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Doubles UU

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I would like to nominate Crawdaunt for tier 2

Pros:

- Hits like a truck
- Adaptability
- Adaptability with strong water attacks to wreck the fire types
- Can OHKO or 2HKO really any current 1 or 1.5 tier Pokemon except for Mega Altaria, Mega and Non-mega Blastoise and Mega Latias, does that not mean anything
- Aqua Jet for revenge killing and priority
- Knock Off because wynaut (overused pun intended)
- Crabhammer for a powerful attack
- Can have Dragon Dance or Swords Dance to boost above attacks further


Cons:

- Frail, can't switch in easily
- Frail, needs support to set up Dragon or Swords Dance
- Other than Superpower, not the most versatile moveset
- Awkward base 55 speed: won't be outspeeding anything but also won't be outslowing most Trick Room Pokemon either
 
Thoughts on the discussion mons:

Tangrowth to Tier 3 / Unranked - Agree. I've built a fair number of teams and not once has Tangrowth my best option, it's just awkwardly in the middle, as aberdeen said. I can understand how it has a niche though, so I'm hesitant to say unranked. Tier 3 imo.

Mega Aero to Tier 1 / 1.5 - Definitely. Super strong, super fast, great support movepool if you need it, but really it just *hurts*. Unfortunately it doesn't really fit the Tier 1 description of no opportunity cost and fitting on every team, so I'm leaning towards Tier 1.5 but Tier 2 is definitely too low.

Braviary to Tier 2 - Disagree. Defiant is pretty nice and on paper it seems to be decent but in practice I've found it underwhelming. An awkward speed tier with no priority moves holds it back, as well as its lackluster bulk. Those things also combine to mean it is outsped and OHKO'd by most electric types in the tier anyway, so its niche over Tornadus is rather small. Keep it in Tier 3.
 
could you give some actual reasoning to your decision? i mean, correct me if im wrong, but you dont play the tier, yeah? i mean, if the tier leader (xzern) and a good chunk of the people who play duu want camel to atleast be suspected, then whats stopping you? even if you dont personally think its broken, so what? plenty of people didnt think skymin was broken for doubles ou, but it still ended up getting banned.

basically all im saying is that dont let your personal stance on something effect your decision making, and if you still really dont want a suspect, give us a reason.
 
Well outside of the clearly stated argument "it's not broken, it just pushes TR over the edge" which is already false:

Doubles UU has a Smogon user base of like six people. You can't hold a suspect test for an unofficial meta with that few people. Add that to the number of things that are definitely way more powerful than Camerupt (hello Mega Latias) and the multitude of counter play to TR that doesn't disappear just because it's UU and you get "really not worth it"
 
Arcticblast said:
Well outside of the clearly stated argument "it's not broken, it just pushes TR over the edge" which is already false:

Doubles UU has a Smogon user base of like six people. You can't hold a suspect test for an unofficial meta with that few people. Add that to the number of things that are definitely way more powerful than Camerupt (hello Mega Latias) and the multitude of counter play to TR that doesn't disappear just because it's UU and you get "really not worth it"
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Then I believe we should get rid of the ladder if this is the mentality?
 
There's a difference between "active enough to have a suspect" and "active enough to have a ladder/be a meta"
Arctic is saying that it falls under the second one but not the first one
:/
 
The ladder actually gets a fair bit of activity (enough for Antar to make an "official" Doubles NU banlist) but the number of people playing it who even have Smogon accounts is infinitesimally small
 
Well i mean i obviously wasnt planning a suspect that would incorporate the ladder, we very much do not have a userbase to that scale, but instead i was thinking about a discussion-based suspect that would revolve around a council vote, or even just a council vote period.

However whether we're allowed to even have a council in the first place is a different issue altogether

arcticblast surely if mega camerupt / mega latias are not broken then the potential council will decide so. Just because we have a small playerbase doesn't mean that the metagame shouldnt be balanced
 
Seeing as none of the sample teams have either potential suspect, I figured I'd submit one and see what you all think.

Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Protect

Escavalier @ Life Orb
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Megahorn
- Drill Run
- Protect

Jellicent @ Mental Herb
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp

Hariyama @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 12 SpA / 84 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt
Standard Mega Camerupt FullRoom. Mega Camerupt is dual STABs plus Ancient Power for Rotom-H and fliers, not much else to say. Hits like a truck and has decent bulk too. Escavalier hits hard and underspeeds everything except for Foongus and tying Mega Camerupt. LO with Protect because people expect AV and I wanted to hit harder to take advantage of TR turns. STABs + Drill Run for all the Fire types, although it can't KO Camel. Jellicent + Mental Herb is an almost guaranteed TR set unless it gets KO'd or put to sleep. Hydro Pump because Scald can't kill Mega Camerupt, plus I have Wisp for burns anyway. Recover can be run over Protect since no Sitrus but Protect is great. Hariyama is for Fake Out support and more strong attacking power. LO + Thick Fat instead of Flame Orb + Guts for more reassurance against the many Fire types. 1 Speed IV to outrun opposing TR Hariyama. Porygon2 is ridiculously bulky and sets TR, Recovering away what little damage the opposing team can do. Tri Attack + Shadow Ball for great neutral coverage. Nidoqueen is a little more niche, but it provides a lot of helpful coverage. Sludge Bomb KOs Aromatisse, Thunderbolt hits the bulky waters that have emerged to counter all the Fires. Surprisingly bulky as well. I don't remember what any of the EVs do but it's a reliable team and pretty easy to use. An alternate version of the team had Substitute > Ancient Power on Mega Camerupt and Rock Slide > Protect on Hariyama so that the same coverage is retained and you can snag a sub when the opponent protects to burn the last turn of TR. It worked pretty well but Protect on Hariyama has been helpful too.


P.S. Nidoqueen for Tier 3 or maybe even Tier 2 tbh. Awkward speed tier, but decent bulk, coverage is great, and Sheer Force + Life Orb hits hard. Try it out and let me know what you think.
 
Well Darkrai's NU again :/

Also, all four of the sample teams are now unusable.

Here's the shifts as written on the update thread:
Hoopa moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Abomasnow moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Chandelure moved from Doubles UU to Doubles OU
Ninetales moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Jellicent moved from Doubles UU to Doubles OU
Blaziken moved from Doubles UU to Doubles OU
Milotic moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Swampert moved from Doubles UU to Doubles OU
Serperior moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Mew moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Mawile moved from Doubles UU to Doubles OU
Hitmontop moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Thundurus-Therian moved from Doubles OU to Doubles UU
Click to expand...
EDIT: Ok the post just got edited and my previous post is now completely incorrect lol

We got:
  • Regular Hoopa (meh, could be ok but it's too frail)
  • Abomasnow (huge boon to TR and hail teams, should be really good)
  • Ninetales (sun is back)
  • Milotic (will be nice to counter the Hitmontop falling)
  • Serperior (struggles with all the fire types, Aboma, and TR, but still a strong snowballing Special Attacker)
  • Mew (great supporter)
  • Hitmontop (outclasses Hariyama in lots of ways, providing Intimidate in addition to Fake Out and/or Wide Guard support)
  • Thundurus-Therian (strong, fast special attacker, should do quite well like when it was in the tier before)
We lost:
  • Chandelure (one of the best offensive TR setters)
  • Jellicent (The best defensive TR setter... TR isn't looking quite so dominant anymore)
  • Blaziken (It was a strong and fast attacker, but there's plenty of other things to fill its niche)
  • Swampert (Rain really struggles now, with Abomasnow and Ninetales back *and* this gone)
  • Mawile (Decent Mega for TR)

Looks like a lot of big changes, but this metagame looks like a lot of fun! Looking forward to learning the new meta and rebuilding all of my teams
 
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haha wow what a shift. tr loses two of its best setters and gains another great mega, as if mega camerupt wasnt enough. rain looks kind of obsolete now, although we still have kingdra it looks a bit worse without swampert in the mix.

hitmontop looks neat, but i think that hariyama still stands its ground by being a lot stronger and with the ability to check both sun and mega camerupt.

i've "updated" the viability rankings by removing all risen pokemon, and adding all the new ones to tier tbd. you guys should discuss these new mons:
xzern said:
Tier TBD
These Pokemon could probably see a spot on these rankings, but they are either too uncommon, not discussed on enough, or are brand new to the tier. Discuss a placement on these Pokemon (or if they even deserve one at all,) to help make the rankings more accurate.
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NINETALES
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Hitmontop
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Abomasnow
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Hoopa
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Mew
497.png
Serperior
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Thundurus-Therian
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Milotic
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in related news, every last one of our sample teams are now obsolete. i've put in two of my better uu teams that are probably good: mega latias and sun. it would be really nice if you guys could post some of your teams along with replays of how they work, because the two teams we have now do not showcase the meta very well on their own.
 
Hitmontop and Milotic change the game a lot. Milotic would have been only ok if Hitmontop weren't in the meta however since Hitmontop just replaces the best mon in the tier, it has a really solid niche. a more offensive set is probably best since the vgc-style maranga garbage just clicks x against mega latias, the superior late game win con. DUU actually looks pretty fun now, hit me up in the dubs room if you want a game !_!
 
With Jellicent gone, it's Slowking's turn to shine! So, nominating Slowking to Tier 2. It has the special bulk to shine in a metagame filled with special attackers and is no longer outclassed by Jellicent as a Trick Room setter. Plus, it has Oblivious as an ability, making it kind of like a more offensive Aromatisse with recovery. It also has good typing to synergize with either of the best Trick Room megas, Abomasnow and Camerupt. However, it's held back by relatively low physical bulk and a little bit of 4MSS.
 
Thoughts:
- Hitmontop and Milotic dropping are both huge. The new best Intimidate user and the new best bulky Water are sure to shake things up, and seeing how the two will counterplay each other is something I look forward to.
- Mega Altaria catching on is awesome; great check to Mega Latias and now Hitmontop (who's going to be even more everywhere than Hariyama), Sun, and Serperior
- Mega Camerupt is harder to justify when we now have two Megas that don't lose to Latias, and TR is a lot weaker without Jellicent
- Sun and Hail are back, Rain can suck a fat one, TWave still best move
 
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