DP Rayquaza

Articanus

Articanus

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/rayquaza

[SET]
Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Extremespeed
Move 3: Waterfall / Dragon Claw
Move 4: Earthquake / Stone Edge
Item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Dragon Dance is often used to compensate for Rayquaza's below average Speed, boosting its "Outrage"-eous Attack along the way. This makes it seem superior to Swords Dancing, which, while boasting an Attack score comparable to that of Kakarot's power level, leaves it vulnerable to threats such as the Lati@s, Darkrai, and Choice Scarf Kyogre. However, this set attempts to patch that up with one of Rayquaza's many exclusive moves: Extremespeed. With a bit of help from residual damage such as Stealth Rock, even the great walls such as Lugia and Giratina go down in a hit, leaving those battered Palkias, Mewtwos, and Deoxys(any version) as easy picking.</p>

<p>While it may seem harsh to forget STAB on any pokemon, Waterfall is recommended over Dragon Claw to hit Groudon, among others, harder. It also comes with a handy 20% flinch rate, should one find him/her-self in a tight spot. If you don't think you can let go of STAB, or would like to hit Deoxys-D and Giratina harder, Dragon Claw is always a good second choice. For the last spot, Earthquake is best to take steels out of the picture that would ruin your sweep. If Lugia causes a problem for your team, or if you have Magnezone or Dugtrio to take those grounded steels, Stone Edge is the one for you. The EV spread hits a good HP number that rounds down Life Orb and Stealth Rock while also outspeeding minimum Lugia. It's useless to max speed unless one is using a Focus Sash, as Lugia, if it runs speed, always has a minimum of 290, always beating Adamant Rayquaza.</p>

<p>Life Orb gives enough power to guarantee certain KOs with a single Swords Dance, and is thus the preferred item. Focus Sash is a good alternative, however, as it guarantees a Swords Dance, and can make Rayquaza more powerful than the Life Orbed version if it gets a free stat up on the switch, since it will be free to do so again. This nets it 3x more power compared to Life Orb's 2.6x. Taking any kind of residual damage ruins the Focus Sash, making Life Orb the more reliable item. Rayquaza should usually be using an Adamant nature, since Extremespeed will be its most commonly used attack. If one is paranoid of an opposing Rayquaza’s Extremespeed, Jolly could be used over Adamant. Jolly should also be used if Rayquaza finds itself with Swords Dance and Outrage on the same set. However, Outrage is not recommended as it makes Rayquaza a very easy pokemon to revenge-kill, especially in ubers. It does have the benefit of OHKOing both Groudon and Lugia after an SD.</p>
 
The first sentence comes off as a little awkward.

With Rayquaza's below average Speed, especially in ubers, most people use Dragon Dance to increase it while further boosting his "Outrage"-eous power thanks to his 150 base Attack, coupled with a 120 power STAB move.

TO

While Dragon Dance is often used to compensate for Rayquaza's below average Speed, boosting its "Outrage"-eous Attack along the way, Swords Dance opts for the opposite, boosting it's already extravangant Attack and throwing in a priority move to mitigate the problems associated with low Speed.
 
Swords Dance(obviously) and Extremespeed are obligatory for this set,
Click to expand...

You misspelled obviously but I would remove it all together if you state later that they are both obligatory

I see no reason to use Waterfall. Swords Dance, Extremespeed, Earthquake, Outrage should be the set as it works the best.
 
I changed both sentences.

Waterfall is mainly for Groudon, since it does ~80% with a Sash from what I've seen from Support Versions, and with LO it is a guaranteed OHKO. I've even gone as far as Extremespeed, EQ, and Waterfall as my attacking moves. I'm considering just removing Outrage as an option: I only use it with a Sash to cover me, and with a Jolly nature. This altogether just lowers the versality and power that Dragon Claw and Adamant achieves.
 
The only thing i see is that it might be better to switch around "Ground" and "Steel" in the last sentence of the second paragraph of "Set Comments" to match with the moves given in he set. It's listed "Earthquake/Waterfall", so i think that the sentence should match the listings (weakness-wise) and read "steel or ground types."
 
SD LO Outrage can OHKO Groudon, which is pretty much the main reason to use it, so that should be mentioned somewhere.
 
To be honest i don't see the merit in using either Dragon Claw or Outrage aside from hitting Giratina, who is hardly what i would call common. All of the dragons you would probaly need it for are faster than you anyway, and I would rather just use SD LO Extremespeed on all of them except Dialga which can be taken care of by Earthquake.

Also another thing i want to question is the EVs. I've used SD LO Ray before and i have honestly never found a use for so much speed with such a strong priority attack, since your pretty much OHKOing all faster threats. The set i've used is listed below.

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Trait: Air Lock
EVs: 200 HP / 236 Atk / 72 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge / Earthquake
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance

Pretty much the same thing just with a variation on the EVs and moveslot suggestions. Waterfall as Artanicus said OHKO's Groudon, however what he didn't mention is that Stone Edge after a Swords Dance also OHKO's Lugia, Rays most popular counter and should probaly be included as an option on the set.

The Evs i have listed outspeed no speed Lugia by one point in order to strike first with Stone Edge, however if Lugia is still faster it is only doing 85% max to Ray instead of the possible 93% it can do if Ray doesnt have HP Evs meaning Ray is still getting off that Stone Edge as well as one more attack afterwards. Earthquake is listed as i've mentioned before an option to hit Dialga who would otherwise wall the set.

So you might want to consider using this EV spread in your peer edit as well as giving Stone Edge a mention.
 
Oh wow I completely overlooked Stone Edge when I was looking through his physical movepool!

How stupid of me -.-'

I'll run calculations on a Reflected Stone Edge + Extremespeed combo to see if it can 2HKO Lugia.

What if I made two seperate sets: one with Extremespeed and one without.

The second set would probably go something like:

Rayquaza @ Life Orb / Focus Sash(My personaly preference)
Air Lock: Jolly
252 Attack, 4 Defense, 252 Speed
Swords Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Dragon Claw / Overheat

If I am correct, Outrage already OHKOs both Lugia and Groudon, so Earthquake is needed to take away the steels that would resist this. Overheat (probably) takes out the two steels that aren't OHKOed by this combo: Skarmory and Bronzong. Dragon Claw is an option as secondary STAB if you don't feel like Outraging and getting locked in.

In general, this is inferior to the Extremespeed set, but it could work against a stall team once Latias is out of the picture. Lugia is too damn fast to be a wall: he makes it near impossible to pull either set off(though I usually have SpecsKyogre in the wings who switches in with Imputy). I think it would be better to leave Extremespeed on one set and put Outrage on a seperate set. Or maybe even forgoe the second set and not even suggest Outrage(except to mention that it shouldn't be used).

I tend to run Focus Sash on my Rayquaza because of Palkia's coming in on my SD. Extremespeed doesn't OHKO with a Life orb, so I like to take the hit and Dragon Claw or SD. If I'm running sash, the EVs have never really been important, so I just ran max speed/ attack. I will put you EV spread down, but I feel it would be best to max the attack stat. I will also mention to just run a max speed / attack spread if one should opt for a sash(like myself).
 
Lugia can survive a Stone Edge as well as the following Extremespeed after a Reflect, however Stone Edge does 2HKO it through the Reflect.

Outrage would OHKO both Groudon and Lugia after Swords Dance with Life Orb, but Ray ian't exactly the fastest poke in Ubers and will probaly end up dying to a Palkia, Latias or Darkrai right after he uses Outrage which is why i don't like it on the set to begin with.

Extremespeed should never be dropped from the SD set as it is Ray's only way of dealing with faster threats since it's not getting the speed boost from Dragon Dance.

Personally I think you should use the EVs i listed for the main set and just give a mention about the Speed Evs somewhere in other options. And as far as max attack is concerned it isn't a necessity. My Ev spread generates 434 atk which doesn't really stop it from making an OHKO's it would normally achieve with 438 attack, so it's hardly worth mentioning.
 
Fixed the EVs and moveset options. Sorry, I've been kinda busy. I even hurreid with the update, so I probably missed a LOT.
 
bumping this because I want to throw it in the analysis because it really needs to go on there. i think the main set needs cleaning though. i know maniac doesn't like outrage in there, but i really think it's almost necessary for this set. if you're going to run dclaw > outrage because you're afraid of getting locked in and revenged killed you really should just run dd + outrage.

this is the set the way i think it should be

[SET]
Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Outrage
Move 3: Extremespeed
Move 4: Earthquake / Dragon Claw
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
 
As we discussed, DC with a SD does more than Outrage with a DD. With this is mind, Outrage would be better suited for the DD set. However, those who don't like being locked in can use this set, with the side-effect of the loss of speed.

I did add a line in for Outrage, though.
 
Dragon Claw with a Swords Dance actually does less than Outrage with a Dragon Dance. Let's use this (slightly inaccurate but functional) model:
Dragon Claw's BP: 80
Outrage's BP: 120

80 x 2 (Swords Dance boost) = 160
120 x 1.5 (Dragon Dance boost) = 180
 
Min damage on 0/0 Modest Kyogre with +1 252 Atk Adamant Outrage: 115%
Min damage on 0/0 Modest Kyogre with +2 252 Atk Adamant Dragon Claw: 102%

Outrage will be doing more regardless.

This isn't really a realistic example. I simply just chose a random Pokemon to show the damage difference.
 
I'd prefer this to be Jolly with more speed to outspeed Lugia, as Life Orb Swords Dance Stone Edge can OHKO Lugia, then hopefully allowing for a clean sweep with Extremespeed. When you're slower, Lugia, Ray's most common counter, will just Reflect, then Roost stall, eventually just using Ice Beam, which will KO after Life Orb recoil.
 
I would take umbasc's suggestions into account, although if you want to OHKO Lugia, Life Orb is your only choice.

[SET]
Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Extremespeed
Move 3: Dragon Claw / Outrage
Move 4: Earthquake / Stone Edge / Waterfall
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Click to expand...

Otherwise I think this analysis is fine.
 
Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Extremespeed
Move 3: Dragon Claw / Outrage
Move 4: Earthquake / Stone Edge / Waterfall
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe



Making this jolly cuts out rayquaza's guarantee ohko on groudon with waterfall. Honestly, don't try to outspeed lugia. If worse comes to worst, lugia can simply naturally outspeed rayquaza even if it does have a +speed nature.
 
With or without +Atk nature and 1 SD, Waterfall still runs in short from OHKOing the bulkiest Groudon used. The support Groudon (next bulkiest) won't be going down easily, with only around 35% to OHKO with Adamant anyway, and its not worth the risk due to Stone Edge/Thunderwave and so on.

Adamant can't easily take down Lugia while Jolly can, so this is why I also further recommend Jolly.
 
Junior said:
With or without +Atk nature and 1 SD, Waterfall still runs in short from OHKOing the bulkiest Groudon used. The support Groudon (next bulkiest) won't be going down easily, with only around 35% to OHKO with Adamant anyway, and its not worth the risk due to Stone Edge/Thunderwave and so on.

Adamant can't easily take down Lugia while Jolly can, so this is why I also further recommend Jolly.
Click to expand...

I'm telling you lugia can afford dropping its already titanic defense for a few extra speed points >__> If most lugias carry reflect, there is stronger reason to just speed lugia up for a jolly rayquaza. Also, a lot of groudons spreads I've seen lately have been 252 hp / 32 def adamant (min damage from a sd waterfall with orb is 101% if adamant....91% if jolly).
 
I'm bumping this one last time because I really want this to go into the analysis because:

1) It works.
2) I worked hard on it.

The second reason doesn't really justify anything, but I'm just putting it out there. =P

Edit: my bad. ._." I thought it was forgotten lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top