Gen 4 DP Research Thread #6 (Even newer)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bologo said:
Hey, I was reading on bulbapedia that confusion damage (the damage dealt to oneself when confused) is a 40 BP Typeless physical move, so I was wondering, does the ability Technician raise confusion damage by 1.5x, as it would become a 60 BP move?
Click to expand...
I just tested it, and Technician does not give a boost to hurting oneself in ones confusion.
 
This was brought up on a custom Shoddy server I was visiting. During a battle I had with someone, my opponent decided to switch their Dark/Flying Fakemon who had Color Change as it's ability into me predicting a Earthquake. Well he was right about me using EQ, but in a weird twist of fate his Flying Fakemon took damage from my Earthquake and died. Because this "glitch" I have some questions involving Color Change that needs some answers.

1. If Color Change was given to a Pokemon other than Kecleon, what happens to that's Pokemon's original typing? The Admin on that server says the ability starts the Pokemon off as a Normal type, but I want to be sure about this claim.

2. If a dual type Pokemon with Color Change is hit by a different typed attack, does it wipe both of the Pokemon's original typing or just the first one?

3. Are the result from the first two question the same if tested within FRLG.
 
Thanks for the clarification Staraptor Call.

I have another question:

I checked bulbapedia, serebii, google, and smogon for details on the move Mist. However, one thing that was very unclear is whether it prevents stat reductions from things like Draco Meteor, or if it's basically like Clear Body. Could anyone please clarify this?
 
Bologo said:
Thanks for the clarification Staraptor Call.

I have another question:

I checked bulbapedia, serebii, google, and smogon for details on the move Mist. However, one thing that was very unclear is whether it prevents stat reductions from things like Draco Meteor, or if it's basically like Clear Body. Could anyone please clarify this?
Click to expand...
I just tested this, and it acts the same way as clear body. Draco Meteor still caused a Special Attack drop after use when Mist was in play.
 
I was wondering is it possible to RNG a pokemon that, say, you got from an event and is waiting to be picked up at the poke-mart? Like can I make it so that the pokemon I recieve has awsome IV's with/ without it being a shiney? Thanks.
 
They say you must have a non-chained Shiny in order to calculate your Secret ID. However, some time ago here on Smogon I read that if you have 4-5 (not sure which number) chained Shinies you can then calculate your Secret ID. Is this true?
 
If a frozen Pokemon uses Flame Wheel / Sacred Fire, but is also confused, can it still hurt itself in its confusion? If it does, does it remain frozen or does it thaw? Same for a frozen Pokemon with Truant, which might be easier to test but could theoretically give different results.

Where does a move having 0 PP fall in the veto tiers? This can be tested by using a move with low PP twice in a row, with a faster Pokemon using Spite before the second execution.
 
Hi. I ran some tests, including one of obi's that I quoted below. All of these tests where made on Pearl version against the twins with two Pachirisu under Floaroma town. I read some posts back that it should be done in Heart Gold or Soul Silver, but I still don't have those versions. At least these tests can be used as a starting point.

obi said:
Where does a move having 0 PP fall in the veto tiers? This can be tested by using a move with low PP twice in a row, with a faster Pokemon using Spite before the second execution.
Click to expand...

I did two tests for this:
The first I used a Bronzor (Lvl 5) with Trick Room and a Misdreavus (over Lvl 40) with Spite. The battle went like this (I'll cut out the Pachirisus' moves, because I don't remember them and they don't affect the outcome anyway):

Turn 1:
Misdreavus Spites one of the Pachirisu, Bronzor uses Trick Room (4 PP afterwards)

Turn 2:
Misdreavus Spites the other Pachirisu, Bronzor uses Trick Room (3 PP)

Turn 3:
Misdreavus Spites Bronzor and the message says that Trick Room's PP was reduced by 3 (in other words, the game doesn't take more PP than those that are left), and afterwards Bronzor uses Trick Room (now with 0 PP) and the following message apears: "But there was no PP left for the move!"

In the following turn I checked the PP of Trick Room and it was at 0, so using a move with 0 PP doesn't put the PP of the move under 0 or anything like that (and I was waiting for a glitch :P )...


I did a second test with similar results. This time I used a second Misdreavus (lvl 5) instead of Bronzor, that I will call MisdreavusB, that had Perish Song, also with 5 PP.

Turn 1:
Misdreavus Spites MisdreavusB and fails, MisdreavusB uses Perish Song (4 PP afterwards)

Turn 2:
Misdreavus Spites MisdreavusB and reduces Perish Song's PP by 4, MisdreavusB uses Perish Song (now with 0 PP) and the "But there was no PP left for the move!" message apears.

So it looks like you can actually use Spite as a makeshift Protect if your Pokémon is faster than the oponent and the move the oponent is going to use has 4 or less PP left.


Second problem:
After all the talking about Shadow Force working as Feint, I had the doubt if it worked for the entire turn or only after it hit. For this test I used a Giratina with Shadow Force and a Rayquaza with ExtremeSpeed (to attack Giratina and do nothing) and Protect.

Turn 1:
Rayquaza ExtremeSpeeds Giratina (no damage), both Pachirisu Quick Attack Rayquaza and hit, then Giratina "vanishes instantly" with Rayquaza as it's target.

Turn 2:
Rayquaza Protects, both Pachirisu Quick Attack Rayquaza and fail to hit due to Protect, then Giratina hits Rayquaza with Shadow Force.

I did a second round with this test with the same results.
So we can see that Shadow Force only takes down Protect after it hits. I would assume that Feint woks the same way, but since it has it's own priority bracket, it may be hard to test. The only thing I see that can be tested is if a second Feint fails after the first one breaks a Protect...


Third problem:
For Future Sight, the special attack and special defence used on calculating damage are those of the Pokémon (user and target) that are on field when the attack is selected. In the same way, acording to the Smogon page of the move, Protect will only work on Future Sight if used on the turn it is selected. But what about accuracy? When does the move check if it hits or misses?
For this test I used a Bronzong with Future Sight, a Staraptor with Double Team, and a third Pokémon that I will call X (because I don't remember which Pokémon it was :P ) for "place holding"

The battle goes as followed:

Turn 1
Bronzong and Pokémon X are on the field. Bronzong Future Sights X and X wastes time.

Turn 2
Pokémon X is switched out for Staraptor and Bronzong Hypnosis one of the Pachirisu.

Turn 3
Staraptor uses Double Team and Bronzong Hypnosis the other Pachirisu (don't know if Hypnosis hits any turn, doesn't matter anyway, it's just stalling turns). At the end of the turn Future Sight comes (I'll show a hit and miss counting at the end).

After this the battle enters the following loop:

Turn 1 of loop
Staraptor is switched for Pokémon X and Bronzong Future Sights X.

Turn 2 of loop
Pokémon X is switched out for Staraptor and Bronzong Hypnosis the Pachirisus, recovers PP of Future Sight or of Double Team or even recovers Staraptors HP (to let the battle go longer).

Turn 3 of loop
Staraptor uses Double Team and Bronzong continues wasting time. At the end of the turn Future Sight comes.

End of loop

So after the first 3 turns and 44 loops (or in other words, 45 Future Sight turns) I obtained the following hit count:
27 hits and 18 misses in 45 Future Sights. This would mean a 27/45=60% accuracy.
With one Double Team, Future Sight's accuracy will be 90%*0.75=67.5%.
With the 60% that I obtained, I think we can tell that the evasion modifiers used to calculate if Future Sight hits or not (and consequntly, the turn the hit test is done) are those of the Pokémon in the field at the moment the move comes.

I don't know if there is any problem with the tests I made (maybe should have done more turns for the Future Sight test?) but if you see any please tell me.
 
roar/whirlwind and pursuit

In doubles, If a sleeping aerodactyl sleeptalks roar/whirlwind on an opposing pokemon and aerodactyl's slower partner pursuits the same pokemon does it hit the roared/whirlwinded pokemon (for what base power) or the pokemon that comes in. If it hits the pokemon that comes in what is the base power?
 
If a Pokemon is immune to U-turn and the opponent uses U-turn, does the user still get to switch out after U-turn fails to do anything?
 
What do you mean immune to U-turn, like they don't get hit at all like normal type moves versus ghost types. If so then as a note, their are no pokemon types immune to bug type moves although there are pokemon types that are resistant to them.
 
I had originally typed up a post saying to use Porygon that had Traced Wonder Guard, but then I realized that Shedinja is immune to Bug as well, so I forgot to mention it.
 
Rage and Attract

Jimbo said:
Turn 4:
Smeargle used Ingrain but it failed
Luvdisc used Attract, Smeargle became infatuated
Absorbed nutrients

Turn 5:
Smeargle was in love with Luvdisc, Smeargle used Rage
Luvdisc used HP Ground
Absorbed nutrients

Turn 6:
Smeargle used Astonish (note, no "was in love with")
Luvdisc used Hidden Power
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this was DP, Pl, or HGSS, but I had a similar situation with Rage canceling Attract, but it there's a major difference in my situation (which occurred in HGSS).

Double Battle, but I'm ignoring my Paras that only used Bullet Seed
Turn A:
Croconaw uses Rage, Croconaw became infatuated (Cute Charm)
Clefable used Doubleslap, Croconaw's Rage was building x3
Clefable used Doubleslap, Croconaw's Rage was building x2

Turn B:
Croconaw used Bite, no infatuation
Clefable fainted (the previously attractive one)
Clefable used Doubleslap
Wigglytuff is sent out

--------------------------------------
In the quoted battle, Rage didn't build, it just seemed to negate infatuation. Rage clearly built, from two different attackers, after my Croconaw was infatuated via Cute Charm.

It's either a shift in mechanics from the tested game to HGSS, or it's different mechanics in the timing of Rage and Attraction. The Smeargle was infatuated beforehand and then became enraged. My Croconaw was enraged and then infatuated from a single attack (but I'm not clear if Rage status starts on execution or when a hit is received, so maybe I was still infatuated first).
 
Can someone confirm/deny that this EVing method works in game on HGSS (because that's the most recent game):

This simple trick for EV training your level 100, Generation 4 Pokemon might have been found out already, and be posted somewhere, but if it has, it has been overlooked by me. If this trick isn't out there anywhere, I'm glad to have discovered it.

Have you ever recieved a level 100 Pokemon that has the potential to be good, but it's EV's just aren't in the right place for you? If you have, please read further, this will help you out alot.

First, to save some people some reading time, I will give ONLY the steps of how to do this correctly. Second, I will give the step-by-step details of how I discovered how to do this.

Section One (How to EV train your Level 100 Pokemon in Generation Four.)

Step 1) Use stat reducing berries (Pomeg for HP, Kelpsy for Attack, Qualot for Defense, Hondew for Special Attack, Grepa for Special Defense, Tamato for Speed), and remove ALL of your Pokemon's Effort Points.

Step 2) Give you Pokemon one Effort Point in a stat that it will NOT be needing it in.

Step 3) EV train your Pokemon, as usual, with either vitamins or through battling. Be sure to give it ALL of the Effort Points in ALL of the stats you will want them to be in, or you will have to start these steps over again.

Step 4) Remove the one extra Effort point you gave your Pokemon. Upon completion of these four steps, you will have successfully EV trained your level 100 pokemon with the stats you want it to have.

Section Two (How I discovered that this trick really works.)

I was EV training an Altaria today, and I rare candied it up to level 90 before I trained it in any way. When I was training it to have the exact EV's I wanted, I accedentally gave it an EV I didn't want it to have. By this time I had already given it 252 EV's in HP (The maximum allowed for a Pokemon in any one stat). I used a stat reducing berry to remove the EV I didn't want, and noticed that upon doing this, and without leveling it up, it's HP jumped from 290, to 315.

I completed EV training on the Altaria, but wondered if this was a version of the old "Box Trick" from the 3rd Generation games, so I had a Bold, level 100 Celebi I have always wished was EV trained differently, so I tried the steps I listed in the first section on it. AND IT WORKED!!!

I cannot confirm that this trick works in Diamond and Pearl Versions, but I can confirm it works in Platinum Version. If someone out there wishes to try this trick on Diamond or Pearl to confirm or disprove that it works with those games, it would be helpful.

Thank you for your time in reading this guide, and I hope this can help you better train your Pokemon.
Click to expand...

From here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2535074&postcount=112
 
supermarth64:

I would assume the trick works because the game recalculates the Pokemon's stats as it reduces its effort values. The same thing happens with leveling up and using "vitamins" (which I call stat enhancers.) Since a level 100 Pokemon can't level up and stat enhancers fail to work at a certain point, the only recourse is to use stat-reducing Berries to recalculate the stats.

tendo64, Fat Jimbo:

I've confirmed that the behavior exists in Diamond and Pearl. Therefore, I've modified my attack description for Rage to cover it:
If this attack is successful, the effect begins. During effect, whenever user loses HP due to an attack by a non-user (as well as Doom Desire and Future Sight), user's Attack is increased by 1 stage. Effect ends and user is no longer infatuated when user doesn't choose this attack for use or when user is replaced.
Click to expand...
 
Does Defog remove permanent Fog caused by Pursuit during Trick Room?

How much does Fog alter evasion / accuracy? Gravity lowers evasion to 3/5, which makes me suspect Fog raises evasion to 5/3. What is the change in accuracy when both effects are in play?
 
obi said:
Does Defog remove permanent Fog caused by Pursuit during Trick Room?

How much does Fog alter evasion / accuracy? Gravity lowers evasion to 3/5, which makes me suspect Fog raises evasion to 5/3. What is the change in accuracy when both effects are in play?
Click to expand...
Yes it does. Not sure about the second question, but I think I remember reading somewhere that it is indeed 5/3. Haven't tested it though
 
The use of Defog ends fog no matter how it's caused: "Even if opponent's evasiveness cannot be decreased, ... ends fog".

Gravity multiplies each active Pokemon's Accuracy by 10/6: During effect, each active Pokémon's Accuracy is multiplied by 10/6. Note that this effect does not modify the evasiveness stat stage. (The Smogon page says that "evasion" is decreased. However, I use "evasion" or evasiveness to refer only to the evasiveness stat stage, which is subtracted from the Accuracy stat stage in accuracy checks.)

Fog multiplies each active Pokemon's Accuracy by 6/10.

When both effects occur, first fog takes effect, then Gravity takes effect.
 
Is that information taken directly from the game's code?

What is the smallest unit of accuracy? In other words, is accuracy to a single digit (97.5% = 97%), a tenth of a percent (90.13% = 90.1%), or is it some other number (such as x / 256)? Without this information there is no way to distinguish 5/3 accuracy from 3/5 evasion other than directly reading the game's code.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top