Spe+	252		706
351	Talonflame		126	Neutre	252		702
350	Iron Moth		110	Spe+	252		700
349	Kilowattrel		125	Neutre	252		698
348	Walking Wake		109	Spe+	252		696
345	Meowscarada		123	Neutre	252		690
342	Iron Treads		106	Spe+	252		684
339	Pawmot		105	Spe+	252		678
338	Dondozo		31	Neutre	252	+2 Dondozo + Tatshi	676
337	Roaring Moon		119	Neutre	252		674
337	Iron Leaves		104	Spe+	252		674
333	Garchomp		102	Spe+	252		666
331	Sandy Shocks		101	Spe+	252		662
331	Tyranitar		61	Neutre	252	Dragon Dance +1	662
328	Chi Yu		100	Spe+	252		656
328	Tauros-Paldea-Aqua		100	Spe+	252		656
328	Palafin		100	Spe+	252		656
320	Mimikyu		96	Spe+	252		640
317	Walking Wake		109	Neutre	252		634
317	Arcanine		95	Spe+	252		634
317	Pachirisu		95	Spe+	252		634
315	Tinkaton		94	Spe+	252		630
311	Iron Treads		106	Neutre	252		622
309	Pawmot		105	Neutre	252		618
307	Iron Leaves		104	Neutre	252		614
306	Annihilape		90	Spe+	252		612
306	Flamigo		90	Spe+	252		612
300	Great Tusk		87	Spe+	252		600
299	Chi Yu		100	Neutre	252		598
299	Tauros-Paldea-Aqua		100	Neutre	252		598
299	Palafin		100	Neutre	252		598
291	Mimikyu		96	Neutre	252		582
289	Arcanine		95	Neutre	252		578
289	Pachirisu		95	Neutre	252		578
289	Tatsugiri		82	Spe+	252		578
288	Talonflame		126	Neutre	0		576
287	Tinkaton		94	Neutre	252		574
286	Kilowattrel		125	Neutre	0		572
281	Iron Moth		110	Neutre	0		562
279	Walking Wake		109	Neutre	0		558
276	Annihilape		90	Neutre	252		552
276	Flamigo		90	Neutre	252		552
274	Roaring Moon		119	Neutre	0		548
273	Great Tusk		87	Neutre	252		546
267	Iron Thorns		72	Spe+	252		534
258	Maushold		111	Neutre	0		516
258	Scream Tail		111	Neutre	0		516
258	Houndstone		68	Spe+	252		516
248	Iron Treads		106	Neutre	0		496
246	Roaring Moon		119	Spe-	0		492
246	Pawmot		105	Neutre	0		492
244	Iron Leaves		104	Neutre	0		488
243	Tyranitar		61	Spe+	252		486
240	Garchomp		102	Neutre	0		480
238	Sandy Shocks		101	Neutre	0		476
236	Chi Yu		100	Neutre	0		472
236	Tauros-Paldea-Aqua		100	Neutre	0		472
236	Palafin		100	Neutre	0		472
235	Houndstone		68	Neutre	252		470
232	Maushold		111	Spe-	0		464
232	Scream Tail		111	Spe-	0		464
230	Iron Moth		110	Spe-	0		460
228	Walking Wake		109	Spe-	0		456
228	Mimikyu		96	Neutre	0		456
226	Arcanine		95	Neutre	0		452
226	Indeedee		95	Neutre	0		452
226	Pachirisu		95	Neutre	0		452
224	Tinkaton		94	Neutre	0		448
223	Iron Treads		106	Spe-	0		446
221	Pawmot		105	Spe-	0		442
221	Tyranitar		61	Neutre	0		442
219	Iron Leaves		104	Spe-	0		438
218	Murkrow		91	Neutre	0		436
218	Iron Hands		50	Spe+	252		436
216	Garchomp		102	Spe-	0		432
216	Annihilape		90	Neutre	0		432
214	Sandy Shocks		101	Spe-	0		428
212	Chi Yu		100	Neutre	0		424
212	Tauros-Paldea-Aqua		100	Neutre	0		424
212	Palafin		100	Neutre	0		424
210	Great Tusk		87	Neutre	0		420
208	Glimmora		86	Neutre	0		416
206	Indeedee-F		85	Neutre	0		412
205	Mimikyu		96	Spe-	0		410
203	Arcanine		95	Spe-	0		406
203	Indeedee		95	Spe-	0		406
203	Pachirisu		95	Spe-	0		406
201	Tinkaton		94	Spe-	0		402
200	Tatsugiri		82	Neutre	0		400
199	Iron Hands		50	Neutre	252		398
196	Murkrow		91	Spe-	0		392
196	Dragonite		80	Neutre	0		392
194	Annihilape		90	Spe-	0		388
189	Great Tusk		87	Spe-	0		378
187	Glimmora		86	Spe-	0		374
186	Armarouge		75	Neutre	0		372
186	Toxtricity		75	Neutre	0		372
186	Florges		75	Neutre	0		372
185	Indeedee-F		85	Spe-	0		370
185	Dondozo		31	Spe+	252		370
180	Tatsugiri		82	Spe-	0		360
180	Iron Thorns		72	Neutre	0		360
172	Houndstone		68	Neutre	0		344
169	Dondozo		31	Neutre	252		338
168	Skeledirge		66	Neutre	0		336
167	Armarouge		75	Spe-	0		334
167	Toxtricity		75	Spe-	0		334
167	Florges		75	Spe-	0		334
166	Pelipper		65	Neutre	0		332
166	Gothitelle		65	Neutre	0		332
162	Iron Thorns		72	Spe-	0		324
158	Tyranitar		61	Neutre	0		316
156	Grimmsnarl		60	Neutre	0		312
156	Sylveon		60	Neutre	0		312
156	Farigiraf		60	Neutre	0		312
156	Oranguru		60	Neutre	0		312
154	Houndstone		68	Spe-	0		308
151	Skeledirge		68	Spe-	0		302
149	Pelipper		65	Spe-	0		298
149	Gothitelle		65	Spe-	0		298
146	Brute Bonnet		55	Neutre	0		292
142	Tyranitar		61	Spe-	0		284
140	Grimmsnarl		60	Spe-	0		280
140	Sylveon		60	Spe-	0		280
140	Farigiraf		60	Spe-	0		280
140	Oranguru		60	Spe-	0		280
136	Iron Hands		50	Neutre	0		272
136	Kingambit		50	Neutre	0		272
136	Azumarill		50	Neutre	0		272
131	Brute Bonnet		55	Spe-	0		262
126	Ting-Lu		45	Neutre	0		252
124	Dragalge		44	Neutre	0		248
122	Iron Hands		50	Spe-	0		244
122	Kingambit		50	Spe-	0		244
122	Azumarill		50	Spe-	0		244
113	Ting-Lu		45	Spe-	0		226
111	Dragalge		44	Spe-	0		222
106	Dondozo		31	Neutre	0		212
96	Amoonguss		30	Neutre	0		192
95	Dondozo		31	Spe-	0		190
94	Hatterene		29	Neutre	0		188
86	Amoonguss		30	Spe-	0		172
84	Hatterene		29	Spe-	0		168
76	Torkoal		20	Neutre	0		152
76	Clodsire		20	Neutre	0		152
68	Torkoal		20	Spe-	0		136
68	Clodsire		20	Spe-	0		136

It's my first time that I do something that big, if you have pieces of advices, like how to post the sprite or where can I find it, like how to do the benchmark stuff. I gonna also, in the next few day post some analyse about Walking Wake and Iron Leaves.

If my English is not good, I invite you to tell me and correct me.
If you want me to add things, don't hesitate to do so. Every little step can make this tier more playable.
Have a good one and thanks you for the view.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piunicoulours

AIRedzone · Mar 21, 2023

Piunicoulours said:
Hi there champs and bigs champs ... Piunicoulours here again.
The thread of today will be about the Speed Tiers. This article is based on the two VR presented above.

So without further ado, let's begin.

Speed Pokemon Base Speed Nature Evs Boost Tailwind
700
Iron Moth
110
Spe+
252
+2 Aglilty
1400
612
Iron Bundle
136
Spe+
252
Quark Drive (Without 408)
1224
612
Flamigo
90
Spe+
252
Dondozo +2 (without 276)
1224
607
Flutter Mane
135
Spe+
252
Protosynthese (Without 405)
1214
607
Koraidon
135
Spe+
252
Scarf (Without 405)
1214
574
Dragapult
142
Neutre
252
Scarf (Without 383)
1148
568
Meowscarada
123
Spe+
252
Scarf (Without 379)
1136
556
Iron Bundle
136
Neutre
252
Scarf (Without 371)
1112
555
Roaring Moon
119
Spe+
252
Protosynthese (Without 370)
1110
553
Flutter Mane
135
Neutre
252
Scarf (Without 369)
1106
553
Chien Pao
135
Neutre
252
Scarf (Without 369)
1106
553
Koraidon
135
Neutre
252
Scarf (Without 369)
1106
552
Flamigo
90
Neutre
252
Dondozo +2 (without 276)
1104
546
Iron Valiant
116
Spe+
252
Quark Drive (Without 364)
1092
529
Maushold
111
Spe+
252
+1 with Tidy Up
1058
525
Iron Moth
110
Spe+
252
Quark Drive
1050
522
Walking Wake
109
Spe+
252
Protosynthesis (without 348)
1044
517
Meowscarada
123
Neutre
252
Scarf (Without 345)
1034
516
Houndstone
68
Spe+
252
Sand Rush +2
1032
513
Iron Treads
106
Spe+
252
Quark Drive (without342)
1026
505
Iron Leaves
104
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 337)
1010
499
Garchomp
102
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 333)
998
496
Iron Valiant
116
Neutre
252
Scarf (Without 331)
992
496
Sandy Shocks
101
Spe+
252
Protosynthesis (without 331)
992
492
Chi Yu
100
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 328)
984
492
Tauros Eau
100
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 328)
984
492
Palapin
100
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 328)
984
475
Arcanine
95
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 317)
950
470
Houndstone
68
Neutre
252
Sand Rush +2
940
460
Iron Leaves
104
Neutre
252
Scarf (without 307)
920
459
Annihilape
90
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 306)
918
448
Chi Yu
100
Neutre
252
Scarf (without 299)
896
448
Tauros Eau
100
Neutre
252
Scarf (without 299)
896
448
Palapin
100
Neutre
252
Scarf (without 299)
896
433
Tatsugiri
82
Spe+
252
Scarf (without 289)
866
421
Dragapult
142
Spe+
252
842
408
Iron Bundle
136
Spe+
252
816
405
Flutter Mane
135
Spe+
252
810
405
Miraidon
135
Spe+
252
810
405
Koraidon
135
Spe+
252
810
405
Chien Pao
135
Spe+
252
810
400
Iron Thorns
72
Spe+
252
Dragon Dance +1
800
386
Talonflame
126
Spe+
252
772
383
Kilowattrel
125
Spe+
252
766
379
Meowscarada
123
Spe+
252
758
370
Roaring Moon
119
Spe+
252
740
369
Chien Pao
135
Neutre
252
738
369
Koraidon
135
Neutre
252
738
369
Flutter Mane
135
Neutre
252
738
364
Iron Valiant
116
Spe+
252
728
364
Tyranitar
61
Spe+
252
Dragon Dance +1
728
353
Maushold
111
Spe+
252
706
353
Scream Tail
111
Spe+
252
706
351
Talonflame
126
Neutre
252
702
350
Iron Moth
110
Spe+
252
700
349
Kilowattrel
125
Neutre
252
698
348
Walking Wake
109
Spe+
252
696
345
Meowscarada
123
Neutre
252
690
342
Iron Treads
106
Spe+
252
684
339
Pawmot
105
Spe+
252
678
338
Dondozo
31
Neutre
252
+2 Dondozo + Tatshi
676
337
Roaring Moon
119
Neutre
252
674
337
Iron Leaves
104
Spe+
252
674
333
Garchomp
102
Spe+
252
666
331
Sandy Shocks
101
Spe+
252
662
331
Tyranitar
61
Neutre
252
Dragon Dance +1
662
328
Chi Yu
100
Spe+
252
656
328
Tauros Eau
100
Spe+
252
656
328
Palapin
100
Spe+
252
656
320
Mimikyu
96
Spe+
0
640
317
Walking Wake
109
Neutre
252
634
317
Arcanine
95
Spe+
252
634
317
Pachirisu
95
Spe+
252
634
315
Tinkaton
94
Spe+
252
630
311
Iron Treads
106
Neutre
252
622
309
Pawmot
105
Neutre
252
618
307
Iron Leaves
104
Neutre
252
614
306
Annihilape
90
Spe+
252
612
306
Flamigo
90
Spe+
252
612
300
Great Tusk
87
Spe+
252
600
299
Chi Yu
100
Neutre
252
598
299
Tauros Eau
100
Neutre
252
598
299
Palapin
100
Neutre
252
598
291
Mimikyu
96
Neutre
252
582
289
Arcanine
95
Neutre
252
578
289
Pachirisu
95
Neutre
252
578
289
Tatsugiri
82
Spe+
252
578
288
Talonflame
126
Neutre
0
576
287
Tinkaton
94
Neutre
252
574
286
Kilowattrel
125
Neutre
0
572
281
Iron Moth
110
Neutre
0
562
279
Walking Wake
109
Neutre
0
558
276
Annihilape
90
Neutre
252
552
276
Flamigo
90
Neutre
252
552
274
Roaring Moon
119
Neutre
0
548
273
Great Tusk
87
Neutre
252
546
267
Iron Thorns
72
Spe+
252
534
258
Maushold
111
Neutre
0
516
258
Scream Tail
111
Neutre
0
516
258
Houndstone
68
Spe+
252
516
248
Iron Treads
106
Neutre
0
496
246
Roaring Moon
119
Spe-
0
492
246
Pawmot
105
Neutre
0
492
244
Iron Leaves
104
Neutre
0
488
244
Dondozo
31
Spe+
252
+2 Dondozo + Tatshi
488
243
Tyranitar
61
Spe+
252
486
240
Garchomp
102
Neutre
0
480
238
Sandy Shocks
101
Neutre
0
476
236
Chi Yu
100
Neutre
0
472
236
Tauros Eau
100
Neutre
0
472
236
Palapin
100
Neutre
0
472
235
Houndstone
68
Neutre
252
470
232
Maushold
111
Spe-
0
464
232
Scream Tail
111
Spe-
0
464
230
Iron Moth
110
Spe-
0
460
228
Walking Wake
109
Spe-
0
456
228
Mimikyu
96
Neutre
0
456
226
Arcanine
95
Neutre
0
452
226
Indeedee
95
Neutre
0
452
226
Pachirisu
95
Neutre
0
452
224
Tinkaton
94
Neutre
0
448
223
Iron Treads
106
Spe-
0
446
221
Pawmot
105
Spe-
0
442
221
Tyranitar
61
Neutre
0
442
219
Iron Leaves
104
Spe-
0
438
218
Murkrow
91
Neutre
0
436
218
Iron Hands
50
Spe+
252
436
216
Garchomp
102
Spe-
0
432
216
Annihilape
90
Neutre
0
432
214
Sandy Shocks
101
Spe-
0
428
212
Chi Yu
100
Neutre
0
424
212
Tauros Eau
100
Neutre
0
424
212
Palapin
100
Neutre
0
424
210
Great Tusk
87
Neutre
0
420
208
Glimmora
86
Neutre
0
416
206
Indeedee-F
85
Neutre
0
412
205
Mimikyu
96
Spe-
0
410
203
Arcanine
95
Spe-
0
406
203
Indeedee
95
Spe-
0
406
203
Pachirisu
95
Spe-
0
406
201
Tinkaton
94
Spe-
0
402
200
Tatsugiri
82
Neutre
0
400
199
Iron Hands
50
Neutre
252
398
196
Murkrow
91
Spe-
0
392
196
Dragonite
80
Neutre
0
392
194
Annihilape
90
Spe-
0
388
189
Great Tusk
87
Spe-
0
378
187
Glimmora
86
Spe-
0
374
186
Armarouge
75
Neutre
0
372
186
Toxtricity
75
Neutre
0
372
186
Florges
75
Neutre
0
372
185
Indeedee-F
85
Spe-
0
370
185
Dondozo
31
Spe+
252
370
180
Tatsugiri
82
Spe-
0
360
180
Iron Thorns
72
Neutre
0
360
172
Houndstone
68
Neutre
0
344
169
Dondozo
31
Neutre
252
338
168
Skeledirge
66
Neutre
0
336
167
Armarouge
75
Spe-
0
334
167
Toxtricity
75
Spe-
0
334
167
Florges
75
Spe-
0
334
166
Pelipper
65
Neutre
0
332
166
Gothitelle
65
Neutre
0
332
162
Iron Thorns
72
Spe-
0
324
158
Tyranitar
61
Neutre
0
316
156
Grimmsnarl
60
Neutre
0
312
156
Sylveon
60
Neutre
0
312
156
Farigiraf
60
Neutre
0
312
156
Oranguru
60
Neutre
0
312
154
Houndstone
68
Spe-
0
308
151
Skeledirge
68
Spe-
0
302
149
Pelipper
65
Spe-
0
298
149
Gothitelle
65
Spe-
0
298
146
Brute Bonnet
55
Neutre
0
292
142
Tyranitar
61
Spe-
0
284
140
Grimmsnarl
60
Spe-
0
280
140
Sylveon
60
Spe-
0
280
140
Farigiraf
60
Spe-
0
280
140
Oranguru
60
Spe-
0
280
136
Iron Hands
50
Neutre
0
272
136
Kingambit
50
Neutre
0
272
136
Azumaril
50
Neutre
0
272
131
Brute Bonnet
55
Spe-
0
262
126
Ting-Lu
45
Neutre
0
252
124
Dragalge
44
Neutre
0
248
122
Iron Hands
50
Spe-
0
244
122
Kingambit
50
Spe-
0
244
122
Azumaril
50
Spe-
0
244
113
Ting-Lu
45
Spe-
0
226
111
Dragalge
44
Spe-
0
222
106
Dondozo
31
Neutre
0
212
96
Amoonguss
30
Neutre
0
192
95
Dondozo
31
Spe-
0
190
94
Hatterene
29
Neutre
0
188
86
Amoonguss
30
Spe-
0
172
84
Hatterene
29
Spe-
0
168
76
Torkoal
20
Neutre
0
152
76
Clodsire
20
Neutre
0
152
68
Torkoal
20
Spe-
0
136
68
Clodsire
20
Spe-
0
136

It's my first time that I do something that big, if you have pieces of advices, like how to post the sprite or where can I find it, like how to do the benchmark stuff. I gonna also, in the next few day post some analyse about Walking Wake and Iron Leaves.

If my English is not good, I invite you to tell me and correct me.
If you want me to add things, don't hesitate to do so. Every little step can make this tier more playable.
Have a good one and thanks you for the view.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piunicoulours

Thanks for the post, this is an amazing resource! I wanted to point out that Mimikyu is listed at 0 speed EVs instead of 252 to hit a speed stat of 320. Apart from that, everything looks great. Thanks for all the effort you put into this!

tyo · May 31, 2023

Pokemon HOME just came out and like everyone else, I instantly turned to ladder to try out all the new stuff available. It's still only day 1 but I created a fresh account and hit rank 1 with a 62-3 record so here is the team!

Every doubles format with ubers available, the combination of Kyogre and Tornadus always is top tier so the first thing I wanted to test was that. I felt like choice scarf was the best item since moving before your opponents is super important in the early stages of any format. The reason I chose Rayquaza instead of Arceus as the extreme speed spammer is the ability Air Lock. It makes the sun matchups way easier as you can stop protosynthesis boosts from the likes of Flutter Mane and allow Kyogre to move first, not to mention water spout without any weather condition does a huge chunk of damage to most pokemon. I chose to put tera dark on Calyrex-Shadow instead of tera normal so that it takes less damage from sucker punch and I chose to put covert cloak on tornadus so that i can reliably set up tailwind.

Feel free to give the team a try and if you have any questions, let me know on discord!

MarlonMace · May 31, 2023

https://pokepast.es/26d1b271bdfefcd6

It's a bit out there, but I made it work. Cheem-pao and Chi-yu have servicable sp. atk and atk respectivly, and paired with obamasnow and torkoal they can do an ok job

DaWoblefet · Jul 14, 2023

>> Pokemon Home VR updates! <<

About a month and a half has passed since Pokemon Home shook up the new tier, dropping a variety of new Pokemon at the traditional DUber power level. This metagame is far from settled, but with the help of Lord Death Man, Yuichi, Smudge, zee, DaAwesomeDude1, and laptops, new viability rankings exist to help you get an idea of the strength level of various Pokemon in the tier. You can see the full updated VR in the first post of this thread. Feel free to make your own nominations in this thread!

>>Tier 1<<

Arceus - Arceus's raw 720 BST and wide movepool give it extreme versatility. The standard "Ekiller" Swords Dance ExtremeSpeed set offers a powerful tool against any team, bypassing major forms of Speed control and hitting the majority of the tier for 2HKOs, as well as some OHKOs. Arceus can be combined with Chien-Pao and Tera Normal to push its ExtremeSpeed damage to ridiculous levels; for example, after a Swords Dance, 252 HP Groudon faints to that combination. In addition to natural STAB ExtremeSpeed, Arceus's Normal-type gives it an important immunity to Calyrex-Shadow's spread Astral Barrage. Its wide movepool gives it a myriad of setup options including Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Cosmic Power, and Recover. It also can effectively run many support moves, including Trick Room, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and Tailwind.
Calyrex-Shadow - Calyrex-Shadow was already a great Pokemon last generation, but Terastallization gives it a huge buff compared to just about any other DUber. Calyrex's high-damage spread Astral Barrage is now complimented with a potent coverage option in Tera Blast, something it was previously lacking. Calyrex commonly Terastallizes to a Fighting-type to resist Dark-type attacks and have a strong attack to hit Arceus, but Normal-type also sees play to become immune to Astral Barrage in the mirror, and Ghost can push an Astral Barrage sweep even further. Although it lost Expanding Force, it still has powerful support options in Imprison Trick Room or fast Will-o-Wisp, and can use Psyshock to hit Assault Vest Pokemon trying to tank Astral Barrage.
Kyogre - Kyogre is relatively unchanged from previous generations - Water Spout is a 150 BP spread move boosted by Rain, and that will never not be good. It excels both as a Choice Scarf user and with a boosting item on Tailwind offense teams.

>>Tier 2<<

Koraidon - Koraidon matches up fairly well into tier 1. Orichalcum Pulse limits Kyogre severely by setting up Sun, and thanks to Orichalcum Pulse boosting attack in Sun by ~1.3333x, very little investment is required for Koraidon to pick up a clean OHKO on even 252 HP Normal-type Arceus with Collision Course, its signature move that gains an extra 1.3333x damage multiplier when the attack is super effective. By using an Assault Vest, it can avoid a 3HKO from Calyrex-Shadow's Astral Barrage fairly easily. AV Koraidon has plenty of moves to pick from, including Breaking Swipe, Flare Blitz, Flame Charge, U-turn, and Dragon Claw. Collision Course is typically preferred to Close Combat, since the power difference is low and defense drops suck, but it can be used for extra breaking power vs targets that Close Combat is not super effective against (e.g. neutral Arceus forms). Quad weakness to Fairy sucks since you usually want to commit your Terastallization elsewhere, and Koraidon can also be exploited by switching in the opposing Kyogre to turn off its attack boost.
Magearna - Soul-Heart is still one of the best Abilities ever created, giving Magearna a boost any time a Pokemon anywhere on the field faints. Unlike last generation where Magearna had to deal with extreme role competition in Zacian and a lack of good alternate Trick Room setters, both downsides are less relevant now. Many viable alternate Trick Room setters exist, including Arceus, Lunar Blessing Cresselia, and a new Dialga, and old mainstay Calyrex-Ice is still present too. Underestimate the snowball potential of Magearna at your peril - it's not likely to OHKO anything immediately, but with a partner pressuring heavy damage and passively gaining Sp. Atk boosts, an unchecked Magearna will wreck you. At the same time, Soul-Heart counterplay has been more thoroughly developed as the years went on - understanding board states vs Magearna, such as when is appropriate to take a knockout, is vital counterplay that is relatively unchanged from last generation.
Miraidon - Occasionally presented as "more broken than old Zacian-Crowned or Mega Rayquaza", Miraidon doesn't quite live up to the hype, but is still extremely solid. Unlike Koraidon, Miraidon's Hadron Engine activates Electric Terrain, which stacks its Sp. Atk boost on top of the Electric Terrain base power boost. If Electro Drift is super effective, that mon is dead - even max HP / max Sp. Def Assault Vest Kyogre will fall to a Life Orb Electro Drift. Of course, Electro Drift will not always be super effective, so you'll have to settle for around 75% damage on say, max HP Arceus. Electric Terrain also tends to be more useful than the sun Koraidon provides, giving Iron Bundle a free Quark Drive boost and providing Spore immunity for allies. Volt Switch can be used for momentum, and Draco Meteor chunks would-be checks like AV Groudon for ridiculous amounts of damage. It's worth noting that Miraidon is not often getting raw OHKOs - it's normally chunking Pokemon for 80+%. Don't get me wrong, that's really good, but it means it's often susceptible to damage trades, where you survive the hit and do something impactful back. That's why Choice Scarf is also viably used, to still get 2HKOs while gaining an advantage in Speed over Pokemon like Zacian. I personally think Miraidon is likely to rise to tier 1 status, but time will tell.
Tornadus - Prankster Tailwind was really good last generation, but it's even better in this generation thanks to Covert Cloak and Bleakwind Storm. Thanks to Covert Cloak, Fake Out isn't a great way to stop Tailwind. If you're not worried about Fake Out, classic items like Focus Sash or Mental Herb will also serve you well. Bleakwind Storm is a spread move that can potentially lower Speed, giving Tornadus something very meaningful to do beside Kyogre in Tailwind. Icy Wind and Taunt are still useful support moves too. Tailwind offense is always great in high power level formats, and Tornadus is far and away the best Tailwind setter.
Zacian-Crowned - Zacian's nerf turns it from a tier-defining, use it on every team staple to a really good Pokemon that has a bit more counterplay. Unlike last generation where Zacian had more flexibility in its move choices and EVs, in this generation it pretty much always wants Jolly nature with Behemoth Blade, Play Rough, and Close Combat. It's much harder to get away with Adamant with how important outspeeding the bike legendaries to OHKO with Play Rough is. Close Combat gives you a way to pressure a knockout on Arceus, whose ExtremeSpeed Zacian importantly resists. Overall, it's much easier to predict Zacian's set, and its inherent value of being a check to Dynamaxed Pokemon has made its overall value decrease, but it's nevertheless very solid.

>>Tier 3<<

Arceus-Ground - Arceus-Ground's advantage over Ekiller is initial STAB Earthquake. All the Pokemon we've looked at so far, except Tornadus, don't resist Ground-type moves. After a Dragon Dance, Arceus-Ground threatens KOs on many of tier 1/2. One downside with all alternate Arceus forms is that their typing is now revealed at Team Preview, which removes the surprise value it had in past generations. As stated, there aren't many Flying-immunes in DUbers right now, which also means there's not a ton of partners to EQ by - you may have to spend Terastallization on a Flying-type Tera to facilitate Earthquake.
Amoonguss - Even with Miraidon, Spore, Rage Powder, and Pollen Puff are still good moves. It doesn't appreciate that Arceus can bypass its Rage Powder with Extreme Speed (assuming Trick Room's not up), as well as the generally higher power of the tier, but it still serves as both an effective way to get up Trick Room as well as an effective check to opposing Trick Room.
Calyrex-Ice - Glacial Lance now has 2 new Dragon-type Pokemon to snag OHKOs on, and Terastallization gives Calyrex a way to get rid of its awful typing or push Glacial Lance even further with Tera Ice. Like usual, it is heavily dependent on Trick Room, and also comes at the opportunity cost of not running the extremely busted Calyrex-Shadow.
Chien-Pao primarily serves the purpose of powering up already great physical attackers, but it also serves as a soft check to many valuable Pokemon. Sucker Punch forces Calyrex to not click Astral Barrage or else Terastallize, Ice Spinner does heavy damage to the bike legendaries (although it shares the same 135 Speed stat with them), and Taunt prevents status moves, which tends to be more valuable than the comparably weak Sacred Sword.
Groudon - Groudon's Precipice Blades continue to be solid offensively, hitting the majority of the tier for at least neutral damage. It suffers from competition with Koraidon, though, and although it does technically trade into Miraidon, I wouldn't call it a favorable trade. Still, an Electric immunity is valuable, and forcing Miraidon to take a -2 Sp. Atk drop can neuter it for allies to help.
Indeedee-Female - Indeedee's traits give it plenty to consider over Amoonguss as a redirection role, with an important immunity to Astral Barrage and Psychic Surge, stopping Ekiller's main form of damage output (and sometimes both if it runs Shadow Claw), and neutering Miraidon. It can even use Trick Room now. Unlike Amoonguss's Spore, though, it has almost no offensive pressure whatsoever. You wall Arceus, sure, but you better have a good way of actually knocking it out, or else it'll just set up a free Swords Dance and switch in its ally Miraidon whenever it's ready to attack.
Rayquaza - Rayquaza offers a number of attributes that other Pokemon lack - it can immediately turn off both sun and rain, including Protosynthesis boosts, and offers a Ground resist in a format desperate for one. Still, it has significant hurdles - it no longer has access to V-create, it doesn't like the bike legendaries' ability to outspeed and OHKO it, and Flying STAB is not as spammable as in previous generations. It does have access to Stealth Rock and U-turn in this generation, but it faces pretty severe competition as a physical attacker with Arceus.
Ting-Lu - Ting-Lu works well as a hard stop to Calyrex-Shadow, taking almost nothing from Astral Barrage and laughing at Tera Blast. It also serves as an soft check to Miraidon, being one of the Ground-types actually able to tank 2 Draco Meteors from Life Orb Miraidon, though it doesn't threaten a KO in return with Stomping Tantrum. It's going to typically be used to set hazards, halve Pokemon's HP with Ruination, and check special attackers the best it can otherwise.
Zamazenta-Crowned - Zamazenta importantly lost Coaching between generations, though it did gain a much more reliable STAB in Body Press. Zamazenta still has excellent utility with Wide Guard and Snarl to slow down special attackers, and its passiveness last generation is somewhat mitigated by Body Press's more immediate damage. Last options include Howl to copium about Coaching being gone, as well as Iron Defense to boost Body Press's damage.

>>Tier 4<<

Arceus-Dark - checks Calyrex-Shadow immediately. Going to be used more as a support role with possibly Trick Room or Will-o-Wisp. Struggles with offensive pressure on the board.
Arceus-Ghost - Ekiller that starts off as default Ghost. Pretty mid if you ask me.
Arceus-Water - Another support Arceus for getting off important status conditions, with a solid starting Water-type, which only Miraidon really exploits. A Kyogre with Recover is not always easy to beat.
Chi-Yu - Chi-Yu powers up the special attackers like Calyrex-Shadow or Miraidon even more. It struggles solo vs the much faster tier and with Kyogre, with Choice Scarf and Focus Sash both having their own problems.
Cresselia - Difficult to KO without Calyrex-Shadow, and Lunar Blessing can keep sweepers healthy to prepare for a second Trick Room. Ally Switch buys sweepers occasional free turns.
Dialga-Origin - Bulkier Dialga. A sort of midground between a Trick Room setter that's hard to quickly KO while also having solid damage output in TR.
Dondozo + Tatsugiri - Although Dondozo despises Miraidon, +2 omniboost Unaware can still trade effectively with many powerful Pokemon; standard SD Ekiller, for example, does only 15% with Extreme Speed. Much harder to commit two slots to the combo since Tatsugiri is extremely useless in most matchups.
Eternatus - Cosmic Power + Recover + Terastallizing out of the Dragon weakness can allow Eternatus to wall whole teams, with the right counterplay available to its faster checks. Very passive, but high reward if setup is possible.
Flutter Mane - Protosynthesis gives Flutter Mane a free Choice Scarf in a tier with bike legendaries to Moonblast and a natural immunity to Extreme Speed. Struggles to keep up with the power level.
Grimmsnarl - Screens are good. Prankster Parting Shot is good. It's pretty difficult to KO Grimmsnarl in a single blow with Zacian less ubiquitous.
Iron Bundle - Free Quark Drive with Miraidon frees up Focus Sash, a requirement to tank the massive special attacks being thrown around. Fast Icy Wind serves as an alternate form of Speed control to Tailwind, and Freeze-Dry + Hydro Pump hits most of the tier for reasonable damage. Outspeeds a Kyogre in Tailwind if Quark Drive is active.
Iron Hands - Best Fake Out Pokemon available for Trick Room, and gets a free 1.3x Attack boost if Miraidon was on the board. Bulk is not as impressive by DUbers standards, but can still get the job done.
Kingambit -Threatens Calyrex-Shadow with Sucker Punch while being a sturdier switch-in than Urshifu or Chien-Pao.
Palkia - Kyogre resist that isn't committed to a particular item. Works better in Trick Room.
Palkia-Origin - Kyogre resist that works better out of Trick Room. Has a lot of competition with other, faster Dragons.
Regieleki - Benefits from Miraidon's Electric Terrain and functions like a more offensive Iron Bundle.
Urshifu-Single-Strike - More offensive than Kingambit, and has Close Combat to smack Arceus for more damage. Unblockable contact moves courtesy of Unseen Fist are never going to be bad.
Ursaluna - Amoonguss-proof Trick Room sweeper. Takes advantage of Ground weaknesses, immune to Calyrex, but requires a lot of setup to be most effective in Trick Room.

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