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DPP Dragonite

Gay Dolphin said:
Actually I'm pretty sure the exact opposite conclusion was reached. If Dragonite can use an offensive DD set competitively, it deserves to be in the analysis, especially since it has options that Salamence doesnt (Superpower, Fire Punch, better defenses). The analysis is supposed to reflect competitive movesets, so just emphasize Dragonite's strengths and mention that Salamence is generally preferred to its higher base Speed. If what you said is true, then we would have already gotten rid of every set that is outclassed by something else (read: the entire NU and UU tiers)
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This makes sense. I believe presonal preference must also play a role in this part. If it's viable in the metagame then I would say...let that "outclassed" pokemon stay. If somebody fully knew that the DDmence outclassed DDNite (offensive) and he just loved Dnite and wanted to play Dnite over Mence still, wouldn't that be a good enough reason for it to stay in the metagame?
well anyways mixer's ev = i don't like :(
 
lordkira said:
This makes sense. I believe presonal preference must also play a role in this part. If it's viable in the metagame then I would say...let that "outclassed" pokemon stay. If somebody fully knew that the DDmence outclassed DDNite (offensive) and he just loved Dnite and wanted to play Dnite over Mence still, wouldn't that be a good enough reason for it to stay in the metagame?
well anyways mixer's ev = i don't like :(
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IMO, DDNite should stay, but somebody may want to consider an alternative, more defensive EV spread for use with a Yache Berry. Dragonite, with its superior defenses, can use a such a berry better than Salamence.

Also, Jolly should not be an option in the DDNite set. Raikoulover discussed this at length here.
 
I'd much rather go Bulky DD-Nite without LS (to have room for another attack such as EQ, Fire Blast or Fire Punch, and use dragon claw sintead of outrage since after two or more dd's it will be monstrous anyways) with LS supporter wall (Cresselia is monstrous) and just plain out destroy the other team after taking their walls out and preferably bulky waters as well
 
jrrrrrrr said:
Actually I'm pretty sure the exact opposite conclusion was reached.
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"While you were out" the opposite happened countless times. Caelum I believe removed DD Dragonite from the analysis later. In other debates, full outclassing has resulted in removal. I thought there was a consensus amng the SSers.

If Dragonite can use an offensive DD set competitively, it deserves to be in the analysis, especially since it has options that Salamence doesnt (Superpower, Fire Punch, better defenses).
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The only reason the set should be in the analysis is if the options it has that Salamence does not have give it a competitive edge.

The analysis is supposed to reflect competitive movesets, so just emphasize Dragonite's strengths and mention that Salamence is generally preferred to its higher base Speed.
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That's the thing. A (nearly) 100% outclassed moveset is not competitive at all. If the set emphasized Dragonite's strengths (literally limited to Special Defense if you go for a Jolly Nature) then it would have competitive merit, but there is absolutely no reason to use DD Dragonite unless it emphasizes the strengths.

If what you said is true, then we would have already gotten rid of every set that is outclassed by something else (read: the entire NU and UU tiers)
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That's a logical leap at best, completely ignoring that UU and NU sets are geared exclusively for their respective metagames. If Blaziken were BL and had a set that was a carbon copy of Infernape then it would be removed, under the precedent I've been working under at least.
 
I have nothing against removing it but you guys don't seem to be in agreement at the moment.

My opinion, is it should stay. Not because people are still using it but because Dragonite's higher defenses gives it more staying power when up against revenge killers such as CB Scizor, Choice Scarf Gengar, and Iron Head Jirachi (who can't flinch Dragonite to death like Salamence would be). It's not entirely outclassed at all, just not as good in most circumstances. (Kind of like that 'best sweeper' debate. Heracross isn't outclassed by Lucario as a sweeper, just not as good in most circumstances which is why SD Luke is used more than SD Hera). However, if your team is able to get rid of Skarmory and Bronzong but not Scizor and Scarf Gengar then you'd want Dragonite over Salamence. If your team easily counters Scizor and you got a Pursuit user too, then Salamence may be better. This is just an example, there's way more Pokemon to watch out for but you get the idea.
 
I also say even if it is underclassed if it is strong enough to stay in OU, I say let the set stay. However, I am not sure if DDNite is better than DDMence with those pokemons gone (as you say). Are you saying that to a certain degree Offensive DD-Nite is better than salamence? Are you saying that Offensive DDNite, without skarmory and bronzong on the opponent's team, is better than Offensive DDMence?
 
I have to say that this analysis was a breath of fresh air compared to some of the others that I have proofread lately. Relatively few grammatical mistakes (although you did leave out words a few times) and great content made this a cool read.

Good job, MetaNite!

(Uploading.)
 
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