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DP Tier Discussion - BL and UU (mark 2)

Miltank perhaps deserves testing, there are a lot of good UU fighting types and Miltank's stats aren't overwheling,though solid.

I don't think we need to to test Espeon. Its Speed and Special Attack are just too high. Its movepool may look shallow, but Psychic/HP Fighting/Shadow Ball is good enough coverage. Not to mention CMing and Bping.

Ludicolo would pretty unstoppable in UU IMO. Two uncommon weaknesses, and if its in rain a powerful water STAB. Grass STAB kills most of the water absorbers/water types that can take it, barring Toxicroak and Mantine. It needs Ice Beam for grass types though, so Mantine and Toxicroak are good counters, though Mantine might not be able to do much back other than Toxic.

Kabutops does seem rather imbalanced now that I look at it. Quagsire and Poliwrath are pretty good coubters though, and its typing is poor in the sense that most Pokes carry a super effective move against it. From experience I've found it stoppable.
 
Maniaclyrasist said:
It will have good "Physical" defense but it's Special defense is as i have said only mediocre and it will either have type coverage or status problems depending on which Curse set it runs.

Kabutops has been UU from the start of D/P. ._.
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it has thick fat and 262 spdef... that's pretty good imo :P

I was being sarcastic about Kabutops Maniac lol
 
Mystica said:
it has thick fat and 262 spdef... that's pretty good imo :P

I was being sarcastic about Kabutops Maniac lol
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Thick Fat would only be used for defensive sets, but that still remains valid.

As a rule, I dont like things that can both tank and attack proficiently at the same time, at least in UU. It's defensive stats edge out general physical walls like Sandslash, Blastoise, Drapion and maybe Leafeon (it has considerably better HP than it but worse Defense) and it has access to Curse which not only enhances its attack stat but lets it tank physically even better. It also gets access to Milk Drink, and it can gain almost complete coverage with Scrappy and Return/Hammer Arm. It even has great speed, and support options like Thunder Wave and Heal Bell.

I think it might be worthwhile to look at Crobat for movement down into UU. For starters, any physical set is almost completely walled by a defensive rock type/Steelix and co, and the only thing that gets decent coverage is its Nasty Plot set, which works off of a base 70 special attack and can't run Hypnosis. (Its also worth mentioning it can't run Hypnosis and Brave Bird at the same time either.) Things like the already rampant Clefable could potentially stop that too. Just puttin it out there. :P
 
Not sure about Crobat for UU. It's surprisingly bulky...a defensive set could actually be a pain to take out, not to mention it could put asleep anything that can threaten it. It can also attack from both sides of the spectrum, albeit both are walled by the appropriate wall. Meh, not sure overall

EDIT: If it's already been tested, then I agree it doesn't need a second test when there's others knocking on the door who've yet to be tested.
 
We already tested Crobat in UU at the beginning of the UU tier, and it was then moved up to BL for being a huge pain in UU. I don't know about doing another test on it, but I suppose that Steelix gives it a run for its money, even though Steelix can't do anything against the Taunt version, or it'll get put to sleep. I'm really just not sure we need to do a 2nd test on something when a lot of things haven't even gotten a 1st test yet.
 
Bologo
I'm really just not sure we need to do a 2nd test on something when a lot of things haven't even gotten a 1st test yet.
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I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there.

The nature of a number of the pokemon currently being considered for testing within UU, would suggest that concepts of "UU" have shifted quite significantly over the past few months ...

Therefore we really should be questionning and revaluating our decisions based on UU as it stands now, not how it was then.
 
Crobat would help take care of some of the new threats, while still not dominating over the tier. I think it is definitely something that deserves some testing. Also, what is the status on Azumarill? I recently fought one in a match against an opponent who swore it was UU.
 
Azumarill is BL all the way. High HP, Massive attack, Aqua Jet or Belly Drum sets, you get the picture.

Crobat would pretty much trump all the leads in UU at this point. It has Inner Focus to stop Persian, fast Hypnosis or it could run Specs or Band. It just seems a little too fast and versatile for UU, but I guess it could be retested...
 
rayfordjames
Also, what is the status on Azumarill? I recently fought one in a match against an opponent who swore it was UU.
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Me too ... although it was rather sad how quickly it was dispatched by Leafeon.
 
So I think we should go ahead and at least test out the pokemon with low opposition for move down such as Weezing ,Venusaur, and Shedinja.
 
I oppose Weezing moving down. It would overcentralize the game around special attackers, since Weezing can wall any physical attackers in UU with its stats(remember its only weak to Psychic.) Its recovery is a bit meh, but it can always Resttalk and Painsplit works too. I think it's a bad idea.

Venusaur is questionable. It would overshadow the current Grass types due to better stats/movepool, but it may not be too strong overall. I'd support testing.

Shedinja could move down I guess. No auto-weather helps it out a lot, but its offenses are mediocre and SR still kills it. I don't really see why it was banished to BL in the first place.
 
I agree with Cynthia, especially regarding Weezing. It will do to physical attackers in UU what Blissey did to special attackers in OU, except UU physical attackers have absolutely no shot at getting past it.
 
Syberia said:
I agree with Cynthia, especially regarding Weezing. It will do to physical attackers in UU what Blissey did to special attackers in OU, except UU physical attackers have absolutely no shot at getting past it.
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yeah, like Clefable does to special attackers in UU!

:D
 
Uh, Clefable has base 95HP and base 90 Sp.Def. Sure it can be a special wall, but nothing near like Blissey in OU.

EDIT: No time to go really give reasons, but personally I think Weezing is a little too good for UU
 
And it doesn't have the amazing physical resistances (and immunity) that Weezing has. Although, I can see the combination of Clefable/Weezing being almost as bad a Bliss/Skarm was in R/S/E. UU will become stall.
 
Syberia said:
I agree with Cynthia, especially regarding Weezing. It will do to physical attackers in UU what Blissey did to special attackers in OU, except UU physical attackers have absolutely no shot at getting past it.
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Just to be clear Weezing is not comparable to Skarm in Adv. It has a max of 334 HP and 372 Defence and although that may seem extremely high it really isn't when you see that a fair amount of Physical Attackers can actually get past it with a little effort without having to rely on some Special gimmick like how quite a few had to do in ADV when trying to take on Skarmory.

Pokemon like Kabutops, Armaldo, Absol, Kingler, Sharpedo and even the odd Scyther are actually capable of breaking through Weezings defense depending on their moveset. Choice Band on most of these actually can ensure 2HKOs on Weezing and most of them have access to boosting moves like Swords Dance.

What I think Weezing really brings to UU is a pokemon that is capable of handling some of the overbearing physical offense that is so present there.
Pokemon like Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and Primeape, Toxicroak simply have no counters or really reliable switchins in UU that can stand up to them and to me these pokemon are normally more troubling to deal with than pokemon like Ninetales who people complain about constantly.Weezing actually brings something that can stand up to these pokemon. (Toxicroak can still get past it with a Special set however =/ )
 
Pokemon like Hitmonlee [...] simply have no counters or really reliable switchins in UU that can stand up to them .
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Erm, Claydol ... ?

Pokemon like Kabutops, Armaldo, Absol, Kingler, Sharpedo and even the odd Scyther are actually capable of breaking through Weezings defense depending on their moveset.
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Although all the run the risk of being crippled by WoW, and in the case of the Water types taking a Thunderbolt or two.
 
Maniac is killing my beloved UU metagame with this Aerodactyl, Miltank and Weezing nonsense ~_~

It seems like what you are trying to do is remove the BL "tier," and perhaps balance this faux tier. However, wouldn't this be more prudent to do without the current system of UU and BL? Instead of working with this system, the best would be do to what Obi said in his PR thread.

What you're doing now is littering the UU metagame with various Pokemon you are deeming to be low BL, and we're just going to have endless circular debate if you continue.
 
Yes, Claydol is a good general counter to most fighting types. Also, in general terms of movesets, Nidoqueen can switch in on anything other than EQ and Rotom on EQ's or Fighting STAB moves. While powerful, they certainly aren't unstoppable forces that needs to have things move down from BL to counter them.

And Aldaron, moving specific Pokemon down and turning UU into the current BL serve entirely different purposes. UU testing is hindered by the lack of overall UU players and the lack of a UU ladder. We're trying to see if we can perfect the UU tier list one Pokemon at a time rather than just throwing everything in at once, and as far as I'm concerned, the changes made so far have been good ones. This thread helps get the general consensus among UU players about movements up or down.
 
Well then one issue is that this thread has not attracted the main UU players often enough, and no, simply having this exist is not reason enough to dictate that the changes made have been acceptable.

I don't agree at all, btw, that the changes made have been good ones. Leafeon in UU ? Steelix in UU (in terms of sheer centralization, though this admittedly was when Steelix was first introduced, and its effect has died down) ? The consideration of Weezing that destroys fighters sans special Toxicroak from being effective at all ?

I am seriously questioning the entire premise behind this thread.
 
Aldaron said:
The consideration of Weezing that destroys fighters sans special Toxicroak from being effective at all ?
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Did you ever consider that maybe they need something to keep them in check, since things like the Hitmons are on a huge amount of UU teams and are very hard to stop?

This thread has been in Stark for a huge amount of time. I don't really see why you've waited until now to question the premise behind the thread.
 
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