DP Torterra

Caelum

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Lately I've been playing around with paralysis teams and I was looking for something that couldn't be paralyzed by Thunder Wave, was bulky enough to set up SD's, and could hit reasonably hard (Speed doesn't matter on a paralysis team now does it?). With Garchomp out of the picture I managed to stumble upon Torterra and it worked out much better then I thought it would.

Right now this does sit in the "Other Options" section of the analysis (although the reasoning for why it is there doesn't make a lot of sense to me) and while I would agree it is "Other Options" on most teams, if you support this properly with paralysis it can be quite an effective sweeper so I do think it is a viable option on Torterra (plus, it's pretty cool to sweep teams with Torterra ~_~).

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/torterra

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Wood Hammer
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Torterra's primary use is as a defensive Pokemon and here it is using its defensive prowess to effectively make use of Sword Dance. While Torterra doesn't have the highest Attack stat, the high base power of its moves coupled with its ability to set up multiple Sword Dances makes it more than a worthy offensive Pokemon. Torterra's below average base 56 Speed does hinder the efficacy of this set, but this downfall can be easily rectified by placing Torterra on a paralysis based team or by Baton Passing Torterrra a few Agilities. Furthermore, Torterra's part Ground typing gives it immunity to Thunder Wave, so the situation of your opponent outrunning Torterra because both are paralyzed will often be a non-issue.</p>

<p>An Adamant nature and 120 Speed EVs give Torterra enough Speed to outrun 4 Speed EV Metagross as well as other slower threats to Torterra such as no Speed Vaporeon, Scizor, and Tyranitar. The remaining EVs were dedicated to maximizing Attack and then HP. An alternative spread that is useful is 120 HP / 188 Atk / 80 Def / 120 Spe. These EVs are designed to allow Torterra to survive an Adamant Life Orb Mamoswine's Ice Shard on average, since Ice Shard's priority will ignore any paralysis effects or any Speed boosts Torterra has received. If you choose to pass Speed to Torterra, it is recommended that you run a minimum of 132 Speed EVs to outrun base 115 Speed Pokemon after an Agility.</p>
 
Bad EVs.

Adamant 120 HP / 140 Atk / 80 Def / 120 Spe yields the same spread with 50 EVs remaining.

Capitalise the E in Edge in the movelist.
 
Lee said:
Bad EVs.

Adamant 120 HP / 140 Atk / 80 Def / 120 Spe yields the same spread with 50 EVs remaining.

Capitalise the E in Edge in the movelist.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the catch Lee. I realized I put up my first draft before I changed the EVs to your spread, I probably would have never realized if no one pointed it out so thanks. Fixed Stone Edge as well.

pit-fall said:
Nice set, however it is walled by Bronzong and Skarmory.
Click to expand...

True, but that's also true of many Pokemon.


I wanted some feedback on the idea of surviving on average an Adamant LO Mamoswine's Ice Shard. Is this even necessary? I personally like it, and that's the spread I run, but I've also run just max Attack, 120 Speed, and put the rest in HP. Should 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe be the primary EV spread and the one I have currently listed just be mentioned in the Set Comments. I've noticed the ability of each to sweep isn't really different so I'd like help making that judgement call.
 
You edited in Lee's spread, but forgot that there were 50 EVs left over with it, lol.

I would personally run a bit more speed...but if youre confident about that paralysis, dump the rest in Atk. The only reason to use this over Venusaur is its much higher Atk and Stone Edge, so you might as well take advantage of both.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
You edited in Lee's spread, but forgot that there were 50 EVs left over with it, lol.

lol. I'm addicted to Copy+Paste :(.

I would personally run a bit more speed...but if youre confident about that paralysis, dump the rest in Atk. The only reason to use this over Venusaur is its much higher Atk and Stone Edge, so you might as well take advantage of both.

I'm fine with running more Speed, have a particular bench mark in mind though?
Click to expand...
 
Caelum said:
I wanted some feedback on the idea of surviving on average an Adamant LO Mamoswine's Ice Shard. Is this even necessary? I personally like it, and that's the spread I run, but I've also run just max Attack, 120 Speed, and put the rest in HP. Should 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe be the primary EV spread and the one I have currently listed just be mentioned in the Set Comments. I've noticed the ability of each to sweep isn't really different so I'd like help making that judgement call.
Click to expand...
It'll be faster than you anyway as it can't be hit by Thunder Wave and will Ice Fang/Blizzard?
 
Anti said:
It'll be faster than you anyway as it can't be hit by Thunder Wave and will Ice Fang/Blizzard?
Click to expand...

Well, I usually paralyze Mamoswine with Body Slam Jirachi / Togekiss so that was my thought. However, you do bring up a good point. Basically if you don't use this with Body Slam Rachi or something the defensive splitting is largely pointless and I mine as well just max out Attack or throw the rest in HP ( as I mentioned previous, Adamant 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe). I'm thinking the current spread I listed may have been to specialized for my particular team and a more general spread like that one would be more appropriate for most users. I'll mention the other spread in Set Comments though about the Mamoswine bit. Seems good?
 
Perhaps a Subsalac varient of this can work? It will get some additional speed and an Overgrow boost if nothing else. And it is immune to Sandstorm.
 
RaikouLover, I'd imagine that a SubLiechi Rock Polish variant would be more appropriate, considering Torterra's decent Attack and mediocre speed.

Wood Hammer also isn't the best move to use in Overgrow conditions, and Seed Bomb's power is quite meh, so I don't know how well it would work out.
 
I've actually tried a Sub-Salac set and it's simply too slow even with +1 Speed to be useful. Substitute / Rock Polish Liechi might work but I haven't ever used it so I have no idea. Plus, that's an entirely different set anyway. I might test it out and post another topic if I like it though.
 
In the part about Mamoswine, you forgot that it can't be paralysed too, so the part about it ignoring para speed drop is unnecessary.
 
"highest Attack stat" - Capitalization.

"makes it a worthy offensive Pokemon." It should have been "more than", but if you remove it it sounds better anyway.

Also, you say about paralysis but what about passing Agility to it? Gorebyss would work well here, as it takes Torterra's two most common weakness', Fire & Ice, whilst you can often get the Baton Pass off safely because of Torterra's Electric immunity. (And if the opponent is also Electric-type using STAB, all the better). If you did so you would currently end up on 356 Speed, so if using Agility pass you would probably want 132 Speed EVs to outspeed Starmie / Raikou at 361 Speed etc.
 
yoshi! said:
In the part about Mamoswine, you forgot that it can't be paralysed too, so the part about it ignoring para speed drop is unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Serene Grace Body Slam a la Togekiss & Jirachi my friend.

Twash_Man said:
"highest Attack stat" - Capitalization.

"makes it a worthy offensive Pokemon." It should have been "more than", but if you remove it it sounds better anyway.

Also, you say about paralysis but what about passing Agility to it? Gorebyss would work well here, as it takes Torterra's two most common weakness', Fire & Ice, whilst you can often get the Baton Pass off safely because of Torterra's Electric immunity. (And if the opponent is also Electric-type using STAB, all the better). If you did so you would currently end up on 356 Speed, so if using Agility pass you would probably want 132 Speed EVs to outspeed Starmie / Raikou at 361 Speed etc.
Click to expand...

Well, that certainly would be useful now wouldn't it? Thanks Twash.
 
Would a kind moderator move this to the archive?, it is on site Oops, just realized it should be Swords Dance not Sword Dance. I always do that :(

Edit: nvm, BK caught it and fixed it.
 
We should probably wait a while, guys, before putting these on the site...

Such an obvious set for Yache Berry (standard Ice attack fare) / Occa Berry (beat Heatran / Infernape) and no mention of either berry?

Comon.

Also, since it is a sweeper set whose description emphasizes paralysis support so much, shouldn't Life Orb be at least mentioned as a potential item?

Let's not be so hasty next time.
 
Life Orb has been a horrible option with Wood Hammer recoil, in my experience at least I can throw it in if you want though, and Seed Bomb has always been really "meh" for me.

Typing resist berries are always an option, on anything really, but it's not really mentioned for everything that can use a type resist berry so I felt no reason to mention it with torterra.
 
Yache Berry should be mentioned because luring and paralyzing its Fire Pokemon counters is quite easy and done with simple first degree luring tactics. I don't buy for one second that you have been able to consistently paralyze Mamoswine with Jirachi Body Slams. There is also simply the case of you being unable to paralyze everything you want, and Yache Berry is an effective additional counter measure.

Sure, plenty of things can use berries, but sweeping sets like these (SD Garchomp, DD Salamence / Gyarados / Dragonite) can use them especially effectively.

Life Orb should be mentioned at least in the comments section because it allows Torterra to ohko bulkier versions of Gyarados / Salamence, and 2hko 338 HP / 330 Def Bronzong 100% of the time with Stealth Rock support, and 338 HP / 364 Def Bronzong 75% of the time with Stealth Rock support.
 
I rarely don't paralyze Mamoswine but that's not the point anyway. Your reasoning for including the berries are perfectly legitimate, it's just such an uncommon thing in the analysis so I wouldn't have considered it. It's done now anyway, I included comments about everything you mentioned. In the future, if something is on site and you want to make a change / addition whatever I think everyone trusts your judgement enough to just do it directly aldaron, especially when they are relatively minor changes like these.

I'll calc it myself later but I assume this 2HKO on Bronzong is with Heatproof variants and EQ? I can't imagine Wood Hammer does that.
 
Nope, the wood hammer is a 2hko with one swords dance (I forgot to mention that)

Like, you SD on the switch, and then you 2hko Zong who can't do anything besides take a 60% (now) chance with Hypnosis or Explode.

EDIT: my main point is that for sets like these (pretty much most offensive sets), where little additions can come in from various perspectives / strategies, we should probably wait a few days before throwing them on the site.
 
Aldaron said:
Nope, the wood hammer is a 2hko with one swords dance (I forgot to mention that)

Like, you SD on the switch, and then you 2hko Zong who can't do anything besides take a 60% (now) chance with Hypnosis or Explode.

EDIT: my main point is that for sets like these (pretty much most offensive sets), where little additions can come in from various perspectives / strategies, we should probably wait a few days before throwing them on the site.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I assumed you at least meant a Sword Dance. I'm actually pretty surprised that you have a 75% shot to 2HKO with SR max/max Bronzong. Anyway, thanks for the input Aldaron, useful as always.


Probably isn't the place to post this but it's relevant to your point about waiting anyway,

I've noted about leaving sets up for a bit longer then the 48 hour minimum. As a thought, for some sets it might be wise to leave them in the workshop for about a week after it is on-site to see if anything else comes up so it can be modified. People would just have to keep track, but that shouldn't be too hard. I'm thinking this is useful now since the news section is going to be updated every weekend (hopefully) with site changes from C&C, so someone that doesn't normally frequent this forum or missed a particular set in the forum might be drawn to its attention and find there way here and suggest something useful. Just a thought that maybe after something is on site, give it a week until it is posted in the news section to see if that lures in any new responses and then move it to the archive. Again, I can keep track of this and post if none of the mods want to be bothered.
 
Lee said:
RaikouLover, I'd imagine that a SubLiechi Rock Polish variant would be more appropriate, considering Torterra's decent Attack and mediocre speed.
Click to expand...

What Lee said. Note the effectiveness of stuff like Sub Empoleon and it's clear why this might work better. Or hell, Rock Polish + Swords Dance @ Yache or whatever.
 
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