DP Blaziken .

[User 12783]

This is my first Peer Edit, so any help will be appreciated. I am also surprised that there is no set that takes advantage of Blaziken's potential as a Mixed Sweeper, even though he is outclassed by Infernape. I first saw Astamatitos use this set and it worked for him, then soon I tried it and it gave me a potent revenge killer as well as a Mixed Attacker.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/blaziken

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf MixiKen
move 1: Overheat / Fire Blast
move 2: Sky Uppercut
move 3: ThunderPunch
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Rash
evs: 76 Atk / 216 SpA / 216 Spd
ivs: 30 HP / 30 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Blaziken is an underrated mixed sweeper because of its average speed, which is remedied by a Choice Scarf. The moveset above gives the best coverage. Thunderpunch will 2HKO the standard Bulky Gyarados with Stealth Rocks. The Fire-type move and Sky Uppercut both benefit from STAB. Sky Uppercut can also 2HKO max HP and max Defense Bold Blissey. Hidden Power Ice will OHKO most Dragons and Grounds like Gliscor and Garchomp (if they aren't carrying Yache Berry). </p>

<p> Overheat is recommended over Fire Blast for the extra power and since this Blaziken is played as a hit and run Pokemon, the Special Attack drop won't matter as much but if you are really worried about the Special Attack drop, use Fire Blast. The EVs give you a 295 Attack stat, a 340 Special Attack stat, and a 375 Speed stat. With the 375 Speed, you can outspeed Weavile, neutral base 125 Pokemon, and anything lower. </p>

<p> This Blaziken is an effective physical wall breaker over the physical Blaziken sets. Overheat does up to 80% to Hippowdon, while Flare Blitz only does up to 36%. Overheat OHKOs Skarmory, and has a shot to OHKO even Bronzong. The ability to OHKO all of the OU Dragons and Gliscor, which no physical set can boast. </p>

 

[Bentendo1]

Flamethrower versus Fire Blast is a trade off of power over accuracy, but Flamethrower is preferred so you don't miss 100% of the time.

Would better read as:

"Flamethrower versus Fire Blast is a trade off of power over accuracy, but Flamethrower is preferred so you hit 100% of the time."

The way you had it implies Fire Blast misses 100% of the time.

If Swampert is giving your team problems as well, Hidden Power Grass may be preferred.

You may want to say what it's preferred over, although I'm assuming HP Ice.

Cool set.

 

[User 12783]

Fixed.

 

[Caelum]

What advantage is there to using this over Infernape? Infernape would almost hit just as hard on the special side and on the physical side Infernape has access to Close Combat as opposed to the inferior Sky Uppercut. Nice write up btw.

Now, just a few comments on your writing.

This is my first Peer Edit, so any help will be appreciated. I am also surprised that there is no set that takes advantage of Blaziken's potential as a Mixed Sweeper, even though he is outclassed by Infernape. I first saw Astamatitos use this set and it worked for him, then soon I tried it and it gave me a potent revenge killer as well as a Mixed Attacker. Seems like a good write up though.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/blaziken

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf MixiKen
move 1: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 2: Sky Uppercut
move 3: ThunderPunch
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Rash
evs: 92 Atk / 172 SpA / 244 Spd
ivs: 30 HP / 30 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Blaziken is an underrated mixed sweeper because of the average speed it has, but Choice Scarf remedies this.

For some reason it sounds odd when you say "because of the average speed it has" maybe change it to "because of its average speed, which is remedied by a Choice Scarf."

Choice Scarf may limit Blaziken, but the extra speed is almost necessary. The moveset above gives the best amount of coverage. Thunderpunch can 2HKO the standard Bulky Gyarados with Stealth Rocks.

I did a damage calculation and there is a 74% chance that Bulky Gyarados will be OHKO by Thunderpunch if it takes SR damage and it is always a guaranteed 2HKO. The way you say "Thunderpunch can 2HKO ..." makes it seem that this is not guaranteed when it is. Say something like Thunderpunch will ...

Flamethrower / Fire Blast and Sky Uppercut benefit from STAB. Sky Uppercut can also 2HKO the max HP and max Defense Bold Blissey. Hidden Power Ice will OHKO most Dragons and Grounds like Gliscor and Garchomp (without Yache Berry). </p>

<p> Flamethrower versus Fire Blast is a trade off of power over accuracy, but Flamethrower is preferred so you don't miss 100% of the time. Overheat can be used instead for the extra power and since you are going to have to switch out a lot, the negative effect of the move will not matter. If Swampert is giving your team problems as well, Hidden Power Grass may be preferred. </p>

For the first line keep it in order of reference. What I mean is, say "Flamethrower versus Fire Blast is a trade off of accuracy over power"

<p> The EVs give you a 299 Attack stat, a 329 Special Attack stat, and a 384 Speed stat. With the 384 Speed, you can outspeed base 125 Pokemon and anything lower. </p>

 

[sandman]

Infernape can do this set better.

 

[maddog]

I have always thought that Choice Scarf was always the way to go with Blaziken. Anywho, the set looks fine. I'll go ahead and edit some stuff

Spd should be Spe

<p> Blaziken is an underrated mixed sweeper because of his average speed, but Choice Scarf remedies this. (this sentence isn't really necessary) The moveset above gives the best (omitted amount) of coverage. Thunderpunch can 2HKO the standard Bulky Gyarados if it switches into Stealth Rock. The fire move and Sky Uppercut benefit from STAB. Sky Uppercut can also 2HKO the max HP and max Defense Bold Blissey. Hidden Power Ice will OHKO most Dragons and Grounds like Gliscor and Garchomp (if they aren't carrying a Yache Berry). </p>

<p> Flamethrower versus Fire Blast is a trade off of power over accuracy, but Flamethrower is preferred because hitting is vital. (I know that was a joke but it detracted from the serious tone of the article) Overheat can be used for the extra power and since this Blaziken is played as a hit and run Pokemon, the Special Attack drop won't matter as much. Hidden Power Grass is a good option over Hidden Power Ice if Swampert is giving you troubles.</p>

<p> The EVs give you a 299 Attack stat, a 329 Special Attack stat, and a 384 Speed stat. With the 384 Speed, you can outspeed base 125 Pokemon and anything lower. </p>

 

[User 12783]

Infernape can never OHKO Gyarados, while MixiKen does have a chance. MixiKen with Scarf is faster and more powerful then Infernape to an extent. Overall they are almost the same. BTW, I added your fixes.

And Sandman, that doesn't help :/

 

[sandman]

Infernape can never OHKO Gyarados, while MixiKen does have a chance. MixiKen with Scarf is faster and more powerful then Infernape to an extent. Overall they are almost the same. BTW, I added your fixes.

No, infernape doesn't have to add so many evs to speed so he can add more to his attack.

EDIT: its not opinion, its fact. with the above ev spread blazkien has 299at, 328 sa, and 257speed. With 220at, 240sa, and 48spe evs, infernape has these stats 299 attack, 334 special attack, and 264 speed. The advantage with infernape is that it has higher SA, CC instead of Sky Uppercut, and enough speed to outrun pokes with 130 base speed with a scarf.

Also i would mention next to hidden power grasss that it only 2kos the standard swampert.

 

[User 12783]

No, infernape doesn't have to add so many evs to speed so he can add more to his attack.

Again, stop, you are not helping. I know Infernape may do this better in your opinion but you don't have to keep stating this while not even helping out in the peer edit.

 

[Phuquoph]

Actually, "Infernape does this better" is a valid point. A Rash Infernape with 252 Atk / 240 SpA / 16 Spe gets 307 Atk / 334 SpA / 384 Spe. So that's exactly the same Speed, more in both attacking stats and Close Combat over Sky Uppercut. You could raise Infernape's Speed to 270 and still reach 299 / 327 in both attacking stats.

I am considering using this mixed set to replace the current Choice Scarf set (since it gets better coverage), but really Blaziken should not be using sets that make it inferior to Infernape.

 

[gec]

Anti and I made a similar set to this back in October 2007. We used the spread 136 Sp.att/160 Att/212 Speed which gave x/316/x/319/x/249 (373 with Scarf). I feel that the speed you have listed is not quite necessary, hence why I only wanted outspeed base 120 as apposed to the 125 you want to outpseed. The Sp.Attack EVs let you OHKO 6HP/0 Sp.Defense Salamence.
The thread may be of some use to you but it's heavily outdated.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29923

 

[User 12783]

Actually, "Infernape does this better" is a valid point. A Rash Infernape with 252 Atk / 240 SpA / 16 Spe gets 307 Atk / 334 SpA / 384 Spe. So that's exactly the same Speed, more in both attacking stats and Close Combat over Sky Uppercut. You could raise Infernape's Speed to 270 and still reach 299 / 327 in both attacking stats.

I am considering using this mixed set to replace the current Choice Scarf set (since it gets better coverage), but really Blaziken should not be using sets that make it inferior to Infernape.

This is the only set I found has good success in OU, and Infernape is usually just the common LO MixNape which doesn't run Scarf and is walled by Starmie and Gyarados. MixiKen can actually OHKO Gyarados and possibly Starmie as well. Granted Infernape also gets ThunderPunch, it doesn't use it on a regular basis though.

GEC, my spread actually does the same with a little less attack which I think is not needed IMO unless you actually need it to OHKO something. Also, I was gonna trade for your MixiKen as well, but it turned out hacked so yeah. ;) Also, X-Act agrees with me too!

Honestly, I think that since Blaziken's only saving grace over Infernape is that it has actually higher attacking stats, then you should raise the stat that it's bad in, i.e. Speed. So, yeah, if I would use Blaziken for any reason, I would also slap a Choice Scarf.

I would actually give it more speed though. 196 EVs in Speed with a +Speed nature gives it 405 speed. I'm not saying to give it that much speed, but to increase the speed. 240 EVs with Rash nature (i.e. your nature) outspeeds base 125s, for instance. It's important to outspeed certain threats.

Straight from your own thread

 

[sandman]

This is the only set I found has good success in OU, and Infernape is usually just the common LO MixNape which doesn't run Scarf and is walled by Starmie and Gyarados. MixiKen can actually OHKO Gyarados and possibly Starmie as well. Granted Infernape also gets ThunderPunch, it doesn't use it on a regular basis though.

Did you just read what Phuquoph said? Infernape does the same set with more attack so it can kill gyarados and starmie better than blaziken. Saying that infernape never uses thunder punch is not a good argument, maybe he never uses Thunder punch or HP grass because he gets Grass knot.

Well you should've tried more sets. Blaziken is a really good batonpasser and i use to run this set.

Blaziken Leftover/salac berry
Substitute
Focus Punch
HP Ice/OverHeat/Thunder Punch
BatonPass
Nature: Lonely
EV:112spe / 252at / 136sa

First turn i use sub and usaully something like salamence, gyarados, or bulky water come in. Hp Ice and Thunderpunch kill sala and gyarados. If they switch in a bulky water i baton pass to something like breloom, shaymin, or celebi to take the surf. If i come in a second time and use sub, my opponents usually predicted a switch and used icebeam to break the sub for the next switch in. I added enough evs so the subs wouldn't break from milotics icebeams though so they end up taking two focus punches!

 

[User 12783]

Did you just read what Phuquoph said? Infernape does the same set with more attack so it can kill gyarados and starmie better than blaziken. Saying that infernape never uses thunder punch is not a good argument, maybe he never uses Thunder punch or HP grass because he gets Grass knot.

Well you should've tried more sets. Blaziken is a really good batonpasser and i use to run this set.

Blaziken Leftover/salac berry
Substitute
Focus Punch
HP Ice/OverHeat/Thunder Punch
BatonPass
Nature: Lonely
EV:112spe / 252at / 136sa

First turn i use sub and usaully something like salamence, gyarados, or bulky water come in. Hp Ice and Thunderpunch kill sala and gyarados. If they switch in a bulky water i baton pass to something like breloom, shaymin, or celebi to take the surf. If i come in a second time and use sub, my opponents usually predicted a switch and used icebeam to break the sub for the next switch in. I added enough evs so the subs wouldn't break from milotics icebeams though so they end up taking two focus punches!

You are derailing this thread. Even if Infernape can do the same thing, the mass aren't using it to do the same thing. Grass Knot versus Thunder Punch isn't a good argument either. Also, you posted another set that we all already know. Blaziken may be a good Baton Passer but that set is already in the Analysis and we all already know that. The topic right now is Choice Scarfed Mixed Blaziken not a Baton Passing Blaziken.

Also, I did read Phuquoph's post. Why would I reply to it if I didn't?!

 

[Phuquoph]

Stay on topic. This thread is about Choice Scarf Blaziken only. Do not post other entirely different sets.

Anyway, the EV spread GEC posted is interesting. Weavile is the only Pokemon (besides other low Speed Scarfers) you need 384 Speed for, and Blaziken can beat the CB sets anyway, unless it switches straight into Brick Break, or the rare Aerial Ace. What significant advantages would the extra attacking power provide?

 

[Wayff]

First of all, I presonally think you can go as low as 160 Speed EVs just for Starmie. This leaves you with alot of investment for attack. Then, I think you should put enough EVs to guarntee a OHKO on Gyarados with Stealth Rock up. The rest should go into Special Attack.

My two cents.

Edit: I agree with Phuquoph's 2nd post and GEC.

 

[User 12783]

Stay on topic. This thread is about Choice Scarf Blaziken only. Do not post other entirely different sets.

Anyway, the EV spread GEC posted is interesting. Weavile is the only Pokemon (besides other low Speed Scarfers) you need 384 Speed for, and Blaziken can beat the CB sets anyway, unless it switches straight into Brick Break, or the rare Aerial Ace. What significant advantages would the extra attacking power provide?

We could go try and get a OHKO on Gyarados 100% of the time, like Wayff said. ThunderPunch would benefit even more to with the more Attack EVs. Maybe we should do that, but what EVs of Speed would you recommend, Phuquoph?

 

[Caelum]

I know you didn't ask me but I thought I would put in my opinion on the EVs, I just tried this set and it does work and it also has some benefits over Infernape actually (I tried each one in the same team slot). However, I think you speed is a bit excessive. I would just run 212 Speed EVs giving you enough to outrun +speed nature base 120s (notably Jolly Dugtrio). The only thing I see as an advantage to outrun base 125s is Weavile but the standard weavile spread in the analysis has 216 speed EVs, Jolly and Blaziken would only need 216 speed EVs himself to outrun that spread. I think either 212 or 216 in speed is the way to go and then just do a split special attack/attack depending on what you want to KO.

 

[Phuquoph]

I know you didn't ask me but I thought I would put in my opinion on the EVs, I just tried this set and it does work and it also has some benefits over Infernape actually (I tried each one in the same team slot). However, I think you speed is a bit excessive. I would just run 212 Speed EVs giving you enough to outrun +speed nature base 120s (notably Jolly Dugtrio). The only thing I see as an advantage to outrun base 125s is Weavile but the standard weavile spread in the analysis has 216 speed EVs, Jolly and Blaziken would only need 216 speed EVs himself to outrun that spread. I think either 212 or 216 in speed is the way to go and then just do a split special attack/attack depending on what you want to KO.

I agree. I would put most of your EVs in Special Attack, so you have a better chance to OHKO non-Yache Garchomp. You need something like 340 for a good chance to OHKO, guaranteed with Stealth Rock. Even with minimal Attack EVs you can 2HKO a Gyarados switching into Stealth Rock, or revenge kill it (again, after Stealth Rock). Lots of Special Attack means you have a good shot at OHKOing Azelf too.

 

[User 12783]

I agree. I would put most of your EVs in Special Attack, so you have a better chance to OHKO non-Yache Garchomp. You need something like 340 for a good chance to OHKO, guaranteed with Stealth Rock. Even with minimal Attack EVs you can 2HKO a Gyarados switching into Stealth Rock, or revenge kill it (again, after Stealth Rock). Lots of Special Attack means you have a good shot at OHKOing Azelf too.

Alright, I'm on this.

Ok, Phuquoph, since you said we need 340 SpA EVs as well, I've come up with 76 Atk / 216 SpA / 216 Spd as the EV Spread. You outspeed Weavile and you have 340 Special Attack. The rest goes into Attack.

 

[Fabbles]

Agreeing with Caelum on the 216 speed EVs, as I have used Scarf Blaziken a very good amount (although completely physical, which I will discuss). The EVs protect you from Dugtrio, as well as things as neutral natured Scarf Heatran.

Now my only questions on this set are does it offer more advantages over the physical set? With this build, Fire Blast has a ~17% chance to KO Max HP/ 291 Special Defense Bronzong, and Flamethrower/HP Ice will never 2HKO max HP/Min Special Defense Hippowdon. The loss in power against Gyarados is very noticeable as well, as he is one of the primary counters to Blaziken.

It would help a lot if you could do some Overheat Calculations (the only thing that can 1HKO Bronzong), as well as calculations for the rest of the moves against common threats. Right now I am just not seeing the advantages over Physical Blaziken.

Edit: With the new spread, you have ~34% chance to KO Bronzong (accuracy included), and will always 2HKO Hippo with any special attack (HP Ice guaranteed with SR). ThunderPunch only has ~17% to KO Bulky Gyarados (the one in the Smogon analysis) with SR and one turn of Leftovers recovery included. The loss of speed against Scarf Heatran is disheartening, but I think this is the best the EVs will get. I would highly consider running Overheat though.

 

[User 12783]

Agreeing with Caelum on the 216 speed EVs, as I have used Scarf Blaziken a very good amount (although completely physical, which I will discuss). The EVs protect you from Dugtrio, as well as things as neutral natured Scarf Heatran.

Now my only questions on this set are does it offer more advantages over the physical set? With this build, Fire Blast has a ~17% chance to KO Max HP/ 291 Special Defense Bronzong, and Flamethrower/HP Ice will never 2HKO max HP/Min Special Defense Hippowdon. The loss in power against Gyarados is very noticeable as well, as he is one of the primary counters to Blaziken.

It would help a lot if you could do some Overheat Calculations (the only thing that can 1HKO Bronzong), as well as calculations for the rest of the moves against common threats. Right now I am just not seeing the advantages over Physical Blaziken.

Edit: With the new spread, you have ~34% chance to KO Bronzong (accuracy included), and will always 2HKO Hippo with any special attack (HP Ice guaranteed with SR). ThunderPunch only has ~17% to KO Bulky Gyarados (the one in the Smogon analysis) with SR and one turn of Leftovers recovery included. The loss of speed against Scarf Heatran is disheartening, but I think this is the best the EVs will get. I would highly consider running Overheat though.

I have changed the Peer Edit so Overheat since you are correct Fabbles. After using it a lot yesterday, I see the advantages of using Overheat instead. I put Overheat as the main option, then put Flamethrower / Fire Blast.

This set does require prediction to use accurately since you will have to predict Gyarados and Heatran, making the 2HKO on Gyarados is vital. One on the switch, and the other on the next turn.

 

[Phuquoph]

Now my only questions on this set are does it offer more advantages over the physical set? With this build, Fire Blast has a ~17% chance to KO Max HP/ 291 Special Defense Bronzong, and Flamethrower/HP Ice will never 2HKO max HP/Min Special Defense Hippowdon. The loss in power against Gyarados is very noticeable as well, as he is one of the primary counters to Blaziken.

It would help a lot if you could do some Overheat Calculations (the only thing that can 1HKO Bronzong), as well as calculations for the rest of the moves against common threats. Right now I am just not seeing the advantages over Physical Blaziken.

Physical Blaziken struggles against Dragons and physical walls. Overheat / Fire Blast do a lot more damage to Hippo, Gliscor, etc. when compared to Flare Drive.

I have changed the Peer Edit so Overheat since you are correct Fabbles. After using it a lot yesterday, I see the advantages of using Overheat instead. I put Overheat as the main option, then put Flamethrower / Fire Blast.

I see no reason to use Flamethrower. Two turns of Overheat does more, and you've got Fire Blast for potential sweeping. I haven't used this particular set, but from using the purely physical Choice Scarf set, I know that Blaziken rarely gets to stay in for more than two turns. Overheat will also OHKO Azelf around 80% of the time, whereas Fire Blast will need Stealth Rock to OHKO. Flamethrower won't OHKO, even with Stealth Rock.

 

[User 12783]

Physical Blaziken struggles against Dragons and physical walls. Overheat / Fire Blast do a lot more damage to Hippo, Gliscor, etc. when compared to Flare Drive.



I see no reason to use Flamethrower. Two turns of Overheat does more, and you've got Fire Blast for potential sweeping. I haven't used this particular set, but from using the purely physical Choice Scarf set, I know that Blaziken rarely gets to stay in for more than two turns. Overheat will also OHKO Azelf around 80% of the time, whereas Fire Blast will need Stealth Rock to OHKO. Flamethrower won't OHKO, even with Stealth Rock.

Alright, I will change that now.

 

[User 12783]

Anymore comments, criticism, etc.?